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What makes a person become a Ham?
The ARS numbers Feb 2008 thread got me to thinking, when the topic
started shifting toward who knows about what relating to Ham radio. I think it is pretty fair to say that the ARS will never be a mainstream hobby or avocation. I really don't think that that is even a good idea, after some thought. For myself, I am a inveterate tinkerer, and love to build things. My license allows me to legally access some pretty high powered stuff and work on the same. My path to the fold was in looking at ways to apply amateur radio to my other hobby, Amateur astronomy. Funny though, the Ham radio took over, and is now my main hobby, I never did apply it to astronmomy. What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
What makes a person become a Ham?
Michael Coslo wrote:
I think it is pretty fair to say that the ARS will never be a mainstream hobby or avocation. I really don't think that that is even a good idea, after some thought. It's much like other hobbies -- there are people who enjoy collecting stamps or snapping pictures, but these aren't "mainstream" either. There will always be competition for peoples' spare time, and ham radio is one of the things that people can enjoy in their spare time. What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? I would certainly like to see some of those ideas. I think my path into ham radio was fairly typical for the 60's -- I got interested in radio and electronics, had a friend who had similar interests, and ham radio was a good fit. Not only did it provide a way to learn about electronics but it got me introduced to many people who I would never have met otherwise. I suspect that my analog in the current generation pursues a similar interest via their computer. There's an interesting correlation between meeting people at the club meeting and on the air, versus meeting them via the Yahoo Group, the chat room, or via online game playing. My path back into ham radio was via the public-service aspect. When I retired and moved to a place where I could participate in the hobby, I got back on the air and tried several aspects of the hobby -- NTS, contests, DX, general ragchewing. None of them really caught my fancy, for various reasons. Then I ended up in Mississippi in the Katrina effort and that activity did capture my interest. Since then my ham-radio activity has been primarily related to public service and emergency communication. I'm not suggesting that this is the only way to recruit people into the hobby or that it's the only segment of the hobby that's worth anything. It's MY primary interest, and if other folks enjoy DX or contests or whatever, that's wonderful. Different people enjoy different things, which is one of the great things about ham radio -- it's many different hobbies, all rolled up into one. The difficulty is selling this to the general public. 73, Steve KB9X |
What makes a person become a Ham?
On Feb 27, 9:00 am, Michael Coslo wrote:
What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? From as far back as I can remember, I was interested in technology - how things worked and what they could do. The kind of kid who's always asking questions, taking things apart and putting them together, etc. I found electricity particularly interesting. This interest was aided and abetted by reading everything I could get my hands on. Libraries and bookstores were special places to me. I did the usual Erector-set and battery/flashlight bulb stuff at a very young age. Then at about age 10 I found a book called "All About Radio and Television" which explained the basics of radio and how to build a simple radio using a razor-blade-and-pencil-graphite detector. I built one, strung a wire out to the crabapple tree in the back yard, and heard WPEN. I was hooked. The book also mentioned various kinds of radio besides broadcast radio and TV. Of greatest interest to me was something called "amateur radio", where ordinary people of all ages and all walks of life had their own radio stations that they used to communicate with each other over great distances. Also of interest was "shortwave broadcasting" which came from other countries. Nobody in my family was a ham, nor were any of my neighbors. None of them knew any hams, either. Not much detail on amateur radio was given in "All About Radio and Television", but I knew where to look for more info - other books. Soon I had a much clearer picture of what amateur radio and shortwave radio were all about. First order of business was to get a receiver in order to listen to "hams" and shortwave stations, so I built one based on information in the various books. It was a simple two-tube regenerative set, made mostly from salvaged parts. It wasn't the best receiver in the world but it worked well enough for me to hear BBC, Radio Moscow, the Voice of America - and "hams"! I wanted to talk to those folks! The books explained that being a ham required earning an FCC license, so I set about doing that. I learned Morse Code by listening to hams use it on the air, and theory from the books and by building and improving the receiver. By the time I was 12 I figured I knew enough to pass the Novice test, so I set out to find a local ham who would be a volunteer examiner for me. I located one by the antenna in his yard, and he referred me to another amateur who did the tests. I passed on the first go and built a simple transmitter while waiting for the license to arrive from FCC. Which it did on October 14, 1967. I went on the air and began making contacts. It wasn't easy with the equipment I had and my basic skills, so I learned to be a better operator and how to build better equipment. Now it's more than 40 years later and it's as much fun to me as ever. What attracted me was the idea of building my own radio station and using it to communicate with like-minded folks all over the world. That the results were random and unpredictable only added to the attraction. I didn't think radio was "magic" or "mysterious", just a lot of fun. A big factor in the attraction was the attitude expressed in the books. None of them said learning radio, getting a license or building equipment was difficult. None said a ham had to be older than a certain age, have a certain income, education or IQ level, be of a certain gender or ethnicity, etc. The required math, physics, chemistry and electricity, and Morse code, weren't presented as obstacles; just stuff that anybody could learn. The whole process was and is a lot of fun. A challenge, not a "hoop" or a "barrier". None touted amateur radio as a replacement for other communication methods or as a social community, though they did mention the public- service aspect. Sure, there was no internet back then in the 1960s, no iPods, cell phones or video games, etc. But we had radio and TV, long distance telephones, music, movies, etc. Amateur radio wasn't a replacement for those things, it was fun in itself. IMHO the way to "sell" amateur radio isn't to present it as a replacement for something else, but as a unique activity with many facets. Some will get it, others won't, no big deal. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
"Steve Bonine" wrote in message
... Michael Coslo wrote: What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? I would certainly like to see some of those ideas. Our Section Manager came up with a great idea. We have a very successful youth group in the far reaches of the state. There are, of course, a number of other amateur radio youth groups around the state, having varying levels of success. In April, we are going to gather kids from all these groups together, ply them with pop and pizza, a have them tell us what it was that attracted them, and what we could do better. What better way to figure out how to attract new hams than by asking the new hams themselves, and especially the young ones who we need, and who are likely to be more open than their older counterparts. By the way, that successful group out in the boonies has started another chapter in the state, and yet another in a neighboring state. They're doing something the kids lke. ... |
What makes a person become a Ham?
