|
Were IC's ever etensively employed in AM/FM RX homebrew projects?
Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've
never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. |
The NE602 is a favorite with the Ham crowd. Plenty of projects found on the
web, including FM. Cheers "Richard" wrote in message ... Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. |
The NE602 is a favorite with the Ham crowd. Plenty of projects found on the
web, including FM. Cheers "Richard" wrote in message ... Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. |
"Martin Riddle" wrote in message nk.net... The NE602 is a favorite with the Ham crowd. Plenty of projects found on the web, including FM. Cheers Hi It could be that the ICs I'm searching under are not popular with homebrewers. Or, that articles are in printed publications, (like Practical Wireless etc) or folks just rely on application notes. ICs I've mentioned are ones typically found in your average AM/FM radio perhaps in the '90's. LA1177: Electronic Tuning-Use FM Front End for CarRadio, Home Stereos. LA1266: AM/FM Tuner Syatem of Electronic Tuning Type. LM7000: Direct PLL Frequency Synthesiser for Elexctronic Tuning. LA1235:FM IF Sysyem Applications. But, I think if anyone wants to mess with these ICs it's more economical to get some 90's radio, take it apart and rebuild it, with mods. That a way you get all the hard-to-get bits, like the display. So, these could be the reasons I've not found many articles incorporating the ICs I mentioned. "Richard" wrote in message ... Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. |
"Martin Riddle" wrote in message nk.net... The NE602 is a favorite with the Ham crowd. Plenty of projects found on the web, including FM. Cheers Hi It could be that the ICs I'm searching under are not popular with homebrewers. Or, that articles are in printed publications, (like Practical Wireless etc) or folks just rely on application notes. ICs I've mentioned are ones typically found in your average AM/FM radio perhaps in the '90's. LA1177: Electronic Tuning-Use FM Front End for CarRadio, Home Stereos. LA1266: AM/FM Tuner Syatem of Electronic Tuning Type. LM7000: Direct PLL Frequency Synthesiser for Elexctronic Tuning. LA1235:FM IF Sysyem Applications. But, I think if anyone wants to mess with these ICs it's more economical to get some 90's radio, take it apart and rebuild it, with mods. That a way you get all the hard-to-get bits, like the display. So, these could be the reasons I've not found many articles incorporating the ICs I mentioned. "Richard" wrote in message ... Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. |
In article , "Richard"
writes: Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. Yes, you CAN find the parts...those that survive after the 20 to 30 year period from their new introduction until now. The MC3362 is a one-chip FM receiver package available from Kits and Parts. Just add the dual IF filters and support passives, perhaps a power audio IC for more sound, maybe an RF stage for maximum sensitivity. Dieter has a datasheet available for download on it if you like. Problem is that few of those old ICs survive. They didn't sell well enough to support continued production. Hundreds of IC designs have met that fate, were successful, were produced, were sold. They just didn't sell enough. A few were sold off to other semi makers (Fairchild got all of the old National Semi digital line, for example...ON Semi got some of the old Motorola ICs). About three "independent" semi makers in the USA exist as second sources for old, obsolete semiconductors, including specialty ICs. The old RCA Sommerville works and their mighty CMOS line of both digital (CDxxxx) and analog (CAxxxx) got partially picked up by Harris when RCA was sold to GE, but then Harris sold off most of those to others, including Intersil and a few to Maxim (according to part numbers and description). What you, me, and many other hobbyists have to face is that the scene in semiconductor ICs is CHANGING. There exist (and have existed for at least a decade) "foundry" services to allow designs of complex ICs that may be the entirety of a new electronic project. Those won't even appear on the distributor market, just single purchase lot of 100,000 or so, made, installed, and in a successful product only to be succeeded by a changed, more competitive device. You CAN find out much with the right search words, including old part numbers. Unfortunately, many of those old parts have become "unobtainium" and exist only in archival datasheet records. A few remain: MC3362, a one-chip FM receiver; SA602 and SA612 Gilbert cell RF mixers; MC1350 low-VHF differential amplifier; several LMxxx audio devices from National; MC145151 parallel-load PLL all-in-one; CD4046 phase-freq detector for PLLs; 555 timers. The venerable 741 op-amp has long since been replaced by several general purpose op-amps still produced by several makers. Many CDxxxx CMOS digital devices are still available at very low prices (Jameco) and a few CAxxxx analog CMOS are still there. Outside of the Heathkits at the last decade of their existance, I doubt you will find much in the way of articles and "plans" for a homebuilt AM/FM receiver. When the already-manufactured article costs less than the collection of parts needed to build one, why bother? :-) If you want to build a special version for yourself, there's a heaping glob of appnotes and datasheets for available components on the web...but then you have to DESIGN something (true homebrew) instead of copying someone else's design. Len Anderson retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person |
