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Dead bugs!
I'm going to attempt to build one of my ghost receievers dead bug style. The goal being to take something that I usually mount in an old PC case, and fit it into a cigar box. I've never tried dead bug, or ugly construction, but figure it should be the most spacerous mehtod, and I cany use both side of a board for seperate functions.
As far as my ghost receivers, just remember those proclaiming something is impossible are interupted by someone doing it. Believe it or not, like it or not, the dead talk! This IS the next frontier in electronics! http://franksumption.tripod.com/ I still haven't quite gotten the LNM3820 to work the way I want it to. It works on the bread board, but not on a PCB. Frank |
Dead bugs!
The next frontier? Hell Frank, I built my first Doug DeMaw preamp 30 years
ago "dead bug style"! "Frank" wrote in message ... I'm going to attempt to build one of my ghost receievers dead bug style. The goal being to take something that I usually mount in an old PC case, and fit it into a cigar box. I've never tried dead bug, or ugly construction, but figure it should be the most spacerous mehtod, and I cany use both side of a board for seperate functions. As far as my ghost receivers, just remember those proclaiming something is impossible are interupted by someone doing it. Believe it or not, like it or not, the dead talk! This IS the next frontier in electronics! http://franksumption.tripod.com/ I still haven't quite gotten the LNM3820 to work the way I want it to. It works on the bread board, but not on a PCB. Frank -- Frank |
Dead bugs!
Gosh, you must have been in short trousers then, Ed!
"Ed" wrote in message om... The next frontier? Hell Frank, I built my first Doug DeMaw preamp 30 years ago "dead bug style"! "Frank" wrote in message ... I'm going to attempt to build one of my ghost receievers dead bug style. The goal being to take something that I usually mount in an old PC case, and fit it into a cigar box. I've never tried dead bug, or ugly construction, but figure it should be the most spacerous mehtod, and I cany use both side of a board for seperate functions. As far as my ghost receivers, just remember those proclaiming something is impossible are interupted by someone doing it. Believe it or not, like it or not, the dead talk! This IS the next frontier in electronics! http://franksumption.tripod.com/ I still haven't quite gotten the LNM3820 to work the way I want it to. It works on the bread board, but not on a PCB. Frank -- Frank |
Dead bugs!
Frank wrote:
I'm going to attempt to build one of my ghost receievers dead bug style. The goal being to take something that I usually mount in an old PC case, and fit it into a cigar box. I've never tried dead bug, or ugly construction, but figure it should be the most spacerous mehtod, and I cany use both side of a board for seperate functions. As far as my ghost receivers, just remember those proclaiming something is impossible are interupted by someone doing it. Believe it or not, like it or not, the dead talk! This IS the next frontier in electronics! Well you are in good company, along with Houdini, A.C.Doyle, and Tesla. |
This ain't some simple RF amplifier. I meant that ghost communication, or transdimensional communications, is the next frontier, for those that are brave enough not to listen to the scientists, skeptics, and debunkers that will tell you it's impossible because it scares the crap out of them, or goes against some brain dead theory of how life, and physics is supposed to be.
After six years of working on these projects, you can imagine how many idiots I've encountered that are so sure they know better. Frank |
Dead bugs!
Frank enscribed:
This ain't some simple RF amplifier. I meant that ghost communication, or transdimensional communications, is the next frontier, for those that are brave enough not to listen to the scientists, skeptics, and debunkers that will tell you it's impossible because it scares the crap out of them, or goes against some brain dead theory of how life, and physics is supposed to be. My apologies for missing the start of this thread, but what is it that you are trying to achieve here? If you are looking for some assistance in building a particular circuit I would certainly like to help. I have been a ham for almost four decades, with a strong tilt towards building rather than operating. My experience with the scientific and skeptic community is that they would actually _LOVE_ to see some real evidence of the paranormal, rather than debunking it as a matter of principle. If you have a workable proposition we could take it to JREF, www.randi.org and collect a nice $1million. I would really like to be able to do that. Let me know, 73 Alf NU8I Scottsdale AZ DM43an |
Dead bugs!
