wrote:
wrote:

From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 7:40 pm

wrote:

wrote:

From: on Sun, Sep 3 2006 1:49 pm


The fact is that the "incentive licensing" changes were an attempt to
*return* to a system something like that which existed before February
1953. The complexity of the final result was due in large part to it
being pieced together from the numerous non-ARRL proposals mentioned
earlier.


If that is true (and it is not) then there were FIVE classes
of amateur radio licenses prior to "incentive licensing." :-)


Actually, there were six classes of amateur radio licenses in the USA
from 1951 until the mid-1970s. They were Novice, Technician, General,
Conditional, Advanced and Extra.


"Incentive licensing" went into effect in the late 1960s. There were
six classes of license prior to "incentive licensing".

Incentive licensing was implemented in two stages, the first in November
1968 and the second in November 1969. I was one of those who was
perfectly content with a General Class license until the implementation
of Incentive Licensing. I drove to Dallas and passed the Advanced in
1970. It wasn't until 1977 that I was moved to try for the Extra.


Clever, casually omitting the period between the "mid-1970s"
up to 1991 and the creation of the no-code Technician class.


That wasn't the time period under discussion. Incentive licensing was
in effect then.

You can't win, Jim. Len sees your statements as a ploy.

The incentive licening changes of 1967 to 1969 did not create any new
license classes.

That's a plain and simple fact.

btw, the 1951 restructuring that gave us the license classes with names
rather than letters was not primarily driven by ARRL.

Sweetums, do NOT go into your smokescreening by diversion
routine again. That's SO transparent.

You don't really know what caused the 1951 restructuring, do you, Len?

I didn't think so.

Tsk. M. Superior at it again. :-)


You don't know, do you, Len? Or maybe you do know, but don't want to
admit it, because doing so would show the errors in your anti-ARRL
rants.

If he knows, he is certainly keeping it a secret. My guess is that he
is frantically searching the internet for information.

In 1951 I was graduating from Senior High School, coming up
on Draft eligibility and the Korean War was going hot and
heavy in northeast Asia. I went to work full-time as an
illustrator to get enough money to attend a good art school.
A radio hobby was way low on my priority list then. [I would
voluntarily enlist in the US Army in early 1952]


Bully for you, Len. What does that have to do with your mistakes and
ignorance?

I don't think he was commenting on those. He was addressing his
inability to multi-task.

By the time I was graduating from high school, I'd already had an
Amateur Extra class license for two years and had been a licensed radio
amateur for almost five years. Then I went to EE school. Graduated in
four years, having worked all the way through those years.

So you found the time to attend school, do your homework, take care of
the chores, watch TV and still found enough time to obtain an amateur
radio license and to operate?

The war in those days was in Southeast Asia. Some people my age went,
others did not.

But it's not really about me, Len. Whether I was around in 1951 or not
has no effect on the non-ARRL groups that influenced FCC back then.

The fact is that you simply don't know much about amateur radio
history, and what you do know is full of errors and bias.


Where was Jimmy in 1951? Did he exist? No.


So what? Can a person only talk about things that happened during their
lifetime? You rant on and on about what Maxim and ARRL did, years
before *you* existed.

Where was Len in 1066, or 1215 or 1538 or 1861?

The difference is that you repeatedly get the facts wrong.

....and launches into wordy tirades to cover up his errors.

----

Len, you should work on improving your Morse Code skills.

It ain't happenin'.

Dave K8MN

From: on Wed, Sep 6 2006 2:49 am


wrote:
From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 7:40 pm
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Sun, Sep 3 2006 1:49 pm

"Incentive licensing" went into effect in the late 1960s. There were
six classes of license prior to "incentive licensing".

You used too much Conditioner when you had your hair permed.
Tell the hairstylist that affects your ego too strongly.

So, the privileges of the Conditional Class was somehow
"different" because the FCC made allowances for those who
had long distances to travel to their Field Offices? Point
those out in detail, why don't you? Or do you want to go
into YET ANOTHER semantics battle in order to prove your
"rightness?" [I opt you go for the latter]

Clever, casually omitting the period between the "mid-1970s"
up to 1991 and the creation of the no-code Technician class.

That wasn't the time period under discussion.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...show what I originally wrote for a time
period that started all this semantics battling of yours.
NOW you claim YOUR stated time period is the ONLY one
under discussion?

Of course it is YOUR time period. You are Time Lord and
Dr. Who all together in the 1930s when Kode was King. :-)

The incentive licening changes of 1967 to 1969 did not create any new
license classes.

