Another ham-bashing Troll.
Assuming that he means what he says, the guy must be an utter moron... One of those who thinks that ham radio and the Internet "compete" with each other, as if they were rival communications carriers going after the same market... What a dope! Charles Brabham, N5PVL "Y letter Y" wrote in message ... It's too little, too late Hans. Years of keeping the CW requirement and the advent of the Internet as a cheap alternative to Amateur Radio spelled the end of Amateur Radio for those who could see the writing on the wall a VERY long time ago. Add to that a median-age of 67 Yrs for the US Amateur population does not help either - we are LITERALLY dying off. Finally the outrageous cost of ham gear (HF gear) is enough to scare off any prospective newcommer. Who in their right mind wants to spend $2000+ for a Yaesu HF station when for about $400 you can buy a fully equipped "white box" PC with a 56K and DSL modem, and be able to interact worldwide without the use of unsightly dipoles and tri-band beam antennas...? Hans, Amateur Radio is **OBSOLETE**. It's popularity is enjoyed by an extremely small esoteric sector of the populace, and the general public looks at us as a curiosity at best. That is the bottom line . Ken (ex-W3 circa 1985) "K0HB" wrote in message news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@mygat e.mailgate.org... Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925 new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only 2.3%. Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate? 73, de Hans, K0HB -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
Jim,
We might also check the Social Security Death index .. :) I check it daily. If my name isn't in there, it's gonna be a good day :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article ilgate.org, "K0HB" writes: Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925 new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only 2.3%. That rate is so low that the methodology needs examining. IOW, how did the "couple of guys" determine their data? How did they examine the data for every one of those 1,925 licenses? How did they deal with name changes, address changes, and the vanity callsign rule changes? I'm not saying they were dumb or had an ulterior moive, just that their data analysis methods need to be examined. Did they check any other license classes? Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate? Here's one - track down those who did not reup and find out why. 73 de Jim, N2EY --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 8/28/03 |
"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ... Well, there ya go, Hans. One of your subjects heard from. Any further questions? Dick Anybody can have their post answered by a troll. What, did you think that Hans was troll trolling, or something? Charles Brabham, N5PVL |
In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes: "N2EY" wrote in message ... In article , "Kim " writes: FM!!!!!???? (snipped for brevity) That's one reason, Kim, stated in a way that makes a lot of sense. Here's another: Even before 1991, a considerable number of hams in this area (metro Philly) were friends and family members of hams who wanted a way to keep in touch while mobile. The most common setup was the 2-careers/kids/cars household, where the radio was used for all sorts of "honeydew" purposes. You and Jim (Hampton) mentioned this and I had completely forgot about that aspect! And, it was also one of the reasons I so easily got my husband interested--as soon as I began mentioning how neat it would be to stay in touch better than with a mobile phone--which back then was cost prohibitive. 'zactly. And it's not a new idea, either - back when long distance phone calls were prohibitively expensive for most people, there were *some* hams whose main interest was keeping in touch with family members who were all over the country - or world. This sort of thing was particularly popular on some machines around here because the culture in this area encourages open machines, deference to mobiles and HTs, and wide coverage. Plus there are so many open machines around here that you can usally find one that's not in use. What really drove that boom was not the dropping of the code test but the availability of inexpensive, small, easy-to-use HTs and mobile rigs. And the proliferation of repeaters, I concede, now looking at it that way. Nothing to concede, Kim. Your "FM" story is one source of new hams. My "honeydew" story is another. I don't think any trends in amateur radio have a single source/reason. These folks were hams, all right, but their interest in ham radio was not about radio as an end in itself, but radio as a means to an end. IOW, just a tool to do a job, not the main attraction. Trouble is, cell phones now fill those roles. 73 de Jim, N2EY Absolutely. Probably one of the biggest reasons we (my dear and I) haven't been all that driven/motivated to get the equipment back into the vehicles. Exactly. On the one hand, almost everyone sees a cell phone as a "necessity" these days, and the calling plans and good (not great, but good) coverage make them the comm tool of choice 99% of the time. Plus, "installation" consists of putting the charge cord in the cigarette lighter socket. Putting your ham gear in the truck is a whole different story unless you want to do the lighter socket/magmount thing. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
