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"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn |
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02...
"John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP how about a 8569b ? some guy has one on ebay now for about $3,000.00......i might pull the trigger on that one.....I would be using it for hf work. I was considering a 141t from tucker . it cost more but at least you know it works. i was going to get the 8552b and 8553b plugins with it. then you have to round up the connecting cables and manuals for them. comments? oh by the way i have read good things about the hp 8569b's. if they work. My guess is that the 8569b would be a very passable unit. Its specs seem competitive with an optioned-out Tek 492 in most respects, except that it only goes down to 10 MHz (perhaps there's an underrange capability that lets it see lower frequencies?) That might be a concern if you're going to be using it mostly for HF work. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. |
"gw" wrote in message m... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your SNIP wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. IIRC, the 180 mainframe was a different form-factor than the 141. The 180 stacked up a bit more like a big oscilloscope. Ed wb6wsn |
"gw" wrote in message m... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your SNIP wow! I just looked at the tucker catalogue and the 8562a's are going for $17,000.00. Looks like they don't want to give that one away either. Seems like if you want a nice analyzer for your home shop you had better go out and get yourself a home equity loan because you are going to need it... do you know anything about the hp 180t series mainframes with assorted plugins? They have some of those also. IIRC, the 180 mainframe was a different form-factor than the 141. The 180 stacked up a bit more like a big oscilloscope. Ed wb6wsn |
"gw" wrote in message om... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. A 140 series, with a round face CRT came out in the early 70's. The 141, with a rectangular face, hit around 1975. The 8566 was around 1991, IIRC. Unless you get extraordinarily lucky (and when does that ever happen), all but the 141 series is priced beyond the hobbyist. Maybe some of those 8562's or 859x's will be still working in 5 years or so when they hit the surplus market. Till then, hobbyists are still pretty much in the analog SA world. Ed wb6wsn I wouldn't buy an 8566B on eBay; I can't cross my fingers that hard. |
"gw" wrote in message om... "Ed Price" wrote in message news:tPmtb.4837$cX1.463@fed1read02... "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article , says... johnm wrote in message ... what is a good spectrum analyzer to have for a home shop in your opinion, and also what is a good scope to have and do you have to break the bank on this stuff? thanks. SNIP The 141Ts at Tucker seem like a pretty good deal. I believe they all come with new CRTs. I personally like to buy broken models on eBay and fix them up. It's cheaper, you get really familiar with the gear inside and out, and you always have spare parts on hand. But that strategy isn't for everybody. -- jm As I have HP-141's, an HP-8569, an 8566B and an 8562A, let me drop a few comments here. The 141's are the best deal for a hobbyist. You can acquire the slightly better 8552B IF section, and then get only the RF plug-in that suits your needs (an 8556, with it's built-in tracking generator, for a few Hz to 300 kHz, or an 8555, for 10 MHz through umpteen GHz, assuming you also get the external mixers). Unfortunately, by the time a hobbyist gets one of these, it has been abused and neglected by its last commercial owner. CRT burns are common, and the flood-gun analog memory may be very quirky. For an advanced hobbyist, either get an associated Polaroid scope camera, or build your own camera hood. You can capture a lot of transient things that way, and you can scan the pixs to input into your computer. Also, HP made a line of oscilloscope plug-ins that fit the 141 mainframe, so you can use the 141 as a multi-channel analog memory oscilloscope too. 141's are a pain in two ways; first, you have to externally store extra plug-ins, and secondly, the hard side handles make carrying one a painful experience beyond about 50 feet. Also, you tend to injure your fingertips sliding those bulky plug-ins in and out past the big metal front handles. The 141 may also be the last of the hobbyist repairable analyzers; newer analyzers use proprietary chips and are built too dense to let you get fingers and probes into them. The 8562A is old (1987) but a superb analyzer, 1 kHz to 18 GHz, all digital and synthesized. This will do everything you want, except drive a parallel or RS-232 printer directly. If you're smart enough to talk to it by IEEE-488, then you can do everything through the computer. Other 856x series units have lesser capabilities, but are still great analyzers, and just might be priced