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What makes a person become a Ham?
In article ,
wrote: From as far back as I can remember, I was interested in technology - how things worked and what they could do. The kind of kid who's always asking questions, taking things apart and putting them together, etc. I found electricity particularly interesting. Same here. Nobody in my family was a ham, nor were any of my neighbors. None of I had an uncle living some distance away, who sent me an old ARRL Handbook that I loved to flip through, more looking at the pictures than reading the text, thinking how neat it was to be able to build stuff like that. Also there was long ago a radio section in Popular Mechanics with construction articles. And the days when just about every family had a radio receiver that would get shortwave as well as broadcast band. What attracted me was the idea of building my own radio station and using it to communicate with like-minded folks all over the world. That the results were random and unpredictable only added to the attraction. I didn't think radio was "magic" or "mysterious", just a lot of fun. I guess I was that way too - it's only fairly recently that I have come to realize it is almost magic that you put a few watts of RF into an antenna, and the energy is radiated out into space, and induces a tiny signal in every conductor it passes, and if that conductor is an antenna then the tiny signal is enough to amplify and detect and use for communication. I know another thing that pushed me along was RTTY - I had always been fascinated by Teletype machines, and when I learned that hams could have them and use them to communicate I was really excited. Without that extra push I might have delayed getting a ham license, or maybe just continued as an electronics experimenter and SWL. Jim, W6JVE |
What makes a person become a Ham?
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What makes a person become a Ham?
On Feb 27, 3:35 pm, Klystron wrote:
I never suggested that Morse code was an obstacle because it was too hard. I have known any number of people who were put off by Morse, myself included, because it was archaic and unrelated to electronics. I have worked in the electronics field and I have met any number of people who knew a substantial amount about electronics in general, as well as ham radio, but were not hams. They often mentioned Morse when asked why that was. That's fine, people have all sorts of reasons for not being hams. However, Morse Code is *not* archaic, and *is* related to amateur radio, because hams do use it extensively - today, right now. If you can look at it objectively (I realize that it is an emotionally charged subject), you cannot make a plausible claim that there is anything inherent to radio or electronics about Morse. Morse is a linguistic construct, like a semaphore flag code, that was devised in order to enable communications using a device that was incapable of transmitting voice. That's one reason for it. But even after voice radio was invented, Morse code use in radio continued, because it has certain advantages over other modes. It is as if prospective hams were told that before they could be allowed to handle electronic gear, RF emissions and high voltages, they first had to learn how the ancient Egyptians wrote with hieroglyphics. Then, they would have to write a page of hieroglyphics themselves and then read a page that someone else had written. Sorry, that's not a convincing analogy, because nobody uses Egyptian hieroglyphics in amateur radio - and they never did. But Morse Code was and is used in amateur radio. That's a big difference. Knowing Egyptian hieroglyphics doesn't help one with amateur radio operation, but knowing Morse Code sure does! IMHO a better analogy is this: Suppose that all drivers had to demonstrate the ability to drive a car (in first gear, at 5 mph) with a manual transmission in order to get a driver's license, even if they only intended to drive automatic-transmission cars (which far outnumber manual-transmission cars today). If you think that that is absurd and that hieroglyphics have nothing to do with radio and that you would not be willing to waste your time on such a pointless and irrelevant digression, then you understand the frustration of electronics enthusiasts with the old system and with those who embraced it. See above. Morse Code has a lot to do with amateur radio. Whether that means it should have its own special must-pass-to-get-a-license test is a completely different matter. And it's been settled by FCC. As far as the difficulty is concerned, I went from SWL to Amateur Extra in 9 weeks (3 separate test sessions, 3 weeks of studying per test). After leaving the material for about a month, I resumed studying and obtained a General Radiotelephone Operators License with a Radar Endorsement in about another month. I felt that the entirety of the material, on all six tests, amounted to the equivalent of about a semester of General Chemistry. I went from Novice in 1967 to Technician and Advanced in 1968, then to Extra in 1970. In those days there was a 2 year experience-as-a-General-or-Advanced requirement to even try the Extra exam. I never thought the exams were very difficult if someone knew a bit about the subject. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message [snip] : : What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that : : to attract or identify and attract new blood? : : : : - 73 de Mike N3LI - I'm not ashamed to admit it, I came into the hobby from CB. Some friends had formed a CB club back in the early 80's just when CB became legal here in the UK (sadly using different frequencies and FM rather than AM as in the US) but we soon realised its limitations and when a few of them became licensed I was quick to join them. Just celebrated my 25th anniversary, licensed on 21 February 1983 :-) 73 Ivor G6URP |
What makes a person become a Ham?
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... The ARS numbers Feb 2008 thread got me to thinking, when the topic started shifting toward who knows about what relating to Ham radio. I think it is pretty fair to say that the ARS will never be a mainstream hobby or avocation. I really don't think that that is even a good idea, after some thought. For myself, I am a inveterate tinkerer, and love to build things. My license allows me to legally access some pretty high powered stuff and work on the same. My path to the fold was in looking at ways to apply amateur radio to my other hobby, Amateur astronomy. Funny though, the Ham radio took over, and is now my main hobby, I never did apply it to astronmomy. What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? - 73 de Mike N3LI - I don't think my path will be very useful to use as a tool. My second husband dragged me to a class with the comment "Let's do this together". Dee, N8UZE |
What makes a person become a Ham?
