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Some do both and after all...passing the 13-wpm
test IS an accomplishment and something worthy of being proud of. Jason Hsu, AG4DG Which the No-Code Knuckle Draggers will never be able to do. This alone will keep them always as second rate Hams with CB, being there main accomplishment |
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On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, N2EY wrote:
In article , (Jason Hsu) writes: I found this comment on eham.net: "I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm. It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from gaining acess to our bands. " The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof of code speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm. Although true, the fact of a waiver is in the FCC's database (there's a field for it). As an excuse not to upgrade to extra, it's probably one of the lamest ideas around. Upon upgrade, one will still have the "prior class held" field that will say advanced, so with the combination of these two data fields, we will know that a person once held an advanced class license WITHOUT the medical waiver and thus officially passed the 13wpm code element. [Whether or not the person actually took the test or just paid for his license will generally never be known!] To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who failed to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit for the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only for a 3.5 month window... What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30 session I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to general no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect.... Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof of code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per. When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19, 2000 extras). I know it's a free country, and there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe. If somebody wants to know my code skills and technical knowledge, I don't point to a license test I took in 1970. Instead, I just show 'em. Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests. We do! 13 wpm isn't high speed, tho. All the Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam requirements years ago. Not even that. Medical waivers, etc. ... |
Jason, meet Bruce Bunion, WA8ULX. He's one of the originators of the
"I won't upgrade" Advanced Operators Club. What's his most recent claim to fame? Run his call on QRZ and see. I may have said that, but when I could collect $250.00 on a BET to upgrade I did. But dont worry Brian I still have not used the EXTRA Privilages. By the way Jason, Brian is one of the Weenies who couldnt make it above Tech untill the Welfare upgrade came out. He also claimed the CW was the only thing that was holding him back from Upgrading. And that the Written Test were no problem. After a year he still cant pass the EXTRA. Hes waiting for the next give away so he can upgrade. |
In article , "D. Stussy"
writes: On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, N2EY wrote: In article , (Jason Hsu) writes: I found this comment on eham.net: "I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm. It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from gaining acess to our bands. " The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof of code speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm. Although true, the fact of a waiver is in the FCC's database (there's a field for it). True - but you have to dig up the database and know what to look for. The license itself doesn't show waiver status, IIRC. As an excuse not to upgrade to extra, it's probably one of the lamest ideas around. Agreed! Upon upgrade, one will still have the "prior class held" field that will say advanced, so with the combination of these two data fields, we will know that a person once held an advanced class license WITHOUT the medical waiver and thus officially passed the 13wpm code element. Not in all cases. Look me up in the data base - no entry for "former license class", even though I was Advanced from 1968 to 1970 (old 2 year waiting period) [Whether or not the person actually took the test or just paid for his license will generally never be known!] "just paid for his license"? To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who failed to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit for the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only for a 3.5 month window... Maybe. But I think current Element 4 is no harder than old Element 4B. What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30 session I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to general no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect.... I'm not surprised. Many hams I know do not follow the rules changes anywhere near as closely as some of us do. Look at restructuring - out of over 678,000 hams, FCC got 2200 or so comments. Some folks are just finding out what the changes mean. And with 10 year renewals, folks who don't move around have very little interaction with FCC license procedures. The facts are often twisted in the retelling, too. Look at the misunderstanding about Element 1 and Technicians.... Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof of code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per. When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19, 2000 extras). But you need more info that just the fact that the person holds a certain license class. I know it's a free country, and there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe. If somebody wants to know my code skills and technical knowledge, I don't point to a license test I took in 1970. Instead, I just show 'em. Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests. We do! 13 wpm isn't high speed, tho. All the Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam requirements years ago. Not even that. Medical waivers, etc. ... Fun fact: From May 14 2000 to July 31, 2003, the number of Advanceds dropped from 99,782 to 83,141. That includes upgrades to Extra and dropouts. Only a 17% decline in over three years. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Jason,
W2NSD comes to mind ;) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "Jason Hsu" wrote in message om... I found this comment on eham.net: "I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm. It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from gaining acess to our bands. " Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? I know it's a free country, and there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe. Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests. All the Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam requirements years ago. It says nothing about what you have been doing since. People who want to brag about their Morse Code proficiency can do so much less obnoxiously by actually USING it on the air. Jason Hsu, AG4DG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 |
