On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:20:40 -0000, "Frank Dinger"
wrote:

Even if you used lead free solder, you would not be lead free. After
all, your component leads and your printed circuit boards use tin/lead
solder to insure solderability. Until all of the components are lead
free, you will be chasing smoke. this is especially true when repairing
old electronics.

If you use a non-lead solder with leaded components, you will most
likely creat brittle intermetallics which will greatly reduce the

A few years ago, I worked in a lab where we evaluated various solders
for our customers. Things may have changed since then, but believe me,
you don't want to do it yet.
====================================
Considering the above , I shall stock up with solder currently available eg
with lead.
Even when it is stated (in another message earlier in this thread) that only
'fresh' rosin core solder will give the best results.

Frank GM0CSZ /KN6WH located in EU

I would agree.

Just like with house painting, using oil-based over oil-based paint,
and latex over latex paint, you really don't want to mix.

Although the metallurgy of mixing different solders could be
fascinating, the performance might not be, especially in harsh
environments (temp cycles or physical roughness).

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

The Eternal Squire wrote:
This line of discussion is not useful.
Is it that "real hams" have to use leaded solder?

Easy there Mr Squire!

Come on! Isn't there anyone out there actually useing lead free solder in
thier circuits?

There probably aren't a whole lot. If you looked at the Kester Pages,
you can see that the other solders are at best a compromise. Lead isn't
used in solder because of some coonspiracy among Troglodyte hams, ist is
used because it works bery well. Most other solders either need a large
amount of heat, don't flow well, have poor wetting, or are brittle.


http://www.efunda.com/materials/solders/types.cfm

has a nice comparison between types

http://www.aimsolder.com/techarticle...ny%20Study.pdf

is a nice pdf regarding Antimony containig solder


Here is a page of links that has some interestinf info:

http://www.aimsolder.com/lead_free.cfm?section=articles

Especially the:

Materials and Process Considerations for Lead-Free Electronics Assembly


BOttoom line is that using tin lead solders is not particularly
dangerous from a user perspective, that it is a problem in landfills,
and that there are interesting considerations if you want to use other
types of solder.

Might as well learn all ya can!



- Mike -


Thanks,

The Eternal Squire
Mike Coslo wrote in message
t...

Mike Andrews wrote:


Al wrote:


In article ,
kenneth scharf wrote:


Like I said the word 'plumber' comes from the latin plumbum meaning
lead. Ancient Rome was the first to use lead pipes. Could be why
Nero was mad as a hatter.


I heard this. Their wine was being drunk from lead-lined flasks.


Well, no, not so far as I've found. But they _did_ use lead water
piping, and they _did_ use lead acetate ("sugar of lead") as a
condiment.

The first is bad only where the water's mildly acidic.

The _second_ is Just Plain Bad.


Here is a good link on lead compounds:


http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/hydro/pb.htm

- Mike -




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The Eternal Squire wrote:
This line of discussion is not useful.
Is it that "real hams" have to use leaded solder?

Easy there Mr Squire!

Come on! Isn't there anyone out there actually useing lead free solder in
thier circuits?

There probably aren't a whole lot. If you looked at the Kester Pages,
you can see that the other solders are at best a compromise. Lead isn't
used in solder because of some coonspiracy among Troglodyte hams, ist is
used because it works bery well. Most other solders either need a large
amount of heat, don't flow well, have poor wetting, or are brittle.


http://www.efunda.com/materials/solders/types.cfm

has a nice comparison between types

http://www.aimsolder.com/techarticle...ny%20Study.pdf

is a nice pdf regarding Antimony containig solder


Here is a page of links that has some interestinf info:

http://www.aimsolder.com/lead_free.cfm?section=articles

Especially the:

Materials and Process Considerations for Lead-Free Electronics Assembly


BOttoom line is that using tin lead solders is not particularly
dangerous from a user perspective, that it is a problem in landfills,
and that there are interesting considerations if you want to use other
types of solder.

Might as well learn all ya can!



- Mike -


Thanks,

The Eternal Squire
Mike Coslo wrote in message
t...