Michael Coslo wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:00:40 EST:
I think it is pretty fair to say that the ARS will never be a mainstream hobby or avocation. I really don't think that that is even a good idea, after some thought. You managed to get that sentence approved by the moderators?!? :-) My path to the fold was in looking at ways to apply amateur radio to my other hobby, Amateur astronomy. Funny though, the Ham radio took over, and is now my main hobby, I never did apply it to astronmomy. Back in the 1960s, my lead man at Electro-Optical Systems was both a technician class licensee and a very hands-on telescope maker. He had ground his own 6" mirror for the telescope he was using and was slowly grinding a 10" for a bigger scope. I came up with a design and breadboarded a crystal-controlled time base for a sideral drive for the ten-incher. Done with now-obsolete RTL from Fairchild, it would be a snap to do it today with a single Microchip IC plus a small stepper-motor or synchronous motor driver circuit. Doug moved to Hawaii to work on the BIG telescopes there so the ten-incher project (and its final drive) were put on hold. BTW, he had been into amateur radio first, then converted to doing amateur astronomy. Folkses mileage differs. :-) What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? Do we HAVE to 'attract new blood?' Serious question. I've already told my personal story. It seems to rankle some old-timers because it is non-standard to the 'common' experience of USA radio amateurs...so I won't repeat it. shrug After starting in the electronics industry 54 years back, doing high-power HF communications transmitting, the elimination of the morse code test allowed me to get a license (told that story, too, but it is also non-standard). In talking to the applicants a year ago and several others locally in the past year, their interest in getting a license vary considerably. But, nearly all of them go the Technician class route for local radio contacts, a sort of social order thing possible in a large urban area. It was like the CB radio craze and then the BBSs that preceded the Internet era. Few of those got involved via the supposed paradigm of 30 to 50 years back that lots of old- timers repeat. In this newer world of the Internet and many, many components available for lots of different electronics things, plus ten kinds of consumer electronic products (at relatively low cost) on the marketplace, the old concept of 'having one's own personal radio station' is diminishing rapidly. As I see it, the old reasons-for-being of amateur radio aren't applicable anymore. Technology in electronics has long since leaped ahead of any state-of-the-art advances done by amateurs long ago. What I see are two areas - 1. The just-plain-for-fun boosting, for whatever purpose in communications, whether in a local urban area or a bit farther out...and an emphasis on trying out things on a personal-enjoyment level. We are NOT required to DO certain things in the hobby just because some old-timers say we MUST do those besides the regulations that all must obey. 2. De-emphasizing the 'necessity-to-be-a-part-of-the- community-as-a-service.' Now, I know that amateur radio CAN help in emergencies and all that 'service-to-community' PR can persuade some lawmakers to this 'amateur cause' but it seems to me to have gotten too big a share of the open political statements in periodicals. Those who really care about community service can just as easily go DIRECT to such existing organizations. With a total licensee database showing 720+ thousand licensees today, that should be large enough to show lawmakers that amateur radio has a large following. I'm no expert on PR or marketing, don't have the explicit solution to get more newcomers. As I observe the hobby, it will last at least a couple of decades. That's good enough for me. USA amateur radio stands or falls by what its publicists say and try to convince new members...seldom by what the old-timers claim. Times have changed (many times over in my lifetime) and all must adapt to that, not to hold onto ancient paradigms that no longer apply. 73, Len AF6AY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
xpyttl wrote:
"Steve Bonine" wrote in message ... Michael Coslo wrote: some snippage Our Section Manager came up with a great idea. We have a very successful youth group in the far reaches of the state. There are, of course, a number of other amateur radio youth groups around the state, having varying levels of success. In April, we are going to gather kids from all these groups together, ply them with pop and pizza, a have them tell us what it was that attracted them, and what we could do better. What better way to figure out how to attract new hams than by asking the new hams themselves, and especially the young ones who we need, and who are likely to be more open than their older counterparts. Your group has hit on the correct way to attract the young folks - by getting a number of them together. If a young person comes into Ham radio all by themselves, it isn't as interesting for them, and they can't do as many things easily as if they were older. Its been my experience that young people (tweens and early teenagers) can get a little lost at club meetings and activities like Field day. And these days, there should be an approved adult to chaperone them at events who has been cleared by one of the state police background investigations. But if you can get a fair number of young'uns who can relate to each other well, they can become good hams and a future resource. - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
What makes a person become a Ham?
AF6AY wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:00:40 EST: some snippage What attracted you, and can we get some ideas from that to attract or identify and attract new blood? Do we HAVE to 'attract new blood?' Serious question. We do need new people to replace those who leave for one reason or the other. I want someone to talk to on the other end, and don't want the Amateur radio community to become closed and eventually die out. more snippage As I see it, the old reasons-for-being of amateur radio aren't applicable anymore. Technology in electronics has long since leaped ahead of any state-of-the-art advances done by amateurs long ago. What I see are two areas - 1. The just-plain-for-fun boosting, for whatever purpose in communications, whether in a local urban area or a bit farther out...and an emphasis on trying out things on a personal-enjoyment level. We are NOT required to DO certain things in the hobby just because some old-timers say we MUST do those besides the regulations that all must obey. I'm fortunate that I never had that experience. Of course, if someone ever did tell me how I was supposed to use my time in the hobby, I think I would politely decline, and go do what I wanted to do. 8^) 2. De-emphasizing the 'necessity-to-be-a-part-of-the- community-as-a-service.' Now, I know that amateur radio CAN help in emergencies and all that 'service-to-community' PR can persuade some lawmakers to this 'amateur cause' but it seems to me to have gotten too big a share of the open political statements in periodicals. Here we agree. While I am impressed with what Amateurs have done in emergencies, the way that the public service genre of the hobby has morphed is a little troublesome to me. I don't know if you were watching the group a few weeks ago, but I related a story about an emergency comm person speaking at a club meeting. When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. He (and some like him) come in to talk to the people who will be building and maintaining repeaters and infrastructure, and lay one like that on them? - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
What makes a person become a Ham?