"Rich M" wrote in message ... "charlesb" wrote in message m... Another ham-bashing Troll. Assuming that he means what he says, the guy must be an utter moron... One of those who thinks that ham radio and the Internet "compete" with each other, as if they were rival communications carriers going after the same market... What a dope! Charles Brabham, N5PVL I feel he makes an interesting conjecture Charles. Consider: If one were to set up two PC's with full internet capability & CD-ROM burners, and six feet away, two HFham stations with control op's at a hamfest. Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to choose which items to explore and operate. Which of these two setup's do you think that in the end-game, the greater percentage of young people would choose to bring home if they had the option to do so? (My guess is they'll want to download MP3's from Kazaa or Morpheus instead of calling CQ on 10 Meters thru a microphone) - If you can find any teenagers who are not already familiar with that stuff... Maybe you could find a few in an economically depressed area, might be worth a try. Most teenagers I know are already up to speed on the Internet stuff. It's old hat to them, the kind of stuff they see anywhere and everywhere, including at school and home. My guess is that they would show more interest in the ham gear, because at least it would be something new, that does something different. Also, a surprising number of teenagers today are seriously interested in public service. They want to do something good. For these teens, ham radio has endless potential and yes it most definitely does excite their interest. So you can take your "The Internet is more interesting that Ham Radio" attitude, fold it up so that it is all sharp corners, and... Well, I'm sure you figure out something to do with it then. The only point that anti-ham troll has, Rich, is the one on top of his head. Charles Brabham, N5PVL |
Rich M wrote: "charlesb" wrote in message m... Another ham-bashing Troll. Assuming that he means what he says, the guy must be an utter moron... One of those who thinks that ham radio and the Internet "compete" with each other, as if they were rival communications carriers going after the same market... What a dope! Charles Brabham, N5PVL I feel he makes an interesting conjecture Charles. Consider: If one were to set up two PC's with full internet capability & CD-ROM burners, and six feet away, two HFham stations with control op's at a hamfest. Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to choose which items to explore and operate. Which of these two setup's do you think that in the end-game, the greater percentage of young people would choose to bring home if they had the option to do so? (My guess is they'll want to download MP3's from Kazaa or Morpheus instead of calling CQ on 10 Meters thru a microphone) I won't argue with your basic premise, Rich. You are absolutely right. And if a similar number of adults were chosen, a whole lot of them might get excited at how much porn they could download. But I don't see that as a good comparison. For most people, computers are a hobby, but not a technical one. Most computers today are sold bundled with pre-setup hardware and software, and all you do is plug them in, get an isp, and off ya go. Most of these people would not be interested in the amateur radio station even if there were no computer in the same room. They just don't have the technical interest. You just keep plugging away to catch that 1 in 10 or 100 people that will be interested in the ARS. If I were to hazard a guess, I wouldn't be surprised if the low retention rate was due to the number of non-technical people who got their technician license, and then had no real interest and therefore no reason to renew their ticket, as they probably hadn't been on the air since soon after they got their license, or as soon as there was general cell phone coverage. - Mike KB3EIA - |
On Sunday 07 September 2003 11:09 am, Rich M wrote:
Consider: If one were to set up two PC's with full internet capability & CD-ROM burners, and six feet away, two HFham stations with control op's at a hamfest. Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to choose which items to explore and operate. Which of these two setup's do you think that in the end-game, the greater percentage of young people would choose to bring home if they had the option to do so? (My guess is they'll want to download MP3's from Kazaa or Morpheus instead of calling CQ on 10 Meters thru a microphone) Consider: It's 1955 and you set up the 2 ham stations above and 6 feet away you set up some baseballs, bat's, and gloves. Next you invite 10 young people (14-17 yo) at random who have no previous exposure to ham radio from the crowd to choose which items to explore and operate. Which of these two setup's do you think that in the end-game, the greater percentage of young people would choose to bring home if they had the option to do so? Amateur radio is not now or ever has been for "normal" people. It's for the techie's, geeks and nerds. Where do the young techie's, geeks and nerds look for information? The Internet. What kind of information will they find? Almost nothing but bitching. Really, in all my hobbies that I check out on the net I have never see such a nasty bunch of adults acting like 8 year olds. I know it's a vocal minority making the noise but it doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth. The internet should/could be one of the best things to ever happen to Amateur radio. And it falls on us to make it happen. -- John R. Marshall The Hotrodding Network is Back! http://www.hotrodding.net |