Jim,
I found my old 2nd class commercial telegraph ticket. Would that support the no medical waivers? Of course, does that prove I could still do 20 words per minute (which is the question you have been asking; good question indeed). Gad, I've got but about two weeks and my license expires. Now to go search the FCC website ... :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "D. Stussy" writes: On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, N2EY wrote: In article , (Jason Hsu) writes: I found this comment on eham.net: "I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm. It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from gaining acess to our bands. " The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof of code speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm. Although true, the fact of a waiver is in the FCC's database (there's a field for it). True - but you have to dig up the database and know what to look for. The license itself doesn't show waiver status, IIRC. As an excuse not to upgrade to extra, it's probably one of the lamest ideas around. Agreed! Upon upgrade, one will still have the "prior class held" field that will say advanced, so with the combination of these two data fields, we will know that a person once held an advanced class license WITHOUT the medical waiver and thus officially passed the 13wpm code element. Not in all cases. Look me up in the data base - no entry for "former license class", even though I was Advanced from 1968 to 1970 (old 2 year waiting period) [Whether or not the person actually took the test or just paid for his license will generally never be known!] "just paid for his license"? To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who failed to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit for the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only for a 3.5 month window... Maybe. But I think current Element 4 is no harder than old Element 4B. What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30 session I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to general no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect.... I'm not surprised. Many hams I know do not follow the rules changes anywhere near as closely as some of us do. Look at restructuring - out of over 678,000 hams, FCC got 2200 or so comments. Some folks are just finding out what the changes mean. And with 10 year renewals, folks who don't move around have very little interaction with FCC license procedures. The facts are often twisted in the retelling, too. Look at the misunderstanding about Element 1 and Technicians.... Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof of code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per. When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19, 2000 extras). But you need more info that just the fact that the person holds a certain license class. I know it's a free country, and there are also many Advanced licensees who decide that the extra privileges aren't worth going to the trouble of studying up and going to the VE session, but I find this hard to believe. If somebody wants to know my code skills and technical knowledge, I don't point to a license test I took in 1970. Instead, I just show 'em. Anyone who thinks Morse Code is that important should try OPERATING high-speed Morse Code and participate in Morse Code contests. We do! 13 wpm isn't high speed, tho. All the Advanced license proves is that you passed 13 wpm and the other exam requirements years ago. Not even that. Medical waivers, etc. ... Fun fact: From May 14 2000 to July 31, 2003, the number of Advanceds dropped from 99,782 to 83,141. That includes upgrades to Extra and dropouts. Only a 17% decline in over three years. 73 de Jim, N2EY --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 |
What a dumb thread -- hey it is their license -- they can upgrade, keep it
the same, let it expire, whatever. I know a lot of advanced licensees that are perfectly happy where they are and don't need to give any dumb rationale for their decisions. Also know lots of Hams who are extra class and keep the old 2X2 advanced call because they like it or have gotten very used to it. -- 73 From The Signal In The Noise Caveat Lector Ya All ------------------------------------------------------ |
In article , "Jim Hampton"
writes: I found my old 2nd class commercial telegraph ticket. I've still got my 1970 Extra document. Would that support the no medical waivers? Bingo. Of course, does that prove I could still do 20 words per minute (which is the question you have been asking; good question indeed). 'zactly. Gad, I've got but about two weeks and my license expires. Now to go search the FCC website ... :) You can renew online or do what I did: download the PDF for the Form 605, fill it out and drop in the mail. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
D. Stussy wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, N2EY wrote: In article , (Jason Hsu) writes: I found this comment on eham.net: "I hold the OLD ADVANCED license and it is a matter of prestidge. I had to have 13 wpm to get to this level and now they want to do away with ALL CW? Keep at least the 5 wpm. It is too easy to pass a written exam. The code kept the CB crowd from gaining acess to our bands. " The fact of the matter is that simply having an Advanced is not proof of code speed. Since 1990, medical waivers were available for 13 and 20 wpm. Although true, the fact of a waiver is in the FCC's database (there's a field for it). As an excuse not to upgrade to extra, it's probably one of the lamest ideas around. Upon upgrade, one will still have the "prior class held" field that will say advanced, so with the combination of these two data fields, we will know that a person once held an advanced class license WITHOUT the medical waiver and thus officially passed the 13wpm code element. [Whether or not the person actually took the test or just paid for his license will generally never be known!] To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who failed to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit for the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only for a 3.5 month window... What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30 session I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to general no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect.... Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof of code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per. When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19, 2000 extras). Oh good! I got my extra on April 15, 2000 so I beat that deadline. :-) |
"D. Stussy" wrote in message .org...