"Licening?" I liked your original typo better. :-)

So, what are you setting up for another semantics battle
with that two-year period, Jimmy? Or are the rules of
"time period under discussion" now limited to those two
years you've stated? Keep us informed.


You don't really know what caused the 1951 restructuring, do you, Len?

I didn't think so.

Tsk. M. Superior at it again. :-)

You don't know, do you, Len? Or maybe you do know, but don't want to
admit it, because doing so would show the errors in your anti-ARRL
rants.

The League is your shepherd, you shall not want... :-)

Mother, kindly remember that ARRL membership has never been
more than a quarter of all licensed US amateur radio
licensees. It is a MINORITY "representative" organization.
The ARRL "leadership" is highly biased towards morsemanship
and never fails to promote that. You abhor such statements
because you are a staunch Believer, perhaps supplicant at
the Church of St. Hiram. Poor baby.

Failure to "Believe" in the ARRL is an "error?" Okay, then
THREE-QUARTERS of US amateur radio licensees are "in error."
Go point out their "error" to them, why don't you?

Bully for you, Len. What does that have to do with your mistakes and
ignorance?

Jimmy, you REALLY need to work on your PEOPLE SKILLS!

By the time I was graduating from high school, I'd already had an
Amateur Extra class license for two years and had been a licensed radio
amateur for almost five years. Then I went to EE school. Graduated in
four years, having worked all the way through those years.

Wow. M. Superior in a gilded cage.

The war in those days was in Southeast Asia. Some people my age went,
others did not.

So, how did you "serve in other ways?"

Tsk, tsk, didn't you READ in your military expertise books
that only one out of seven in the military were ever
directly involved in battle? That little factoid has been
common knowledge in the military from WW2 to the present
day. Your precious body stood a good chance of being one
of those NOT in battle or being harmed.

But it's not really about me, Len.

Tsk, you seem to be working very hard to showcase yourself.

Whether I was around in 1951 or not
has no effect on the non-ARRL groups that influenced FCC back then.

That much is true. If you didn't exist then, you could
not do much of anything... :-)

The fact is that you simply don't know much about amateur radio
history, and what you do know is full of errors and bias.

Sigh, you REALLY need to work on your PEOPLE SKILLS, Jimmy.

I have to admit that I haven't committed the ARRL's
version of US amateur radio history to heart or memory.
I've only been working IN radio-electronics since 1953
and no doubt have "missed" the glory of pioneering
radio done by radio amateurs since then. yawn
Since you consider amateurs to be oh, so much BETTER
than us pros, you will naturally go berserk whenever
the League is faulted or I fail to glorify the glory
and majesty of morse code. Of course, the ENTIRE radio
world outside of ham radio is "full of errors and bias"
because they've GIVEN UP on using morse code for
communications. Looks like you have a BIG job ahead
to "correct their errors!"

Where was Jimmy in 1951? Did he exist? No.

So what?

Clever biasing technique you have, Jimmy, that of taking
sentences out of context and then manufacturing a
"dispute" or whatever as YOU choose. :-)

Can a person only talk about things that happened during their
lifetime?

Doesn't seem to bother you, Jimmy, although you DO
concentrate overmuch on times BEFORE you existed.
You are able to make virtual Mount Everests from little
ant hills about "historical facts" which, for amateur
radio, are limited to the ARRL's biasing about itself.
Minutae. Things made much of in order to divert a
thread subject.

You rant on and on about what Maxim and ARRL did, years
before *you* existed.

Not really. :-) When I was born Hiram Percy was
still quite alive, Kode was King in US amateur radio,
and the ARRL had managed to reach the top of the ham
club food chain. :-)

Not much has changed in ham radio since. You still
revere Maxim, think Kode is King, and get totally
****ed whenever anyone says the least little negative
about the League. :-)

The difference is that you repeatedly get the facts wrong.

Tsk. Why do you bother replying to me at all? :-)

---

Jimmy, you need to work on your PEOPLE SKILLS.

wrote:
From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 5:30 pm


Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am



Actually there's a bit more to it than that.

If you recall, Len once set out to get an amateur license, and
reportedly got up to 7 or 8 wpm before he gave up on learning Morse
Code.

You see, learning Morse Code was "hard work" for Len back then.


Tsk. M. Superior is in her innuendo habit...

....and Major Hoople is harumphing and posturing.

I explained that but you can't use my explanation and
have to manufacture a NON-reason of your own.