Michael Coslo wrote:
Your group has hit on the correct way to attract the young folks - by getting a number of them together. I agree, but I haven't found the secret for getting them together. How does one publicize this first gathering? I have not found the term "ham radio" to be effective in attracting young folks. How about some more detail from the original poster of this scheme in terms of how they got it off the ground, and how they manage to keep it going? Thanks and 73, Steve KB9X |
What makes a person become a Ham?
"Steve Bonine" wrote in message ... How about some more detail from the original poster of this scheme in terms of how they got it off the ground, and how they manage to keep it going? Well, I wasn't the guy who got the original group going. However, my (vague) understanding is that the DAR Girls and Boys Club (I hadn't even known there was such a thing) was the original resource. Whether the DAR approached someone looking for an activity for these kids, or whether some interested ham was already a member, I don't know. Somehow they hit upon the idea of HF Contesting, and formed the "Young Amateurs Contest Ham Team" (YACHT). This, for whatever reason, took off. Apparently these kids enjoy contesting. As far as I know, the amateurs involved weren't big contesters, so this must have been the kids' idea. On reflection, contesting seems a pretty good idea. Kids are often reluctant to have conversations with older hams on the air. A contest is an easy way to get a lot of contacts without the risk of being asked hard questions. Locally we did have the 4H approach us looking for something of interest to the boys in 4H, since most of the activities seemed more oriented towards girls. As it turned out, we didn't attract many boys; a few girls but a bunch of parents! So that didn't work out for us. We still put together a little booth at the 4H annual pancake supper, but that really hasn't been terribly productive. One local activity that does seem to be working out is a school club. A couple of amateurs go to one of the middle schools once a week for a meeting of their radio club. This has gotten us a handful of new hams. Not huge numbers compared to the population, but every little bit helps. Someone mentioned having mentors for the kids background cheked, and in this day and age, there is something to be said for this. Most RACES organizations now require background checks, so your RACES organization might be a source for mentors for these kids that have already been vetted. ... |
What makes a person become a Ham?
xpyttl wrote:
Someone mentioned having mentors for the kids background cheked, and in this day and age, there is something to be said for this. Most RACES organizations now require background checks, so your RACES organization might be a source for mentors for these kids that have already been vetted. Keep in mind that the background checks for working with children are looking for different issues. When I was prez of an association and coaching youth Ice Hockey, I often had to explain that we weren't looking for violations of basic law, that no one was going to be rejected because they had an underage drinking offense or the like. No one is perfect. The only thing that would trigger the thing was violations involving children. The RACES checks might be a bit different, but I'm not sure. I'm almost certain the Red Cross' ones are. - 73 de Mike N3LI |
What makes a person become a Ham?
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message ... Keep in mind that the background checks for working with children are looking for different issues. When I was prez of an association and coaching youth Ice Hockey, I often had to explain that we weren't looking for violations of basic law, that no one was going to be rejected because they had an underage drinking offense or the like. No one is perfect. The only thing that would trigger the thing was violations involving children. The RACES checks might be a bit different, but I'm not sure. I'm almost certain the Red Cross' ones are. RACES background checks are, of course, dependent on your local emergency manager. Most, however, a looking for pretty much the same things. In the event of an emergency you might be deployed at a shelter or other location where there might be vulnerable individuals. That is the same sort of thing I would suspect one would want to know if someone were to be around children. But it is a good caution. Different jurisdictions can be amazingly uneven. I know of one jurisdiction where a deputy interviews the candidate's spouse. The concern is that the volunteer work might interfere with the home life. So clearly, YMMV. ... |
What makes a person become a Ham?
Michael Coslo wrote on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:36:39 EST:
AF6AY wrote: Michael Coslo wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:00:40 EST: Do we HAVE to 'attract new blood?' Serious question. We do need new people to replace those who leave for one reason or the other. I want someone to talk to on the other end, and don't want the Amateur radio community to become closed and eventually die out. That seems a tad premature to me. At present there are 722K TOTAL licensees and the expiration rate is roughly 27K/year. If that keeps up without any newcomers, it would be 26.7 years before all were gone. [of course there will be newcomers...but how many depends on the attitude of the old-timers they come in contact with] ... We are NOT required to DO certain things in the hobby just because some old-timers say we MUST do those besides the regulations that all must obey. I'm fortunate that I never had that experience. Of course, if someone ever did tell me how I was supposed to use my time in the hobby, I think I would politely decline, and go do what I wanted to do. 8^) Well, from my experience (at work or at play) I've had some who INSISTED on telling me what I 'should' be doing. Some of those got rather antagonistic about it. "We don't DO that kind of thing in fill-in-the-blank" kind of comment. It was so prevalent among amateur radio licensees that I encountered that it turned me off of bothering to get a license for a long time. That's been my experience over the last half century and I spent that time working IN the electronics industry. I'll have to say that the above attitude was reflected in the older amateur-radio-interest newsgroups and was partly due to the creation of rec.radio.amateur.moderated. ... I don't know if you were watching the group a few weeks ago, but I related a story about an emergency comm person speaking at a club meeting. I was 'reading the mail' but didn't bother with it much. :-) When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. That person was more right than wrong. If one bothers to look, the small-number Parts of Title 47 C.F.R. state clearly that ANYONE can use ANY radio frequency to call for assistance if a situation is really life or death...licensed or not. True. Phil Kane could probably quote the Part and wording off the top of his head but, not being an attorney, I would have to search the Parts (all freely accessible). Besides, someone in here would want to start a whole steamy argument thread on that, arguing minutiae on the whichness of the what...:-) Memory says it is the Part on commercial radio licenses but undoubtedly someone in here will say 'I am wrong.' [sigh] Radio amateur licensees are not bound JUST to what Part 97 says. The whole of Title 47 applies, even if 99+% has nothing directly to do with the amateur radio service. But, with REAL life-and-death situations, anyone can use any frequency at any time with or without any license. He (and some like him) come in to talk to the people who will be building and maintaining repeaters and infrastructure, and lay