In article , "Richard"
writes: Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. Yes, you CAN find the parts...those that survive after the 20 to 30 year period from their new introduction until now. The MC3362 is a one-chip FM receiver package available from Kits and Parts. Just add the dual IF filters and support passives, perhaps a power audio IC for more sound, maybe an RF stage for maximum sensitivity. Dieter has a datasheet available for download on it if you like. Problem is that few of those old ICs survive. They didn't sell well enough to support continued production. Hundreds of IC designs have met that fate, were successful, were produced, were sold. They just didn't sell enough. A few were sold off to other semi makers (Fairchild got all of the old National Semi digital line, for example...ON Semi got some of the old Motorola ICs). About three "independent" semi makers in the USA exist as second sources for old, obsolete semiconductors, including specialty ICs. The old RCA Sommerville works and their mighty CMOS line of both digital (CDxxxx) and analog (CAxxxx) got partially picked up by Harris when RCA was sold to GE, but then Harris sold off most of those to others, including Intersil and a few to Maxim (according to part numbers and description). What you, me, and many other hobbyists have to face is that the scene in semiconductor ICs is CHANGING. There exist (and have existed for at least a decade) "foundry" services to allow designs of complex ICs that may be the entirety of a new electronic project. Those won't even appear on the distributor market, just single purchase lot of 100,000 or so, made, installed, and in a successful product only to be succeeded by a changed, more competitive device. You CAN find out much with the right search words, including old part numbers. Unfortunately, many of those old parts have become "unobtainium" and exist only in archival datasheet records. A few remain: MC3362, a one-chip FM receiver; SA602 and SA612 Gilbert cell RF mixers; MC1350 low-VHF differential amplifier; several LMxxx audio devices from National; MC145151 parallel-load PLL all-in-one; CD4046 phase-freq detector for PLLs; 555 timers. The venerable 741 op-amp has long since been replaced by several general purpose op-amps still produced by several makers. Many CDxxxx CMOS digital devices are still available at very low prices (Jameco) and a few CAxxxx analog CMOS are still there. Outside of the Heathkits at the last decade of their existance, I doubt you will find much in the way of articles and "plans" for a homebuilt AM/FM receiver. When the already-manufactured article costs less than the collection of parts needed to build one, why bother? :-) If you want to build a special version for yourself, there's a heaping glob of appnotes and datasheets for available components on the web...but then you have to DESIGN something (true homebrew) instead of copying someone else's design. Len Anderson retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person |
I read in sci.electronics.design that Richard nearlynews_email@ntlworld
..com wrote (in ) about 'Were IC's ever etensively employed in AM/FM RX homebrew projects?', on Sun, 28 Dec 2003: Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. They are not so easy to obtain in small quantities. They were aimed at high-volume consumer product manufacturers. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! |
I read in sci.electronics.design that Richard nearlynews_email@ntlworld
..com wrote (in ) about 'Were IC's ever etensively employed in AM/FM RX homebrew projects?', on Sun, 28 Dec 2003: Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. They are not so easy to obtain in small quantities. They were aimed at high-volume consumer product manufacturers. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! |
"Richard" wrote in
: Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. In the early 1970s, the electronics rags were loaded with IC projects. The problem is that those ICs haven't been made since the early 1970s. A tube never changes. I can buy a 6BA6 and buld the same RF amp that was being built in the 1950s and 60s. I can substitute a 6AU6 and it will still work. I can use transistors and do the same thing. An IC has internal "wiring" that is specific to it alone. If you can't get that particular IC, you can't build the project. |
"Richard" wrote in
: Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. In the early 1970s, the electronics rags were loaded with IC projects. The problem is that those ICs haven't been made since the early 1970s. A tube never changes. I can buy a 6BA6 and buld the same RF amp that was being built in the 1950s and 60s. I can substitute a 6AU6 and it will still work. I can use transistors and do the same thing. An IC has internal "wiring" that is specific to it alone. If you can't get that particular IC, you can't build the project. |
The "Guru of Advanced Thinking About Advanced Radios" of Rockwell-Collins gave an interesting talk at the Cedar Rapids Central States Conference a few years ago. One point he made was that (even) Collins had to buy enough chips for their complete expected production run, and eventual spare parts, right at the design-in stage. Otherwise either - 1) The part would be unavailable before the production run was completed, or 2) A part with the same number would be available, but it would be enough different that it would either not work or would degrade performance. Even the Big Boys have parts problems. 73 de bob w3otc |