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:32:07 +0000, Frank wrote:
As far as my ghost receivers, just remember those proclaiming something is impossible are interupted by someone doing it. Believe it or not, like it or not, the dead talk! Actually, Frank, some of them read the newsgroups too, though most of them seem to prefer the binary porn groups. Good luck! Andy |
Dead bugs!
"Alfred Green" wrote in message
news:JxRLf.6026$z82.3895@fed1read07... My experience with the scientific and skeptic community is that they would actually _LOVE_ to see some real evidence of the paranormal, rather than debunking it as a matter of principle. There is some of that, but woe betides those who let their beliefs cloud interpretation of the results. Skeptics and scientists remain first and foremost skeptics and scientists. It would have to be very compelling to even pass a first scrutiny. |
The fact is I get voices of mostly an unknown origin that are surely not broadcast, and radio fragments, often they call me by name, first and last. I have a site with some examples
http://franksumption.tripod.com/ on top of the home page is a list of links, these are pages in the site, most of which are voices received on my ghost box, some intelligible, some not so much. On the schematics page I put up photos of this fisrt dead bug board I made. The object of that being to reduce the number of baords in the system so I can use a smaller cabinet. What you say about scientists/skeptics is untrue. There is absolutely overwhelming evidence out there that would probably stand up in a any court for the existence iof paranormal activity, and it's almost completely ignored by the scientists, and lied about by the skeptics/debunkers. It's been my experince the scientists that say they would love to see the evidence are looking with thier eyes closed! Then claim they didn't see anything. Not only does this system let me record voices of what seem to be spirits, they will speak direct while the system is running via the monitor speaker. This point of this whole discussion, I guess, was hoping for interested parties, and sharing information. The system I've made is a method of developing a random audio source, which the spirits/entities use to form their voices. It works like white noise used for EVP, but the result is much louder, and clearer voices. White noise, and my system work on some kind of random energy principal. It's the randomness that seems to allow spirits to get their voices across. Frank |
Quote:
Okay, I tried Dead Bug construtcion, and it seems it is absolutly wortheless for complicated circuits. Most the hams I see pushing this method are only using a couple components, try it with about 50, and see how well it works---NOT. I made two of my systems with it, and an amp, all are crappy!! Frank |
Dead bugs!
Frank wrote: Frank Wrote: I'm going to attempt to build one of my ghost receievers dead bug style. The goal being to take something that I usually mount in an old PC case, and fit it into a cigar box. I've never tried dead bug, or ugly construction, but figure it should be the most spacerous mehtod, and I cany use both side of a board for seperate functions. As far as my ghost receivers, just remember those proclaiming something is impossible are interupted by someone doing it. Believe it or not, like it or not, the dead talk! This IS the next frontier in electronics! http://franksumption.tripod.com/ I still haven't quite gotten the LNM3820 to work the way I want it to. It works on the bread board, but not on a PCB. Frank Okay, I tried Dead Bug construtcion, and it seems it is absolutly wortheless for complicated circuits. Most the hams I see pushing this method are only using a couple components, try it with about 50, and see how well it works---NOT. I made two of my systems with it, and an amp, all are crappy!! I wouldn't even consider it for anything at all complex, although it might not be too bad if you split the circuit into smaller modules rather than trying to get everything on one board. I prefer what could be called 'live bug' construction, with the chips the right way up. I have a good home PCB process, so I tend to use that these days. Perhaps the ghosts from your dead bugs are causing interference. 8-) 73, Leon |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
I just got a very good "homebrew" PCB process set up using gloss photo paper
printed in a laser printer ironed onto the board for the resist and muriatic acid / hydrogen peroxide for the etchant. Is this the way you are making boards? Jim I have a good home PCB process, so I tend to use that these days. Perhaps the ghosts from your dead bugs are causing interference. 8-) 73, Leon |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
