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"Foxs Mercantile" wrote

You might want to read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_licensing_in_the_United_States#Histo ry_of_U.S._amateur_licensing

The Extra Class license, by what ever name it held always had additional
privileges.

Jeff, where do you see, in that article or *anywhere*, that the Amateur
Extra provided additional privileges? I got my General in early 1964, and
had *all* privileges. That is, I could operate CW in the entire CW portion
of any band, and phone in the entire phone portion of any band. In 1970? I
got my Advanced to get back some of the phone portion that was taken away,
due to incentive licensing, from the Generals.

Howard N7SO

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On 10/2/2014 1:40 PM, Howard Lester wrote:
Jeff, where do you see, in that article or *anywhere*, that the Amateur
Extra provided additional privileges?

Well, let's see....
The Department of Commerce created a new top-level license in
1923, the Amateur Extra First Grade, that conveyed extra operating
privileges. It required a more difficult written examination and a
code test at twenty words per minute.

In 1933, the Federal Radio Commission (FRC) reorganized amateur operator
licenses into Classes A, B and C. Class A conveyed all
amateur operating privileges, including certain reserved radio-
telephone bands.

From 1951 until the advent of incentive licensing in the late 1960s,
the Technician, Conditional and General classes shared the same written
examination and the Conditional, General, Advanced and Amateur Extra
classes shared the same operating privileges.

Note: This is your "smoking gun" a 17 year window where Extra wasn't
"extra" as far as operating privileges was concerned.

In 1968, once again, as in previously, from 1923 through 1951 (28
years) the Extra class license conveyed extra privileges.

In retrospect, it's now 2014, and a variation of Extra class license
has been available continuously since 1923 (91 years.) Of that 91 years,
74 years of having an Extra class license has meant extra privileges
for those holding that grade of license.

If anywhere in that history, you want to point a finger, it would
be the restructuring in 1951 that resulted in disincentive licensing
where a majority of General class licensees decided there was NO point
in upgrading.


that held the license



--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

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"Foxs Mercantile" wrote

Jeff, where do you see, in that article or *anywhere*, that the Amateur
Extra provided additional privileges?


If anywhere in that history, you want to point a finger, it would
be the restructuring in 1951 that resulted in disincentive licensing
where a majority of General class licensees decided there was NO point
in upgrading.

You had originally used the word "always," and that is the part that got my
attention.

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On 10/3/2014 1:24 PM, Howard Lester wrote:
"Foxs Mercantile" wrote

Jeff, where do you see, in that article or *anywhere*, that the Amateur
Extra provided additional privileges?


If anywhere in that history, you want to point a finger, it would
be the restructuring in 1951 that resulted in disincentive licensing
where a majority of General class licensees decided there was NO point
in upgrading.

You had originally used the word "always," and that is the part that got
my attention.

BTW Howard, I know you're now up near the 'toga, but did you live in the
Schenectady area before going west? The name sounds familiar -- if so,
what was your call ca. 1973?
k1io ex -wb2tsk, etc.

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On 10/3/2014 12:24 PM, Howard Lester wrote:
You had originally used the word "always," and that is the part
that got my attention.

Mea culpa. However, I found the information that disproved the
"Always" part, but by the same token, disproved the claim of
honorary only that was made earlier.


--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

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"Foxs Mercantile" wrote

You had originally used the word "always," and that is the part
that got my attention.

Mea culpa. However, I found the information that disproved the
"Always" part, but by the same token, disproved the claim of
honorary only that was made earlier.

And thanks for bringing to *my* attention that there *were* extra privileges
at one time for Extras.

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"Fred Goldstein" wrote

BTW Howard, I know you're now up near the 'toga, but did you live in the
Schenectady area before going west? The name sounds familiar -- if so,
what was your call ca. 1973?
k1io ex -wb2tsk, etc.

No, Fred, I'm not the famous Howard Lester who passed away some 7 or 8 years
ago. I did get to meet one of his sons here; he is a ham, too. Imagine my
surprise when I saw, I think in Amateur Radio Newsline back then, that I had
become an SK! I suppose I should put a disclaimer as such in my qrz bio.
;-)

When I first moved here and went to my first Saratoga hamfest, I sported my
Arizona callsign badge with my full name on it. More than a few hams looked
at me rather quizzically.

Howard

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On 10/4/2014 9:23 AM, Howard Lester wrote:
And thanks for bringing to *my* attention that there *were*
extra privileges at one time for Extras.

There still are.
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Hambands_color.pdf

The 80, 40, 20 and 15 meter bands all have exclusive portions
for Extra Class licensees. The same bottom 25 KHz I remember
from the early '70s when I upgraded to Advanced.

--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

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On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 21:49:40 EDT, Foxs Mercantile
wrote:

On 10/4/2014 9:23 AM, Howard Lester wrote:
And thanks for bringing to *my* attention that there *were*
extra privileges at one time for Extras.

There still are.
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Hambands_color.pdf

The 80, 40, 20 and 15 meter bands all have exclusive portions
for Extra Class licensees. The same bottom 25 KHz I remember
from the early '70s when I upgraded to Advanced.

Also, extra class licensees can get call signs in the form of 1x2
(N6AA), 2x1 (NA6A) and 2x2 (AA6AA). Advanced class can get only 2x2.
When I upgraded from Tech to Extra, I took advantage of this to trade
in my old call sign for an improved version.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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"Foxs Mercantile" wrote

And thanks for bringing to *my* attention that there *were*
extra privileges at one time for Extras.

There still are.
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Hambands_color.pdf

I didn't think I had to explain myself so explicitly.... I *know* there
still are; I *am* one. I meant that I didn't know there were additional
privileges for the Amateur Extra Class in the era before the portions of the
1950's and 1960's when there *weren't* any additional privileges.