The "Guru of Advanced Thinking About Advanced Radios" of Rockwell-Collins gave an interesting talk at the Cedar Rapids Central States Conference a few years ago. One point he made was that (even) Collins had to buy enough chips for their complete expected production run, and eventual spare parts, right at the design-in stage. Otherwise either - 1) The part would be unavailable before the production run was completed, or 2) A part with the same number would be available, but it would be enough different that it would either not work or would degrade performance. Even the Big Boys have parts problems. 73 de bob w3otc |
John Woodgate ) writes:
They are not so easy to obtain in small quantities. They were aimed at high-volume consumer product manufacturers. And that leads to another reason why they aren't used. They are intended for very specific use, in something that will be built in large quantities with the same design. But what works for an AM/FM broadcast radio may not be best for some other use. I remember when RCA came out with the CA3088 AM receiver on an IC back in 1971. QST ran an article about it, hinting at big things, yet also pointint out deficiences. It was intended for a 455KHz IF, so you'd be stuck with image problems as you started using the IC in the shortwave range. I think there might have been limitations on the IF strip so you couldn't run it at a higher frequency. The mixer was a single transistor, and if I'm remembering, it was used as the local oscillator also. Maybe okay in a generic broadcast receiver, but not great for higher frequencies or where better performance was desired. The detector was built in, and of course, it was AM only. There was no easy way to bypass that detector, at a time when few hams would want to build an AM only receiver. In trying to fit a very specific application, it was lousy for more general use. Since then, there have been plenty of AM and AM/FM radios in an IC. Some have worked better than others for other uses (who can forget Ralph Burhan describing Loran C receivers using them?), mainly because they were less integrated, or at least had pinouts in the right places. Less grandiose ICs work better. The Motorola FM IF strips were at first just the IF strip, and since they were intended for narrow band FM, they were better suited for use in amateur applications. Even the later variants, that added the front end, had the advantage that the input and outputs were available off-IC so one could fiddle with things where needed. And then when you get to the point where an IC is simply taking care of one stage, such as a mixer, or an IF amplifier, there is infinitely more use of them in various designs. Of course, they are less useful to mass marketers, because they take up more space and give more performance than needed for AM/FM broadcast, so there is a limited market for them. Michael VE2BVW |
John Woodgate ) writes:
They are not so easy to obtain in small quantities. They were aimed at high-volume consumer product manufacturers. And that leads to another reason why they aren't used. They are intended for very specific use, in something that will be built in large quantities with the same design. But what works for an AM/FM broadcast radio may not be best for some other use. I remember when RCA came out with the CA3088 AM receiver on an IC back in 1971. QST ran an article about it, hinting at big things, yet also pointint out deficiences. It was intended for a 455KHz IF, so you'd be stuck with image problems as you started using the IC in the shortwave range. I think there might have been limitations on the IF strip so you couldn't run it at a higher frequency. The mixer was a single transistor, and if I'm remembering, it was used as the local oscillator also. Maybe okay in a generic broadcast receiver, but not great for higher frequencies or where better performance was desired. The detector was built in, and of course, it was AM only. There was no easy way to bypass that detector, at a time when few hams would want to build an AM only receiver. In trying to fit a very specific application, it was lousy for more general use. Since then, there have been plenty of AM and AM/FM radios in an IC. Some have worked better than others for other uses (who can forget Ralph Burhan describing Loran C receivers using them?), mainly because they were less integrated, or at least had pinouts in the right places. Less grandiose ICs work better. The Motorola FM IF strips were at first just the IF strip, and since they were intended for narrow band FM, they were better suited for use in amateur applications. Even the later variants, that added the front end, had the advantage that the input and outputs were available off-IC so one could fiddle with things where needed. And then when you get to the point where an IC is simply taking care of one stage, such as a mixer, or an IF amplifier, there is infinitely more use of them in various designs. Of course, they are less useful to mass marketers, because they take up more space and give more performance than needed for AM/FM broadcast, so there is a limited market for them. Michael VE2BVW |
On 28 Dec 2003 21:06:32 GMT, donutbandit wrote:
"Richard" wrote in : Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. In the early 1970s, the electronics rags were loaded with IC projects. The problem is that those ICs haven't been made since the early 1970s. A tube never changes. I can buy a 6BA6 and buld the same RF amp that was being built in the 1950s and 60s. I can substitute a 6AU6 and it will still work. I can use transistors and do the same thing. An IC has internal "wiring" that is specific to it alone. If you can't get that particular IC, you can't build the project. Realistically, now-a-days, IC's are mostly "systems-on-a-chip", and are usually custom-designed for a specific application; jelly-bean analog chips (except perhaps OpAmps and linear voltage regulators) are gradually fading from the scene. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
