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HP crystal Osc
What possible use does a HP 10811-6011 Crystal Oscillator have in a
homebrew project. I came across one of these but don'y really know what to do with it. I hate to toss it out. |
Makes a good house standard to calibrate your receivers and test equipment.
Try google search engine to see how others use it Type in HP 10811 -- Lamont Cranston The Shadow Knows "hamaddict" wrote in message ... What possible use does a HP 10811-6011 Crystal Oscillator have in a homebrew project. I came across one of these but don'y really know what to do with it. I hate to toss it out. |
Some the guys around here use them on 10 GHz SSB.
You really need that kind of stability for that mode. A TCXO is 100X worse. Another popular use is as a "flywheel" with GPS, to get a very accurate frequency source. Search on "HP Z3801" for info. (I worked at the HP division that made these for 19 years.) Rick N6RK "hamaddict" wrote in message ... What possible use does a HP 10811-6011 Crystal Oscillator have in a homebrew project. I came across one of these but don'y really know what to do with it. I hate to toss it out. |
One of the great things which the telecom bust did was to make the equipment
you designed at HP available to us experimenters -- I use my HP3586C Receiver's ovenized oscillator to drive my HP5334 frequency counter and HP3336B Synthesizer. I never dreamed I could have afforded this type of equipment until EBay made it possible. "Rick Karlquist N6RK" wrote in message news:jxKHc.51075$a24.19212@attbi_s03... Some the guys around here use them on 10 GHz SSB. You really need that kind of stability for that mode. A TCXO is 100X worse. Another popular use is as a "flywheel" with GPS, to get a very accurate frequency source. Search on "HP Z3801" for info. (I worked at the HP division that made these for 19 years.) Rick N6RK "hamaddict" wrote in message ... What possible use does a HP 10811-6011 Crystal Oscillator have in a homebrew project. I came across one of these but don'y really know what to do with it. I hate to toss it out. |
I was the project manager of the 5334B frequency counter.
It had an option to have a 10811 timebase. The standard timebase, which I inherited from the 5334A design was embarassingly bad, barely able to do 10 PPM. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a 10811 to a 5334, because you need an extra PC board. This board is required to be able to put the 10811 on its side, because there isn't enough height for it. The gray market in used HP/Agilent test equipment is really hurting Agilent in some products. My old division no longer exists. I now work at Agilent Labs. Rick N6RK project manager for the "John Walton" wrote in message ... One of the great things which the telecom bust did was to make the equipment you designed at HP available to us experimenters -- I use my HP3586C Receiver's ovenized oscillator to drive my HP5334 frequency counter |
In article rKXHc.53423$MB3.51741@attbi_s04,
says... I was the project manager of the 5334B frequency counter. It had an option to have a 10811 timebase. The standard timebase, which I inherited from the 5334A design was embarassingly bad, barely able to do 10 PPM. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a 10811 to a 5334, because you need an extra PC board. This board is required to be able to put the 10811 on its side, because there isn't enough height for it. Interesting. Could you shed some light on the timebase used in the 8566B and related analyzers circa 1984? The one I'm looking at doesn't appear to be the standard 10544 or 10811 unit. I've never run across one of these before in any other HP instruments. Is it just a repackaged 10811? -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:48:39 GMT, "Rick Karlquist N6RK"
wrote: I was the project manager of the 5334B frequency counter. It had an option to have a 10811 timebase. The standard timebase, which I inherited from the 5334A design was embarassingly bad, barely able to do 10 PPM. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a 10811 to a 5334, because you need an extra PC board. This board is required to be able to put the 10811 on its side, because there isn't enough height for it. The gray market in used HP/Agilent test equipment is really hurting Agilent in some products. My old division no longer exists. I now work at Agilent Labs. Rick N6RK project manager for the "John Walton" wrote in message ... One of the great things which the telecom bust did was to make the equipment you designed at HP available to us experimenters -- I use my HP3586C Receiver's ovenized oscillator to drive my HP5334 frequency counter Rick, The 10811 that I have has a decal on it that reads "upgraded to series 3010". Do you know what that means? thanks, Lefty |
"Rick Karlquist N6RK" wrote in message news:rKXHc.53423$MB3.51741@attbi_s04... snip : : The gray market in used HP/Agilent test equipment is : really hurting Agilent in some products. My old division no : longer exists. I now work at Agilent Labs. : Rick N6RK Used equipment is NOT a "gray" market. Anyone who buys an expensive piece of equipment is entitled to sell when they no longer have a use for it. |
The various versions of 10811 have part numbers
of the form 10811-6XXXX. There are a few dozen varieties. I've never heard of "series 3010" in reference to 10811's. Rick N6RK "hamaddict" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:48:39 GMT, "Rick Karlquist N6RK" wrote: I was the project manager of the 5334B frequency counter. It had an option to have a 10811 timebase. The standard timebase, which I inherited from the 5334A design was embarassingly bad, barely able to do 10 PPM. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a 10811 to a 5334, because you need an extra PC board. This board is required to be able to put the 10811 on its side, because there isn't enough height for it. The gray market in used HP/Agilent test equipment is really hurting Agilent in some products. My old division no longer exists. I now work at Agilent Labs. Rick N6RK project manager for the "John Walton" wrote in message ... One of the great things which the telecom bust did was to make the equipment you designed at HP available to us experimenters -- I use my HP3586C Receiver's ovenized oscillator to drive my HP5334 frequency counter Rick, The 10811 that I have has a decal on it that reads "upgraded to series 3010". Do you know what that means? thanks, Lefty |
I'm guessing that the 8566, being the flagship product, used the
deluxe version of the 10811 with RF connectors instead of the edge card connector usually seen. The two versions were designed with A and B suffixes originally, and later with D and E suffixes. (I don't know what happened to the C suffix). Inside the shielded box, the oscillator itself is a normal 10811 series. Rick N6RK "John Miles" wrote in message ... In article rKXHc.53423$MB3.51741@attbi_s04, says... I was the project manager of the 5334B frequency counter. It had an option to have a 10811 timebase. The standard timebase, which I inherited from the 5334A design was embarassingly bad, barely able to do 10 PPM. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a 10811 to a 5334, because you need an extra PC board. This board is required to be able to put the 10811 on its side, because there isn't enough height for it. Interesting. Could you shed some light on the timebase used in the 8566B and related analyzers circa 1984? The one I'm looking at doesn't appear to be the standard 10544 or 10811 unit. I've never run across one of these before in any other HP instruments. Is it just a repackaged 10811? -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
In article ,
says... "Rick Karlquist N6RK" wrote in message news:JX%Hc.65061$Oq2.47948@attbi_s52... : : Only if they paid for it. Many customers went bankrupt. Regardless! In a lease purchase, the leasing company has the option to recover the property. If a bankrupt judgment was made, it was sold as a tangible asset, no difference. However maybe it IS an indication the price was too high? (If it bankrupt the company.) Somehow, I don't think Agilent's price list is to blame for the telecom bankruptcy wave. :-P -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:37:16 GMT, "Rick Karlquist N6RK"
wrote: The various versions of 10811 have part numbers of the form 10811-6XXXX. There are a few dozen varieties. I've never heard of "series 3010" in reference to 10811's. Rick N6RK "hamaddict" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:48:39 GMT, "Rick Karlquist N6RK" wrote: I was the project manager of the 5334B frequency counter. It had an option to have a 10811 timebase. The standard timebase, which I inherited from the 5334A design was embarassingly bad, barely able to do 10 PPM. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a 10811 to a 5334, because you need an extra PC board. This board is required to be able to put the 10811 on its side, because there isn't enough height for it. The gray market in used HP/Agilent test equipment is really hurting Agilent in some products. My old division no longer exists. I now work at Agilent Labs. Rick N6RK project manager for the "John Walton" wrote in message ... One of the great things which the telecom bust did was to make the equipment you designed at HP available to us experimenters -- I use my HP3586C Receiver's ovenized oscillator to drive my HP5334 frequency counter Rick, The 10811 that I have has a decal on it that reads "upgraded to series 3010". Do you know what that means? thanks, Lefty It's actually a 10811-60111 with a seperate decal thats says 3010...I was just curious. thanks, lefty |
The 10811 that I have has a decal on it that reads "upgraded to series
3010". Do you know what that means? Lefty- The 10811-60111 that came in my used HP 5334B counter, had a blown thermal fuse. Upon considerable investigation, I found that it was a common problem and had been addressed by HP, using fuse with a higher temperature rating. It is possible that your 3010 refers to the thermal fuse upgrade. Incidentally, the going price for a used 10811-60111 was around $100 a couple of years ago. I trusted a guy and ended up with a second unit that also had a blown thermal fuse! 73, Fred, K4DII |
In article ,
says... It's actually a 10811-60111 with a seperate decal thats says 3010...I Possibly it refers to a production change that took place in the 10th week of 1990 (=60 + 30), in HP date code. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
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AFAIK, the 3010 sticker has nothing to do with the thermal
fuse issue. The thermal fuse was a debacle from the get go. If your fuse fails, just replace it with a piece of wire. Ovens very rarely run away. It is far more likely the fuse will fail or its socket will corrode (can't solder it in because the solder would melt the fuse). If the oven does run away, the heater transistors will open up and serve as fuses. Rick N6RK "Fred McKenzie" wrote in message ... The 10811 that I have has a decal on it that reads "upgraded to series 3010". Do you know what that means? Lefty- The 10811-60111 that came in my used HP 5334B counter, had a blown thermal fuse. Upon considerable investigation, I found that it was a common problem and had been addressed by HP, using fuse with a higher temperature rating. It is possible that your 3010 refers to the thermal fuse upgrade. Incidentally, the going price for a used 10811-60111 was around $100 a couple of years ago. I trusted a guy and ended up with a second unit that also had a blown thermal fuse! 73, Fred, K4DII |
In article 0ZxIc.58659$JR4.11986@attbi_s54,
says... AFAIK, the 3010 sticker has nothing to do with the thermal fuse issue. The thermal fuse was a debacle from the get go. If your fuse fails, just replace it with a piece of wire. Ovens very rarely run away. It is far more likely the fuse will fail or its socket will corrode (can't solder it in because the solder would melt the fuse). If the oven does run away, the heater transistors will open up and serve as fuses. I'd always assumed it was there to avoid heat-damage to the expensive part (the crystal). Unfortunately, it was mounted far outside the thermal enclosure for the crystal and its oven, so it's unlikely to detect any failure condition short of a house fire. -- jm ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam ------------------------------------------------------ |
Ovens
very rarely run away. It is far more likely the fuse will fail or its socket will corrode (can't solder it in because the solder would melt the fuse). If the oven does run away, the heater transistors will open up and serve as fuses Rick- I've seen photos of these ovens on E-Bay, that had been stained by smoke coming out of the adjustment hole. I'd rather have some kind of protection. I believe the oven uses proportional control, so the transistors' maximum dissipation would occur when the heating element is half on. In a "runaway" mode, the transistors would be switched on with maximum current but nearly zero voltage. Also, one transistor failure mode is a short-circuit. With regard to John Miles' comment about the thermal fuse being to far from the oven's heating element to be effective, perhaps that is true. However, the earlier thermal fuse was rated at 108 degrees C, and it occasionally would open in an oven that was apparently operating correctly in the range of 80 to 84 degrees C. The newer fuse is rated at 115 degrees C. I suspect the problem is that it is opening due to a combination of time and temperature, not temperature alone. I've been running one of the new parts for about two years without a hitch. The frequency has not been adjusted since about two years ago, and it still takes 15 or 20 seconds to drift one Hz against a 10 MHz rubidium oscillator. That HP 5334B is one nice counter! 73, Fred, K4DII |
The crystal will not be damaged by any temperature the oven
is capable of. Rick N6RK "John Miles" wrote in message ... I'd always assumed it was there to avoid heat-damage to the expensive part (the crystal). Unfortunately, it was mounted far outside the thermal enclosure for the crystal and its oven, so it's unlikely to detect any failure condition short of a house fire. -- jm |
The insulation turns brown with age even in the absence
of smoke. Rick N6RK "Fred McKenzie" wrote in message ... Ovens very rarely run away. It is far more likely the fuse will fail or its socket will corrode (can't solder it in because the solder would melt the fuse). If the oven does run away, the heater transistors will open up and serve as fuses Rick- I've seen photos of these ovens on E-Bay, that had been stained by smoke coming out of the adjustment hole. I'd rather have some kind of protection. I believe the oven uses proportional control, so the transistors' maximum dissipation would occur when the heating element is half on. In a "runaway" mode, the transistors would be switched on with maximum current but nearly zero voltage. Also, one transistor failure mode is a short-circuit. With regard to John Miles' comment about the thermal fuse being to far from the oven's heating element to be effective, perhaps that is true. However, the earlier thermal fuse was rated at 108 degrees C, and it occasionally would open in an oven that was apparently operating correctly in the range of 80 to 84 degrees C. The newer fuse is rated at 115 degrees C. I suspect the problem is that it is opening due to a combination of time and temperature, not temperature alone. I've been running one of the new parts for about two years without a hitch. The frequency has not been adjusted since about two years ago, and it still takes 15 or 20 seconds to drift one Hz against a 10 MHz rubidium oscillator. That HP 5334B is one nice counter! 73, Fred, K4DII |
In article ,
Fred McKenzie wrote: Rick- I've seen photos of these ovens on E-Bay, that had been stained by smoke coming out of the adjustment hole. I'd rather have some kind of protection. I believe the oven uses proportional control, so the transistors' maximum dissipation would occur when the heating element is half on. In a "runaway" mode, the transistors would be switched on with maximum current but nearly zero voltage. Also, one transistor failure mode is a short-circuit. Seems like a self-resetting "Polyswitch" overcurrent limiter might be a workable alternative. You'd probably want to pick one whose "will pass" current is somewhat above the highest amount of current that the oven would draw when it's quite cold. If the transistor shorts, and the oven draws more current than that, the polyswitch would heat up enough to go high-Z and chop off the current. Cutting power for a minute or so would reset it. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
In the very early days of newsgroups (musta been in the early late 1980's --
back when I had a Compuadd 286-25) there was a post put together from an HP Engineer and an HP Sales Guy -- to the extent that you could order a tuna sandwich, 8566A, but mayonaise OPT-010030 was an additional $0.30, if you wanted the sandwich sliced, that was OPT-010031 for which you had to pay $0.05. Of course, you could have the sandwich diagonally sliced, and on and on. If you filled out your registration cards you could get updates on the menu, but once tuna fish sandwiches were discontinued spare parts could not be reordered. "Rick Karlquist N6RK" wrote in message news:rKXHc.53423$MB3.51741@attbi_s04... I was the project manager of the 5334B frequency counter. It had an option to have a 10811 timebase. The standard timebase, which I inherited from the 5334A design was embarassingly bad, barely able to do 10 PPM. Unfortunately, you cannot retrofit a 10811 to a 5334, because you need an extra PC board. This board is required to be able to put the 10811 on its side, because there isn't enough height for it. The gray market in used HP/Agilent test equipment is really hurting Agilent in some products. My old division no longer exists. I now work at Agilent Labs. Rick N6RK project manager for the "John Walton" wrote in message ... One of the great things which the telecom bust did was to make the equipment you designed at HP available to us experimenters -- I use my HP3586C Receiver's ovenized oscillator to drive my HP5334 frequency counter |
The runaway oven problem isn't caused by too much transistor
current, rather it is caused by the transistor staying on too long. Thus a current based system wouldn't work. Also, in the case of the 5334A, the power supply is barely able to supply minimum current for warmup, so the oscillator couldn't draw more than normal warmup current even if it tried. In the 5334B, I improved the power supply so that it warms up the oscillator in half the time or less compared to the 34A. Rick N6RK "Dave Platt" wrote in message ... In article , Fred McKenzie wrote: Rick- I've seen photos of these ovens on E-Bay, that had been stained by smoke coming out of the adjustment hole. I'd rather have some kind of protection. I believe the oven uses proportional control, so the transistors' maximum dissipation would occur when the heating element is half on. In a "runaway" mode, the transistors would be switched on with maximum current but nearly zero voltage. Also, one transistor failure mode is a short-circuit. Seems like a self-resetting "Polyswitch" overcurrent limiter might be a workable alternative. You'd probably want to pick one whose "will pass" current is somewhat above the highest amount of current that the oven would draw when it's quite cold. If the transistor shorts, and the oven draws more current than that, the polyswitch would heat up enough to go high-Z and chop off the current. Cutting power for a minute or so would reset it. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
Quote:
I had thought the output transistors are the heaters; Q7 and Q8. There's a couple low wattage resistors in series with transistors for some protection too. Regards, Bill Hall N6TKC |
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