In the early 1960s I did make an attempt to get my
morse cognition skill up to 13 WPM, using mainly code
tapes (magneitc). I'm not sure of the reason I had
then, probably some pressure from co-workers who were
into SSB voice;

So Phone men were pressuring you to learn CW? I thought only code
bigots did things like that. Pressure is not a very good motivator for
learning something.

my lab boss at Ramo-Wooldridge was Ed
Dodds, W6ERU, had a nice Collins setup in Woodland
Hills, beam antenna, regular skeds with a friend in
New Zealand. While CB (on 27 MHz) had been authorized
in 1958, it had only spread so far in 1962 since the
off-shore electronics industry hadn't yet begun to
invade the market. My E.F. Johnson Viking Messenger
had been removed from my 1953 Austin-Healey (an
excellent ground plane with all-aluminum body) since
my first wife coerced me into getting Detroit Iron.
Apartment dwelling was not good for CB then, nor for
amateur radio. We went house-hunting.

....and you still have the dusty, tiny Johnson.


He's apparently one of those folks who does "book learnin'" rather
easily - let him read something and he'll lecture you on it endlessly.
Some of what he says will actually be right, too.


No, Jimmy, that's YOUR ploy in here. :-)

Nobody has come close to matching the output of your windy
pontifications. One would think that you are a short story writer
getting paid by the word. You're long on volume, short on facts.


But learning Morse Code to the 13 wpm level needed for a General
license turned out to be not so easy for Len, so he has held a grudge
about it for decades.


No "grudge" for any amateur wanting to USE it. A view
only against the alleged "necessity" to demonstrate
morsemanship just to GET a license.

It hasn't been an alleged necessity, Len. The necessity to pass a morse
exam in order to obtain a license was a reality.

You've manufactured a "moral defect" which didn't exist.
You've conveniently OMITTED the fact that eleven years
before then I began working Big Time HF radio comms where
there was NO manual morse code used nor required.

Your tale was interesting in the first few tellings. The hole in your
story is that it was a military station and not an amateur radio
station. Your military experience had nothing whatever to do with
amateur radio.


CB
had already been authorized on HF five years before and
required NO test whatsoever, certainly NOT morse code.

Then again, CB radio isn't amateur radio and it was never intended to be
such. The Citizens Band precluded user modification to the FCC
type-accepted equipment, mandated no more than five watts output and
restricted antenna height. There were prohibitions on working DX.
There were limits on how long one could transmit in a given time period.
Operation was limited to spot channels.

Seven years before that I'd been granted a First 'Phone
commercial license, again not requiring any manual morse
code demonstration yet I could (commercially) operate on
HF using that.

Imagine that! A radiotelephone license didn't require morse! That
wasn't amateur radio.

There arose what Cecil Moore would later
term "return on investment" given the readily-observable
CHANGE in communications already taking place in the
late 1950s.

In using code tapes there was no "difficulty" in learning
the tone patterns, only the TIME needed to get them down
well enough. TIME is not an unlimited quantity and a LOT
of things needed my time in my twenties.

I feel your pain, Len. I learned morse in the Cub Scouts over the
course of several weekly meetings. When I studied for my Novice exam,
it took all of two weeks of spare time brushup to bring my code speed to
5 wpm. Still, I managed to squeeze the time in between my school
activities, homework, sports, learning to play the guitar, television
and church.

If I had to
choose between a girlfriend (and later wife) and "morse
code practice," those code tapes would be kicked to the
gutter.

Most of us didn't feel a need to choose. Maybe we slept a little less.

If you think opposite, just shove a J-38 up yer
bum and have an orgasm, morse style.

Have you been studying the works of Roger L. Wiseman?


Now you may wonder why, if Len could do 7 or 8 wpm at one point, he
didn't just get a Novice license, and improve his Morse Code skills by
operating, as most of us did.


I bought a house in 1963. Shortly thereafter my (then)
wife was diagnosed with cancer. She died in 1964. I
was then 31 and stuck with a bunch of bills that
required a second job to break even. Night college
classes had to be postponed for an indefinite period.
I kept the house.

With all that, you indefatiguable little character assassin,
you thought it was NECESSARY TO STUDY MORSE CODE?!?!?

How did Jim assassinate your character, Len? You've had many years
since those days in which to obtain an amateur radio license. You've
been wasting your time posting here for better than a decade. You don't
have to work. You don't have house payments. You've wasted ten years
or better.

If you really thought that, you have all the emotional
sensitivity of a lump of wet clay...or an aberrant
outlook that isn't in Psych 101 or 102 textbooks. Too
twisted for my undergrad knowledge of psychology.

I'm almost feeling sorry for you, Len. Then I remember that a piranha
in his eighth decade is still a piranha.


The answer should be obvious: No way would Len allow himself to be
classified as a "Novice". That license did not carry the appropriate
title or status for him.


I'm not a "novice" in radio, Jimmy.

You're certainly not novice or neophyte in amateur radio. You have yet
to reach that plateau, Lennie.

Neither do I have
any emotional need for Rank, Status, Title in a HOBBY
activity.

But those things seem very important to you in a PROFESSIONAL capacity.
Have you stayed away from social clubs and lodges too, Len? Those
things are filled with rank, status and privilege. Most hobbies have
some sort of pecking order associated with them. Guys are beginners,
competent participants or experts in the field. The only way you can
avoid those labels is to be a loner. That's pretty hard to do in
amateur radio.

Since remodeling one unused bedroom into an
office, I haven't even mounted the RCA "first-patent"
plaque given to me by Chief Engineer Ray Aires nor the
picture of me getting it with Jim Hall, KD6JG, my
immediate manager at the time looking on.

Does that address your previous PROFESSIONAL status? It has nothing to
do with amateur radio, yet you found the need to tell us about it.

My wife is
the same way (I do the bragging about her) and her
'sheepskins' (3) are in storage up north. All of my
First 'Phone and GROL certificates and single college
certificate are in the big safety deposit box down
here; don't need them. I am secure in myself and what
I can do.

But you felt the need to comment on those non-amateur radio related
things. If you really felt secure in yourself and what you can do, why
did you feel compelled to comment on them?

Outside of the amateur radio pecking order, WHAT GOOD IS
MORSEMANSHIP TODAY?

It comes in really handy for conducting CW QSOs.

It isn't used for regular comms by
any other radio service.

Luckily for us, we aren't discussing other radio services.

There isn't one single Public
Safety radio service that uses manual morse code.

Well, imagine that!

There
isn't even one surviving landline morse code telegraph
circuit now.

That's fascinating!

I've communicated by radio from land, from
a cockpit (at the controls) in the air, from the sea
(Ventura Harbor area), from a moving vehicle, from a
stationary vehicle, while on march in the Army with a
PRC-8 on my back. All during the last half century.
No "TITLES" necessary to do any of that or to do it well.

None of those things is related to amateur radio, yet you felt the need
to tell us about them. Do they simply relate to your perceptions of
your own rank, status or privilege?


Precisely. They'll also have much more experience in amateur radio than
Leonard H. Anderson. Those who are proficient in the use of Morse, will
always be a leg up on Leonard.


Riiiight, world's greates DXer, amateur radio is SOOOO much
more advanced than every other radio. [barf, har har]

I've never laid claim to any such title. Amateur radio operation is
different from other radio services. You've unwittingly showed us a
number of examples above. It isn't primarily a point-to-point service.
It uses a variety of modes. It isn't primarily channelized. It isn't a
commercial or military service. It covers wide portions of the
spectrum. My claim that those who are proficient in the use of morse,
when it comes to amateur radio operation, is an absolute fact.


So what? People have all kinds of skills, experience, etc. I'm sure
there are things where Len has more experience/knowledge/skill than I,


IMPOSSIBLE in Jimmyworld. :-) [he will almost say that
outright]

Then why did he just state the exact opposite?


and things where I have more experience/knowledge/skill than he.


Morsemanship, obviously. Something in great demand these
days of the 1930s. Morse champions are to be rewarded with
titles of nobility. Long live the morsemen. Huzzah.

Jim is an EE. It is possible and even likely that there are areas of
that field where he outshines you.

On anything else, Jimmy hasn't made himself known. Such as
what he does for a living (if a life of morsemanship is
called living). Does Jimmy have a girlfriend? Boyfriend?
Any social life not requiring an antenna? Do we care?
[in general, no]

You must care. You've gone fishing for that information a number of
times. Jim has seen what happens when you glean a little information
about someone.




Exactly. Amateur radio is "radio for its own sake".


Then why all the titles, rank, status, privilege, bandplans
and attendant class distinction?

How do any of those change one's love of radio as radio? Do you think
that all bandplans have to do with titles, rank, status or privilege?
You don't really need to worry about it. You don't hold an amateur
radio license of any class. You have no status, rank or privilege in
amateur radio.

In case you've forgotten, Len did some writing for the now-defunct
amateur radio magazine "ham radio". He got paid for those articles, of
course. None of his articles were actual projects, though.


That is a moral deficit? :-)

You are IN ERROR, Jimmy. Look up the one on using an HP-25
calculator to convert Noise Bridge readings. That was
developed to aid some local friends on antenna measurements.
Look at the footnotes on that article and some of the
examples. The whole "Digital Techniques" series was based
on personal descriptions to others (some of which were
amateurs)...the last one on a Phase-Frequency Detector was
based on the prototyping I did, partly on an old Apple ][,
for an optical interferometer.

