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ARRL bamboozled by FCC -- BPL Lives, big money talks
the following article appeared in today's Wall Street Journal. Perhaps the
suits in Newington believed their own BS. Not a single mention of the interference issues and a whopping endorsement by the FCC's chief engineer. The Web's New Outlet Utilities Plan to Send Internet Service Over Electric Lines, Challenging Cable Modems and DSL By KEN BROWN Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL In an age when consumers can choose from 500 TV channels and nearly a dozen phone companies, most who want high-speed Internet access have at best two choices: the local phone company or their cable operator. Now, another choice may be emerging. Giving new meaning to the phrase "plug and play," a big Midwestern utility is joining with a start-up to offer high-speed Internet access over power lines. The service promises lower prices and more convenience: Consumers can tap into the Internet anywhere they have an electrical outlet in their house. The new service, announced Tuesday, comes from Cinergy Corp., a Cincinnati-based utility, and Current Communications, a private company controlled by the Berkman family, which made millions on wireless ventures and counts John Malone's Liberty Media Corp. as an investor. All told, the three are putting $70 million into the venture. The idea of using power lines to send Internet signals to homes has been around for years. It is based on the fact that electricity travels at a far lower frequency than the Internet signal, so the two generally don't interfere. But earlier efforts were disappointments, mostly due to the cost of the equipment needed and technical issues. Two years ago, a pivotal breakthrough occurred when the industry improved the speed and lowered the price of the modem that plugs into wall sockets to bring the Internet into the home, thanks to advances in semiconductor chips. The new modem is based on an industry standard called HomePlug, and costs about $30 wholesale. Cinergy will be handing out the modems to customers free of charge. "The modem being there is what drove us to launch this business," says William Berkman, co-founder of Current Communications. Another technical issue has been how to get the Internet signal through the transformers that step the power down from medium voltage, which runs along the street, to low voltage, which goes into homes. Current Communications says it has solved that problem with a "bridge" that skips the transformer, allowing the signal to go through uninterrupted. It won't say what the bridge costs. Top officials at the Federal Communications Commission support such power-line services because they could expand the availability of high-speed, or broadband, Internet access and give consumers more choice of providers, perhaps lowering prices. Last month the agency issued proposed rules for broadband over power lines. "Is the technology ready for prime time? The answer is yes," says Ed Thomas, the FCC's chief engineer. "The second part of the question is, is the business ready for prime time? The answer is you have to wait and see." The issue is whether customers will sign up for the service, either by stepping up from dial-up connections or switching from DSL or cable. On the positive side, the power line service is easy to use -- plug in the modem and run a wire to your computer and you're online. But there has been little switching by consumers so far from one broadband service to another, and the growth of broadband has been slowing. Matt Davis, an analyst with Yankee Group, a Boston-based technology consulting firm, says power-line broadband services lack key features of cable and DSL offerings, such as bundled packages of phone, TV and Internet access. He adds that more than 80% of American households can get high-speed access and that figure will rise to 90% in the next few years. "People continue to say that broadband is unavailable in a lot of places, but that's just not true," Mr. Davis says. Mr. Berkman says his group has already had discussions about bundling its services, and plans to offer Internet phone service and either video on demand or videogames by the third quarter of this year. He adds that in many places that theoretically can get high-speed access the quality is poor. Cinergy and Current, which tested their offering on 100 homes in the Cincinnati area, say they will target areas where broadband connections are spotty and hope to sign up 20% of homes they pass. GETTING CONNECTED Cable modems dominate high-speed Internet access, but some utility companies hope to break into the market by providing broadband connections over their power lines. Average Cost per Month U.S. Subscribers (in millions) Growth 2004 (estimate) Pros and Cons Cable $35-40 15.7 29% Fastest but most expensive DSL $30-35 6.6 41% Slower but cheaper, especially when bundled with phone services Power Lines $30-40 N.A. N.A. Fastest for the price, can connect anywhere there's a plug; service is unproven in wide use. Dial-Up $15-22 39.5 -9% Cheap, but slow and not always on. Sources: Morgan Stanley; Current Communications In addition, the partners say they believe they have some cost advantages over DSL service and cable modems, in part because they don't have to send a technician to a customer's house to start service. Instead, customers are simply given the modems, which look like big cellphone chargers. If customers want to work in another room, they plug the adapter into an outlet there. Wireless adapters that broadcast a Wi-Fi signal are also available. "Now it's up to us to prove the economics," Mr. Berkman says. This effort appears to be the largest rollout of such power communications to date. Cinergy will start with two neighborhoods in the Cincinnati area and hopes to offer the service to 60,000 of its 1.5 million electricity customers by the end of the year. The two companies have a second venture to bring high-speed Internet access to 24 million customers elsewhere served by smaller municipal and cooperatively owned power companies, often in rural areas where cable and DSL are not available. The executives say their service will beat high-speed cable and phone connections on price, convenience and speed. Current and Cinergy plan to sell their service for $29.95 to $39.95 a month, depending on the connection speed. Cable connections typically go for $35 to $40 a month, while DSL lines are $30 to $35, with discounts for bundled services. Most dial-up connections range from $15 to $22 a month. "We believe we are now the last-mile solution," says Bill Grealis, executive vice president of Cinergy and president of Cinergy Broadband Inc., speaking of the issue of getting high-speed lines to homes. "We are cheaper and faster than DSL or cable." Several other companies also are in trials of power-line Internet service involving dozens to hundreds of homes and hope to begin commercial service in the next year. The systems have an added benefit for utilities: They can alert them to power outages by monitoring the lines, and can read electric meters automatically and let the utilities manage the use of power during peak demand periods. These power-line services, if they take off, could be a boon to Internet service providers such as EarthLink Inc. and long-distance companies such as AT&T Corp., both of which are desperate to get direct connections into consumers' homes rather than relying on lines owned by local-phone or cable companies. AT&T demonstrated a voice-over-Internet phone service using power lines at an analysts meeting last week. This is the second effort by the Berkman family, which made millions as an early investor in cellphone systems, to provide an alternate broadband service. The family, led by Myles Berkman and two sons, William and David, started Teligent Inc., a once high-flying company that hoped to use high-speed wireless connections to provide broadband services to businesses. The family sold its stake in Teligent as part of a deal to sell its company, the Associated Group, to Mr. Malone's Liberty Media for $3 billion in 1999. Teligent collapsed two years later after it tried to expand too quickly. With that in mind, Mr. Berkman has focused on keeping costs low and will roll out the power-line service slowly. "Looking at the lessons we learned in the whole telecom boom and bust, we have to be conservative and drive the cash flow," he says of the investment. "We don't do this often, we do this every five or 10 years." Write to Ken Brown at 1 |