Mike Andrews wrote:


Al wrote:


In article ,
kenneth scharf wrote:


Like I said the word 'plumber' comes from the latin plumbum meaning
lead. Ancient Rome was the first to use lead pipes. Could be why
Nero was mad as a hatter.


I heard this. Their wine was being drunk from lead-lined flasks.


Well, no, not so far as I've found. But they _did_ use lead water
piping, and they _did_ use lead acetate ("sugar of lead") as a
condiment.

The first is bad only where the water's mildly acidic.

The _second_ is Just Plain Bad.


Here is a good link on lead compounds:


http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/hydro/pb.htm

- Mike -




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Roy Lewallen wrote:

The Eternal Squire wrote:

This line of discussion is not useful.

Is it that "real hams" have to use leaded solder?

Come on! Isn't there anyone out there actually useing lead free
solder in
thier circuits?


I strongly suspect that the answer is no.

So you have a chance to lead (with a long e) the charge. Please keep us
posted on how it works out.

I'm in no hurry to dump tin lead, but I'm curious why tin/antimony isn't
used more, unless it is because of the likelyhood of comeing into
contact with lead.

- Mike -

Roy Lewallen wrote:

The Eternal Squire wrote:

This line of discussion is not useful.

Is it that "real hams" have to use leaded solder?

Come on! Isn't there anyone out there actually useing lead free
solder in
thier circuits?


I strongly suspect that the answer is no.

So you have a chance to lead (with a long e) the charge. Please keep us
posted on how it works out.

I'm in no hurry to dump tin lead, but I'm curious why tin/antimony isn't
used more, unless it is because of the likelyhood of comeing into
contact with lead.

- Mike -

Frank Dinger wrote:


Considering the above , I shall stock up with solder currently available eg
with lead.
Even when it is stated (in another message earlier in this thread) that only
'fresh' rosin core solder will give the best results.

Just get some external rosin and you will be fine.

- Mike -

Frank Dinger wrote:


Considering the above , I shall stock up with solder currently available eg
with lead.
Even when it is stated (in another message earlier in this thread) that only
'fresh' rosin core solder will give the best results.

Just get some external rosin and you will be fine.

- Mike -

Mike,

I was in Pompei in 2000 and saw the lead pipes that were used to distribute
water throughout the town. They even had valves to turn the water on and
off, It looked like they made the pipe by rolling a sheet around a dowell
and then folding the lead to make a seal. They may have used other methods
also that I did not see. It was pretty interesting. We seldom give the
antients credit for what they did and think of things like indoor plumbing
is something new.

According to the guide, they knew that Lead was a problem back then (Pompei
was covered with ash from nearby Mt. Vesuvuis in 79 AD). They were in the
process of changing from lead to something else which I cannot remember.

73, Harry, W3IIT

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
t...
kenneth scharf wrote:

Jeff Spidle wrote:

hmmm, I have recently had the same discussion with my XYL, we have a 1 yr
old.

My self and another NASA trained ham, N9AEP, just completed teaching a
soldering class for our ham club, Schaumburg Amateur Radio Club.

The EU is going to require all soldering to be Pb free in 2004, I believe
that all US manufacturers will be required to do so in '06. I'm sure
I'll be
corrected on the dates.


The reason for banning lead solder isn't that it is dangerous to people
using it,
but rather that old electronic equipment ends up in landfill and so does
the lead.
Auto batteries require special disposal for this reason. The idea is to
ban the use
of lead in all products (where possible) to eliminate disposal problems.

But just how good IS lead free solder? I guess it DOES work well in
plumbing
where it has been in use for many years.

If lead is insoluble in water, then WHY isn't it used in plumbing? The
small
amount that it IS soluble is the danger. Guess the Romans went mad due
to their
use of lead pipes (that's where the word plumber comes from, the latin
for lead
is plumbum, and the atomic symbol for lead is Pb). Could be the lead
pipes were
the reason for the fall of the empire?


They were poisoning themselves with lead, but it wasn't from the
plumbing. The water that was carried to Rome from the aqueducts was
extremely hard, and a layer of calcium formed on the interior of the
pipes just about immediately after being put in use.

