On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 06:35:08 -0500, "Kim W5TIT"
wrote:


I remember a long time ago in this newsgroup, accusing some of using the CW
test as a filtering tool. I was nearly lambasted to Timbuktu.

Too bad you fell short, I need Timbuktu. :-)

Now, it's popular and OK to just make the declaration!

Popular? Perhaps, in some circles. Popularity doesn't prove
correctness, though.

I'd point out that Hitler was pretty popular in Germany once upon a
time, but N2EY might call up the Godwin's Law police and have them
lock me up, so how about...burning witches at the stake used to be
pretty popular once upon a time.

If CW is used as a "filter" to keep anyone of the ARS; then it's plain
wrong.

Doesn't keep anybody out of the ARS anyway. Just keeps them from
getting a license that grants HF privileges, forcing them to either
find a control operator who's passed a code test, or work VHF/UHF.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...

I just don't believe the public OR the government would tolerate CB on the

same level as ham radio has long existed. And that's exactly where it's
headed,
and has been for too many years.

Thats kind of nonsense wording, but I gather that the Code Exam "as a
barrier to idiots" doesn't work?

It's certainly no surprise that you'd view it that way .

I didn't.

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ...


I remember a long time ago in this newsgroup, accusing some of using the CW
test as a filtering tool. I was nearly lambasted to Timbuktu. Now, it's
popular and OK to just make the declaration!

If CW is used as a "filter" to keep anyone of the ARS; then it's plain
wrong.

Kim W5TIT

Aaron Jones was keeping the "Morse Myths" list. That one was probably
in the top ten.

In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:

I'd point out that Hitler was pretty popular in Germany once upon a
time, but N2EY might call up the Godwin's Law police and have them
lock me up, so how about...burning witches at the stake used to be
pretty popular once upon a time.

I just mentioned Godwin's Law. I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

If CW is used as a "filter" to keep anyone of the ARS; then it's plain
wrong.

Doesn't keep anybody out of the ARS anyway. Just keeps them from
getting a license that grants HF privileges, forcing them to either
find a control operator who's passed a code test, or work VHF/UHF.

Or they can just pass the test.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Dick Carroll; wrote:
. You know as well as anyone, better than most, that almost the
only
"enforcement" we've had on the ARS for many years
prior to Riley's appointment WAS the code test.

Now, a 'difficult' (for that type of individual) test which
discourages,
yea, FILTERS him from active, open participation is a poor
excuse for monitor vans and well trained and equipped crews.
But it's what we had.

Now we have Riley and a 5wpm code test. Soon only Riley. When
he goes, I
for one believe the ARS will follow his exit, not far behind. By
that time
there
will be far more than adequate evidence that the ARS is no
longer a viable
self- policing entity, staffed with conscientious people willing
and able to
conduct themselves in a manner commensurate with the priveleges
granted,
most of which will shortly be summarily withdrawn.

Dick,

EVERY time there has been change of any real sort in ham radio, there
have been cranky olde fartz like you preaching "end of the world" doom
and gloom ... and every time it has not come to pass ...

Witness:

conversion from spark to CW;
conversion from AM to SSB;
introduction of packet radio and other "new-fangled @^#%$ computer
thingies";
the introduction of the no-code Tech license;
restructuring 3 years ago;

and many others I'm sure I've omitted.

The point is, the world (and ham radio) is NOT going to end ... despite
your rants that it is.

Actually, on the contrary, if these changes hadn't happened and we were
still stuck in the spark era (i.e., if cranky olde fartz like you had
stopped
the progress of ham radio over the years), we WOULD be in danger.

If you want to see what presents the biggest danger to the future of
ham radio LOOK IN THE MIRROR ... the enemy you fear is yourself,
with your backward thinking, unwillingness to accept progress, and lack
of tolerance for newcomers (unless, of course, they've suffered through
the same fraternity hazing rituals that you had to endure, lo those many
years ago and think in exactly the backward, narrowminded ways that
you do).

When you're done looking in the mirror, you can look a your cronies,
Larry, Dave Heil, and the whole list of like-thinkers... they are also
part of the enemy you fear ... for they think and act essentially the
same way as you do.

THERE is where the REAL danger to the future of ham radio lies ...
in people who are so married to/stuck in its past that they despise
any thought of change, progress, and the newcomers that it will
bring (unless the newcomers are acceptable "clones" cast in your
own image).

However, those newcomers are the future of ham radio ... for us older
guys will surely die, and if there aren't younger folks to replace us ham
radio will die with us. It's up to us to WELCOME and ENCOURAGE
them ... their ways will not be the ways of the past ... things change and
nobody can freeze time. But insulting, berating, demeaning them, and trying
to keep them out is not the way ...

Think about these things long and hard before you look yourself in
the mirror again ... without some reflection, reconsideration, and change
in your ways, you may not like what you see ... the enemy that is YOU.

(Try to be *completely* like Scrooge ... go through the change, don't stay
stuck in the first part ...)

Carl - wk3c

N2EY wrote:
In article , Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
writes:


I'd point out that Hitler was pretty popular in Germany once upon a
time, but N2EY might call up the Godwin's Law police and have them
lock me up, so how about...burning witches at the stake used to be
pretty popular once upon a time.


I just mentioned Godwin's Law. I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

NO one expects the Spanish Inquisition!


If CW is used as a "filter" to keep anyone of the ARS; then it's plain
wrong.