low enough for a very serious hobbyist. Also, the HP-859x series are very good, although some have odd frequency, memory and IO capabilities. All 856x & 859x series units are one-man portables, until your knuckles turn white and numb. The 8569 is, in my opinion, a transitional beast between the analog and digital worlds. It's not as stable and simple as the 8562A, although it's a leap above the 141. Since it's wide, it's also awkward to carry using it's handle. I'm not much of a fan of the 8569. The 8566B is HP's top-of-the-line analyzer. They threw down the benchmark for everyone else to try to meet. Mine is customized a bit, covering 20 Hz to 22 GHz, and with an external tracking pre-selector, optional detectors, programmable attenuators, RF path switching and low-noise pre-amps. My company has a number of somewhat more plain-vanilla 8566B's and 8566A's. There isn't anything I need to do that these units fall short of (uhh, with the help of some external IEEE-488 linked computers). OTOH, these are now obsolete, non-supported by Agilent, and need two guys to carry one. Mine is in a 60" tall dedicated rack. Typical used price is around $20k. Most companies will be better served with one of Agilent's newer EPA or SPA analyzers. Anritsu and Rohde & Schwartz are also making fine analyzers. IIRC, Leader makes an analyzer that a hobbyist may aspire to affording. I would say that a 141 is still the best hobbyist choice. A company needs to be sure that they get a usable item for their money, so buying on eBay is a gamble. A company should buy from some place like Tucker, where they get a warranty backed by a reputable source. Yeah, it initially costs more. But it's a lot safer than having to try to repair an analyzer when you need that analyzer to do the real work of your company. A hobbyist can afford to spend 50 to 100 hours to get something going; in a business environment, where the clock is always ticking, that's unacceptable. Ed wb6wsn didn't the 141t's come out in the late 60's? I believe I read somewhere that the hp 8566b came out in 1995 and cost around $75,000 new, and like you stated I have read that it is the best spectrum analyzer ever built. I see them for about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 starting on ebay but I would have some serious problems laying out that kind of money for a item on ebay. Thanks for the info. For all I know the 141t might serve my purposes just fine. I will look and see if tucker has one of those 8562a's though. A 140 series, with a round face CRT came out in the early 70's. The 141, with a rectangular face, hit around 1975. The 8566 was around 1991, IIRC. Unless you get extraordinarily lucky (and when does that ever happen), all but the 141 series is priced beyond the hobbyist. Maybe some of those 8562's or 859x's will be still working in 5 years or so when they hit the surplus market. Till then, hobbyists are still pretty much in the analog SA world. Ed wb6wsn I wouldn't buy an 8566B on eBay; I can't cross my fingers that hard. |
In article nqutb.6159$cX1.4086@fed1read02, Ed Price wrote:
A 140 series, with a round face CRT came out in the early 70's. The 141, with a rectangular face, hit around 1975. The 8566 was around 1991, IIRC. The 141 weighs a ton, but it's rock solid stable, it sells for reasonable money at hamfests, and it's not that hard to get repaired. Also, I think the Singer spectrum analyzers of that era are underrated and sell for very low sums considering how good they are. When I first used one, I was amazed at how birdie-free it was (although admittedly this was 30 years ago, and all of our standards for birdies are a bit higher). Unless you get extraordinarily lucky (and when does that ever happen), all but the 141 series is priced beyond the hobbyist. Maybe some of those 8562's or 859x's will be still working in 5 years or so when they hit the surplus market. Till then, hobbyists are still pretty much in the analog SA world. You know, I like the analogue SA gear. I like analogue scopes too. I see a lot of wideband hand-held receivers like the Icom R10, some of which have crude LCD panadaptor displays. Has anyone used any of these as cheap spectrum analyzers? If so, what is the one that will give me the best resolution possible? I don't much care about the front end sensitivity. I can live with some serious limitations in order to have something I can carry in my pocket. It would be very nice to have a spectrum analyzer I can carry up to the top of the tower with me to poke around at the head amps before taking the whole thing down. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
In article nqutb.6159$cX1.4086@fed1read02, Ed Price wrote:
A 140 series, with a round face CRT came out in the early 70's. The 141, with a rectangular face, hit around 1975. The 8566 was around 1991, IIRC. The 141 weighs a ton, but it's rock solid stable, it sells for reasonable money at hamfests, and it's not that hard to get repaired. Also, I think the Singer spectrum analyzers of that era are underrated and sell for very low sums considering how good they are. When I first used one, I was amazed at how birdie-free it was (although admittedly this was 30 years ago, and all of our standards for birdies are a bit higher). Unless you get extraordinarily lucky (and when does that ever happen), all but the 141 series is priced beyond the hobbyist. Maybe some of those 8562's or 859x's will be still working in 5 years or so when they hit the surplus market. Till then, hobbyists are still pretty much in the analog SA world. You know, I like the analogue SA gear. I like analogue scopes too. I see a lot of wideband hand-held receivers like the Icom R10, some of which have crude LCD panadaptor displays. Has anyone used any of these as cheap spectrum analyzers? If so, what is the one that will give me the best resolution possible? I don't much care about the front end sensitivity. I can live with some serious limitations in order to have something I can carry in my pocket. It would be very nice to have a spectrum analyzer I can carry up to the top of the tower with me to poke around at the head amps before taking the whole thing down. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
No, there is no person so named. Would you prefer that he had used the sort
of expletives that those symbols generally represent? Have you never seen profanity annotated that way (think: comic strip)? The 'Sanford & Son' reference was made by the service rep, apparently referring to the gall of the OP, for wasting the rep's valuable time asking for information about equipment that he (the rep) considered to be nothing but junk (you'll recall the TV series of that name was about a junk dealer). Does that wrap it up for you...or--OP--did I get that right? jak "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:58:52 -0600, "jakdedert" wrote: Looked like English to me. What part of it did you not understand? jak __________________________________________________ _______ 1. The part about calling regarding a 465 faceplate and the guy losing his wig before he got to speak about the 2232. Can you say "non sequitur"? 2. Is there a person named "$^% 465 !!"? This person apparently makes jokes about Sanford and Son. What does this have to do with ordering parts from Tektronix? 3. If you *can* make sense out of his post, I worry about you. :-) -- Bill, W6WRT |
No, there is no person so named. Would you prefer that he had used the sort
of expletives that those symbols generally represent? Have you never seen profanity annotated that way (think: comic strip)? The 'Sanford & Son' reference was made by the service rep, apparently referring to the gall of the OP, for wasting the rep's valuable time asking for information about equipment that he (the rep) considered to be nothing but junk (you'll recall the TV series of that name was about a junk dealer). Does that wrap it up for you...or--OP--did I get that right? jak "Bill Turner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:58:52 -0600, "jakdedert" wrote: Looked like English to me. What part of it did you not understand? jak __________________________________________________ _______ 1. The part about calling regarding a 465 faceplate and the guy losing his wig before he got to speak about the 2232. Can you say "non sequitur"? 2. Is there a person named "$^% 465 !!"? This person apparently makes jokes about Sanford and Son. What does this have to do with ordering parts from Tektronix? 3. If you *can* make sense out of his post, I worry about you. :-) -- Bill, W6WRT |
johnm wrote:
I heard someone on the test-equipment reflector (http://www.qth.net) was going to fabricate some replacement 8640B gears out of metal. You might check with that list to see if it ever happened. Dunno, but the guy at www.odometergears.com has been VERY happy to fabricate plastic instrument gears for me, for fairly little money. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
johnm wrote:
I heard someone on the test-equipment reflector (http://www.qth.net) was going to fabricate some replacement 8640B gears out of metal. You might check with that list to see if it ever happened. Dunno, but the guy at www.odometergears.com has been VERY happy to fabricate plastic instrument gears for me, for fairly little money. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Thanks to Ed for the good advice.
I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] |
Thanks to Ed for the good advice.
I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] |
Roy Lewallen wrote in message ...
Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? incidentally some guy tried to sell a stolen hp unit he lifted over at his job at nasa.......on ebay.....the final price was i think about $3,000.00....for a 35,000 dollar unit i thing they said on the news......he got arrested and the guy who bought it on ebay needless to say didn't get the deal he was trying to get.....which makes me wonder how many stolen items are listed on ebay and are sold there? |
Roy Lewallen wrote in message ...
Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? incidentally some guy tried to sell a stolen hp unit he lifted over at his job at nasa.......on ebay.....the final price was i think about $3,000.00....for a 35,000 dollar unit i thing they said on the news......he got arrested and the guy who bought it on ebay needless to say didn't get the deal he was trying to get.....which makes me wonder how many stolen items are listed on ebay and are sold there? |
"gw" wrote in message om... Roy Lewallen wrote in message ... Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn |
"gw" wrote in message om... Roy Lewallen wrote in message ... Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn |
Ed Price wrote:
Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn Imagine your cell phone if it was designed to be repaired, and used only common components. It would be the size of a briefcase. Do you think cell phones would be popular if they had to be briefcase sized? What about spectrum analyzers that needed to be contained in several 6 foot high rack cabinets? Is the world better or worse now that a 100MHz oscilloscope can be made the size of a paper back book? -Chuck, WA3UQV |
Ed Price wrote:
Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn Imagine your cell phone if it was designed to be repaired, and used only common components. It would be the size of a briefcase. Do you think cell phones would be popular if they had to be briefcase sized? What about spectrum analyzers that needed to be contained in several 6 foot high rack cabinets? Is the world better or worse now that a 100MHz oscilloscope can be made the size of a paper back book? -Chuck, WA3UQV |
Chuck Harris wrote:
Ed Price wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn Imagine your cell phone if it was designed to be repaired, and used only common components. It would be the size of a briefcase. Do you think cell phones would be popular if they had to be briefcase sized? What about spectrum analyzers that needed to be contained in several 6 foot high rack cabinets? Is the world better or worse now that a 100MHz oscilloscope can be made the size of a paper back book? -Chuck, WA3UQV Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Chuck Harris wrote:
Ed Price wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn Imagine your cell phone if it was designed to be repaired, and used only common components. It would be the size of a briefcase. Do you think cell phones would be popular if they had to be briefcase sized? What about spectrum analyzers that needed to be contained in several 6 foot high rack cabinets? Is the world better or worse now that a 100MHz oscilloscope can be made the size of a paper back book? -Chuck, WA3UQV Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:15:09 -0600, "jakdedert" wrote: No, there is no person so named. Would you prefer that he had used the sort of expletives that those symbols generally represent? Have you never seen profanity annotated that way (think: comic strip)? I've never seen "465" included in symbolic profanity before. Remove that and the rest becomes recognizable. Didn't notice that...finger must've slipped off the shift key. The 'Sanford & Son' reference was made by the service rep, apparently referring to the gall of the OP, for wasting the rep's valuable time asking for information about equipment that he (the rep) considered to be nothing but junk (you'll recall the TV series of that name was about a junk dealer). Pretty obscure, but makes sense now. Does that wrap it up for you...or--OP--did I get that right? Got it all, thanks. Plain 'ol English beats speaking in tongues though. Actually, this was kind of fun. Maybe we should all start posting with obscure references and irregular grammar. Not. Glad to be of service. Actually I think the obscure reference was actually a paraphrased quotation of the service rep, which the OP repeated...probably should have used quote marks there to clear it up. jak -- Bill, W6WRT |
"Bill Turner" wrote in message ... On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:15:09 -0600, "jakdedert" wrote: No, there is no person so named. Would you prefer that he had used the sort of expletives that those symbols generally represent? Have you never seen profanity annotated that way (think: comic strip)? I've never seen "465" included in symbolic profanity before. Remove that and the rest becomes recognizable. Didn't notice that...finger must've slipped off the shift key. The 'Sanford & Son' reference was made by the service rep, apparently referring to the gall of the OP, for wasting the rep's valuable time asking for information about equipment that he (the rep) considered to be nothing but junk (you'll recall the TV series of that name was about a junk dealer). Pretty obscure, but makes sense now. Does that wrap it up for you...or--OP--did I get that right? Got it all, thanks. Plain 'ol English beats speaking in tongues though. Actually, this was kind of fun. Maybe we should all start posting with obscure references and irregular grammar. Not. Glad to be of service. Actually I think the obscure reference was actually a paraphrased quotation of the service rep, which the OP repeated...probably should have used quote marks there to clear it up. jak -- Bill, W6WRT |
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. Most of the parts in a tek scope are off the shelf too, but like the cell phone, there are one or two show stoppers. For the cell phone, it is the microprocessor with its combination mask and flash programming. I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. It is even worse in the space field, where by the time a part is qualified, and a satellite is made, the part is stone cold obsolete. -Chuck |
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. Most of the parts in a tek scope are off the shelf too, but like the cell phone, there are one or two show stoppers. For the cell phone, it is the microprocessor with its combination mask and flash programming. I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. It is even worse in the space field, where by the time a part is qualified, and a satellite is made, the part is stone cold obsolete. -Chuck |
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:30:40 -0800, "Ed Price"
wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Can anyone recommend a decent commercial vector network analyser and spectrum analyser that one can repair oneself if necessary and hopefully keep them up and running for ever? -- "I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it." - Winston Churchill |
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:30:40 -0800, "Ed Price"
wrote: Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Can anyone recommend a decent commercial vector network analyser and spectrum analyser that one can repair oneself if necessary and hopefully keep them up and running for ever? -- "I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it." - Winston Churchill |
Chuck Harris wrote in message ...
Michael A. Terrell wrote: Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. Most of the parts in a tek scope are off the shelf too, but like the cell phone, there are one or two show stoppers. For the cell phone, it is the microprocessor with its combination mask and flash programming. I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. It is even worse in the space field, where by the time a part is qualified, and a satellite is made, the part is stone cold obsolete. -Chuck hmm, kind of like buying a computer ...in a few mounths it is obsolete...on the tektroix and hp stuff.......you would think that they would be feeling the heat from asia like everyone else.....just how much profit is there in a unit that sells new for $75,000.00? and why may i ask after 10 to 15 years it still sells for heavy cash.... |
Chuck Harris wrote in message ...
Michael A. Terrell wrote: Most of the chips in cell phones are off the shelf parts, and there are places that do repair cell phones. RMS Communications in Ocala, Florida rebuilds thousands of pagers and cell phones every week. I know several techs who worked there, and they were telling me about the equipment they had available at each work station. Most of the parts in a tek scope are off the shelf too, but like the cell phone, there are one or two show stoppers. For the cell phone, it is the microprocessor with its combination mask and flash programming. I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. One problem with new RF and test equipment is the firmware programmed into chips isn't readily available to program replacement parts. Another problem is the short production life for some parts. If you build a product for over two years, you either do "Lifetime purchases", or redesign boards to use the next round of parts. What is real fun is a base product with up to 100 different sets of software, depending on the customers specifications. Its hard enough to keep it straight on the factory floor, let alone trying to do it in the field. It is even worse in the space field, where by the time a part is qualified, and a satellite is made, the part is stone cold obsolete. -Chuck hmm, kind of like buying a computer ...in a few mounths it is obsolete...on the tektroix and hp stuff.......you would think that they would be feeling the heat from asia like everyone else.....just how much profit is there in a unit that sells new for $75,000.00? and why may i ask after 10 to 15 years it still sells for heavy cash.... |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:nO_tb.9428$cX1.8536@fed1read02...
"gw" wrote in message om... Roy Lewallen wrote in message ... Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn well ed what are your thoughts on a hp 8590? bueno o no bueno? |
"Ed Price" wrote in message news:nO_tb.9428$cX1.8536@fed1read02...