one like that on them? Let's take that IN context. Consider that the attending radio amateurs might ALSO have an 'attitude' going. Consider that lots of government infrastructure radio facilities are kept going 24/7 expressly FOR the purpose of life-and-death comms needs. Amateur radio repeaters aren't. Amateur repeaters are there primarily for the benefit of other amateurs. I don't know about your local group, but I've seen (in real life as well as in print) some groups that are simply too full of themselves with self-righteousness. Such folks have a terrible attitude and couldn't negotiate anything unless it was in their favor. Anyone coming in contact with them would tend to reply in-kind. Now, in my area, I'm GLAD that the commercial, professional radio services ARE there for anyone's benefit 24/7. LAPD and LAFD are up and running as are the neighboring incorporated cities of Burbank and Glendale (with nice cooperative ties between all the government facilities). The Greater Los Angeles Emergency Communications Center is staffed and ready to go into action any time there is a REAL emergency and they can tie into dozens of utility companies and other firms for unusual emergency situations. It was put to the test on 17 Jan 94 with the Northridge earthquake and passed. Since then it was improved via the LAFD Emergency Communications Service which donated old, unused buildings and bought or converted busses and radio equipment. I took my amateur tests at an 'Old Firehouse' that is now part of that LAFD sub-organization. Nice civic cooperation by the LAFD. I experienced that Northridge earthquake first-hand and helped a utility company restore services. All the electric power of an area populated by 10 million or so were WITHOUT electric power for half a day. Didn't see ANY sign of 'amateur radio emergency' groups until two days AFTER the 17th. FEMA flew in RF-plus-video terminals and put them in service the day after. I'd like to say something positive about amateur radio since I am a licensee in the radio service, but there wasn't much evidence of it. I've been a commercial radio licensee for 52 years and can't forget that...I have to give credit where it is due from REAL experiences, not some nebulous 'future plans' or PR write-ups that appear only within amateur radio interest groups. 73, Len AF6AY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
Kudos to those working to bring new folks, young and old, to ham
radio. Some observations from a ham who started out in ham radio at the age of 13 (in no particular order): 1) Don't just go for high schoolers. Middle-school and even elementary schoolers can be hams if they're interested enough. 3) Don't try to sell amateur radio as a substitute for cell phones, the internet, or other communications methods. Sell it as a unique activity with its own unique attractions and rewards. 4) Scouting has a long history of connection to amateur radio. Some councils have pretty serious amateur radio programs, and always need more help. 5) Don't assume what parts of amateur radio young people will or won't be interested in. Emphasize the wide variety of activities hams do, and how much choice there is. 6) Don't assume that younger hams only want to associate with other younger hams. For me, part of the attraction to amateur radio was the opportunity to be part of a community where one's age, gender, income, etc. are not a factor. Morse Code operation made this possible - on the air with that mode, nobody knows how old you are. You can interact with other hams of all ages. You're judged by your skills and signal quality, not how much you spent on your rig, etc. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
AF6AY wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:36:39 EST: When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. That person was more right than wrong. If one bothers to look, the small-number Parts of Title 47 C.F.R. state clearly that ANYONE can use ANY radio frequency to call for assistance if a situation is really life or death...licensed or not. True. Phil Kane could probably quote the Part and wording off the top of his head but, not being an attorney, I would have to search the Parts (all freely accessible). Besides, someone in here would want to start a whole steamy argument thread on that, arguing minutiae on the whichness of the what...:-) Memory says it is the Part on commercial radio licenses but undoubtedly someone in here will say 'I am wrong.' [sigh] It is not as simple as that. What constitutes an emergency? If an ambulance crew is transporting a 90 year old heart attack victim, it is certainly a matter of life or death for that one patient. However, if the ambulance breaks down, they can't commandeer your car. For a government agency to seize private property (a category that includes repeaters, transceivers, etc.) for their own use, they must have a declaration of emergency, declaration of martial law, or, in individual cases, a court order. The fire department employee who claimed that the FD could take over an amateur radio club's repeaters anytime that they wanted to do so was dead wrong. -- Klystron |
What makes a person become a Ham?
On Feb 29, 10:20 am, Klystron wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:36:39 EST: When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". It is not as simple as that. What constitutes an emergency? "Imminent danger of loss of life, serious injury, or damage/loss of property". Or verbiage something like that. If an ambulance crew is transporting a 90 year old heart attack victim, it is certainly a matter of life or death for that one patient. Agreed. But what if they are transporting several people - say, a young family that was in a serious auto accident? Or suppose they were transporting desperately-needed medicines, blood, etc., during an epidemic? However, if the ambulance breaks down, they can't commandeer your car. For a government agency to seize private property (a category that includes repeaters, transceivers, etc.) for their own use, they must have a declaration of emergency, declaration of martial law, or, in individual cases, a court order. I'm not sure what the ultimate legality is, in a case like that or the others I described. I suspect that government folks would not seize private property for emergency use unless they were desperate, because of the possible liability. OTOH, would you want to have it on your conscience that a person or a family died because you wouldn't let the ambulance folks use your car when it was desperately needed? The fire department employee who claimed that the FD could take over an amateur radio club's repeaters anytime that they wanted to do so was dead wrong. I don't think the FD person wanted the repeaters. He said they could use the frequencies, not the repeaters. And the frequencies are public property, after all. An amateur or club might own the repeater but they don't own the frequencies. Further complicating the situation is the fact that many if not most amateur radio repeaters aren't installed on the owner's property. For example, one of the repeaters I use is on top of a local hospital, where its antenna shares rooftop space with antennas for other radio services. (It's an excellent location and gives very good coverage). It's connected to the hospital's backup power system, too. The repeater club pays a nominal fee for the electric power and rent. Given that level of community support, don't the repeater owners have some responsibility to the community? Like the situation of the broken-down ambulance, would any radio amateur want it on his/her conscience that a building burned down, and/ or people died, because s/he wouldn't let the emergency service people use an amateur radio repeater in an emergency when it was desperately needed? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