Doesn't keep anybody out of the ARS anyway. Just keeps them from
getting a license that grants HF privileges, forcing them to either
find a control operator who's passed a code test, or work VHF/UHF.


Or they can just pass the test.


Too hard, too hard!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote:

Dick Carroll; wrote:
. You know as well as anyone, better than most, that almost the
only
"enforcement" we've had on the ARS for many years
prior to Riley's appointment WAS the code test.

Now, a 'difficult' (for that type of individual) test which
discourages,
yea, FILTERS him from active, open participation is a poor
excuse for monitor vans and well trained and equipped crews.
But it's what we had.

Now we have Riley and a 5wpm code test. Soon only Riley. When
he goes, I
for one believe the ARS will follow his exit, not far behind. By
that time
there
will be far more than adequate evidence that the ARS is no
longer a viable
self- policing entity, staffed with conscientious people willing
and able to
conduct themselves in a manner commensurate with the priveleges
granted,
most of which will shortly be summarily withdrawn.

Dick,

EVERY time there has been change of any real sort in ham radio, there
have been cranky olde fartz like you preaching "end of the world" doom
and gloom ... and every time it has not come to pass ...

Witness:

conversion from spark to CW;
conversion from AM to SSB;
introduction of packet radio and other "new-fangled @^#%$ computer
thingies";
the introduction of the no-code Tech license;
restructuring 3 years ago;

and many others I'm sure I've omitted.

The conversion of Saint Carl?

The point is, the world (and ham radio) is NOT going to end ... despite
your rants that it is.

Actually, on the contrary, if these changes hadn't happened and we were
still stuck in the spark era (i.e., if cranky olde fartz like you had
stopped
the progress of ham radio over the years), we WOULD be in danger.

You aren't much younger than I am, Carl. You just haven't been involved
in amateur radio as long. Further, you remained a tech for a couple of
decades until the morse testing speed was dropped. Since that time,
you've become an HF SSB op. This latest rant shows you to be as cranky
as anyone else here.

If you want to see what presents the biggest danger to the future of
ham radio LOOK IN THE MIRROR ... the enemy you fear is yourself,
with your backward thinking, unwillingness to accept progress, and lack
of tolerance for newcomers (unless, of course, they've suffered through
the same fraternity hazing rituals that you had to endure, lo those many
years ago and think in exactly the backward, narrowminded ways that
you do).

When you're done looking in the mirror, you can look a your cronies,
Larry, Dave Heil, and the whole list of like-thinkers... they are also
part of the enemy you fear ... for they think and act essentially the
same way as you do.

I note that you've reverted to your original "Big Mouth Carl" persona,
Squiggy. The leopard does not change his spots, even if they fade and
his coat begins to look a little worn and thin in places. Your tirade
includes some tired and quite familiar terms like "fraternity hazing
rituals", "suffered" and "endure", "backward" and "narrowminded".

THERE is where the REAL danger to the future of ham radio lies ...
in people who are so married to/stuck in its past that they despise
any thought of change, progress, and the newcomers that it will
bring (unless the newcomers are acceptable "clones" cast in your
own image).

I submit that you don't really know where the "REAL" danger to the
future of ham radio lies. Simply lowering requirements and standards is
not "progress" in anyone's book. Newcomers have always been welcomed if
they're good ops. A lid is a lid and we already have enough of them.

However, those newcomers are the future of ham radio ... for us older
guys will surely die, and if there aren't younger folks to replace us ham
radio will die with us.

There have always been newcomers in amateur radio. Old timers always
die and newcomers always arrive. Newcomers may be the future (a great
many newcomers have gray hair) but we're the present, not the past. The
future has not yet arrived. Even you don't know what the future holds,
as much as you'd like to see yourself as a visionary.


It's up to us to WELCOME and ENCOURAGE
them ... their ways will not be the ways of the past ... things change and
nobody can freeze time.

I welcome and encourage them. Some of them will become good ops. Some
won't.

But insulting, berating, demeaning them, and trying
to keep them out is not the way ...

I'm not insulting, berating or demeaning them. I might insult, berate
and demean you but not them. Newcomers aren't required to take
responsibility for you.

Think about these things long and hard before you look yourself in
the mirror again ... without some reflection, reconsideration, and change
in your ways, you may not like what you see ... the enemy that is YOU.

I'll take your sermon to heart about the time you begin telling us of
your own soul searching, reflection and reconsideration of opinions
which are unlike your own. Let us know if you like what you see.

(Try to be *completely* like Scrooge ... go through the change, don't stay stuck in the first part ...)

Quit rattling your chains and moaning.

Dave K8MN

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...


If you're really that stupid you're to be pityed on the level of one who
is mentally
handicapped.In facxt it seems your hatred for morse code has caused you
some
serious REAL mental difficulties, or you surely wouldn't go off on such
idiotic
rants.


Ditto for your zeal for it, Dick.

Kim W5TIT

We have met the enemy and they are us -- From "Pogo" by Walt Kelly --
1960's


"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...
Think about these things long and hard before you look yourself in
the mirror again ... without some reflection, reconsideration, and change
in your ways, you may not like what you see ... the enemy that is YOU.

(Try to be *completely* like Scrooge ... go through the change, don't stay
stuck in the first part ...)

Carl - wk3c

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ...

You are quite dislikable, whether you realize it or not. And you do seem to
approach life from the comfort zone...

Kim W5TIT

Probably from a lifetime of work and play in a radio shack. He needs
to get out more often.

Brian