"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
Larry Roll K3LT said:
Those that can't -- whine about
the requirements and wait for them to be dumbed-down to their level!

Well some coders refuse to learn the technical material. Although
time-consuming, Its easy to learn one skill (CW) and claim superiority for
that.
Seems like the requirement was dumbed down to the non-technical Ham's
level.

There are other reasons not to learn code other than "dumbed-down" as you
say.
One is that I don't like code. Another reason is image. It shows that you
put
time into a worthless pursuit (Morse code). Image is NOT the consideration
for
me. I would learn it if I wanted to.

I agree 100% Code should be dropped ASAP. If we want to save Ham Radio.


I don't have to learn Morse code just so I can prove I have the ability
to
learn Morse code. I have learned other skills that are just as
difficult.
Another reason is the "benefit" is not worth the effort. I would put
effort
into those because I can use those skills in real life. I cannot use
Morse
code.

I agree too. What kind of high-paying jobs would you get by learning CW?


I highly suggest that to add to your sense of self-satisfaction, that
once
you get your "No-Code Extra" you make a point of telling every Pre-
Restructuring, 20-WPM code-tested Extra you know that you are their
"equal" as a ham radio operator.

Funny, thats what pro-coders say. They say that a General class that
learned
Morse code is superior because they have a higher license class. I would
say
that the General or Extra that just learned code may not be superior to
the
Technician that wants to have good technical skills, but refuses to learn
code.


It's the "I'm better than you" attitude that is ruining the hobby. People
like Larry and Steve, are old and want the CW to stay, as a "hazing" thing.

I'm afraid thoese days are going the way of the dinosour........

Lloyd Davies, N0VFP

"LA Davies" wrote in message
news:3f10550c@shknews01...

"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
Larry Roll K3LT said:
Those that can't -- whine about
the requirements and wait for them to be dumbed-down to their level!

Well some coders refuse to learn the technical material. Although
time-consuming, Its easy to learn one skill (CW) and claim superiority
for
that.
Seems like the requirement was dumbed down to the non-technical Ham's
level.

There are other reasons not to learn code other than "dumbed-down" as
you
say.
One is that I don't like code. Another reason is image. It shows that
you
put
time into a worthless pursuit (Morse code). Image is NOT the
consideration
for
me. I would learn it if I wanted to.

I agree 100% Code should be dropped ASAP. If we want to save Ham Radio.


I don't have to learn Morse code just so I can prove I have the
ability
to
learn Morse code. I have learned other skills that are just as
difficult.
Another reason is the "benefit" is not worth the effort. I would put
effort
into those because I can use those skills in real life. I cannot use
Morse
code.

I agree too. What kind of high-paying jobs would you get by learning CW?


I highly suggest that to add to your sense of self-satisfaction, that
once
you get your "No-Code Extra" you make a point of telling every Pre-
Restructuring, 20-WPM code-tested Extra you know that you are their
"equal" as a ham radio operator.

Funny, thats what pro-coders say. They say that a General class that
learned
Morse code is superior because they have a higher license class. I
would
say
that the General or Extra that just learned code may not be superior to
the
Technician that wants to have good technical skills, but refuses to
learn
code.


It's the "I'm better than you" attitude that is ruining the hobby. People
like Larry and Steve, are old and want the CW to stay, as a "hazing"
thing.

I'm afraid thoese days are going the way of the dinosour........

Lloyd Davies, N0VFP




Look at it this way LLLLLLoooooooYYYYYYdddddd...if CW stays it will keep you
off of HF. That in itself is a reason to keep it.

Dan/W4NTI

Well, I just saw a post. Interesting problem from a brand-new 1X2 call.
Seems he had a fairly high SWR on his beam so to keep water out of the
traps, he sealed the holes in the traps. The beam is mounted on conduit 20
feet off the ground and now his SWR is *extremely* high on 20 and 15 meters.
So, someone kindly explain how elimination of any waiting period for the
extra class license and virtual elimination of the code (no, I'm not a
pro-coder; it just forced folks to wait and learn a bit before they were
ready for the 20 words per minute test) has increased the technical
competence of amateur radio.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




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Jim Hampton wrote:
Well, I just saw a post. Interesting problem from a brand-new 1X2 call.
Seems he had a fairly high SWR on his beam so to keep water out of the
traps, he sealed the holes in the traps. The beam is mounted on conduit 20
feet off the ground and now his SWR is *extremely* high on 20 and 15 meters.
So, someone kindly explain how elimination of any waiting period for the
extra class license and virtual elimination of the code (no, I'm not a
pro-coder; it just forced folks to wait and learn a bit before they were
ready for the 20 words per minute test) has increased the technical
competence of amateur radio.

Those are some of the reasons I advocate a return to the waiting period
before advanced ticket upgrades.

And I say that from personal experience. An Extra *should* be
essentially an expert in the ARS.

Oops, is that a "filter" or "hazing" like Morse code is?

- Mike KB3EIA -

From: Mike Coslo

Those are some of the reasons I advocate a return to the waiting period
before advanced ticket upgrades.

I disagree. A waiting period would be unfair. If the person has prepared
themseleves well, they may well have the ability for the upgrade. Why slow down
someone that has the ability for the upgrade?

And I say that from personal experience. An Extra *should* be
essentially an expert in the ARS.

Thats what the license should imply. Each licence upgrade should have higher
skill than the previous license

Most of the clubs don't want to focus on technical skills. Most clubs focus on
contesting, antennas, and CW. Clubs could do homebrewing, tuning, radio
direction finding, or other technical areas.

Oops, is that a "filter" or "hazing" like Morse code is?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Morse code is a bullying tactic to force this skill at the expense of other
skills. Morse code is not a "filter". It blocks entry to the General class
license. It is an irrelevant skill, used as an obstacle.

Vshah101 wrote:
From: Mike Coslo


Those are some of the reasons I advocate a return to the waiting period
before advanced ticket upgrades.


I disagree. A waiting period would be unfair. If the person has prepared
themseleves well, they may well have the ability for the upgrade. Why slow down
someone that has the ability for the upgrade?

Perhaps you are not aware of it, but there is a LOT more to the ARS
than just the test for each level. When I was unlicensed, I could have
studied for and passed the Extra exam. But I wouldn't have been much of
an extra.

It is simlar in some ways to driving a car You could read a lot of
information about driving a car, but nothing makes you a good driver
like experience behind the wheel.


And I say that from personal experience. An Extra *should* be
essentially an expert in the ARS.

Sure. Assuming that the prospective amateur gets some more experience.

Thats what the license should imply. Each licence upgrade should have higher
skill than the previous license

Most of the clubs don't want to focus on technical skills. Most clubs focus on
contesting, antennas, and CW. Clubs could do homebrewing, tuning, radio
direction finding, or other technical areas.

You do have a one track mind, eh? We've been through that one enough.


Oops, is that a "filter" or "hazing" like Morse code is?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Morse code is a bullying tactic to force this skill at the expense of other
skills. Morse code is not a "filter". It blocks entry to the General class
license. It is an irrelevant skill, used as an obstacle.

My sympathy.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article 3f10550c@shknews01, "LA Davies" writes:

It's the "I'm better than you" attitude that is ruining the hobby. People
like Larry and Steve, are old and want the CW to stay, as a "hazing" thing.

Lloyd:

Actually, it's the "I couldn't be bothered to become as good as you" attitude
which is ruining our hobby.

I'm afraid thoese days are going the way of the dinosour........

Well, then, once you get your No-Code Extra, we will all be looking forward
to all those amazing technical advances you will personnaly create for the
benefit of the ARS! You see, I am one prehistoric reptile who has never
claimed to have anything more than AMATEUR-level technical skills -- as
has been the traditional requirement for this service. However, since the
NCTA has always claimed that code testing was standing in the way of
technical progress in amateur radio, we shall soon see whether those
claims are, in fact, valid -- or just empty blasts of hot air used to justify
the elimination of a licensing requirement which produced a cadre of
hams with useful, effective communications skills.

73 de Larry, K3LT