N7SO ---- Amateur Extra

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On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:40:05 EDT, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Also, extra class licensees can get call signs in the form of 1x2
(N6AA), 2x1 (NA6A) and 2x2 (AA6AA). Advanced class can get only 2x2.
When I upgraded from Tech to Extra, I took advantage of this to trade
in my old call sign for an improved version.

As did I in 1978. 20 years later I paid the "tribute" (i.e. "vanity
fee") to get my original 1x3 call sign back before someone else got
it.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

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On 10/5/2014 5:31 PM, Howard Lester wrote:
"Foxs Mercantile" wrote

And thanks for bringing to *my* attention that there *were*
extra privileges at one time for Extras.

There still are.
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Hambands_color.pdf


I didn't think I had to explain myself so explicitly.... I *know* there
still are; I *am* one. I meant that I didn't know there were additional
privileges for the Amateur Extra Class in the era before the portions of
the 1950's and 1960's when there *weren't* any additional privileges.

There may also be some confusion about terminology. Jeff pointed out
that in 1923 they created an "Amateur Extra First Class" license, but
also, in 1933, they went to A, B, and C, dropping the "extra" name. So
then there was no "Extra" by name, until the 1951 reforms which also btw
created the Novice and Tech. That "Amateur Extra Class" had no on-air
privs. Incentive licensing in 1967 then reserved some bands for Extras,
other for the revived Advanced (including old grandfathered ones), that
had been General bands.

Extras also were eligible for 1x2 call signs, which IIRC were sort of
randomly assigned at first, then the "pick your own" program started.
That's how I got k1io -- First they gave PYO to people who had been
Extras for a while, then to less-of-a-while Extras, and finally to
anyone with an Extra. That's when I took the Extra test and got my
first choice. Since district 1 is relatively unpopulated, I don't think
anyone had held the call previously -- the K2xx series had been given
out back in the 1940s, but 1-land moved more slowly.

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On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 23:02:29 EDT, Phil Kane wrote:

On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:40:05 EDT, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Also, extra class licensees can get call signs in the form of 1x2
(N6AA), 2x1 (NA6A) and 2x2 (AA6AA). Advanced class can get only 2x2.
When I upgraded from Tech to Extra, I took advantage of this to trade
in my old call sign for an improved version.

As did I in 1978. 20 years later I paid the "tribute" (i.e. "vanity
fee") to get my original 1x3 call sign back before someone else got
it.
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

You might be amused at how I obtained my extra class ticket.

I had been a tech since the 1960's and saw no reason to learn Morse
code in order to talk on HF. I was working for various 2way and
marine radio companies. The last thing I wanted to do when I left
work was see another radio. I almost let my tech license lapse, but a
friend shoved the 610 form in my face and demanded that I renew.

When the code requirement was finally dropped for general class I
decided it was time to upgrade. Having passed the tech exam in the
dark ages (tubes, dynamotors, and Marconi antennas) was deemed
sufficient to demonstrate my technical competence. Therefore, I was
not required to repeat the exam.

The procedure required that I find all my old FCC licenses, which
amazingly were exactly where I buried them. When I appeared at the
scheduled VEC exam, I was informed that for the same price ($10), I
could take the extra exam. If I failed, then they would grant me a
general class license as a consolation prize. Just one problem. I
hadn't studied at all for the extra exam.

I sat down with a borrowed calculator and began to sweat my way
through the questions. The technical questions were easy. The
questions on HF operating protocol, band limits, and procedures were
unfathomable, so I resorted to guessing. I'm fairly sure that I got
all the technical questions right, and missed most of the operational
questions. I was later informed that I had passed by one question.
Whew.

Unfortunately, one of my friends surpassed my feat. He became tired
of using his foreign call sign and decided to get a US ham license. He
passed all 4 elements in one sitting, without missing a single
question, and possibly without studying. I was crushed but still
offered my congratulations.

I don't recommend attempting the extra class exam totally unprepared.
However, if anyone asks, it can be passed without studying.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

I don't recommend attempting the extra class exam totally unprepared.
However, if anyone asks, it can be passed without studying.

Before I took the extra exam I looked at some of the "practice tests"
available.

As a BSEE that worked his way through school working as an avionics
technician, like you I found the theory part to be trivial and the
regulatory part to require some before hand study.

This is as it is to be expected as electronics is electronics but
regulations are always unique.


--
Jim Pennino

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On Monday, October 6, 2014 12:27:25 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I don't recommend attempting the extra class exam totally unprepared.
However, if anyone asks, it can be passed without studying.

Of course - if you already know enough to pass it. I studied
for about a week for the test. My issue was that although I was
experienced in electronic matters, my experience was almost
entirely on the computing end, in fact, it was one of the
reasons I got into Ham Radio - I wanted to understand RF.

By the time I was ready for the Extra, I could have barely passed
without studying. I wanted to ace it though.

I think what happens in the testing discussions is some of the
people who have passed end up thinking that everyone
needs to know what they dolready do. It's like my wife
thinks that all hams do all the stuff I do and know, so
she doesn't want to test even at Tech level.

But th eguys I talk to who talk about "They might as
well give the licenses away" might be guilty of it
in the other direction.

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On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 14:47:03 EDT, wrote:

Before I took the extra exam I looked at some of the "practice tests"
available.

As a BSEE that worked his way through school working as an avionics
technician, like you I found the theory part to be trivial and the
regulatory part to require some before hand study.

A very close friend of mine decided after 50+ years on the sidelines
to get her ham license. She did the sample exams and aced all three
in one sitting. When I remarked that she had a BSEE and MSEE from
her earlier career in the electronics industry (she's been a forensic
odontologist for 30+ years now) she replied that there was almost
nothing on the exam that dealt with what she learned in school 50
years ago. I can understand that.

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon