On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:50:03 GMT, Ignoramus4324
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:27:24 -0700, H. P. Friedrichs wrote:
It appeared that the old sensor had been struck by rock, and the core of
the sense coil had probably been fractured. I was left to wonder how it
is that, without the benefit of factory training, documentation, or
diagnostic equipment I could troubleshoot and repair the problem when
the dealership could not....

It is not true that you did not have diagnostic equipment, you had a
scope. You also had enough training to figure out where to look.

As for documentation, everyone would benefit from owning proper repair
manuals.

What these techs do is, for the most part, not magic, they follow a
[well designed] procedure -- except when the dishonest ones suggest
unnecessary repairs, as in proposing to start swapping one part after
another.

i

In many cases these mechanics are not so much dishonest as ignorant.
They just plain do NOT know how to troubleshoot.
The ones that have the manual, and know how to read it (that is an art
in itself - particularly with FORD Manuals) they blindly follow the
pinpoint tests - which can send you in 15 interlocking circles at the
same time if you do not use your PDT (Primary Diagnostic Tool)
(Otherwize known as the brain God gave you). Blindly following the
manual can cause you to replace many parts that are not part of the
problem.

In order to effectively troubleshoot today's systems, you MUST have an
understanding of how it is SUPPOSED to work, so when it doesn't, you
have a clue as to why.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:50:03 +0000, Ignoramus4324 wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:27:24 -0700, H. P. Friedrichs wrote:
It appeared that the old sensor had been struck by rock, and the core of
the sense coil had probably been fractured. I was left to wonder how it
is that, without the benefit of factory training, documentation, or
diagnostic equipment I could troubleshoot and repair the problem when
the dealership could not....

It is not true that you did not have diagnostic equipment, you had a
scope. You also had enough training to figure out where to look.

As for documentation, everyone would benefit from owning proper repair
manuals.

What these techs do is, for the most part, not magic, they follow a
[well designed] procedure -- except when the dishonest ones suggest
unnecessary repairs, as in proposing to start swapping one part after
another.


Yeah, I went to Midas for a "$39.99" muffler. When I finally got the
car back, the bill was over $400.00. I should have sued the *******s.

Don't ever go to Midas, and tell your friends, relatives, and what the
heck, people on the street: Don't go to Midas - they're thieves.

Thanks,
Rich

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes.

So what can a person build out of these?

The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the
components seem to be in good condition.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

TMT

If you can get your hands on a copy of the 2005 ARRL Handbook, there are
several suggestions in there (radio-related, but you can improvise from
them), and some information about UPS's.

One is a charger for 12V storage batteries in general, including car
batteries. Another is an emergency power supply (you can just run two wires
to your car battery, or a bank of deep-discharge batteries wired in parallel
if you're so inclined). Depending on the model you have, you can get 160 W
to over 300 W of 120 VAC and/or 12VDC from them.

Mine (an APC Back-UPS 600) is now wired to an old car battery. It will run
my computer for a lot longer than the old gel-cell that came with it. Since
we're on the end of a power transmission line, it gets a fair amount of use.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed from Ed I just picked up a apc bk500. I charged it most of the night
and the voltage only shows 98 volt on battery. The instructions on the
internet show some sort of cd disc for windows which I do not have with
a good battery can I just use it as it is for a usp for the computer.
no alarm led lights on and it appears to be working fine thanks Ed

"Ed ke6bnl" wrote in message
oups.com...

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am the "lucky" owner of a number of older UPSes.

So what can a person build out of these?

The batteries are for the most part dead but the remainder of the
components seem to be in good condition.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

TMT

If you can get your hands on a copy of the 2005 ARRL Handbook, there are
several suggestions in there (radio-related, but you can improvise from
them), and some information about UPS's.

One is a charger for 12V storage batteries in general, including car
batteries. Another is an emergency power supply (you can just run two
wires
to your car battery, or a bank of deep-discharge batteries wired in
parallel
if you're so inclined). Depending on the model you have, you can get 160
W
to over 300 W of 120 VAC and/or 12VDC from them.

Mine (an APC Back-UPS 600) is now wired to an old car battery. It will
run
my computer for a lot longer than the old gel-cell that came with it.
Since
we're on the end of a power transmission line, it gets a fair amount of
use.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed from Ed I just picked up a apc bk500. I charged it most of the night
and the voltage only shows 98 volt on battery. The instructions on the
internet show some sort of cd disc for windows which I do not have with
a good battery can I just use it as it is for a usp for the computer.
no alarm led lights on and it appears to be working fine thanks Ed

I'm not aware of the inner workings of these things, Ed, nor have I put an
AC voltmeter on the output, running off the car battery, to see what actual
voltage I'm getting. The computer runs fine off of it but now you have my
curiosity going.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed from Ed I just picked up a apc bk500. I charged it most of the night
and the voltage only shows 98 volt on battery. The instructions on the
internet show some sort of cd disc for windows which I do not have with
a good battery can I just use it as it is for a usp for the computer.
no alarm led lights on and it appears to be working fine thanks Ed

I'm not aware of the inner workings of these things, Ed, nor have I put an
AC voltmeter on the output, running off the car battery, to see what actual
voltage I'm getting. The computer runs fine off of it but now you have my
curiosity going.

It might be worth re-checking the AC output voltage using a voltmeter
which reads "true RMS". Most inexpensive voltmeters actually read the
peak voltage, and display an RMS value calculated based on the
assumption that the waveform is sinusoidal.

A lot of backup power supplies use inverters that create a distinctly
non-sinusoidal waveform... it's sometimes a square wave, and sometimes
a "stepped" waveform which crudely approximates a sinusoid.

It's entirely possible that the APC BK500 creates a non-sinusoidal
waveform, whose RMS value is close to the nominal 120 VAC, but whose
peak voltage is lower than that of a true sinusoid having 120 VAC RMS.
This could cause most inexpensive voltmeters to read a value that's
too low.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

The APC BK500 has a step Output waveform that would be no problem for a
computer and monitor.
MGE UPS systems are a sinewave

"Dave Platt" wrote in message
...
Ed from Ed I just picked up a apc bk500. I charged it most of the night
and the voltage only shows 98 volt on battery. The instructions on the
internet show some sort of cd disc for windows which I do not have with
a good battery can I just use it as it is for a usp for the computer.
no alarm led lights on and it appears to be working fine thanks Ed

I'm not aware of the inner workings of these things, Ed, nor have I put an
AC voltmeter on the output, running off the car battery, to see what
actual
voltage I'm getting. The computer runs fine off of it but now you have my
curiosity going.

It might be worth re-checking the AC output voltage using a voltmeter
which reads "true RMS". Most inexpensive voltmeters actually read the
peak voltage, and display an RMS value calculated based on the
assumption that the waveform is sinusoidal.

A lot of backup power supplies use inverters that create a distinctly
non-sinusoidal waveform... it's sometimes a square wave, and sometimes
a "stepped" waveform which crudely approximates a sinusoid.

It's entirely possible that the APC BK500 creates a non-sinusoidal
waveform, whose RMS value is close to the nominal 120 VAC, but whose
peak voltage is lower than that of a true sinusoid having 120 VAC RMS.
This could cause most inexpensive voltmeters to read a value that's
too low.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!