Mr. Berkman says his group has already had discussions about bundling its
services, and plans to offer Internet phone service and either video on demand or videogames by the third quarter of this year. He adds that in many places that theoretically can get high-speed access the quality is poor. Cinergy and Current, which tested their offering on 100 homes in the Cincinnati area, say they will target areas where broadband connections are spotty and hope to sign up 20% of homes they pass. ============================== Wonder if there are any radio amateurs (hams) in the Cincinetti area where the system was 'tested' And if so ,whether they have reported any interference resulting from BPL. I am sure ARRL will be happy to hear from them. Let's wait and see. Here in the UK ,it has gone quiet re PLT = Power Line Transmission (BPL). In rural areas where telephone exhanges have not as yet been prepared for ADSL ,people can register their interest in ADSL on the Web. As soon as a trigger level ,set by British Telecom, has been reached , broadband facilities will be installed. In my telephone area (covering a maximum of 1000 phone connections) the trigger level is 150 ,whereas to date only 51 have registered...................So I might enjoy broadband comms during 'after life' ;)). However the 'absence of PLT ' (a blessing) will most definitely make me stick with ham radio. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Mr. Berkman says his group has already had discussions about bundling its
services, and plans to offer Internet phone service and either video on demand or videogames by the third quarter of this year. He adds that in many places that theoretically can get high-speed access the quality is poor. Cinergy and Current, which tested their offering on 100 homes in the Cincinnati area, say they will target areas where broadband connections are spotty and hope to sign up 20% of homes they pass. ============================== Wonder if there are any radio amateurs (hams) in the Cincinetti area where the system was 'tested' And if so ,whether they have reported any interference resulting from BPL. I am sure ARRL will be happy to hear from them. Let's wait and see. Here in the UK ,it has gone quiet re PLT = Power Line Transmission (BPL). In rural areas where telephone exhanges have not as yet been prepared for ADSL ,people can register their interest in ADSL on the Web. As soon as a trigger level ,set by British Telecom, has been reached , broadband facilities will be installed. In my telephone area (covering a maximum of 1000 phone connections) the trigger level is 150 ,whereas to date only 51 have registered...................So I might enjoy broadband comms during 'after life' ;)). However the 'absence of PLT ' (a blessing) will most definitely make me stick with ham radio. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Perhaps the
suits in Newington believed their own BS. Not a single mention of the interference issues and a whopping endorsement by the FCC's chief engineer. I truly hope no one really believed the "CBRRL" had any chance in Hell of winning, or even to be takeb serious |
Perhaps the
suits in Newington believed their own BS. Not a single mention of the interference issues and a whopping endorsement by the FCC's chief engineer. I truly hope no one really believed the "CBRRL" had any chance in Hell of winning, or even to be takeb serious |
WA8ULX wrote:
Perhaps the suits in Newington believed their own BS. Not a single mention of the interference issues and a whopping endorsement by the FCC's chief engineer. I truly hope no one really believed the "CBRRL" had any chance in Hell of winning, or even to be takeb serious Of course not...they don't contribute enough money to Bush et. al. and they don't have any lucrative jobs to offer ex-FCC Commissioners... The technical details are immaterial, only the money matters... |
WA8ULX wrote:
Perhaps the suits in Newington believed their own BS. Not a single mention of the interference issues and a whopping endorsement by the FCC's chief engineer. I truly hope no one really believed the "CBRRL" had any chance in Hell of winning, or even to be takeb serious Of course not...they don't contribute enough money to Bush et. al. and they don't have any lucrative jobs to offer ex-FCC Commissioners... The technical details are immaterial, only the money matters... |
Frank Dinger wrote:
Mr. Berkman says his group has already had discussions about bundling its services, and plans to offer Internet phone service and either video on demand or videogames by the third quarter of this year. He adds that in many places that theoretically can get high-speed access the quality is poor. Cinergy and Current, which tested their offering on 100 homes in the Cincinnati area, say they will target areas where broadband connections are spotty and hope to sign up 20% of homes they pass. ============================== Wonder if there are any radio amateurs (hams) in the Cincinetti area where the system was 'tested' And if so ,whether they have reported any interference resulting from BPL. I am sure ARRL will be happy to hear from them. Let's wait and see. Here in the UK ,it has gone quiet re PLT = Power Line Transmission (BPL). In rural areas where telephone exhanges have not as yet been prepared for ADSL ,people can register their interest in ADSL on the Web. As soon as a trigger level ,set by British Telecom, has been reached , broadband facilities will be installed. In my telephone area (covering a maximum of 1000 phone connections) the trigger level is 150 ,whereas to date only 51 have registered...................So I might enjoy broadband comms during 'after life' ;)). However the 'absence of PLT ' (a blessing) will most definitely make me stick with ham radio. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! When the customers demand their money back maybe the power companies will call the experiment a failure. |
Frank Dinger wrote:
Mr. Berkman says his group has already had discussions about bundling its services, and plans to offer Internet phone service and either video on demand or videogames by the third quarter of this year. He adds that in many places that theoretically can get high-speed access the quality is poor. Cinergy and Current, which tested their offering on 100 homes in the Cincinnati area, say they will target areas where broadband connections are spotty and hope to sign up 20% of homes they pass. ============================== Wonder if there are any radio amateurs (hams) in the Cincinetti area where the system was 'tested' And if so ,whether they have reported any interference resulting from BPL. I am sure ARRL will be happy to hear from them. Let's wait and see. Here in the UK ,it has gone quiet re PLT = Power Line Transmission (BPL). In rural areas where telephone exhanges have not as yet been prepared for ADSL ,people can register their interest in ADSL on the Web. As soon as a trigger level ,set by British Telecom, has been reached , broadband facilities will be installed. In my telephone area (covering a maximum of 1000 phone connections) the trigger level is 150 ,whereas to date only 51 have registered...................So I might enjoy broadband comms during 'after life' ;)). However the 'absence of PLT ' (a blessing) will most definitely make me stick with ham radio. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! When the customers demand their money back maybe the power companies will call the experiment a failure. |
OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full
of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! Yeah, but... Remember, this is a country where the majority rules, and laws can be changed. Hams are a minority. This is a very serious issue, and could spell the end of our hobby. I sincerely hope not. 73, John - K6QQ |
OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full
of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! Yeah, but... Remember, this is a country where the majority rules, and laws can be changed. Hams are a minority. This is a very serious issue, and could spell the end of our hobby. I sincerely hope not. 73, John - K6QQ |
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OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! When the customers demand their money back maybe the power companies will call the experiment a failure. My reaction (below) to the "QRM solution" (quoted above) was previously posted on QRZ.net. This is not a suggested course of action. The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. The judge will likely issue a "cease and desist" order. If you ignore it, and fire up your rig anew, the LOCAL sherriff will be ordered to take possesion of your equipment and probably take down your antennas (at your expence), as well. You can appeal these actions ... and you will very likely win your case on appeal. But, only after two or more years of gut wrenching legalistics and an expenditure reaching the $100,000 range ... probably several hunderd thousand dollars. Each and every ham like you, will likely have to fight this same battle, over, and over again ... for himself, by himself, in each and every jurisdiction. The ARRL doesn't have the money or staff to help you. If you think its not possible, ask the guys from New York, who were prosecuted under the "scanner laws", if their rigs have been returned to them, yet. They won their cases. You're going to get BPL, in one form or another. The reasons have nothing to do with an advance in technology. They have everything to do with MONEY and POLITICS. You're going to get BPL. And, quite frankly, you deserve it. The FCC, The US Congress, The US Court systems ... are the very best that MONEY can buy. The Commissioners of the FCC are NOT technologists .... they are bookkeepres, accountants, would-be/failed politicians (or, their sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters), and lobbyists. They are NOT your "friends-in-high-places". They've been bought and paid for. They "take the king's coin, and do his bidding". Why? You, Amateur Radio as a group, are mostly old, mostly fat, selfish, lazy ....and, you don't VOTE regularly and knowledgeably. When you do vote, it is on issues having little to do with your own self interest, your community, or your hobby. At present, the FCC records some 900,000 licences for the Amateur service. Of these, at least 15% are dead people. That leaves about 800,000 "living" hams. Of those, less than 20 % vote regularly. So, you have a total influence with the US Congress of aproximately 160,000 votes .... scattered across 450 odd districts. Not much for political "Clout". You are selfish. Your promote your hobby as an exclusionary fraternity. You are NOT, at this date, an inclusive, accepting, welcoming union of like minded and interested individuals. Rather, you link your hobby to additional exclusionary protocols ... religious belief (I throw "morse" and Christianity in the same pot), sexual orientation (or just gender), language, race, and social origin. If you doubt me, you haven't been listening to much of the chatter on 20 and 75 meter SSB. On my local 2 meter repeater, there are "extras" who won't even chat with a "no-code tech" or "queer CB'er". Heaven help you if they hear you practicing your Spanish with someone from Cuba. What the hobby needs to force a repeal/reconsideration of BPL is an infussion of about 10 million kids each of whom has 2 parents and 4 grand-parents ... all of voting age. 60 million votes ... thats CLOUT! But, given the history of such things as 'Incentive Licensing", the "Save Eleven" fiasco, and the religious "Rite of Morse", there is little chance of seeing any such infusion before the entire hobby is history. You are going to get BPL! In short, don't invest in a new Icom rig, or that fantastiic Orion. Instead, buy fishing gear ... find a new hobby, 'cuz this one is all but dead. Harv Nelson, AI9NL Washburn, WI |
OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! When the customers demand their money back maybe the power companies will call the experiment a failure. My reaction (below) to the "QRM solution" (quoted above) was previously posted on QRZ.net. This is not a suggested course of action. The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. The judge will likely issue a "cease and desist" order. If you ignore it, and fire up your rig anew, the LOCAL sherriff will be ordered to take possesion of your equipment and probably take down your antennas (at your expence), as well. You can appeal these actions ... and you will very likely win your case on appeal. But, only after two or more years of gut wrenching legalistics and an expenditure reaching the $100,000 range ... probably several hunderd thousand dollars. Each and every ham like you, will likely have to fight this same battle, over, and over again ... for himself, by himself, in each and every jurisdiction. The ARRL doesn't have the money or staff to help you. If you think its not possible, ask the guys from New York, who were prosecuted under the "scanner laws", if their rigs have been returned to them, yet. They won their cases. You're going to get BPL, in one form or another. The reasons have nothing to do with an advance in technology. They have everything to do with MONEY and POLITICS. You're going to get BPL. And, quite frankly, you deserve it. The FCC, The US Congress, The US Court systems ... are the very best that MONEY can buy. The Commissioners of the FCC are NOT technologists .... they are bookkeepres, accountants, would-be/failed politicians (or, their sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters), and lobbyists. They are NOT your "friends-in-high-places". They've been bought and paid for. They "take the king's coin, and do his bidding". Why? You, Amateur Radio as a group, are mostly old, mostly fat, selfish, lazy ....and, you don't VOTE regularly and knowledgeably. When you do vote, it is on issues having little to do with your own self interest, your community, or your hobby. At present, the FCC records some 900,000 licences for the Amateur service. Of these, at least 15% are dead people. That leaves about 800,000 "living" hams. Of those, less than 20 % vote regularly. So, you have a total influence with the US Congress of aproximately 160,000 votes .... scattered across 450 odd districts. Not much for political "Clout". You are selfish. Your promote your hobby as an exclusionary fraternity. You are NOT, at this date, an inclusive, accepting, welcoming union of like minded and interested individuals. Rather, you link your hobby to additional exclusionary protocols ... religious belief (I throw "morse" and Christianity in the same pot), sexual orientation (or just gender), language, race, and social origin. If you doubt me, you haven't been listening to much of the chatter on 20 and 75 meter SSB. On my local 2 meter repeater, there are "extras" who won't even chat with a "no-code tech" or "queer CB'er". Heaven help you if they hear you practicing your Spanish with someone from Cuba. What the hobby needs to force a repeal/reconsideration of BPL is an infussion of about 10 million kids each of whom has 2 parents and 4 grand-parents ... all of voting age. 60 million votes ... thats CLOUT! But, given the history of such things as 'Incentive Licensing", the "Save Eleven" fiasco, and the religious "Rite of Morse", there is little chance of seeing any such infusion before the entire hobby is history. You are going to get BPL! In short, don't invest in a new Icom rig, or that fantastiic Orion. Instead, buy fishing gear ... find a new hobby, 'cuz this one is all but dead. Harv Nelson, AI9NL Washburn, WI |
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:16:59 -0600, Harv nelson stood up and said:
The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a ?Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. The judge will likely issue a "cease and desist" order. If you ignore it, and fire up your rig anew, the LOCAL sherriff will be ordered to take possesion of your equipment and probably take down your antennas (at your expence), as well. You can appeal these actions ... and you will very likely win your case on appeal. But, only after two or more years of gut wrenching legalistics and an expenditure reaching the $100,000 range ... probably several hunderd thousand dollars. Each and every ham like you, will likely have to fight this same battle, over, and over again ... for himself, by himself, in each and every jurisdiction. The ARRL doesn't have the money or staff to help you. If you think its not possible, ask the guys from New York, who were prosecuted under the "scanner laws", if their rigs have been returned to them, yet. They won their cases. You're going to get BPL, in one form or another. The reasons have nothing to do with an advance in technology. They have everything to do with MONEY and POLITICS. You're going to get BPL. And, quite frankly, you deserve it. The FCC, The US Congress, The US Court systems ... are the very best that MONEY can buy. The Commissioners of the FCC are NOT technologists ... they are bookkeepres, accountants, would-be/failed politicians (or, their sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters), and lobbyists. They are NOT your "friends-in-high-places". They've been bought and paid for. They "take the king's coin, and do his bidding". Why? You, Amateur Radio as a group, are mostly old, mostly fat, selfish, lazy ....and, you don't VOTE regularly and knowledgeably. When you do vote, it is on issues having little to do with your own self interest, your community, or your hobby. At present, the FCC records some 900,000 licences for the Amateur service. Of these, at least 15% are dead people. That leaves about 800,000 "living" hams. Of those, less than 20 % vote regularly. So, you have a total influence with the US Congress of aproximately 160,000 votes .... scattered across 450 odd districts. Not much for political "Clout". You are selfish. Your promote your hobby as an exclusionary fraternity. You are NOT, at this date, an inclusive, accepting, welcoming union of like minded and interested individuals. Rather, you link your hobby to additional exclusionary protocols ... religious belief (I throw "morse" and Christianity in the same pot), sexual orientation (or just gender), language, race, and social origin. If you doubt me, you haven't been listening to much of the chatter on 20 and 75 meter SSB. On my local 2 meter repeater, there are "extras" who won't even chat with a "no-code tech" or "queer CB'er". Heaven help you if they hear you practicing your Spanish with someone from Cuba. What the hobby needs to force a repeal/reconsideration of BPL is an infussion of about 10 million kids each of whom has 2 parents and 4 grand-parents ... all of voting age. 60 million votes ... thats CLOUT! But, given the history of such things as 'Incentive Licensing", the "Save Eleven" fiasco, and the religious "Rite of Morse", there is little chance of seeing any such infusion before the entire hobby is history. You are going to get BPL! In short, don't invest in a new Icom rig, or that fantastiic Orion. Instead, buy fishing gear ... find a new hobby, 'cuz this one is all but dead. Harv Nelson, AI9NL Washburn, WI Hammer, meet the head of nail. Nice job. |
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:16:59 -0600, Harv nelson stood up and said:
The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a ?Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. The judge will likely issue a "cease and desist" order. If you ignore it, and fire up your rig anew, the LOCAL sherriff will be ordered to take possesion of your equipment and probably take down your antennas (at your expence), as well. You can appeal these actions ... and you will very likely win your case on appeal. But, only after two or more years of gut wrenching legalistics and an expenditure reaching the $100,000 range ... probably several hunderd thousand dollars. Each and every ham like you, will likely have to fight this same battle, over, and over again ... for himself, by himself, in each and every jurisdiction. The ARRL doesn't have the money or staff to help you. If you think its not possible, ask the guys from New York, who were prosecuted under the "scanner laws", if their rigs have been returned to them, yet. They won their cases. You're going to get BPL, in one form or another. The reasons have nothing to do with an advance in technology. They have everything to do with MONEY and POLITICS. You're going to get BPL. And, quite frankly, you deserve it. The FCC, The US Congress, The US Court systems ... are the very best that MONEY can buy. The Commissioners of the FCC are NOT technologists ... they are bookkeepres, accountants, would-be/failed politicians (or, their sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters), and lobbyists. They are NOT your "friends-in-high-places". They've been bought and paid for. They "take the king's coin, and do his bidding". Why? You, Amateur Radio as a group, are mostly old, mostly fat, selfish, lazy ....and, you don't VOTE regularly and knowledgeably. When you do vote, it is on issues having little to do with your own self interest, your community, or your hobby. At present, the FCC records some 900,000 licences for the Amateur service. Of these, at least 15% are dead people. That leaves about 800,000 "living" hams. Of those, less than 20 % vote regularly. So, you have a total influence with the US Congress of aproximately 160,000 votes .... scattered across 450 odd districts. Not much for political "Clout". You are selfish. Your promote your hobby as an exclusionary fraternity. You are NOT, at this date, an inclusive, accepting, welcoming union of like minded and interested individuals. Rather, you link your hobby to additional exclusionary protocols ... religious belief (I throw "morse" and Christianity in the same pot), sexual orientation (or just gender), language, race, and social origin. If you doubt me, you haven't been listening to much of the chatter on 20 and 75 meter SSB. On my local 2 meter repeater, there are "extras" who won't even chat with a "no-code tech" or "queer CB'er". Heaven help you if they hear you practicing your Spanish with someone from Cuba. What the hobby needs to force a repeal/reconsideration of BPL is an infussion of about 10 million kids each of whom has 2 parents and 4 grand-parents ... all of voting age. 60 million votes ... thats CLOUT! But, given the history of such things as 'Incentive Licensing", the "Save Eleven" fiasco, and the religious "Rite of Morse", there is little chance of seeing any such infusion before the entire hobby is history. You are going to get BPL! In short, don't invest in a new Icom rig, or that fantastiic Orion. Instead, buy fishing gear ... find a new hobby, 'cuz this one is all but dead. Harv Nelson, AI9NL Washburn, WI Hammer, meet the head of nail. Nice job. |
Harv nelson wrote:
OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! When the customers demand their money back maybe the power companies will call the experiment a failure. My reaction (below) to the "QRM solution" (quoted above) was previously posted on QRZ.net. This is not a suggested course of action. The FCC regulations do require us to use the minimum amount of power to get the job done. Is trying to overcome QRN a good reason to switch to high power? I think the FCC regs would support that. I'm sure that if we just operate as we normally do, perhaps switch to high power if necessary (but still remain within the law as far as all requirements apply) we are not anymore a Public Nuisance than we ever were. It's like the guy who moved next door to an airport and then complains about the noise. He KNEW the airport was there. Same here, the BPL providers KNEW about part 15, they just have to live with it. The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. The judge will likely issue a "cease and desist" order. If you ignore it, and fire up your rig anew, the LOCAL sherriff will be ordered to take possesion of your equipment and probably take down your antennas (at your expence), as well. A good attorney would point out that federal law trumps local law. There is probably enough prior cases dealing with TVI to act as such a defense. You can appeal these actions ... and you will very likely win your case on appeal. But, only after two or more years of gut wrenching legalistics and an expenditure reaching the $100,000 range ... probably several hunderd thousand dollars. Each and every ham like you, will likely have to fight this same battle, over, and over again ... for himself, by himself, in each and every jurisdiction. The ARRL doesn't have the money or staff to help you. If you think its not possible, ask the guys from New York, who were prosecuted under the "scanner laws", if their rigs have been returned to them, yet. They won their cases. As for the rest of your comments, I suppose you have made up your mind and have burned your license, framed the ashes, and sold your radio gear to the CB'er next door. I think there IS hope for the hobby, attitudes about Morse are changing, the old farts in the ARRL being replaced by younger blood. I personally think SOME way of keeping CW from totally disapearing is needed, just to keep the diversity alive. It IS time for a CW free HF license with mainline privilages. Keep the Extra class cw bands exclusive, we can afford setting aside 25khz on several bands for this. Keep some segments of all bands reserved for CW and other 'narrow bandwith' modes, according to their usage. The ARRL's new band plans at least sound like a start toward making ham radio more accessable to everyone. BUT some sort of work IS needed to get a license, or we will be left with nothing but the kaos that CB became. (If you don't put some effort into getting yourself license, will you have enough pride in it to respect it?) As for BPL, I think in a decade it will be nothing but a memory, killed off by better technology. Some of the power companies that are getting into the broadband business are doing so by opening up their own networks (which are fiber and rf based) to their end customers. The term BPL in this case refers NOT to the method of delivery, but to the provider. The power companies use a network to control power loading transfering data between distribution points. You're going to get BPL, in one form or another. The reasons have nothing to do with an advance in technology. They have everything to do with MONEY and POLITICS. You're going to get BPL. And, quite frankly, you deserve it. The FCC, The US Congress, The US Court systems ... are the very best that MONEY can buy. The Commissioners of the FCC are NOT technologists ... they are bookkeepres, accountants, would-be/failed politicians (or, their sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters), and lobbyists. They are NOT your "friends-in-high-places". They've been bought and paid for. They "take the king's coin, and do his bidding". Why? You, Amateur Radio as a group, are mostly old, mostly fat, selfish, lazy ....and, you don't VOTE regularly and knowledgeably. When you do vote, it is on issues having little to do with your own self interest, your community, or your hobby. At present, the FCC records some 900,000 licences for the Amateur service. Of these, at least 15% are dead people. That leaves about 800,000 "living" hams. Of those, less than 20 % vote regularly. So, you have a total influence with the US Congress of aproximately 160,000 votes .... scattered across 450 odd districts. Not much for political "Clout". You are selfish. Your promote your hobby as an exclusionary fraternity. You are NOT, at this date, an inclusive, accepting, welcoming union of like minded and interested individuals. Rather, you link your hobby to additional exclusionary protocols ... religious belief (I throw "morse" and Christianity in the same pot), sexual orientation (or just gender), language, race, and social origin. If you doubt me, you haven't been listening to much of the chatter on 20 and 75 meter SSB. On my local 2 meter repeater, there are "extras" who won't even chat with a "no-code tech" or "queer CB'er". Heaven help you if they hear you practicing your Spanish with someone from Cuba. What the hobby needs to force a repeal/reconsideration of BPL is an infussion of about 10 million kids each of whom has 2 parents and 4 grand-parents ... all of voting age. 60 million votes ... thats CLOUT! But, given the history of such things as 'Incentive Licensing", the "Save Eleven" fiasco, and the religious "Rite of Morse", there is little chance of seeing any such infusion before the entire hobby is history. You are going to get BPL! In short, don't invest in a new Icom rig, or that fantastiic Orion. Instead, buy fishing gear ... find a new hobby, 'cuz this one is all but dead. Harv Nelson, AI9NL Washburn, WI |
Harv nelson wrote:
OK Hams in Cincy. When you can't hear anything because the band is full of BPL crap fire up your linears and rotate your beams toward the noise, then call CQ all night. The BPL people will find their internet not working because of the 'QRM' and there ain't a thing they can legally do about it! When the customers demand their money back maybe the power companies will call the experiment a failure. My reaction (below) to the "QRM solution" (quoted above) was previously posted on QRZ.net. This is not a suggested course of action. The FCC regulations do require us to use the minimum amount of power to get the job done. Is trying to overcome QRN a good reason to switch to high power? I think the FCC regs would support that. I'm sure that if we just operate as we normally do, perhaps switch to high power if necessary (but still remain within the law as far as all requirements apply) we are not anymore a Public Nuisance than we ever were. It's like the guy who moved next door to an airport and then complains about the noise. He KNEW the airport was there. Same here, the BPL providers KNEW about part 15, they just have to live with it. The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. The judge will likely issue a "cease and desist" order. If you ignore it, and fire up your rig anew, the LOCAL sherriff will be ordered to take possesion of your equipment and probably take down your antennas (at your expence), as well. A good attorney would point out that federal law trumps local law. There is probably enough prior cases dealing with TVI to act as such a defense. You can appeal these actions ... and you will very likely win your case on appeal. But, only after two or more years of gut wrenching legalistics and an expenditure reaching the $100,000 range ... probably several hunderd thousand dollars. Each and every ham like you, will likely have to fight this same battle, over, and over again ... for himself, by himself, in each and every jurisdiction. The ARRL doesn't have the money or staff to help you. If you think its not possible, ask the guys from New York, who were prosecuted under the "scanner laws", if their rigs have been returned to them, yet. They won their cases. As for the rest of your comments, I suppose you have made up your mind and have burned your license, framed the ashes, and sold your radio gear to the CB'er next door. I think there IS hope for the hobby, attitudes about Morse are changing, the old farts in the ARRL being replaced by younger blood. I personally think SOME way of keeping CW from totally disapearing is needed, just to keep the diversity alive. It IS time for a CW free HF license with mainline privilages. Keep the Extra class cw bands exclusive, we can afford setting aside 25khz on several bands for this. Keep some segments of all bands reserved for CW and other 'narrow bandwith' modes, according to their usage. The ARRL's new band plans at least sound like a start toward making ham radio more accessable to everyone. BUT some sort of work IS needed to get a license, or we will be left with nothing but the kaos that CB became. (If you don't put some effort into getting yourself license, will you have enough pride in it to respect it?) As for BPL, I think in a decade it will be nothing but a memory, killed off by better technology. Some of the power companies that are getting into the broadband business are doing so by opening up their own networks (which are fiber and rf based) to their end customers. The term BPL in this case refers NOT to the method of delivery, but to the provider. The power companies use a network to control power loading transfering data between distribution points. You're going to get BPL, in one form or another. The reasons have nothing to do with an advance in technology. They have everything to do with MONEY and POLITICS. You're going to get BPL. And, quite frankly, you deserve it. The FCC, The US Congress, The US Court systems ... are the very best that MONEY can buy. The Commissioners of the FCC are NOT technologists ... they are bookkeepres, accountants, would-be/failed politicians (or, their sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters), and lobbyists. They are NOT your "friends-in-high-places". They've been bought and paid for. They "take the king's coin, and do his bidding". Why? You, Amateur Radio as a group, are mostly old, mostly fat, selfish, lazy ....and, you don't VOTE regularly and knowledgeably. When you do vote, it is on issues having little to do with your own self interest, your community, or your hobby. At present, the FCC records some 900,000 licences for the Amateur service. Of these, at least 15% are dead people. That leaves about 800,000 "living" hams. Of those, less than 20 % vote regularly. So, you have a total influence with the US Congress of aproximately 160,000 votes .... scattered across 450 odd districts. Not much for political "Clout". You are selfish. Your promote your hobby as an exclusionary fraternity. You are NOT, at this date, an inclusive, accepting, welcoming union of like minded and interested individuals. Rather, you link your hobby to additional exclusionary protocols ... religious belief (I throw "morse" and Christianity in the same pot), sexual orientation (or just gender), language, race, and social origin. If you doubt me, you haven't been listening to much of the chatter on 20 and 75 meter SSB. On my local 2 meter repeater, there are "extras" who won't even chat with a "no-code tech" or "queer CB'er". Heaven help you if they hear you practicing your Spanish with someone from Cuba. What the hobby needs to force a repeal/reconsideration of BPL is an infussion of about 10 million kids each of whom has 2 parents and 4 grand-parents ... all of voting age. 60 million votes ... thats CLOUT! But, given the history of such things as 'Incentive Licensing", the "Save Eleven" fiasco, and the religious "Rite of Morse", there is little chance of seeing any such infusion before the entire hobby is history. You are going to get BPL! In short, don't invest in a new Icom rig, or that fantastiic Orion. Instead, buy fishing gear ... find a new hobby, 'cuz this one is all but dead. Harv Nelson, AI9NL Washburn, WI |
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:15:02 +0000, Ken Scharf stood up and said:
As for the rest of your comments, I suppose you have made up your mind and have burned your license, framed the ashes, and sold your radio gear to the CB'er next door. I think you missed the point of his post. It is an editorial on the state of the hobby and I think it drives home the current attitudes many (no all, of course) hams have towards the proposed changes the ARRL are supporting. It's really human nature; many people are resistant to change for variety of reasons and sometimes it takes a long, hard look in the mirror to see how silly this resistance is. The point being, if one insists on "living in the past", then their is no future. This applies to everything, not just amateur radio. And I don't think the original poster has burned his license. He's probably doing more than you or I to save the hobby by shoving the egocentrism that many hams exhibit right back in their face. And for the record, I don't think the ARRL went far enough in their recommendations. I believe their should only be two licenses: a beginners with VHF/UHF access and limited HF access, and a "general" license with full privileges and no CW required. Before you (or anybody else) flame me for this, note that I do know CW. The only reason I learned it was to get HF privileges. I maybe had 3 or 4 QSOs using CW but it's not for me. I find other digital modes like PSK31 to be more fun. But that's just me. |
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:15:02 +0000, Ken Scharf stood up and said:
As for the rest of your comments, I suppose you have made up your mind and have burned your license, framed the ashes, and sold your radio gear to the CB'er next door. I think you missed the point of his post. It is an editorial on the state of the hobby and I think it drives home the current attitudes many (no all, of course) hams have towards the proposed changes the ARRL are supporting. It's really human nature; many people are resistant to change for variety of reasons and sometimes it takes a long, hard look in the mirror to see how silly this resistance is. The point being, if one insists on "living in the past", then their is no future. This applies to everything, not just amateur radio. And I don't think the original poster has burned his license. He's probably doing more than you or I to save the hobby by shoving the egocentrism that many hams exhibit right back in their face. And for the record, I don't think the ARRL went far enough in their recommendations. I believe their should only be two licenses: a beginners with VHF/UHF access and limited HF access, and a "general" license with full privileges and no CW required. Before you (or anybody else) flame me for this, note that I do know CW. The only reason I learned it was to get HF privileges. I maybe had 3 or 4 QSOs using CW but it's not for me. I find other digital modes like PSK31 to be more fun. But that's just me. |
The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never
attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. Wouldn't it be easy to point at the back of one of the part 15 devices and show the judge where it says the device must not cause any interfearance to licensed devices and must accept any interferance from the licened devices ? Then counter sue the power company for interferance and being a public nuisance to you. |
The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never
attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. Wouldn't it be easy to point at the back of one of the part 15 devices and show the judge where it says the device must not cause any interfearance to licensed devices and must accept any interferance from the licened devices ? Then counter sue the power company for interferance and being a public nuisance to you. |
Ralph Mowery wrote:
The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. Wouldn't it be easy to point at the back of one of the part 15 devices and show the judge where it says the device must not cause any interfearance to licensed devices and must accept any interferance from the licened devices ? Then counter sue the power company for interferance and being a public nuisance to you. Catch this senario: You and your lawyer bring the Part 15 device to the show the LOCAL (Municiple) Judge. The power company and there lawyers have assembled 200-300 of their customers in the same courtroom ... pop's and mom's, grandma's,etc. ... all LOCAL voters ... all screaming for your "blood" because have ****ed up their internet access ... intentionally! The Judge knows that his decision will likely be reversed on appeal ... but, ONLY if YOU have the resources to initiate that appeal (It'll start in the 100 Kilobuck range). The Judge also knows that the folks in the courtroom will all vote for HIM in the next election ... and the power company will also make a money contribution to his campaign. You are living under the mistaken assumption that RIGHT (or "rights") and WRONG have anything at all to do with this situation. Its not about laws and regulations. Or, even physics. Its about MONEY. Its about POLITICS. Its about GRAFT. In short, its not going to be a fair fight. Bend over! And BTW ... Just keep telling me how important it is that I vote Republican in the next election (terrorism, abortion, and all that idiotic crap). AND how important it is for prospective hams to learn and love morse code. Harv, AI9NL |
Ralph Mowery wrote:
The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. Wouldn't it be easy to point at the back of one of the part 15 devices and show the judge where it says the device must not cause any interfearance to licensed devices and must accept any interferance from the licened devices ? Then counter sue the power company for interferance and being a public nuisance to you. Catch this senario: You and your lawyer bring the Part 15 device to the show the LOCAL (Municiple) Judge. The power company and there lawyers have assembled 200-300 of their customers in the same courtroom ... pop's and mom's, grandma's,etc. ... all LOCAL voters ... all screaming for your "blood" because have ****ed up their internet access ... intentionally! The Judge knows that his decision will likely be reversed on appeal ... but, ONLY if YOU have the resources to initiate that appeal (It'll start in the 100 Kilobuck range). The Judge also knows that the folks in the courtroom will all vote for HIM in the next election ... and the power company will also make a money contribution to his campaign. You are living under the mistaken assumption that RIGHT (or "rights") and WRONG have anything at all to do with this situation. Its not about laws and regulations. Or, even physics. Its about MONEY. Its about POLITICS. Its about GRAFT. In short, its not going to be a fair fight. Bend over! And BTW ... Just keep telling me how important it is that I vote Republican in the next election (terrorism, abortion, and all that idiotic crap). AND how important it is for prospective hams to learn and love morse code. Harv, AI9NL |
Arnold wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:15:02 +0000, Ken Scharf stood up and said: As for the rest of your comments, I suppose you have made up your mind and have burned your license, framed the ashes, and sold your radio gear to the CB'er next door. I think you missed the point of his post. It is an editorial on the state of the hobby and I think it drives home the current attitudes many (no all, of course) hams have towards the proposed changes the ARRL are supporting. It's really human nature; many people are resistant to change for variety of reasons and sometimes it takes a long, hard look in the mirror to see how silly this resistance is. The point being, if one insists on "living in the past", then their is no future. This applies to everything, not just amateur radio. And I don't think the original poster has burned his license. He's probably doing more than you or I to save the hobby by shoving the egocentrism that many hams exhibit right back in their face. And for the record, I don't think the ARRL went far enough in their recommendations. I believe their should only be two licenses: a beginners with VHF/UHF access and limited HF access, and a "general" license with full privileges and no CW required. Before you (or anybody else) flame me for this, note that I do know CW. The only reason I learned it was to get HF privileges. I maybe had 3 or 4 QSOs using CW but it's not for me. I find other digital modes like PSK31 to be more fun. But that's just me. I would almost agree with you on having 'only' two licenses. I still like the idea of the 'EXTRA CLASS' license as a means of promoting self improvment. It only offers a very small increase in privileges, several small slivers of bandwidth allocated for CW (and perhaps keep the extras phone slivers as well). But do combine the advanced and general class band segments and open them to everyone without the need to know CW. The CW band segments should still remain, but call them 'narrow bandwidth' segments for use ONLY with modes requiring less than say 500hz bandwidth. This would include things like digital, PSK31, and of course, CW (which could become a digital computer mode no longer requiring any gray cells to perform the incoding and decoding!). Re-evaluate how much of each band should be set aside for these narrow bandwidth segments, perhaps. There are many hams that love cw (and would use it even if it was NOT required) for things like QRP backpacking (these itty bitty rigs are quite popular, the kits sell like hotcakes). CW IS the ultimate weak signal mode. I do say this with second hand knowledge though, like you I havn't used CW much in years, but I wish could improve on that! I got my Extra when they lowered the CW requirement to 5 wpm and only the written test stood in my way to get from Advanced to Extra. (The challenge of the written test was something I could handle, and it gave me a chance to bone up on theory I hadn't looked at since college.) In closing on that, I wouldn't push CW on anybody, but I would hate to see it die out. |
Arnold wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 19:15:02 +0000, Ken Scharf stood up and said: As for the rest of your comments, I suppose you have made up your mind and have burned your license, framed the ashes, and sold your radio gear to the CB'er next door. I think you missed the point of his post. It is an editorial on the state of the hobby and I think it drives home the current attitudes many (no all, of course) hams have towards the proposed changes the ARRL are supporting. It's really human nature; many people are resistant to change for variety of reasons and sometimes it takes a long, hard look in the mirror to see how silly this resistance is. The point being, if one insists on "living in the past", then their is no future. This applies to everything, not just amateur radio. And I don't think the original poster has burned his license. He's probably doing more than you or I to save the hobby by shoving the egocentrism that many hams exhibit right back in their face. And for the record, I don't think the ARRL went far enough in their recommendations. I believe their should only be two licenses: a beginners with VHF/UHF access and limited HF access, and a "general" license with full privileges and no CW required. Before you (or anybody else) flame me for this, note that I do know CW. The only reason I learned it was to get HF privileges. I maybe had 3 or 4 QSOs using CW but it's not for me. I find other digital modes like PSK31 to be more fun. But that's just me. I would almost agree with you on having 'only' two licenses. I still like the idea of the 'EXTRA CLASS' license as a means of promoting self improvment. It only offers a very small increase in privileges, several small slivers of bandwidth allocated for CW (and perhaps keep the extras phone slivers as well). But do