On 28 Dec 2003 21:06:32 GMT, donutbandit wrote:
"Richard" wrote in : Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. In the early 1970s, the electronics rags were loaded with IC projects. The problem is that those ICs haven't been made since the early 1970s. A tube never changes. I can buy a 6BA6 and buld the same RF amp that was being built in the 1950s and 60s. I can substitute a 6AU6 and it will still work. I can use transistors and do the same thing. An IC has internal "wiring" that is specific to it alone. If you can't get that particular IC, you can't build the project. Realistically, now-a-days, IC's are mostly "systems-on-a-chip", and are usually custom-designed for a specific application; jelly-bean analog chips (except perhaps OpAmps and linear voltage regulators) are gradually fading from the scene. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
"Richard" wrote in message ... Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. Okay, from what folks have said, I gather that as time has moved on, ICs relevant to construction of AM/FM radios have tended, more and more, not to appeal to homebrewers because their specs are seen as not being that good, and they have lost much of their flexibility/applicability - due to current design/production/marketing trends. |
"Richard" wrote in message ... Although I have been interested an amateur radio for about 30 years, I've never focused much attention on radios made with ICs. Lately I have got an interest in FM receivers, and have discovered some FM-related IC's/chipsets. ICs such as LA1177, LA1266, LM7000, (these three being a chipset), and LA1235 etc etc. But, doing a web search , you cannot find any homebrew AM/FM RX using these IC's. Why is this? I would have though they would be ideal for the hobbyist to mess around with. Okay, from what folks have said, I gather that as time has moved on, ICs relevant to construction of AM/FM radios have tended, more and more, not to appeal to homebrewers because their specs are seen as not being that good, and they have lost much of their flexibility/applicability - due to current design/production/marketing trends. |
The "Guru of Advanced Thinking About Advanced Radios" of Rockwell-Collins
gave an interesting talk .... One point he made was that (even) Collins had to buy enough chips for their complete expected production run, and eventual spare parts, right at the design-in stage. Otherwise either - 1) The part would be unavailable before the production run was completed, or 2) A part with the same number would be available, but it would be enough different that it would either not work or would degrade performance. How true, how true! I worked at Fairchild Semiconductor's Research and Development Lab from 1967-71, where we designed and built SYMBOL, a computer with a radically- different architecture (OS, compiler, editor, etc., were all in HARDware [and I do NOT mean ROM'd firmware; just lots and lots of gates and flip- flops]). When we began actual construction, we tried to stockpile -- from Fairchild Semi's production line -- enough of every IC type we thought we'd need, but we ran short by about 100 flipflops, so we got three more "tubes" from Production. It is safe to say that those hundred FF's caused us MORE TROUBLE than the other 4,000 FF's: after two years of production, those later FF's had so much FASTER "setup" time that our design rules failed when we put those FF's and earlier ones on the same printed circuit board! --Myron. -- Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge PhD EE (retired). "Barbershop" tenor. CDL(PTXS). W0PBV. (785) 539-4448 NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol) |
The "Guru of Advanced Thinking About Advanced Radios" of Rockwell-Collins
gave an interesting talk .... One point he made was that (even) Collins had to buy enough chips for their complete expected production run, and eventual spare parts, right at the design-in stage. Otherwise either - 1) The part would be unavailable before the production run was completed, or 2) A part with the same number would be available, but it would be enough different that it would either not work or would degrade performance. How true, how true! I worked at Fairchild Semiconductor's Research and Development Lab from 1967-71, where we designed and built SYMBOL, a computer with a radically- different architecture (OS, compiler, editor, etc., were all in HARDware [and I do NOT mean ROM'd firmware; just lots and lots of gates and flip- flops]). When we began actual construction, we tried to stockpile -- from Fairchild Semi's production line -- enough of every IC type we thought we'd need, but we ran short by about 100 flipflops, so we got three more "tubes" from Production. It is safe to say that those hundred FF's caused us MORE TROUBLE than the other 4,000 FF's: after two years of production, those later FF's had so much FASTER "setup" time that our design rules failed when we put those FF's and earlier ones on the same printed circuit board! --Myron. -- Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge PhD EE (retired). "Barbershop" tenor. CDL(PTXS). W0PBV. (785) 539-4448 NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor (Home Firearm Safety, Rifle, Pistol) |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:05 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com