In article ,
Klystron wrote: AF6AY wrote: Michael Coslo wrote on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:36:39 EST: When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. That person was more right than wrong. If one bothers to look, the small-number Parts of Title 47 C.F.R. state clearly that ANYONE can use ANY radio frequency to call for assistance if a situation is really life or death...licensed or not. True. Phil Kane could probably quote the Part and wording off the top of his head but, not being an attorney, I would have to search the Parts (all freely accessible). Besides, someone in here would want to start a whole steamy argument thread on that, arguing minutiae on the whichness of the what...:-) Memory says it is the Part on commercial radio licenses but undoubtedly someone in here will say 'I am wrong.' [sigh] It is not as simple as that. What constitutes an emergency? If an ambulance crew is transporting a 90 year old heart attack victim, it is certainly a matter of life or death for that one patient. However, if the ambulance breaks down, they can't commandeer your car. For a government agency to seize private property (a category that includes repeaters, transceivers, etc.) for their own use, they must have a declaration of emergency, declaration of martial law, or, in individual cases, a court order. The fire department employee who claimed that the FD could take over an amateur radio club's repeaters anytime that they wanted to do so was dead wrong. Well actually AF6AY, and Mike are reading more into those passages of Title 47 than they were, and are, intended, by the Commission. Phil, being an ex FCC Lawyer can expound on the intent, but when I was a Resident Field Agent, it was understood within the Commission, that Amateurs, operating within their Licenses, are NOT restricted to Frequencies, modes, or just about any other restriction, of operation, during Safety of Life situations, that are authorized by the PART 97, but this does NOT Allow them to use Frequencies NOT Authorized under than Part. The same is true for Licensees operating under other Parts like 90, 87, and 80, where that Specific Language is used in the Part. The fact of the matter is, that you only get in trouble, IF someone complains, or has a problem with your operation, and is willing to go on the Record with their objection with your operation, and Force an investigation, of the incident. Sometimes Common Sense does prevail, but sometimes it turns into a very BIG Deal. Case in Point, a few years back, there was an incident in California, where a young fellow used his Mod'ed HT to beak into the Local Sheriff's Frequency to report an injured Hiker. The Sheriff took offense to that intrusion, and there was a GIANT BrewHAHA, that as I recall, Phil was involved in. We had quite a discussion about the situation, between ourselves about the incident, and again, as I recall the issue was settled out of HQ by some of the BIG GUN Lawyers back there. -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
What makes a person become a Ham?
AF6AY wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote on Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:36:39 EST: AF6AY wrote: Michael Coslo wrote on Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:00:40 EST: Do we HAVE to 'attract new blood?' Serious question. We do need new people to replace those who leave for one reason or the other. I want someone to talk to on the other end, and don't want the Amateur radio community to become closed and eventually die out. That seems a tad premature to me. At present there are 722K TOTAL licensees and the expiration rate is roughly 27K/year. If that keeps up without any newcomers, it would be 26.7 years before all were gone. [of course there will be newcomers...but how many depends on the attitude of the old-timers they come in contact with] ... We are NOT required to DO certain things in the hobby just because some old-timers say we MUST do those besides the regulations that all must obey. I'm fortunate that I never had that experience. Of course, if someone ever did tell me how I was supposed to use my time in the hobby, I think I would politely decline, and go do what I wanted to do. 8^) Well, from my experience (at work or at play) I've had some who INSISTED on telling me what I 'should' be doing. Some of those got rather antagonistic about it. "We don't DO that kind of thing in fill-in-the-blank" kind of comment. It was so prevalent among amateur radio licensees that I encountered that it turned me off of bothering to get a license for a long time. That's been my experience over the last half century and I spent that time working IN the electronics industry. I'll have to say that the above attitude was reflected in the older amateur-radio-interest newsgroups and was partly due to the creation of rec.radio.amateur.moderated. ... I don't know if you were watching the group a few weeks ago, but I related a story about an emergency comm person speaking at a club meeting. I was 'reading the mail' but didn't bother with it much. :-) When a member noted that the ARS frequencies were there for use after the normal comms weren't working, he replied " Every thing we do is a matter of life and death, so we can use your frequencies any way we wish". That was not only wrong, but scary that people that think in that manner are coming into the hobby with such an attitude. That person was more right than wrong. If one bothers to look, the small-number Parts of Title 47 C.F.R. state clearly that ANYONE can use ANY radio frequency to call for assistance if a situation is really life or death...licensed or not. True. It has to be life and death, and keep in mind that Law enforcement is happy to make that determination after the fact - and has in some cases. The thing that had people concerned in this case was the "anything" message. some snippage Radio amateur licensees are not bound JUST to what Part 97 says. The whole of Title 47 applies, even if 99+% has nothing directly to do with the amateur radio service. But, with REAL life-and-death situations, anyone can use any frequency at any time with or without any license. He (and some like him) come in to talk to the people who will be building and maintaining repeaters and infrastructure, and lay one like that on them? Let's take that IN context. Consider that the attending radio amateurs might ALSO have an 'attitude' going. Consider that lots of government infrastructure radio facilities are kept going 24/7 expressly FOR the purpose of life-and-death comms needs. Amateur radio repeaters aren't. Amateur repeaters are there primarily for the benefit of other amateurs. One of the issues that has come up in the post Katrina world is that a number of public service agencies have had their employees get Ham radio licenses. All well and good, and probably an end run around getting hobbyists to help, since the employee hams will already be on the job. Problem is, the new hams in many cases are just looking for another communication channel, and are not interested in radio as radio. Even this is okay. But.. The problem that arises is that there is an expectation the people who are interested in the hobby and its technical issues are going to keep everything up and running. Even then, many of us with that ability are willing to pitch in. But the big question is who becomes liable if that repeater fails? I think that in many ways, Ham radio emergency operations are tending to become employees who also have a ham license. And their interests are more in the line of what they do best - save lives, not put up repeaters. - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
What makes a person become a Ham?