RST Engineering wrote: I just got a very good "homebrew" PCB process set up using gloss photo paper printed in a laser printer ironed onto the board for the resist and muriatic acid / hydrogen peroxide for the etchant. Is this the way you are making boards? No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks. Leon |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Leon wrote:
No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks. ========================= Leon , How do you dispose of spent ferichloride? Do you take it to the local Council waste yard ? Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Highland Ham wrote: Leon wrote: No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks. ========================= Leon , How do you dispose of spent ferichloride? Do you take it to the local Council waste yard ? Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH I just flush it down the toilet. I think that ferric chloride is used for water treatment and I can't see the small amount of copper doing any harm by the time it has been diluted millions of times. It's only a litre ot so every six months - it's negligible. 73, Leon |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:28:45 -0700, Leon wrote:
No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks. Leon Do you use the inkjet to print directly on transparent film? Is the contrast/opacity good enough or do you need to stack two or more sheets? I use a laser printer and OHP film. Even with the toner density set to maximum, I find I need to use two sheets of film for best results. 73, Ed. EI9GQ. -- Linux 2.6.16 Remove 'X' to reply by e-mail. Yes, my username really is: nospam |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
In article .com,
Leon wrote: I just flush it down the toilet. I think that ferric chloride is used for water treatment and I can't see the small amount of copper doing any harm by the time it has been diluted millions of times. It's only a litre ot so every six months - it's negligible. By the time you dump it in this way, you aren't dumping pure ferric chloride by any means! You're dumping a residual amount of ferric chloride, plus a bunch of copper chloride. The waste-treatment authorities in this area are very much against having soluble copper dumped into the sewage system. The copper eventually ends up in San Francisco Bay (after having caused some amount of interference to the biological sewage-digestion/treatment system). Multiplied by a large number of potential sources, the copper load can have an injurious effect on the Bay ecosystem... it's toxic to algae and to many other natural microorganisms. This problem can be prevented, quite easily, by simply titrating some sodium hydroxide (lye) or sodium carbonate (washing soda, soda ash) into the exhausted etchant. It may bubble a bit, with the bubbling ceasing as the pH rises to the point of being mildly alkaline (pH of 7 to 8... use pH paper to monitor). The copper remaining in the solution will precipitate out as an insoluble solid. Allow it to settle and pour off the remaining liquid... MG says that the liquid can now be poured down the toilet safely. The solid (copper hydroxide or copper carbonate, I believe) should be disposed of according to local requirements. I've used the same precipitate-with-soda-ash trick when using sodium monopersulphate as an etchant (it's surely work with the somewhat faster-acting ammonium persulphate). It's quite striking in this case... the clear blue-green copper-loaded etchant turns a milky green, the precipitate settles out, and you're left with a clear near-colorless liquid which contains little or no copper. I've heard of people disposing of copper-loaded used etchant by mixing in some Portland cement powder. This raises the pH, converts the copper to an insoluble form, and then binds it into (in effect) solid rock which can be disposed of in a landfill without causing significant leaching of copper. The same trick could no doubt be used to solidify the precipitated copper from a lye or soda-ash neutralization of spent etchant. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
On Sun, 28 May 2006 05:29:21 -0700, Leon wrote:
I print directly on special JetStar film, from Mega Electronics in the UK. Opacity is fine. Thanks for the tip. I never found OHP film much good when I used a laser printer, I used to use LaserStar film or tracing paper. The latter is fine for most boards and very cheap. Leon I get very good results with Staedtler Lumocolor film and a HP 1200 dpi laser. The UV light source is a 500W halogen floodlight. 73, Ed. EI9GQ. -- Linux 2.6.16 Remove 'X' to reply by e-mail. Yes, my username really is: nospam |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Dave Platt wrote:
In article .com, Leon wrote: I just flush it down the toilet. I think that ferric chloride is used for water treatment and I can't see the small amount of copper doing any harm by the time it has been diluted millions of times. It's only a litre ot so every six months - it's negligible. By the time you dump it in this way, you aren't dumping pure ferric chloride by any means! You're dumping a residual amount of ferric chloride, plus a bunch of copper chloride. The waste-treatment authorities in this area are very much against having soluble copper dumped into the sewage system. The copper eventually ends up in San Francisco Bay (after having caused some amount of interference to the biological sewage-digestion/treatment system). Multiplied by a large number of potential sources, the copper load can have an injurious effect on the Bay ecosystem... it's toxic to algae and to many other natural microorganisms. This problem can be prevented, quite easily, by simply titrating some sodium hydroxide (lye) or sodium carbonate (washing soda, soda ash) into the exhausted etchant. It may bubble a bit, with the bubbling ceasing as the pH rises to the point of being mildly alkaline (pH of 7 to 8... use pH paper to monitor). The copper remaining in the solution will precipitate out as an insoluble solid. Allow it to settle and pour off the remaining liquid... MG says that the liquid can now be poured down the toilet safely. The solid (copper hydroxide or copper carbonate, I believe) should be disposed of according to local requirements. I've used the same precipitate-with-soda-ash trick when using sodium monopersulphate as an etchant (it's surely work with the somewhat faster-acting ammonium persulphate). It's quite striking in this case... the clear blue-green copper-loaded etchant turns a milky green, the precipitate settles out, and you're left with a clear near-colorless liquid which contains little or no copper. I've heard of people disposing of copper-loaded used etchant by mixing in some Portland cement powder. This raises the pH, converts the copper to an insoluble form, and then binds it into (in effect) solid rock which can be disposed of in a landfill without causing significant leaching of copper. The same trick could no doubt be used to solidify the precipitated copper from a lye or soda-ash neutralization of spent etchant. I've also heard of putting steel wool into spent ferric chloride etchant, which I think gets the copper out in a metallic form and probably replaces it with iron. Whether that would be better I don't know. Chris |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Since ferric chloride is another name for iron chloride, I'm not sure how
that would work, since there is already an abundance of iron in the solution, but I've never tried it so I'm not going to say it won't work. However, I'd like to hear from somebody who HAS tried it, for better or for worse. Jim I've also heard of putting steel wool into spent ferric chloride etchant, which I think gets the copper out in a metallic form and probably replaces it with iron. Whether that would be better I don't know. Chris |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Dave Platt wrote: In article .com, Leon wrote: I just flush it down the toilet. I think that ferric chloride is used for water treatment and I can't see the small amount of copper doing any harm by the time it has been diluted millions of times. It's only a litre ot so every six months - it's negligible. By the time you dump it in this way, you aren't dumping pure ferric chloride by any means! You're dumping a residual amount of ferric chloride, plus a bunch of copper chloride. Small quantities are acceptable, here in the UK. Leon |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
On Sat, 27 May 2006 09:39:04 -0700, "RST Engineering"
wrote: I just got a very good "homebrew" PCB process set up using gloss photo paper printed in a laser printer ironed onto the board for the resist and muriatic acid / hydrogen peroxide for the etchant. Is this the way you are making boards? Jim Hello Jim I use a similar setup to make boards all the time and it works reasonably well. No 8mil tracks tho. I just discovered some paper and haven't tried to see how small I can make the traces yet. I've been pretty sick for a few months and just haven't felt like messing with it. The one board I did make using it had much sharper defined edges and the drill guide holes etched nicely also with no residue left on the board. I never did find any photo paper that didn't leave the residue that needed cleaned off especially in the 25mil drill guide holes. The paper is made by Pulsar and is Digi-Key P/N 182-1003-ND. If you want to try it get the "GreenTRF" film to go with it, P/N 182-1021-ND. The GreenTRF film is just applied over the toner after it is transfered from the paper and leaves the image on the board completely sealed with a glossy green finish. I believe the paper was about $1 per 8.5x11 sheet and I don't remember how much the "GreenTRF" cost me, but it wasn't much for an 8in by 15ft piece. I was making enough boards that I got myself a press designed for making T-shirts. Actually my wife got tired of me complaining about having to press so hard with the iron and bought it for me. It allows me to set the temperature and the clamping force precisely and repeatably, and it works great for transfering the image to the board. The press was kinda pricey, I think she paid about $300 for it. Now that's true love! I've been using ammonium persulfate for etchant and just picked up some peroxide and acid so I can try making my own etchant. I have a drill stand for my Dremel Moto-tool that was made by Dremel that I use for drilling the boards. I use a #10 Opti-Visor and have no trouble drilling the boards even with my pathetic eyesight. The etched drill guide holes in the center of the pads really helps hitting the holes dead center. With just a little care drills will last until they get dull. As a matter of fact the only time I break one is when I get careless trying to go too fast. I'm feeling pretty good this afternoon, so I think I'll try making a board with a test pattern to see how fine I can get my tracks. If I can run a track between 0.1" spaced pads and I'll be happy. I think you'll like with your setup after you get the hang of doing it. Mike |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
"Leon" wrote in message ups.com... Eamon Skelton wrote: On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:28:45 -0700, Leon wrote: No, I use conventional UV exposure and FeCl3. With artwork printed on an inkjet printer I can reliably do 8 mil tracks. Leon Do you use the inkjet to print directly on transparent film? Is the contrast/opacity good enough or do you need to stack two or more sheets? I print directly on special JetStar film, from Mega Electronics in the UK. Opacity is fine. I use a laser printer and OHP film. Even with the toner density set to maximum, I find I need to use two sheets of film for best results. I never found OHP film much good when I used a laser printer, I used to use LaserStar film or tracing paper. The latter is fine for most boards and very cheap. Leon Yes. Tracing paper/greaseproof paper seems distinctly better than clear film. Bit queer, as I'd have thought the 'frosted-glass' finish would have dispersed the UV light, much the same way as there still being daylight after the sun has set. Maybe clear OHP film happily allows UV to bounce around within the film thickness. Last week did some quickie SOT23 to DIL adapters. Samsung ML-2250 laser, 600dpi. Single sheet. Very nice results. john |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Hello Jim I use a similar setup to make boards all the time and it works reasonably well. No 8mil tracks tho. 15 mils is easy. 10 mils with some care. Below that, no promises. The paper is made by Pulsar and is Digi-Key P/N 182-1003-ND. If you want to try it get the "GreenTRF" film to go with it, P/N 182-1021-ND. The GreenTRF film is just applied over the toner after it is transfered from the paper and leaves the image on the board completely sealed with a glossy green finish. I believe the paper was about $1 per 8.5x11 sheet and I don't remember how much the "GreenTRF" cost me, but it wasn't much for an 8in by 15ft piece. I use the glossy photo basic paper from Staples, or Costco, or Sam's Club, or whatever branded private label -- it works better than the "premium" variety photo paper for whatever reason. It all seems to work the same. The trick is to use copper-brite scouring powder made specifically for copper and brass along with one of those green dish scouring pads to clean and microscratch the bejabbers out of the board before applying the resist. It also helps to preheat the board for about 5 minutes at 150F in a toaster oven after cleaning but before ironing on the resist. I've been using ammonium persulfate for etchant and just picked up some peroxide and acid so I can try making my own etchant. I've used ferric chloride, ammonium persulfate, and muriatic acid - hydrogen peroxide and I MUCH prefer the muriatic-peroxide combination. What I have NOT perfected in the etch process yet is a method of agitation for the etchant. Right now I'm using an aquarium with an air pump and a "bubbling stone", but would love to find another method. Perhaps I'll work on a magnet with shrink sleeving and RTV to seal the ends and another magnet on a motor underneath the aquarium bottom. That seems like a lot of hassle for a simple agitation, but I haven't found a better way. I have a drill stand for my Dremel Moto-tool that was made by Dremel that I use for drilling the boards. I use a #10 Opti-Visor and have no trouble drilling the boards even with my pathetic eyesight. The etched drill guide holes in the center of the pads really helps hitting the holes dead center. With just a little care drills will last until they get dull. As a matter of fact the only time I break one is when I get careless trying to go too fast. The school I teach for has a half dozen good PCB drills, so I'm not yet forced into that corner. I've also got a BIG pcb shop down the hill a bit, and they throw away carbide drills by the sackful. I've gotten them to throw a few sacks my way. Jim |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
15 mils is easy. 10 mils with some care. Below that, no promises. I believe it'll take a 10mil track to go between 63mil pads of a dip pkg, so it'll be close. I use the glossy photo basic paper from Staples, or Costco, or Sam's Club, or whatever branded private label -- it works better than the "premium" variety photo paper for whatever reason. It all seems to work the same. The trick is to use copper-brite scouring powder made specifically for copper and brass along with one of those green dish scouring pads to clean and microscratch the bejabbers out of the board before applying the resist. It also helps to preheat the board for about 5 minutes at 150F in a toaster oven after cleaning but before ironing on the resist. I better go find me some copper-brite. I've been using comet. I've used ferric chloride, ammonium persulfate, and muriatic acid - hydrogen peroxide and I MUCH prefer the muriatic-peroxide combination. What I have NOT perfected in the etch process yet is a method of agitation for the etchant. Right now I'm using an aquarium with an air pump and a "bubbling stone", but would love to find another method. Perhaps I'll work on a magnet with shrink sleeving and RTV to seal the ends and another magnet on a motor underneath the aquarium bottom. That seems like a lot of hassle for a simple agitation, but I haven't found a better way. Yeah, the persulfate is way too slow without a catalyst even when heated and agitated, and ferric chloride is just too messy. Is it really necessary to mix up the peroxide/acid for each session? Could it be poured back into an airtight dark jug? I too thought about the magnet stirrer. I just wonder if the magnets would really setup any circulation in the tank. The school I teach for has a half dozen good PCB drills, so I'm not yet forced into that corner. I've also got a BIG pcb shop down the hill a bit, and they throw away carbide drills by the sackful. I've gotten them to throw a few sacks my way. No such luck in my garage. Jim |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
The peroxide has oxidized to oxygen and water within half an hour after
mixing, so all you really have is some diluted muriatic acid after each session. Besides, for $2 in chemistry, you can have an etched board. Jim "Mike" wrote in message ... Is it really necessary to mix up the peroxide/acid for each session? Could it be poured back into an airtight dark jug? |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
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Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
RST Engineering wrote:
Since ferric chloride is another name for iron chloride, I'm not sure how that would work, since there is already an abundance of iron in the solution, but I've never tried it so I'm not going to say it won't work. However, I'd like to hear from somebody who HAS tried it, for better or for worse. Jim I've also heard of putting steel wool into spent ferric chloride etchant, which I think gets the copper out in a metallic form and probably replaces it with iron. Whether that would be better I don't know. Chris It's possible that I have confused myself and it might have been spent ammonium persulfate etchant instead, that the steel wool was to be put into. I don't enough about chemistry to say which would make more sense. The one thing I have learnt about etchant is: Don't store ammonium persulfate etchant in a sealed (airtight) container. My bottle of etchant burst and went everywhere. Chris |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Chris Jones wrote:
I've also heard of putting steel wool into spent ferric chloride etchant, which I think gets the copper out in a metallic form and probably replaces it with iron. Whether that would be better I don't know. I recall hearing this method used for recovering silver from spent photographic developer. |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
"John Jardine." wrote:
Yes. Tracing paper/greaseproof paper seems distinctly better than clear film. Bit queer, as I'd have thought the 'frosted-glass' finish would have dispersed the UV light, much the same way as there still being daylight after the sun has set. Maybe clear OHP film happily allows UV to bounce around within the film thickness. We had the same problem making holograms. The film was temporarily stuck to a glass plate with a thin layer of naptha. Under certain conditions the light would bounce around inside the glass like an optical fiber leaving unwanted tracks on the film. Last week did some quickie SOT23 to DIL adapters. Samsung ML-2250 laser, 600dpi. Single sheet. Very nice results. john |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
"John Jardine." wrote:
Yes. Tracing paper/greaseproof paper seems distinctly better than clear film. Bit queer, as I'd have thought the 'frosted-glass' finish would have dispersed the UV light, much the same way as there still being daylight after the sun has set. Maybe clear OHP film happily allows UV to bounce around within the film thickness. We had the same problem making holograms. The film was temporarily stuck to a glass plate with a thin layer of naptha. Under certain conditions the light would bounce around inside the glass like an optical fiber leaving unwanted tracks on the film. Last week did some quickie SOT23 to DIL adapters. Samsung ML-2250 laser, 600dpi. Single sheet. Very nice results. john |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
"RST Engineering" wrote in
: Hello Jim I use a similar setup to make boards all the time and it works reasonably well. No 8mil tracks tho. 15 mils is easy. 10 mils with some care. Below that, no promises. The paper is made by Pulsar and is Digi-Key P/N 182-1003-ND. If you want to try it get the "GreenTRF" film to go with it, P/N 182-1021-ND. The GreenTRF film is just applied over the toner after it is transfered from the paper and leaves the image on the board completely sealed with a glossy green finish. I believe the paper was about $1 per 8.5x11 sheet and I don't remember how much the "GreenTRF" cost me, but it wasn't much for an 8in by 15ft piece. I use the glossy photo basic paper from Staples, or Costco, or Sam's Club, or whatever branded private label -- it works better than the "premium" variety photo paper for whatever reason. It all seems to work the same. The trick is to use copper-brite scouring powder made specifically for copper and brass along with one of those green dish scouring pads to clean and microscratch the bejabbers out of the board before applying the resist. It also helps to preheat the board for about 5 minutes at 150F in a toaster oven after cleaning but before ironing on the resist. I've been using ammonium persulfate for etchant and just picked up some peroxide and acid so I can try making my own etchant. I've used ferric chloride, ammonium persulfate, and muriatic acid - hydrogen peroxide and I MUCH prefer the muriatic-peroxide combination. What I have NOT perfected in the etch process yet is a method of agitation for the etchant. Right now I'm using an aquarium with an air pump and a "bubbling stone", but would love to find another method. Perhaps I'll work on a magnet with shrink sleeving and RTV to seal the ends and another magnet on a motor underneath the aquarium bottom. That seems like a lot of hassle for a simple agitation, but I haven't found a better way. I have a drill stand for my Dremel Moto-tool that was made by Dremel that I use for drilling the boards. I use a #10 Opti-Visor and have no trouble drilling the boards even with my pathetic eyesight. The etched drill guide holes in the center of the pads really helps hitting the holes dead center. With just a little care drills will last until they get dull. As a matter of fact the only time I break one is when I get careless trying to go too fast. The school I teach for has a half dozen good PCB drills, so I'm not yet forced into that corner. I've also got a BIG pcb shop down the hill a bit, and they throw away carbide drills by the sackful. I've gotten them to throw a few sacks my way. Jim For etchant I find that CuCl2 and HCl work very nice -- and it is especially advantagous to agitate by bubbling air thru the solution since not only does it agitate but the oxygen in the air helps regenerate the CuCl2 in situ. You can continue to bubble air thru it after the etching is done to completely regenerate the etchant. The reactions: Etching: CuCl2 + Cu - 2CuCl Regenerating: 4(CuCl) + O2 + 4HCl - 4(CuCl2) + 2(H2O) Dr. G. |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
I appreciate the information but note that:
a. I cannot send my students/readers down to Home Depot to pick up a pound of copper chloride along with the muriatic (swimming pool grout etch) acid. b. Now I've got a couple of gallons of etchant to keep around the lab in a proper container for the next go-around. BTW, what is the color of the CuCl2 and the HCl mixed together? Jim "Dr. Grok" wrote in message news:doqfg.11456$ho6.769@trnddc07... For etchant I find that CuCl2 and HCl work very nice -- and it is especially advantagous to agitate by bubbling air thru the solution since not only does it agitate but the oxygen in the air helps regenerate the CuCl2 in situ. You can continue to bubble air thru it after the etching is done to completely regenerate the etchant. The reactions: Etching: CuCl2 + Cu - 2CuCl Regenerating: 4(CuCl) + O2 + 4HCl - 4(CuCl2) + 2(H2O) Dr. G. |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
On 29 May 2006 01:54:56 -0700, "Leon"
wrote: Dave Platt wrote: In article .com, Leon wrote: I just flush it down the toilet. I think that ferric chloride is used for water treatment and I can't see the small amount of copper doing any harm by the time it has been diluted millions of times. It's only a litre ot so every six months - it's negligible. By the time you dump it in this way, you aren't dumping pure ferric chloride by any means! You're dumping a residual amount of ferric chloride, plus a bunch of copper chloride. Small quantities are acceptable, here in the UK. Leon A book I read a long time back recommended mixing spent solution with concrete powder and sending the resulting brick to the dump. Seems like one of the best ideas I have heard of if you really care about possible impacts. |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
RST Engineering wrote: I appreciate the information but note that: a. I cannot send my students/readers down to Home Depot to pick up a pound of copper chloride along with the muriatic (swimming pool grout etch) acid. b. Now I've got a couple of gallons of etchant to keep around the lab in a proper container for the next go-around. BTW, what is the color of the CuCl2 and the HCl mixed together? If you start off with HCl and H2O2, you get CuCl2. You don't need to actually buy the stuff, it gradually becomes more concentrated with use. Some form of chemical titration is needed with CuCl2 to ensure that the concentration is correct and that it has the right pH. Leon |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
On 1 Jun 2006 02:16:48 -0700, "Leon"
wrote: RST Engineering wrote: I appreciate the information but note that: a. I cannot send my students/readers down to Home Depot to pick up a pound of copper chloride along with the muriatic (swimming pool grout etch) acid. b. Now I've got a couple of gallons of etchant to keep around the lab in a proper container for the next go-around. BTW, what is the color of the CuCl2 and the HCl mixed together? If you start off with HCl and H2O2, you get CuCl2. You don't need to actually buy the stuff, it gradually becomes more concentrated with use. Some form of chemical titration is needed with CuCl2 to ensure that the concentration is correct and that it has the right pH. Maybe this will help if you want to try... http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
Excellent. I gotta get me a copy of that out of print book.
Jim Maybe this will help if you want to try... http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html |
Home PCB (Was: Dead Bug)
"RST Engineering" wrote in
: I appreciate the information but note that: a. I cannot send my students/readers down to Home Depot to pick up a pound of copper chloride along with the muriatic (swimming pool grout etch) acid. Send them to HD to get some CuSO4.5H2O [Root killer Zep is one brand] and some CaCl2 [Damp Rid (or in the winter: ice melter)] Make a solution of each [equal molar amounts for each chemical] and mix. Let it sit overnite. The white precipitate is CaSO4 [Plaster of Paris] and the Blue-green solution on top is the CuCl2 solution. Best to filter that to remove any remaining CaSO4. Now you have your starting supply of CuCl2 and as you can see from the equations you create more of it as you etch. If you get too much offer it to another ham to get him/her started. b. Now I've got a couple of gallons of etchant to keep around the lab in a proper container for the next go-around. BTW, what is the color of the CuCl2 and the HCl mixed together? A very bright green. When it turns a dirty olive green you know it has too much CuCl so start bubbling air thru until its bright green again. Jim "Dr. Grok" wrote in message news:doqfg.11456$ho6.769@trnddc07... For etchant I find that CuCl2 and HCl work very nice -- and it is especially advantagous to agitate by bubbling air thru the solution since not only does it agitate but the oxygen in the air helps regenerate the CuCl2 in situ. You can continue to bubble air thru it after the etching is done to completely regenerate the etchant. The reactions: Etching: CuCl2 + Cu - 2CuCl Regenerating: 4(CuCl) + O2 + 4HCl - 4(CuCl2) + 2(H2O) Dr. G. |
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