"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message
v.net...
FYI, folks here are QSX when they're monitoring
the frequency. I rarely hear the annoying "I'm QRT and on the side"
anymore,
thank goodness. :-)

I was involved in trying to use CB for it's original intended purpose
in the mid-'70s in 23 channel days. Specifically for comms for a
municipal Townwatch group of 135 citizens 95% of whom had no interest
at all in hobby radio and just wanted reasonably decent local
neighborhood mobile comms.

You just can't legislate propagation. Even if all the users complied with
the 155.3 mi. limit, the QRM from legal comms in distant places makes local
work difficult, if not impossible. I've experienced a S7 noise level from
distant comms personally and the guy in Germany came in clearer than someone
across town. When the band's open, 12 Watts will work the world.

The disgusted group would have fallen apart
if I hadn't moved the operation up onto a VHF business freq to get
away from the CB crud. Cost a bundle but they're still on that freq.

Good "heads-up" move.

Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to
do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent life.
On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts maybe
five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq.

Sorry to hear that, Brian. Do you operate AM or SSB? I've had good luck on
channels 36 through 40 using SSB.

YMMV . . !

It sure does.

w3rv

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ...
Bert,

I don't mean to just break in on your argument with Phil, but consider what
we are going through in Rochester, NY. Taxes are sky high, we lost over
800,000 people in New York since the mid 90s (jobs disappearing, wages going
down, taxes going up).

Many of them are moving across the state lines to NJ or PA, etc.

California has a similar problem. There is an exodus of non-immigrant
Americans from the Golden State for similar reasons. The turnaround
point was about 1995. Only massive immigration keeps CA numbers up.

Obviously, the local governments are trying to cut
budgets. Police and firemen are not being replaced as they retire or quit.
Enforcement is spotty at best. We just had a large block burn down in the
city due to arson a few months ago. People were doing oil changes in the
streets (if not stripping cars) and oil was left in the streets. Laws were
passed, but weren't favored by a lot of folks. Loud booming radios were
causing problems. Laws were passed, but ignored. Those folks that you
think believe in the American Way started pushing the envelope. There is
now a severe drug problem (heck, if I'm not hurting anyone, it isn't any of
your business). We now have the second highest murder rate in New York
outside of New York City!

WOW!

Worse than Buffalo or Albany?

The problem is that there is little enforcement,
and some folks get emboldened.

Bingo.

It starts out with little things....

Locally, they have a new tact. There are
now City of Rochester Police, Monroe County Sheriffs, and New York State
Troopers patrolling Rochester. Go ahead, spit your gum out. If you're
seen, you will get a ticket. Any violation, no matter how minor, and you
will get stopped. You may not be searched, but pray you don't have anything
visible in your car that you shouldn't (like a little bag with some white
powder in it). They are starting real enforcement and there will be a lot
of minor violators that will end up paying some stiff fines.

I understand that this "zero tolerance" approach was done in New York
City under Rudy Giuliani. Things like turnstile-jumping, graffiti,
even jaywalking were jumped on with both feet by law enforcement AND
backed up by the courts. One side effect was that a considerable
number of folks for whom there were bench warrants were brought in for
minor violations and kept. Another was that major crime dropped.

I don't see
any other way around the situation here; I also don't see things getting any
better in the radio business without some *serious* enforcement. That would
include the skip-shooting - at least until things quiet down to a dull roar.
The lack of enforcement (regardless of cause, which is invariably lack of
funds) is not only allowing things to get worse, it is actively promoting
things to get worse.

Yup. And it's a gradual thing that shows up in many ways. Similar to
when a neighborhood goes downhill. It starts with little things like
not taking care of properties and not reining in minor offenses. But
it doesn't stop there.
Pretty soon most of the people who can move out are gone.

This is not a minor problem in amateur radio. There's all sorts of
talk about young people not wanting to learn the code, yada yada yada,
but not much about how the antics of a few can turn off young people
and their parents. And if that happens, forget about recruitment.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message
t...
You just can't legislate propagation. Even if all the users complied
with
the 155.3 mi. limit, the QRM from legal comms in distant places makes
local
work difficult, if not impossible. I've experienced a S7 noise level
from
distant comms personally and the guy in Germany came in clearer than
someone
across town. When the band's open, 12 Watts will work the world.

I'm reasonably conversant on the topic of HF propagation, I hold
5BDXCC #142 dated April '72. Which I had before I got into working
with this TW group. This is a densly populated region (Philly) and
there were/are enough garbage mouthed CB locals to jam the TW comms
without any help from distant skip-shooters.

Sorry OM, I didn't mean to "lecture" re. HF propagation. Just relating my
own personal experiences. Sorry to hear about the garbage mouthed locals.
The only real problem I've experienced up here is the "splatter" from the
really high powered (Multi-kW) guys running AM on ch. 6. An additional IF
filter to increase the ACR of the rig solved that problem.

Sorry to hear that, Brian. Do you operate AM or SSB? I've had good luck
on
channels 36 through 40 using SSB.

SSB. Any channel which seems to have intelligent life. Maybe I'll take
another look in a couple years.

Hope you have better luck. :-)

W3RV/KLK1937

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
JJ wrote:



Brian Kelly wrote:


Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to
do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent life.
On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts maybe
five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq.