combine the advanced and general class band segments and open them to everyone without the need to know CW. The CW band segments should still remain, but call them 'narrow bandwidth' segments for use ONLY with modes requiring less than say 500hz bandwidth. This would include things like digital, PSK31, and of course, CW (which could become a digital computer mode no longer requiring any gray cells to perform the incoding and decoding!). Re-evaluate how much of each band should be set aside for these narrow bandwidth segments, perhaps. There are many hams that love cw (and would use it even if it was NOT required) for things like QRP backpacking (these itty bitty rigs are quite popular, the kits sell like hotcakes). CW IS the ultimate weak signal mode. I do say this with second hand knowledge though, like you I havn't used CW much in years, but I wish could improve on that! I got my Extra when they lowered the CW requirement to 5 wpm and only the written test stood in my way to get from Advanced to Extra. (The challenge of the written test was something I could handle, and it gave me a chance to bone up on theory I hadn't looked at since college.) In closing on that, I wouldn't push CW on anybody, but I would hate to see it die out. |
Harv nelson wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote: The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. Wouldn't it be easy to point at the back of one of the part 15 devices and show the judge where it says the device must not cause any interfearance to licensed devices and must accept any interferance from the licened devices ? Then counter sue the power company for interferance and being a public nuisance to you. Catch this senario: You and your lawyer bring the Part 15 device to the show the LOCAL (Municiple) Judge. The power company and there lawyers have assembled 200-300 of their customers in the same courtroom ... pop's and mom's, grandma's,etc. ... all LOCAL voters ... all screaming for your "blood" because have ****ed up their internet access ... intentionally! The Judge knows that his decision will likely be reversed on appeal ... but, ONLY if YOU have the resources to initiate that appeal (It'll start in the 100 Kilobuck range). The Judge also knows that the folks in the courtroom will all vote for HIM in the next election ... and the power company will also make a money contribution to his campaign. You are living under the mistaken assumption that RIGHT (or "rights") and WRONG have anything at all to do with this situation. Its not about laws and regulations. Or, even physics. Its about MONEY. Its about POLITICS. Its about GRAFT. In short, its not going to be a fair fight. Bend over! Perhaps. But it WILL only take ONE FEDERAL judge to turn it around then no futher LOCAl judge will prevail. And maybe the ARRL will send one of their lawyers down pro-bono to see that this happens. And BTW ... Just keep telling me how important it is that I vote Republican in the next election (terrorism, abortion, and all that idiotic crap). AND how important it is for prospective hams to learn and love morse code. You have made a VERY good case for all of us NOT to vote Republican. And BTW GWB CAN'T be RE-Elected, since he WASN'T elected in the first place. He was CROWNED by the best supreme court money could buy. Harv, AI9NL |
Harv nelson wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote: The power companies know all about the Part 15 rules. They will never attempt to prosecute you or harass you via the FCC or Federal Courts. You WILL find yourself in a LOCAL court room, before a LOCAL judge, and a LOCAL District Attorney. You will be prosecuted as a “Public Nuisance" under the same laws used to protect the public from dogs running at large, kids who squeel their car tires, and people who leave piles of garbage laying about. Wouldn't it be easy to point at the back of one of the part 15 devices and show the judge where it says the device must not cause any interfearance to licensed devices and must accept any interferance from the licened devices ? Then counter sue the power company for interferance and being a public nuisance to you. Catch this senario: You and your lawyer bring the Part 15 device to the show the LOCAL (Municiple) Judge. The power company and there lawyers have assembled 200-300 of their customers in the same courtroom ... pop's and mom's, grandma's,etc. ... all LOCAL voters ... all screaming for your "blood" because have ****ed up their internet access ... intentionally! The Judge knows that his decision will likely be reversed on appeal ... but, ONLY if YOU have the resources to initiate that appeal (It'll start in the 100 Kilobuck range). The Judge also knows that the folks in the courtroom will all vote for HIM in the next election ... and the power company will also make a money contribution to his campaign. You are living under the mistaken assumption that RIGHT (or "rights") and WRONG have anything at all to do with this situation. Its not about laws and regulations. Or, even physics. Its about MONEY. Its about POLITICS. Its about GRAFT. In short, its not going to be a fair fight. Bend over! Perhaps. But it WILL only take ONE FEDERAL judge to turn it around then no futher LOCAl judge will prevail. And maybe the ARRL will send one of their lawyers down pro-bono to see that this happens. And BTW ... Just keep telling me how important it is that I vote Republican in the next election (terrorism, abortion, and all that idiotic crap). AND how important it is for prospective hams to learn and love morse code. You have made a VERY good case for all of us NOT to vote Republican. And BTW GWB CAN'T be RE-Elected, since he WASN'T elected in the first place. He was CROWNED by the best supreme court money could buy. Harv, AI9NL |
You have made a VERY good case for all of us NOT to vote Republican. And BTW GWB CAN'T be RE-Elected, since he WASN'T elected in the first place. He was CROWNED by the best supreme court money could buy. It does not seem to make any differance which party is in. I usually vote for someone that has never been . If you ask the 5000 people out of work in the town I live in whose cotton mill closed who they should have voted for I bet they would have said Ross Perot but it is too late now. I don't even know who or what the platform was in the last presidential election but I voted for the third party, same as the ones before that. You are right, the judges are not elected. |
You have made a VERY good case for all of us NOT to vote Republican. And BTW GWB CAN'T be RE-Elected, since he WASN'T elected in the first place. He was CROWNED by the best supreme court money could buy. It does not seem to make any differance which party is in. I usually vote for someone that has never been . If you ask the 5000 people out of work in the town I live in whose cotton mill closed who they should have voted for I bet they would have said Ross Perot but it is too late now. I don't even know who or what the platform was in the last presidential election but I voted for the third party, same as the ones before that. You are right, the judges are not elected. |
Perhaps. But it WILL only take ONE FEDERAL judge to turn it around then
no futher LOCAl judge will prevail. And maybe the ARRL will send one of their lawyers down pro-bono to see that this happens. "One of their lawyers"????? The only ARRL lawyer I know of is Chris Imlay, and he has quite a few other clients as well. Perhaps they would hire a lawyer for you, but I wouldn't count on it. |
Perhaps. But it WILL only take ONE FEDERAL judge to turn it around then
no futher LOCAl judge will prevail. And maybe the ARRL will send one of their lawyers down pro-bono to see that this happens. "One of their lawyers"????? The only ARRL lawyer I know of is Chris Imlay, and he has quite a few other clients as well. Perhaps they would hire a lawyer for you, but I wouldn't count on it. |
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