You conveniently forget the two-plus years I spent with
Ham Radio magazine as an Associate Editor. Look on the
mastheads for proof of that. Did that under Alf Wilson
(W6NIF, took over after Jim Fisk suddenly died) and
Rich Rosen (K1RR?). I opted out from HR from time
pressure of self-employment...and learning that publisher
Skip Tenney was going to sell HR to CQ.

It looks like more of your efforts to impress with titles, rank, status
and privilege, Len.



...and learning morse would apparently be "work" for Leonard.

"hard work", actually. That's why he gave up on it.


No, DUMB work. Waste of my time. Why do I need morse?

Len Anderson: Self declared several decade interest in amateur radio.
He has never attempted to pass an amateur radio exam. It has been more
than a decade since he began posting to r.r.a.p. He still has no
amateur radio license. Talk about wasting your time!

Why does anyone need morsemanship? To keep the USA
safe from terrorists? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you see that as one of your areas of self-appointed advocacy?


It is always Big Time in the Len recounting.


It was NOT "Big Time?" What do you call 36 to 43 HF
transmitters ON at any one time, power outputs of 1 KW
to 40 KW, relaying 220 thousand message a month, the
third largest station in ACAN-DCS? :-)

"We're number three! We're number three!"

Yet you've continued to denigrate the experience of others in "Big Time"
HF communications. Some have done as much for longer than you, Leonard.
Some have actually *operated* such "Big Time" gear--keyed the
transmitters, changed frequencies, selected from a whole field full of
monster antennas. Your tale goes back over half a century and it isn't
amateur radio.

You need to see the following then:

http://sujan.hallikainen.org/Broadca...phabetSoup.pdf

I didn't make that one, just copied it. Circa 1962.
Produced by the Japan Signal Overseas Battalion, a
merging of the old "71st" and "72nd" battalions.


Bully, Len.


At least he has dropped the claim that HE worked 24/7.


I was on-call 24/7 with the scheduling times. NCOs got
stuck with that. Longest I worked was 34 hours, one time.

That's quite different from your earlier claim. I've run the CQ
Worldwide DX SSB Contest for as long as 45 of 48 hours. My friend OH2MM
has often worked the entire 48 hours during the CW weekend. Of course
we're getting older and no longer have the stamina to do so. My last
such effort was when I was 42. Ville continued to do so into his 50's.
Last year I managed only a feeble 38 hours. I've never worked 24/7 and
neither has anyone else in the history of time. It is a physical
impossibility.

Jimmy Noserve not know stuff like dat. He never be in
military serving his country.

Why are you writing black, jive dialect, Len? What of the statement?
Do you see yourself as having more rank, status or privilege than
someone who never served in the military?

Jimmy "serve country in
different ways," the 'different' very, very undefined.

....and not knowing what he did, where he worked, what his marital status
is or much else about him is driving you nuts, OT.

My personal experience with PROFESSIONAL
long haul circuits that HAD to be kept working is that they don't
always. When a healthy solar flare comes along, you might as well mail
'em a letter.


Tsk, from the 80s and later? :-)

The point in time is irrelevant. A major solar flare is a major solar
flare. If you're running an HF circuit, you're often out of luck until
its effects pass.

Military has used all kinds of comms spectra/modes from
1980 onwards, mostly microwave...comm sats, troposcatter
(both microwave, work right through solar flares)

We were discussing HF, Leonard, though even sats may be disrupted. A
transatlantic microwave link is a creature I'm not familiar with.

and HF
which is delayed only a few hours on CERTAIN HF routes.
HF radios with ALE (Automatic Link Establishment, not
the drink).

But the circuit HAS TO WORK according to you. If it is out for a few
hours, it isn't working. I've personally observed the West African
Echo, severe night time multipath distortion preventing baudot circuits
from working for as long as twelve hours, regardless of chose frequency.
The circuit HAD TO WORK, but it didn't. If our equipment had worked
as low as 2 MHz, it might have.


Looks like a deep seated insecurity on Len's part, though.


The only "deep seated insecurity" I have is the folding
chairs on the patio. The webbing is damaged by 25-30
years of solar radiation. Seat oneself in them now and
there is a great deal of "deep seated (to the floor)
insecurity." :-)

People worry about peculiar things as they age. With your comfortable
income, you could buy new chairs or at least replace the webbing.

Must decide whether to get webbed ones or solid
plastic replacements. Still have the homebuilt
swing sofa out there.

See? You spend your time worrying about outdoor furniture and regs
involving a radio service in which you are not a participant.


You surely remember what he has said about CHILDREN in the past.

Oh yes - something about his difficulty including them in what he sees
as an adult activity. Also, he proposed a minimum age requirement for
an amateur license even though he had absolutely no evidence of
problems caused by the licensing of young people. Then there's his
accusating the ARRL and some VEs of "fraud" in licensing some young
children.


"Accusating?" :-)

I was not "accusating" the ARRL. I said their actions
were "grandfatherly" to a pair of cute six-year-olds.

You said much more than that. Google knows.

I
gave NO outright accusation if that's what your raging
character assassination words tried to say. :-)

You might want to think about your response.

FCC amateur radio regulations are written such that ANY
licensee, regardless of age, can operate (within bounds
of their license class) at any time. Says NOTHING about
"parental supervision" of six-year-olds or even nine-
year-old Extras.

Precisely--and the FCC has not seen fit to set an age limit for amateur
radio licensing, ever.

Correct, legal operation of radios requires MATURITY of
RESPONSIBILITY. If you still think that 6 year olds and
9 year olds are MATURE, your head isn't on straight.

....and if you can find an age-related FCC amateur radio enforcement
action dealing with a young person, please provide it.

If nine-year-olds can become Extras, then what does that
say about the MATURITY level of other Extras? :-)

It says that you haven't achieved that level of maturity. You're still
on the outside, looking in.

Tsk, tsk, still bitching about a Comment I made to the
FCC in January 1999? Seven years ago and you still
can't let go of it? Not a good mental picture of you,
Jimmy.

You've had seven years of wearing that dried egg on your mug. Now THERE
is a picture.



Didn't you know, Jim? Len's made himself an ADVOCATE for
something-or-other.

Keeping real estate zoning regulations as they were 40+ years ago?


What has THAT manufactured dispute of yours to do with
ANY radio?!?

You manufactured the dispute--with the owners of the land to be developed.

Oh, you are homeless? (in Radnor, PA?)

Jimmy got no sense of LIVING on his own PROPERTY?

I don't think he believes he can make the rules for the property of his
neighbors.

Jimmy and Davie only care about amateur morse code, ham
radio, and growing antennas...

I care about much, much more, Lennie. It isn't really material I care
to discuss in an amateur radio forum--or with you.



His life is otherwise empty, depsite the comfortable income, two
mortgage-free homes and the like. Maybe Len can take a part-time job as
bag boy at Ralph's.


Maybe Davie can go stick a plastic shopping bag on his head?

Breathe deep with it on, Davie. Use your hands to
tap out morse code if you get in trouble. :-)

That's the attitude that'll preclude your employment at Ralph's.


No, Ralph's requires that everything be Pretty Good. Including the
ketchup.


Ralphs, Vons, Albertsons chains all sell food made by
professional food growers and producers.

....with all their titles, rank, status and privilege.

AMATEURS
aren't wanted as growers/producers. Maybe at Tressieras
or Food4Less, but we don't go there.

Ahhhh! Rank, status and privilege?

BTW, quit trying to glean info on where the Burbank HRO
outlet is, it moved.

Why would either of us need to traipse across the country for ham gear?

You might tell Stevie the Imposter.
It isn't across the street from the Ralphs market where
we shop for food.

I'm sure someone with no life will make a note of it. Maybe Wiseman!

He can add it to that list of information containing the information on
where I worked in high school and what color my car is.


Len often acts ugly. I prefer not to think of him as naked.

Please don't go there...


You have a repugnance to seeing naked human beings, Jimmy?

I don't even want to see naked fruit or veggies if they're past their
"sell by" date.

Oh, yes, you are unmarried, right?

Are you writing a book? Leave this chapter out and make it a mystery.

By the way, I know Jim's marital status, but I'm not telling you.


Whether Len is ever a radio amateur or not, I'm not going to lose any
sleep over it.

Nor I. Besides, it's just not going to happen.


The code test issue was never about me or "whether or not
I get a license." That is in your weird, manufacture-the-
worst-personal-assassination scenarios, Jimmy and Davie.

Well, Lennie, it has to have something to do with you personally. As
you demonstrated when talking about other areas of your life, you don't
do things unless there is something in it for you.

Long ago and several times since then I've said that my
actions are for ending the US manual morse code test for
an amateur radio license. There is NO "personal" motive
in that...you are confusing PERSISTENCE with 'personal.'

Persistance? Try obsession. You're a retired goofball with an amateur
radio fetish.

You two need to take a look at what YOUR personal motives
are in taking it so hard about those of us who seek
removal of the code test. Several possibilities exist
the

....and you missed 'em all.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 7:40 pm
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Sun, Sep 3 2006 1:49 pm

The fact is that the "incentive licensing" changes were an attempt to
*return* to a system something like that which existed before February
1953. The complexity of the final result was due in large part to it
being pieced together from the numerous non-ARRL proposals mentioned
earlier.

If that is true (and it is not) then there were FIVE classes
of amateur radio licenses prior to "incentive licensing." :-)

Actually, there were six classes of amateur radio licenses in the USA
from 1951 until the mid-1970s. They were Novice, Technician, General,
Conditional, Advanced and Extra.

"Incentive licensing" went into effect in the late 1960s. There were
six classes of license prior to "incentive licensing".

Incentive licensing was implemented in two stages, the first in November
1968 and the second in November 1969.

There were actually three stages, Dave, but only the last two are
usually remembered.

The first stage happened in mid-1967. That was when the Novice license
term was doubled to two years, and the Advanced license was reopened to
new issues. The existing written test for Extra was split into two
elements, with one for Advanced and the other for Extra.

I was one of the first two-year Novices, license dated October 12,
1967.

I was one of those who was
perfectly content with a General Class license until the implementation
of Incentive Licensing. I drove to Dallas and passed the Advanced in
1970. It wasn't until 1977 that I was moved to try for the Extra.

I was lucky enough to be just a subway ride from the Philly FCC office,
with a bit of walking to and from the Market Frankford line (now known
as SEPTA's Blue Line, it is partly elevated, partly underground, and
partly at grade level, yet is usually called "The El").

I figured the FCC wouldn't be making the tests easier in the future, so
I upgraded as soon as possible.

The incentive licening changes of 1967 to 1969 did not create any new
license classes.

That's a plain and simple fact.

Six license classes before and six license classes after, until the
Conditional was eliminated in the mid-1970s.

If he knows, he is certainly keeping it a secret. My guess is that he
is frantically searching the internet for information.

By the time I was graduating from high school, I'd already had an
Amateur Extra class license for two years and had been a licensed radio
amateur for almost five years. Then I went to EE school. Graduated in
four years, having worked all the way through those years.

So you found the time to attend school, do your homework, take care of
the chores, watch TV and still found enough time to obtain an amateur
radio license and to operate?

Yup.

I also worked part time, was active in some extracurricular school
activities, and built much of my amateur radio station from recycled
parts taken from TVs, BC radios and WW2 surplus. Swords into
plowshares, doncha know.

And maintained a high enough academic average to be admitted to every
college/university I applied to. My accomplishments as a radio amateur
figured into my being accepted to EE school.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

wrote:


On 4 Sep 2006 18:13:27 -0700, wrote:



Dave Heil wrote:


wrote:


wrote:

ARRL kept promoting themselves as
"representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but
suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions.


Why are you suspicious, Len? Anyone could petition the FCC directly,
and many did, long before the Internet and ECFS.

Len is suspicious of the League's elections of Directors too. Len is
suspicious of a number of things in which he isn't involved.

Interesting how Carl was barred from running for section office.
Professional talent need not apply - we only want amateurs.

and yet no problem for the ARRL's marketing director to hop over to
Yeasu


He is forever tainted...

Wow, Goobers united!

I don't think Yaesu/Vertex Standard has a policy which precludes the
hiring of those who worked at the League.

The League's policy doesn't preclude the candidacy of those who
*previously* worked in professional communications or the manufacture
and marketing of amateur radio equipment. They deal with those who work
in such fields *currently*, at the time of the election.


Likely candidates for ARRL volunteer positions are what? retirees?

Volunteer positions are not elected positions. Read up on it.

What do the elected positions pay?

Just what the hobby needs more of...

I welcome all the retirees amateur radio can get, just as I welcome all
of the young people and all of those in between.

Dave K8MN

Right.

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:


wrote:


wrote:


ARRL kept promoting themselves as
"representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but
suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions.


Why are you suspicious, Len? Anyone could petition the FCC directly,
and many did, long before the Internet and ECFS.

Len is suspicious of the League's elections of Directors too. Len is
suspicious of a number of things in which he isn't involved.


Interesting how Carl was barred from running for section office.
Professional talent need not apply - we only want amateurs.

The ARRL's rules regarding candidacy for elected ARRL positions existed
decades before Carl's run. The matter is moot since Carl's mouth would
have precluded his being elected had he qualified for candidacy. The
skeletons were pouring forth from the r.r.a.p. closet.

Dave K8MN


You're describing halloween.

I'm describing statements made by Carl. If those are Halloween, so be it.

Skeletons pouring forth...