In article ,
wrote: I don't think the FD person wanted the repeaters. He said they could use the frequencies, not the repeaters. And the frequencies are public property, after all. An amateur or club might own the repeater but they don't own the frequencies. I think there's a significant difference between a one-time emergency use (if regular comms go down), and regular use of the frequencies as a substitute for a properly-licensed/managed public service radio allocation. As I understand it, this issue came up in a big way some decades ago, after World War II. During the war, normal amateur-radio communications were all shut down (for security reasons). The whole RACES system was set up to allow specially-licensed stations (part of civil-defense organizations) to use the ham-radio frequencies for communication. Some years after that (after ham-radio communications were allowed again) some controversy arose over the use of the ham frequencies. From what I've heard, there were some public-safety organizations in small towns (police and fire) which started using the ham frequencies regularly... they got ham licenses and set themselves up as RACES stations and tried to justify their full-time tactical use of the ham band under the "RACES training and drill" rules. Hams complained. The FCC agreed with the complaints, deciding that this was not an appropriate use of the ham frequencies, and instituted new rules which strictly limit the frequency and duration of RACES training drills that any given RACES organization can undertake (basically, the equivalent of two long weekends per year). These rules still exist today, and I imagine that many of us here had to answer at least one question about this on one of our ham exams :-) The Rules in 47 CFR 97.113 specifically forbid "Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services" as well as communications for hire or in which the operator has a pecuniary interest. I think that the first of these prohibitions would probably be ruled to apply to a fire department which (as a matter of course or regular practice) makes use of the ham band or repeaters. The FCC would (I believe) certainly rule that there are other bands and radio services which are specifically intended for public-safety use, and that these are reasonably available to fire departments and etc. Real, short-term emergency use, when a regular fire-department or other radio service fails for some reason, is a different matter... but this isn't a "regular basis" of communications. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
What makes a person become a Ham?
On Feb 29, 4:08 pm, (Dave Platt) wrote:
In article . com, N2EY wrote: I don't think the FD person wanted the repeaters. He said they could use the frequencies, not the repeaters. And the frequencies are public property, after all. An amateur or club might own the repeater but they don't own the frequencies. I think there's a significant difference between a one-time emergency use (if regular comms go down), and regular use of the frequencies as a substitute for a properly-licensed/managed public service radio allocation. Agreed. The discussion in question was about use of amateur frequencies in an emergency situation only. As I understand it, this issue came up in a big way some decades ago, after World War II. During the war, normal amateur-radio communications were all shut down (for security reasons). The whole RACES system was set up to allow specially-licensed stations (part of civil-defense organizations) to use the ham-radio frequencies for communication. During WW2, the system was called WERS (Wartime Emergency Radio Service). WERS used the prewar 112 and 224 MHz bands (2-1/2 and 1-1/4 meters) for local communications. Post-war, WERS evolved into RACES. Some years after that (after ham-radio communications were allowed again) some controversy arose over the use of the ham frequencies. From what I've heard, there were some public-safety organizations in small towns (police and fire) which started using the ham frequencies regularly... they got ham licenses and set themselves up as RACES stations and tried to justify their full-time tactical use of the ham band under the "RACES training and drill" rules. Sounds plausible. The difference in cost of amateur gear (which could be converted surplus or even homebrew) vs. commercial land-mobile VHF equipment was probably one reason for it. Hams complained. The FCC agreed with the complaints, deciding that this was not an appropriate use of the ham frequencies, and instituted new rules which strictly limit the frequency and duration of RACES training drills that any given RACES organization can undertake (basically, the equivalent of two long weekends per year). And the need for a declared emergency to activate RACES. Good points! 73 de Jim, N2EY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
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What makes a person become a Ham?
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What makes a person become a Ham?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:18:18 EST, "Dee Flint"
wrote: I don't think my path will be very useful to use as a tool. My second husband dragged me to a class with the comment "Let's do this together". My wife has been married before, and all three of her husbands (I am the last and longest) were hams. She never was interested in ham radio until a while back when she expressed an interest in being able to "slide into the seat" when I did emergency hospital communications. As an electrical power and instrumentation engineer of some 40 years' experience, theory was no problem for her. She started to take the three-session class offered by our radio club, using the ARRL's video tapes which in my view are insipid.. Halfway through the second tape she got up and left, declaiming "what the hell am I doing here" and strode out of the room. She never became interested again and I'm not about to press the issue. The moral of the story - good wishes have to be backed up by solid support. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
What makes a person become a Ham?
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:20:00 EST, Klystron wrote:
It is not as simple as that. What constitutes an emergency? Gee, let's open that can of worms once again! It's a two-prong test - it has to be a situation involving immediate safety of life or property, AND no other means of communication are available. My job at the Commish' involved reviewing such cases before Violation Notices were sent out, and in the vast majority of cases, both prongs were not met. In fact, in one notable case, the radio tech of the law enforcement agency upon whose frequency the "wanna-be" came up took the transceiver that was used to the location and was able to bring up several repeaters with "9-1-1" autopatch capability. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
What makes a person become a Ham?
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:12:10 EST, Bruce in alaska
wrote: The Sheriff took offense to that intrusion, and there was a GIANT BrewHAHA, that as I recall, Phil was involved in. The ham was a "wanna-be sheriff" and the department had had quite enough of his antics. That's the situation that I referred to in my earlier message this evening. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
What makes a person become a Ham?
On Feb 29, 9:14�pm, Klystron wrote:
wrote: Klystron wrote: But what if they are transporting several people - say, a young family that was in a serious auto accident? Or suppose they were transporting desperately-needed medicines, blood, etc., during an epidemic? If you want to COMMANDEER something, re-read my previous post. It doesn't matter if there are 99 people in the ambulance, they are all having heart attacks and the ambulance is on fire. However, if the ambulance breaks down, they can't commandeer your car. For a government agency to seize private property (a category that includes repeaters, transceivers, etc.) for their own use, they must have a declaration of emergency, declaration of martial law, or, in individual cases, a court order. I'm not sure what the ultimate legality is, in a case like that or the others I described. I suspect that government folks would not seize private property for emergency use unless they were desperate, because of the possible liability. � �Look for definitions of terms like "declaration of emer gency," "martial law" or "disaster area." This is heavily traveled territory - we don't need to reinvent the wheel, here in this newsgroup. The main point is that there has to be a clear and defined life-and- death emergency. But there's also the point of who can declare an emergency? Can the EMTs say that the ambulance breakdown is an emergency? OTOH, would you want to have it on your conscience that a person or a family died because you wouldn't let the ambulance folks use your car when it was desperately needed? � �See bottom paragraph. OK I don't think the FD person wanted the repeaters. He said they could use the frequencies, not the repeaters. And the frequencies are public property, after all. An amateur or club might own the repeater but they don't own the frequencies. This makes it a completely different situation from the commandeering of private property. Further complicating the situation is the fact that many if not most amateur radio repeaters aren't installed on the owner's property. � �If you put your shoes in a locker at the gym, are they still YOUR shoes? Of course - but if someone needed them in a life-and-death emergency.... There's also the question of contract provisions as part of the rental agreement. Shoes in a locker are different from permanently installed radio equipment requiring power and radiating RF. Like the situation of the broken-down ambulance, would any radio amateur want it on his/her conscience that a building burned down, and/ or people died, because s/he wouldn't let the emergency service people use an amateur radio repeater in an emergency when it was desperately needed? � �There is a bit of difference between a civic minded ama teur radio club voluntarily making its facilities available and a government employee with an inflated sense of entitlement believing that he can seize whatever he wants to seize whenever he want to seize it because fires and sick people in ambulances are really, really important. Of course - but what if the emergency really does meet K2ASP's double- prong test? That is, it's a real life-and-death emergency, and there are no other facilities available that can do the job? As KB9X points out, the quoted person who said "everything we do is life-and-death" was way out of line, and not representative at all. But what about real-life situations that meet the two-prong test? Granted they are very rare, and most of us will never encounter them, but the time to think about them is before they happen. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
What makes a person become a Ham?
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 01:05:35 -0500, Phil Kane wrote:
On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:20:00 EST, Klystron wrote: It is not as simple as that. What constitutes an emergency? Gee, let's open that can of worms once again! It's a two-prong test - it has to be a situation involving immediate safety of life or property, AND no other means of communication are available. And it really isn't that difficult IMO. The fellow who directly called the Police didn't have a need to do that, and in truth would have been better off to call 911, as they are the people with the resources needed to rescue people in that situation. There are some good reasons to use Amateur radio in emergencies. As an example, our local repeater system is a multi receiver polling system http://www.nittany-arc.net/newrepeater.html that takes the poll from several sites, selects the strongest one, and relays that to the main repeater. In this way, we can cover the whole county in a manner that 300 mw can pretty well work the entire area. This is all the more impressive when you look at a topo map of Centre County PA. Back to the reasons, if there is a deployment in the county, it can be a little difficult to establish comms from the regular systems, and in the northern parts of the county, cell phone coverage isn't easy to come by once you get away from the path that I-80 cuts through the hills. So in the nooks and crannies of the north part of the county, our repeater is a good choice, and if there are operations in both north and south, ham radio is a pretty good choice, and fits the criteria. I believe that in most cases, people aren't going to care a whole lot if there is a little gray area, but the "anything" description is just inaccurate and misleading. While this may be a small minority of emergency workers who fit the "I can do anything I want to do" description, they do need their errors pointed out when they make them. According to the fellow I had the discussion with at the meeting, there would be no rules anytime. -73 de Mike N3LI - |
What makes a person become a Ham?
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What makes a person become a Ham?
The moral of the story - good wishes have to be backed up by solid support. -- For me the moral of the story is that you need to match the training to the individual. Surely someone with the qualifications you listed could simply look throug a book for an hour or two and pass the test. Sending someone that highly qualified to the sort of experience you mentioned that is aimed at folks with no background at all is not apropriate IMHO. Jerry |
What makes a person become a Ham?
Phil Kane wrote in
: She started to take the three-session class offered by our radio club, using the ARRL's video tapes which in my view are insipid.. Halfway through the second tape she got up and left, declaiming "what the hell am I doing here" and strode out of the room. She never became interested again and I'm not about to press the issue. It seems like your xyl did the same thing as my wife, only in the opposite direction. She's every bit as intelligent as me, a quick study, and she has expressed some interest, but says "I could never do the things that you do", referring to the homebrewing and design I do. I keep telling her it isn't like that at all for a majority of Hams, but so far she has not gone for it. And likewise, I'm not going to press the issue! ;^) - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
What makes a person become a Ham?
"Phil Kane" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:18:18 EST, "Dee Flint" wrote: I don't think my path will be very useful to use as a tool. My second husband dragged me to a class with the comment "Let's do this together". My wife has been married before, and all three of her husbands (I am the last and longest) were hams. She never was interested in ham radio until a while back when she expressed an interest in being able to "slide into the seat" when I did emergency hospital communications. As an electrical power and instrumentation engineer of some 40 years' experience, theory was no problem for her. She started to take the three-session class offered by our radio club, using the ARRL's video tapes which in my view are insipid.. Halfway through the second tape she got up and left, declaiming "what the hell am I doing here" and strode out of the room. She never became interested again and I'm not about to press the issue. The moral of the story - good wishes have to be backed up by solid support. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane I suspect that what happened here is that for a woman of her abilities, the material was presented too slowly and at the level of the lowest common denominator and she couldn't stand it (too boring). She would probably have done just fine with the Question & Answer book and it's brief explanations. Dee, N8UZE |
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