Where they got their lead was from storage containers for wine. They
used lead containers for this! I believe they credited the lead with
preservative powers. The acidic wine pulled a lot of lead out ot the
container and into the gullets of the drinkers.

- Mike -

Mike,

I was in Pompei in 2000 and saw the lead pipes that were used to distribute
water throughout the town. They even had valves to turn the water on and
off, It looked like they made the pipe by rolling a sheet around a dowell
and then folding the lead to make a seal. They may have used other methods
also that I did not see. It was pretty interesting. We seldom give the
antients credit for what they did and think of things like indoor plumbing
is something new.

According to the guide, they knew that Lead was a problem back then (Pompei
was covered with ash from nearby Mt. Vesuvuis in 79 AD). They were in the
process of changing from lead to something else which I cannot remember.

73, Harry, W3IIT

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
t...
kenneth scharf wrote:

Jeff Spidle wrote:

hmmm, I have recently had the same discussion with my XYL, we have a 1 yr
old.

My self and another NASA trained ham, N9AEP, just completed teaching a
soldering class for our ham club, Schaumburg Amateur Radio Club.

The EU is going to require all soldering to be Pb free in 2004, I believe
that all US manufacturers will be required to do so in '06. I'm sure
I'll be
corrected on the dates.


The reason for banning lead solder isn't that it is dangerous to people
using it,
but rather that old electronic equipment ends up in landfill and so does
the lead.
Auto batteries require special disposal for this reason. The idea is to
ban the use
of lead in all products (where possible) to eliminate disposal problems.

But just how good IS lead free solder? I guess it DOES work well in
plumbing
where it has been in use for many years.

If lead is insoluble in water, then WHY isn't it used in plumbing? The
small
amount that it IS soluble is the danger. Guess the Romans went mad due
to their
use of lead pipes (that's where the word plumber comes from, the latin
for lead
is plumbum, and the atomic symbol for lead is Pb). Could be the lead
pipes were
the reason for the fall of the empire?


They were poisoning themselves with lead, but it wasn't from the
plumbing. The water that was carried to Rome from the aqueducts was
extremely hard, and a layer of calcium formed on the interior of the
pipes just about immediately after being put in use.

Where they got their lead was from storage containers for wine. They
used lead containers for this! I believe they credited the lead with
preservative powers. The acidic wine pulled a lot of lead out ot the
container and into the gullets of the drinkers.

- Mike -

In my production engineering job I would routinely hold
my breath and stick my head in over the solder wave in the
wave solder machine. Large amounts of soldering fumes would
come up from that molten commercial-grade organic solder.
After pulling my head out, I'd exhale. One time I did this
maybe 20 times a day for a week in the pursuit of soldering
refinements.
Aggravated by poor sleep from a change in the work
routine, my health went down hill quickly. My ankles were
puffing up, possibly indicating the onset of liver disease.

I got the message. I stopped exposing myself to the
airborne lead and flux particles. It took several months
for the swelling of the ankles to go away.
Workers at the factory would set up muffin fans to suck
the hand-soldering fumes away from them. This is a good
idea. Otherwise, the fumes seek out the rising column of
air around one's body and are thus breathed in directly.
Also, most people lean over the work while soldering.
Doing soldering next to muffin fan and a cracked
down-wind window should readily resolve the problem for the
most cautious hobbyist solderer and family members.
Regarding someone's comment about putting solder in his
mouth: Remember the historians' speculations about the
contribution of lead wine vessels toward the fall of the
Roman empire. Also, I can taste regular spool solder. That
means I'm dissolving something from it.

Henry





Hello everyone,

My wife and I had been 'discussing' some of the effects of my hobby, such as
the possible exposure of my 2-month old baby girl to lead vapor from
soldering.
I typically have been using coventional 2% silver electronics solder wire
with
my 12 watt pencil. I do a few connections every day, but my wife wants to
take absolutely no chances, and on reflection, I don't really want to
either.

I'd like to know if here is anyone in the homebrew community who uses
lead-free solder for fine electronics work, what brands or compositions they
recommend, and where such can be obtained retail for a reasonable cost.

Oh, yes, and can someone lend me a yard of it until I can afford my own
large spool?

Thanks in advance,

The Eternal Squire




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