"gw" wrote in message om... Roy Lewallen wrote in message ... Thanks to Ed for the good advice. I've got an HP 140T. As far as I know, the only difference between it and the 141T is that the CRT in mine is a conventional one with long-persistence phosphor rather than a storage tube. It uses the same plug-in units as the 141T. I find it to be very usable, and don't really miss storage capability at all. I think the tube is a lot more trouble-free than a storage type unit. So I recommend that you don't turn down a 140T if you come across one -- and you might even have a better chance of getting a unit with a working display than with a 141T. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Ed Price wrote: [Lots of good advice] well it is amazing i think how some of these units retain their resale value even though the companies that made them do not service them or back them......man who was the brainiac that thought about how to implement this scam? Designing and building a product to provide many years of use, and then capable of being repaired without access to unique components and/or exotic service equipment, is a concept so rare as to be thought a scam. Ed wb6wsn well ed what are your thoughts on a hp 8590? bueno o no bueno? |
gw wrote:
hmm, kind of like buying a computer ...in a few mounths it is obsolete...on the tektroix and hp stuff.......you would think that they would be feeling the heat from asia like everyone else.....just how much profit is there in a unit that sells new for $75,000.00? and why may i ask after 10 to 15 years it still sells for heavy cash.... When you look at the price of a $75,000 unit, consider this: First, the test equipment market is really rather small, nothing like the consumer electronics market, and second, bleeding edge technology test equipment requires some serious money to develop. Tektronix and HP have historically been positioned right in the front of the technology wave. So, a unit that sells for $75,000 may have cost $20 million to develop to where it could be manufactured. It probably only has a market life of 1000 units. Then the actual manufacture of the product costs something. A good round figure is the ratio of parts cost to sale price is 3x to 4x. Labor figures in at about equal to parts cost. -20,000,000 to develop -25,000 x 1000 units = -25,000,000 parts cost -25,000 x 1000 units = -25,000,000 labor cost 75,000 x 1000 units = +75,000,000 sales price of instrument ------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom line +$5,000,000 Take that $5 million, and subtract some for advertising, and service, and you haven't got much left. Granted these numbers are just guesses, but I have been doing small quantity manufacture for a lot of years, and these kinds of ratios come up again and again. As to why the Tektronix and HP stuff commands a high price in the used market, the reason is simple, the gear is high quality, has very high capabilities, and the price of a new replacement is also high. -Chuck |
gw wrote:
hmm, kind of like buying a computer ...in a few mounths it is obsolete...on the tektroix and hp stuff.......you would think that they would be feeling the heat from asia like everyone else.....just how much profit is there in a unit that sells new for $75,000.00? and why may i ask after 10 to 15 years it still sells for heavy cash.... When you look at the price of a $75,000 unit, consider this: First, the test equipment market is really rather small, nothing like the consumer electronics market, and second, bleeding edge technology test equipment requires some serious money to develop. Tektronix and HP have historically been positioned right in the front of the technology wave. So, a unit that sells for $75,000 may have cost $20 million to develop to where it could be manufactured. It probably only has a market life of 1000 units. Then the actual manufacture of the product costs something. A good round figure is the ratio of parts cost to sale price is 3x to 4x. Labor figures in at about equal to parts cost. -20,000,000 to develop -25,000 x 1000 units = -25,000,000 parts cost -25,000 x 1000 units = -25,000,000 labor cost 75,000 x 1000 units = +75,000,000 sales price of instrument ------------------------------------------------------------- Bottom line +$5,000,000 Take that $5 million, and subtract some for advertising, and service, and you haven't got much left. Granted these numbers are just guesses, but I have been doing small quantity manufacture for a lot of years, and these kinds of ratios come up again and again. As to why the Tektronix and HP stuff commands a high price in the used market, the reason is simple, the gear is high quality, has very high capabilities, and the price of a new replacement is also high. -Chuck |
Chuck Harris wrote:
I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. -Chuck Believe what you want, but the place has around 100 employees, and was looking at buying the old L3-Com/Microdyne complex to expand into its 120,000+ square feet of buildings and acres of land for parking. They are bigger than Microdyne was when it closed the complex and moved to Pennsylvania. If there is no money in repairing pager and cell phones, why do they want to buy property which is priced at 1.6 million dollars? Here is the listing for the complex: http://www.foxfirerealty.com/showlis...tid=17779&id=2 -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Chuck Harris wrote:
I know a guy that repairs pagers, but you cannot convince me that it is a profitable business.... The way he moaned about the cost of my fixing his RF signal generator gives me a clue. -Chuck Believe what you want, but the place has around 100 employees, and was looking at buying the old L3-Com/Microdyne complex to expand into its 120,000+ square feet of buildings and acres of land for parking. They are bigger than Microdyne was when it closed the complex and moved to Pennsylvania. If there is no money in repairing pager and cell phones, why do they want to buy property which is priced at 1.6 million dollars? Here is the listing for the complex: http://www.foxfirerealty.com/showlis...tid=17779&id=2 -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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