"Brian" wrote in message om... "K0HB" wrote in message news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@myga te.mailgate.org... Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925 new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only 2.3%. Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate? 73, de Hans, K0HB Hans, though it pains me to do so, I would suggest censuring amateurs such as DICK, Larry, Steve, Bruice, Kelly, and Jim as they continually put forth the idea that an amateur that is not versed in Morse is an incomplete amateur. Nevermind that this amateur can do PSK31 and FSTV. Everyone knows that a picture is worth a thousand words, so if Jim can send a thousand real words (not ARRL numbergrams or Q-signals) in the space of one FSTV image, ... maybe he shouldn't be censured. Just maybe. Get back with me if he passes. Furthermore they exhibit a throwback mentality, which just annoys me. OK, you've got your marching orders, as far as you can march on a boat. So be off with you, Master Chief. Brian/N0iMD I doubt that those who dropped out did so because of these people, this newsgroup, or the activities of hams on the air or on the internet. It's unlikely they even know about this newsgroup let alone frequent it. They are probably people who lost interest years ago due to the fact that they were not into radio as a hobby but simply to talk to spouses and children around town. As cell phones became cheap and service improved, there was no reason for these people to continue in the hobby. We probably also lost some due to lack of elmering but if they don't let us know they are out there, we can't find them to elmer. Some of those hams never got even a 2m handheld let alone another radio. They never followed up by joining a club to get more exposure to ham radio and elmering in ham radio. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"charlesb" wrote in message m... "K0HB" wrote in message news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@mygat e.mailgate.org... Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925 new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only 2.3%. Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate? 73, de Hans, K0HB Drop the no-code provision of the Tech license, obviously. With a 97.7% failure rate, I'd say the new policy is a real loser. - We better drop it fast and return to what worked better in the past. I predicted something like this, but not to such a degree, when so many of the new no-code techs showed a generalized disrespect for the PART97 regs and the traditions of amateur radio. It was obvious that many of them did not care at all about the hobby. - They just wanted to know what they could get out it, what they could get away with. Many of them spent more time bashing the hobby than anything else. As you have noted, almost none of them went on to progress and advance themselves as hams. Personally, I think we will be much better off without most of those "hams", and that we should avoid policies that increase membership in this way in the future. We should do as we did in the past, emphasizing quality, not quantity of our membership. According to your figures Hans, the no-code tech deal did the hobby more harm than good. Charles, N5PVL I totally agree with you Charles. It is obvious they didn't really care about the ARS. As far as I'm concerned....GOOD RIDDANCE !! We don't need quantity. We need quality. Dan/W4NTI |
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ... "charlesb" wrote in message m... "K0HB" wrote in message news:b71720b321f483edfb53ce7de21e4078.128005@mygat e.mailgate.org... Between February 14, 1991 and July 5, 1991, the Commission granted 1,925 new Technician class licenses under the no-code provisions. A couple of guys have done research which shows that 1,880 of those licenses have not been renewed or upgraded to a higher class license and are beyond the two year grace period. That equates to a retention rate of only 2.3%. Any ideas for increasing the reenlistment rate? 73, de Hans, K0HB Drop the no-code provision of the Tech license, obviously. With a 97.7% failure rate, I'd say the new policy is a real loser. - We better drop it fast and return to what worked better in the past. I predicted something like this, but not to such a degree, when so many of the new no-code techs showed a generalized disrespect for the PART97 regs and the traditions of amateur radio. It was obvious that many of them did not care at all about the hobby. - They just wanted to know what they could get out it, what they could get away with. Many of them spent more time bashing the hobby than anything else. As you have noted, almost none of them went on to progress and advance themselves as hams. Personally, I think we will be much better off without most of those "hams", and that we should avoid policies that increase membership in this way in the future. We should do as we did in the past, emphasizing quality, not quantity of our membership. According to your figures Hans, the no-code tech deal did the hobby more harm than good. Charles, N5PVL Sigh. How 'bout this: ever consider that a lot of CBers did, indeed, hear of the new requirements (lower CW testing standards) and decide to get into ham radio for....guess what: FM!!!!!???? When I was "into" CB radio, I was barely ever on AM. There's a whole "other" gang of participants out there on CB--and the mentors of that group are mostly hams. The USB/LSB and, alas, FM--yes, illegal but done--part of CB is an area where you'll find people who are courteous, have "gentlemen's" rules that are followed; where people experiment with antenna design and construction; where an "eyeball" meeting is just as likely; etc. When I was drawn to and got my ticket, you know what the greatest relief was? Being able to turn a radio on and not hear all that hissing, heterodyning, etc.!!! FM is great and that is what I like most about ham radio. HF sucks for all the noise. So, no need/interest to upgrade. And, everyone else was as relieved and impressed with FM also. Listening to HF brings back those days when we had to deal with all that noise. And, it's not a pretty memory. Kim W5TIT Sounds like Kim need to operate a cell phone. Dan/W4NTI |
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