Joel Kolstad wrote:

"xpyttl" wrote in message
...
However, depending on where you are, you can typically only hear WWVB for a
small part of the day.

Does a bigger antenna help? Or is there just so much more background noise
than signal that it's a lost cause?

Hmm... isn't the data rate something like 1bps? Maybe they could do some
direct sequence spreading at 100Hz or so and improve the link margin a handful
of dB... :-)

And lose the ability to be used as a frequency standard?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On 24 Jan 2006 07:58:14 -0800, "Tim Shoppa"
wrote:

wrote:
How about a simple one to three transistor regenative reciever.

In principle that's a great idea, but the gotcha is that very near
WWV's 10MHz frequency there are a lot of powerhouse SW broadcasters.
Here on the East Coast in the evenings, there are at least 10 SW
broadcasters each of which are 10x more powerful all within +/- 100kHz
of 10MHz, several of them within 10kHz of 10MHz.

If I fire up my regenerative receiver (my trusty old Space Spanner that
my Dad bought for me when I was in 2nd grade!) WWV 10MHz reception does
not work at all in the evenings due to those broadcasters, my
particular regen just does not deal well with all those stations packed
so tight together. The adjacent broadcasters block up the receiver or
sometimes the regen locks onto them instead!

On 5 or 15 or 20 MHz, or on the west coast, the regenerative may welll
work better. (There are SW broadcasters near 5 and 15 but not nearly so
close and not nearly so packed.)

If the OP is looking for a build-it-yourself SW receiver for picking up
the powerhouse SW broadcasters, then a regen is a fine choice. In fact
my complaint is that my regen doesn't pick up WWV because of all those
other broadcasters outgunning it here :-).

Ten-Tec and others sell really nice regenerative receiver kits for SW.

Tim.

The trick with regens is to couple as loosely as possible. There is
enough gain in most regens that even a very loose coupling is enough
to overlaod and flatten out the selectivity.

At 5mhz I have no difficulty here is MA and at 10mhz it's still not a
problem. I've even heard WWVH from here when propagation was good.


Allison

In article ,
xpyttl wrote:
"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...

Are you looking to decode the data transmissions or listen to the voice
signals. If the former it may take something more sophisticated
because you will have to feed a decoder.

Well, the 60 kHz WWVB transmissions were designed to be decoded, and there
are a fair number of projects out there to do just that. However, depending
on where you are, you can typically only hear WWVB for a small part of the
day.

The same time code is in the WWV HF signals as a 100 Hz, One Baud, pulse
duration modulated subcarrier tone. If you've only got a communications
grade speaker in your receiver, you may not notice it.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

"Tim Shoppa" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
How about a simple one to three transistor regenative reciever.

In principle that's a great idea, but the gotcha is that very near
WWV's 10MHz frequency there are a lot of powerhouse SW broadcasters.

Well, I suppose it depends on where OP is. Here in the middle, 10 MHz isn't
much of a problem but 15 is.

*HOWEVER*, 10 has one huge advantage -- there are very low cost uP crystals
for 10 MHz, so building even a simple reciever with a brick wall front end
isn't such a big deal, if the only frequency you care about is 10 MHz.
Personally, I'd go with a DC rather than a regen - a lot simpler and these
days, a simple SA612 will give you way more sensitivity than you can
possibly use on 10 MHz for a couple bucks. Well, with a crystal filter in
front maybe you will need a little amp, not so sure. But still quite a bit
simpler than a regen. Heck, if the local QRM isn't too strong, I bet a 10
MHz uP crystal, a 612 and an audio amp (like a 386 or so) is all you would
need.

A friend of mine did an article on a simple WWV reciever for QRP Homebrewer
recently, issue #5 I think. He was more interested in the frequency
standard than hearing the sounds, so his contribution was recognizing the
zero beat, but still an interesting article if you can find a copy.

...

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:43:07 -0500, "xpyttl"
wrote:

"Tim Shoppa" wrote in message
roups.com...
wrote:
How about a simple one to three transistor regenative reciever.

In principle that's a great idea, but the gotcha is that very near
WWV's 10MHz frequency there are a lot of powerhouse SW broadcasters.

Well, I suppose it depends on where OP is. Here in the middle, 10 MHz isn't
much of a problem but 15 is.

*HOWEVER*, 10 has one huge advantage -- there are very low cost uP crystals
for 10 MHz, so building even a simple reciever with a brick wall front end
isn't such a big deal, if the only frequency you care about is 10 MHz.
Personally, I'd go with a DC rather than a regen - a lot simpler and these
days, a simple SA612 will give you way more sensitivity than you can
possibly use on 10 MHz for a couple bucks. Well, with a crystal filter in
front maybe you will need a little amp, not so sure. But still quite a bit
simpler than a regen. Heck, if the local QRM isn't too strong, I bet a 10
MHz uP crystal, a 612 and an audio amp (like a 386 or so) is all you would
need.