Like working out of band frenchmen on six meters...

If you take Carls remarks in context, there are a lot of hams that
would agree with him...

There's not much evidence of that. Who might they be--the MoveOn.org of
ham radio?

Dave K8MN

and would welcome a scrapper in the white house,
err volunteer office.

I'm unfamiliar with the MoveOn.org of ham radio.

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:


You're describing halloween.

I'm describing statements made by Carl. If those are Halloween, so be it.

Skeletons pouring forth...
lets see Robseson outs himself as gay and quite a week here in rrap

Like working out of band frenchmen on six meters...

If you take Carls remarks in context, there are a lot of hams that
would agree with him...

There's not much evidence of that. Who might they be--the MoveOn.org of
ham radio?

Dave K8MN

and would welcome a scrapper in the white house,
err volunteer office.

I'm unfamiliar with the MoveOn.org of ham radio.

indeed it is red herring the oher standard attack of the proocders

an old freind wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:


You're describing halloween.

I'm describing statements made by Carl. If those are Halloween, so be it.

Skeletons pouring forth...

lets see, Robseson outs himself as gay and quite a week here in rrap

Hi! Years and years of complaining and he finally decided to do
something about it...

He became a participant.

Like working out of band frenchmen on six meters...

If you take Carls remarks in context, there are a lot of hams that
would agree with him...

There's not much evidence of that. Who might they be--the MoveOn.org of
ham radio?

Dave K8MN

and would welcome a scrapper in the white house,
err volunteer office.

I'm unfamiliar with the MoveOn.org of ham radio.

indeed it is red herring the oher standard attack of the proocders

Maybe he'll have some crackers with that red herring.

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:


wrote:


wrote:



On 4 Sep 2006 18:13:27 -0700, wrote:




Dave Heil wrote:



wrote:



wrote:

ARRL kept promoting themselves as
"representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but
suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions.


Why are you suspicious, Len? Anyone could petition the FCC directly,
and many did, long before the Internet and ECFS.

Len is suspicious of the League's elections of Directors too. Len is
suspicious of a number of things in which he isn't involved.

Interesting how Carl was barred from running for section office.
Professional talent need not apply - we only want amateurs.

and yet no problem for the ARRL's marketing director to hop over to
Yeasu


He is forever tainted...

Wow, Goobers united!

I don't think Yaesu/Vertex Standard has a policy which precludes the
hiring of those who worked at the League.

The League's policy doesn't preclude the candidacy of those who
*previously* worked in professional communications or the manufacture
and marketing of amateur radio equipment. They deal with those who work
in such fields *currently*, at the time of the election.


Likely candidates for ARRL volunteer positions are what? retirees?

Volunteer positions are not elected positions. Read up on it.


What do the elected positions pay?

Read up on it.


Just what the hobby needs more of...

I welcome all the retirees amateur radio can get, just as I welcome all
of the young people and all of those in between.

Dave K8MN


Right.

Absolutely right.

Dave K8MN

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:


wrote:


Dave Heil wrote:



wrote:



wrote:


ARRL kept promoting themselves as
"representative" allegedly for the amateur to the FCC but
suspiciously more like a "filter" of amateurs' opinions.


Why are you suspicious, Len? Anyone could petition the FCC directly,
and many did, long before the Internet and ECFS.

Len is suspicious of the League's elections of Directors too. Len is
suspicious of a number of things in which he isn't involved.


Interesting how Carl was barred from running for section office.
Professional talent need not apply - we only want amateurs.

The ARRL's rules regarding candidacy for elected ARRL positions existed
decades before Carl's run. The matter is moot since Carl's mouth would
have precluded his being elected had he qualified for candidacy. The
skeletons were pouring forth from the r.r.a.p. closet.

Dave K8MN


You're describing halloween.

I'm describing statements made by Carl. If those are Halloween, so be it.


Skeletons pouring forth...

Like working out of band frenchmen on six meters...

"Frenchmen". I broke no regs in my 6m operation from anywhere. As
you've been previously advised, if you have a problem with French ops
being outside their allocated band segment on any band, you should take
it up with the French authorities and the REF. Additionally, my 6m
operation would not likely effect my eligibility to run for an ARRL
elected position. My views are mainstream and I have no record of bad
mouthing the ARRL or its Board of Directors.

If you take Carls remarks in context, there are a lot of hams that
would agree with him...

There's not much evidence of that. Who might they be--the MoveOn.org of
ham radio?

Dave K8MN


and would welcome a scrapper in the white house,
err volunteer office.


I'm unfamiliar with the MoveOn.org of ham radio.

Obviously.

Dave K8MN