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, Robert Casey wrote: When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19, 2000 extras). Oh good! I got my extra on April 15, 2000 so I beat that deadline. :-) NOT SO FAST: It was processed on April 18th, not the 15th. However, that is still the day before the first "no-test" upgrades were processed, so we can still tell that you have either a 20wpm extra or a waiver extra Waiver Extra? This is the part where Dan Finn tackled me and said I was making fun of disabled people. I wonder how he'll treat your use of the phrase? (based only on the date - obviously more info needed to know which one of those). The first "restructured" sessions on 4/15/2000 had results processed on April 19th. Of course, your address change in December 2000 will obscure that fact for most of the callbook users out there... but not me! ;-) ----- What I fould really obnoxious is that for some test sessions in April 2000, some VEC's had problems when the FCC changed their submission formats slightly (because of the rules change) and some April sessions didn't have results show up until mid-June 2000. It is possible that some 20wpm extras didn't have their licenses issued until AFTER April 18th and by date are indistinguishable from what some in this group called "extra lite." And what I find obnoxious is that some people here continue to make the distinction. |
How easily you drop your convictions.
How easy it was to take $250 from some Brain Dead CBplussers |
In article , "D. Stussy"
writes: On Mon, 1 Sep 2003, N2EY wrote: "just paid for his license"? I certainly don't mean the $12 testing fee (by the ARRL teams, or the equvalent amount for teams under other VEC's).... Yes, some people have probably "bought" their licenses in the past.... I don't have reliable evidence of any such fraud by either FCC or oldstyle volunteer examiners (no caps).. Doesn't mean it never happened, just that I've never seen any. There *was* a vanity call selling operation that got an FCC employee time in the Federal pokey (see posts by K2ASP for verification). And many of us consider what Bash did to have been a rules violation. One scam that was going on back in FCC days were a few people taking tests for others. FCC started asking for ID and taking signatures. There were some VE teams in this area busted about 8 years ago for doing exactly that (supposedly, an extra cost $1k). omigawd... I occasionally see enforcement actions in the log where FCC calls people in for a retest. Some do not show, some do show and fail, some show and pass. To me, the statement is more typical of some advanced class sourpuss who failed to take advantage of the transitional rule back in 2000 and obtain credit for the easier element 4B than the current element 4. Granted that was only for a 3.5 month window... Maybe. But I think current Element 4 is no harder than old Element 4B. I disagree. All the "hard" questions in the current Element 4 came from the Element 4A part of the former tests. The former Element 4B was much easier than 4A. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. But consider this: Old Element 4A was 50 questions and old 4B was 40. Each was graded separately, so if you were even one short on the allegedly harder 4A, you could not even get to 4B. New Element 4 is 50 questions from a combined pool. So if old 4A was "hard" and 4B was "easy", then combining the two and reducing the total questions from 90 to 50 effectively dilutes the test. btw, I passed old 4A in 1968 as a 14 year old in the summer between 8th and 9th grades. Back before Bashbooks and question pools. How hard could it have been? What surprises me is this: There are still some people (the August 30 session I did had two such people) who are coming in for their pre-87-tech to general no test upgrades, 3+ years after the rules change went into effect.... I'm not surprised. Many hams I know do not follow the rules changes anywhere near as closely as some of us do. Look at restructuring - out of over 678,000 hams, FCC got 2200 or so comments. Are you in a "high population" area? I am: Southern California. Me too: metro Philadelphia. Along the Northeast Corridor, sometimes called Boswash (Boston-to-Washington). News of rules changes gets around quickly over here... even among the clueless. I agree that there may be places (e.g. midwest, rural farming states) where knowledge of the changes has yet to permeate.... There are a lot of folks who simply haven't gotten the word, tho, or who don't care. How else to explain the relatively small decline in Advanceds? Some folks are just finding out what the changes mean. And with 10 year renewals, folks who don't move around have very little interaction with FCC license procedures. The facts are often twisted in the retelling, too. Look at the misunderstanding about Element 1 and Technicians.... Is this for real? Are there REALLY people with Advanced licenses who refuse to upgrade to Amateur Extra SIMPLY because they feel the need to prove they passed the 13 wpm exam? There are some misguided folks who think that, but in fact it's not a proof of code speed any more than my Extra is proof of 20 per. When it is known that a medical waiver wasn't used, it is (for pre April 19, 2000 extras). But you need more info that just the fact that the person holds a certain license class. I didn't say such wasn't true. All I said is that for some, such is KNOWN. Sure. Point is, the same can be said for any license class. Just having an Advanced proves only that the person did 5 wpm once-upon-a-time Fun fact: From May 14 2000 to July 31, 2003, the number of Advanceds dropped from 99,782 to 83,141. That includes upgrades to Extra and dropouts. Only a 17% decline in over three years. You should probably go back another 29 days to have a good total: Many upgrades happened in that month you omit. The reasons I chose May 14 we 1) I had those numbers available 2) It is long enough after April 15 that any pre-restructuring applications had gotten through the FCC "pipeline". 73 de Jim, N2EY |
On 1 Sep 2003 07:12:20 GMT, "Dick Carroll;" wrote:
Hans Kohb wrote: 73, de Hans, K0HB (Who never took the Advanced test, went from Conditional to Amateur Extra.) That's exactly what I did. Dick As did my father. As for me, my Extra class license showed up in the mail a week before my Advanced licence. This of course was back in 1992, and the FCC was getting better about issuing licences, instead of the 6 month wait like I had to go through with the Novice licence. AA7YA - ex-KB7PKE (Novice to Extra in 12 months: Novice issued 8/24/92 : Extra issued 8/24/93) |
ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message ...
In article , (Brian) writes: Jason, meet Bruce Bunion, WA8ULX. He's one of the originators of the "I won't upgrade" Advanced Operators Club. What's his most recent claim to fame? Run his call on QRZ and see. Brian: It seems like Bruce Beynon is doing OK for a guy who's 305 years old! Bruce isn't doing good for any guy who'se any age. He's pretty much the lowest common denominator on r.r.a.p. OH, I get it now. Bunion. Yes, "bunion." Jim says he doesn't have any minions. I guess Kim would say, ROFLMTO!!! 73 de Larry, K3LT You're fast approaching that lowest common denominator yourself. |
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In article , S. Hanrahan
writes: AA7YA - ex-KB7PKE (Novice to Extra in 12 months: Novice issued 8/24/92 : Extra issued 8/24/93) Not too shabby. I did it in about 18 months in the early '80's, in spite of having to walk through waist-deep snow to get to the FCC Field office, etc. etc. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
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