A friend of mine did an article on a simple WWV reciever for QRP Homebrewer
recently, issue #5 I think. He was more interested in the frequency
standard than hearing the sounds, so his contribution was recognizing the
zero beat, but still an interesting article if you can find a copy.


For wwv I consider DC the least useful. One approach I've also tried
is 9.6mhz crystal LO and use 455khz if can retuned to 400khz. that
works and uses fairly easy to get parts. That allows a diode
detector for zero beat against external sources and copy of the audio
without beats.

Allison

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006, John S. wrote:

Are you looking to decode the data transmissions or listen to the voice
signals. If the former it may take something more sophisticated because
you will have to feed a decoder.

I'm interested in both. From the radio perspective, I'll certainly be
happy (but not satisfied) when I am able to hear the station's audio.
However, I was thinking this would be a good project in part because it
leads to the logical extension of decoding the time signals. My plan of
attack is to first try to get the audio, then try inputting it to the
audio input of a PC and writing a program to decode the time signal, and
finally implementing some kind of microprocessor-based decoder.

Tobin Fricke
--
http://web.pas.rochester.edu/~tobin/

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Tim Shoppa wrote:

In principle that's a great idea, but the gotcha is that very near WWV's
10MHz frequency there are a lot of powerhouse SW broadcasters. Here on
the East Coast in the evenings, there are at least 10 SW broadcasters
each of which are 10x more powerful all within +/- 100kHz of 10MHz,
several of them within 10kHz of 10MHz.

What are these high-power shortwave stations on the east coast? I often
wonder what is "out there" these days to tune in.

Tobin

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, xpyttl wrote:

Well, I suppose it depends on where OP is. Here in the middle, 10 MHz isn't
much of a problem but 15 is.

I am in Rochester, NY.

*HOWEVER*, 10 has one huge advantage -- there are very low cost uP crystals
for 10 MHz, so building even a simple reciever with a brick wall front end
isn't such a big deal, if the only frequency you care about is 10 MHz.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. Is there a simple way to do frequency
multiplication (or division) to get 2.5, 5, 15, and 20 MHz additionally,
and thus be able to switch between all of the WWV frequencies?

"Brick wall front end"?

Personally, I'd go with a DC rather than a regen - a lot simpler and these
days, a simple SA612 will give you way more sensitivity than you can
possibly use on 10 MHz for a couple bucks.

Heck, if the local QRM isn't too strong, I bet a 10 MHz uP crystal, a
612 and an audio amp (like a 386 or so) is all you would need.

That sounds great.

A friend of mine did an article on a simple WWV reciever for QRP Homebrewer
recently, issue #5 I think. He was more interested in the frequency
standard than hearing the sounds, so his contribution was recognizing the
zero beat, but still an interesting article if you can find a copy.

I don't see any articles on WWV receivers there... Does anything look
familiar: http://www.njqrp.org/data/qrp_homebrewer.html

thanks,
Tobin Fricke

--
http://web.pas.rochester.edu/~tobin/

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, wrote:

For wwv I consider DC the least useful. One approach I've also tried

What do yo umean by "least useful"?

is 9.6mhz crystal LO and use 455khz if can retuned to 400khz. that
works and uses fairly easy to get parts. That allows a diode
detector for zero beat against external sources and copy of the audio
without beats.

What is the 400 kHz used for?

Tobin Fricke
--
http://web.pas.rochester.edu/~tobin/

Tobin Fricke wrote:


is 9.6mhz crystal LO and use 455khz if can retuned to 400khz. that
works and uses fairly easy to get parts. That allows a diode
detector for zero beat against external sources and copy of the audio
without beats.


What is the 400 kHz used for?

Tobin Fricke

Incoming 10.000 MHz signal with a 9.600 xtal heterodyne oscillator will
create at .400 IF frequency. If you had a 9.545 xtal then a .455 IF
would add up to the 10.000 incoming freq. Six of one, half dozen of the
other. Thats based on an easy to find crystal.

You asked in another reply about the other nearby signals to 10.000.
There's plenty! The 9900-10000 freqs are in common use these days and
there's a few powerhouses. I recall a strong BBC outlet on 9985 I think
it is?

That said, on any receiver worth its salt they should not be an issue.
I have no trouble at all with WWV on 10 Mhz on even simple 1-2 tube
regen rcvrs at my location (KP4). Thats not a recommendation for simple
1-2 tube receivers in as much as to say that overloading is something to
be considered. You might oughta try listening on a real receiver first
to get a feel for the band and general reception capabilities at 10 MHz.
You can get one of those cheapo Chinese digital shortwave radios
nowadays for under $50, non digital for about $15-20. Not only will
they reveal how well WWV/10 is received at your location but you may get
a real-time example of overloading effects as well!


-Bill