YMMV . . !
w3rv


So as to the subject "Do Hams get 11 Meters Back", I ask, "why in the
world would hams want 11 meters back?" Eleven meters is the perfect
example of what happens when rules are thrown out the window, total
chaos. The cber's have managed to make it the sewer pit of the radio
spectrum and the sad part is they can't even keep it in their own
territory, they have to spew their garbage to other frequencies as well.
The fact that hams in general follow the rules, and expect other
operators to do the same is what keeps many cber's from getting a
license. I say, "good riddance, we don't need those types in ham radio."

There's another angle to this "losing 11M" topic. The band was
essentially ignored by hams, we didn't lose anything in that sense.
Part of the reason was the high level of RF crud (shades of BPL . .!)
tossed out by high-powered unlicensed industrial and medical
equipment. The junk was all over the band particularly in urban areas.
A second and a big reason the band was grossly underutilized was that
there was little or no DX on 11M. Third, the neighboring 10M band at
1.7 Mhz wide had, and still has more than enough bandwidth to
accomodate anybody who wants to operate on the band without the
crowded condx on the rest of our HF bands.


It WILL be interesting to see how many of them leap on a code-free HF
license though, won't it?

Prolly great heaps of 'em will do it. What the hell, they'll be almost
free. But then the show will be pretty much over. There will be
noticable shifts in the volumes of Techs vs. new Generals and Extras.
And maybe, just maybe a few non-hams will jump in. So we'll see a
short, small blip in the growth numbers a la 1991-92 then it'll drop
back to bizness as usual.

I'm more interested in what the new-wave codeless wonders will
actually do with their new privs. Will they pop the bucks for the
expensive HF gear then put the work into the antennas? Some will of
course but only a fraction of 'em. The question in my mind is whether
that fraction will be large enough to have any noticeable impact at
all on the HF bands. I very seriously doubt it, my bet is that most of
'em won't bother, they'll stay on the machines and the only obvious
results of the whole regulatory lurch will be in the nut-and-shell
games in the FCC database.

w3rv

Good post, Jim

I do agree with you about the antics of a few. A few Yahoo groups have
started - at least one of them with the premise of no flames and everyone is
welcome. I can't believe how rapidly it has grown (nor can I believe how
many new licenses have been obtained). Unbelievable what can be
accomplished when you get rid of the finger pointing (and the new folks,
both those without tickets and those who have just obtained them are asking
questions about operating procedures, antennas, coax - all the kinds of
questions that so many other groups could cover if they just got past the
finger pointing and flames).


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



---
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"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...


JJ wrote:



Brian Kelly wrote:


Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to
do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent life.
On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts maybe
five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq.

YMMV . . !
w3rv


So as to the subject "Do Hams get 11 Meters Back", I ask, "why in the
world would hams want 11 meters back?" Eleven meters is the perfect
example of what happens when rules are thrown out the window, total
chaos. The cber's have managed to make it the sewer pit of the radio
spectrum and the sad part is they can't even keep it in their own
territory, they have to spew their garbage to other frequencies as well.
The fact that hams in general follow the rules, and expect other
operators to do the same is what keeps many cber's from getting a
license. I say, "good riddance, we don't need those types in ham radio."



It WILL be interesting to see how many of them leap on a code-free HF
license though, won't it?


It will be OUR FAULT if we allow that type of operation. Get ready for the
fight.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote:
"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...


JJ wrote:



Brian Kelly wrote:


Every once in a blue moon when I've had absolutely nothing better to
do with my life I've gotten on 27Mhz and looked for intelligent
life. On the rare occasions when I've actually found some it lasts
maybe five minutes at most before the bozos blow it off the freq.

YMMV . . !
w3rv


So as to the subject "Do Hams get 11 Meters Back", I ask, "why in the
world would hams want 11 meters back?" Eleven meters is the perfect
example of what happens when rules are thrown out the window, total
chaos. The cber's have managed to make it the sewer pit of the radio
spectrum and the sad part is they can't even keep it in their own
territory, they have to spew their garbage to other frequencies as
well. The fact that hams in general follow the rules, and expect
other operators to do the same is what keeps many cber's from getting
a license. I say, "good riddance, we don't need those types in ham
radio."



It WILL be interesting to see how many of them leap on a code-free HF
license though, won't it?


It will be OUR FAULT if we allow that type of operation. Get ready for
the fight.

Dan/W4NTI

Get ready for a wooshing sound, that will be the stampede of no codes
and outlaws flooding your hallowed ground, little man. You brought
it all on..

--
GO# 40

"Cool Breeze" spade#abc.com wrote:
wrote in message
...
Get ready for a wooshing sound, that will be the stampede of no codes
and outlaws flooding your hallowed ground, little man. You brought
it all on..

--
GO# 40

Are you a Ham ??? What are you doing in this
NG???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????
??? ????

I enjoy watching assholes like you and dan squirm.

--
GO# 40

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 10:23:46 -0400, "Cool Breeze" spade#abc.com
wrote:


wrote in message
...
Get ready for a wooshing sound, that will be the stampede of no codes
and outlaws flooding your hallowed ground, little man. You brought
it all on..

--
GO# 40

Are you a Ham ??? What are you doing in this
NG??????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????
????


To answer your queries in order:

1. Probably not.

2. Trolling.

73 DE John, KC2HMZ

On 09 Aug 2003 15:12:31 GMT, wrote:

I enjoy watching assholes like you and dan squirm.

Kinda like you when you take a code test, eh?