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Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
"N2EY" wrote in message om... [snip] How will we counter that argument? One approach would be to stop planting it in peoples' minds numerous times a day ... things that are repeated often enough sometimes catch on, even if they are BAD ideas ... Hoo, Carl. I think that has to be a null here. Your comments on Morse code might be looked at as the same thing. - Mike KB3EIA - |
Dick Carroll wrote in message ...
(huge snippage) You really should try to keep up with Fred and his cohorts. Dick, Fred who? They're about to leave you behind to enjoy, with the rest of us, what little useful part of ham radio that will be left, if any, when you-all are finished. There's an old story about how a frog tossed into a pan of hot water will jump right out, but if put in a pan of cool water that is slowly warmed, frog will be cooked before noticing the gradual change in temperature. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Dick Carroll wrote in message ...
Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote: (Brian) wrote in message . com... (N2EY) wrote in message ... In article , (Len Over 21) writes: Come up with the way a spark transmitter suddenly turns into an Alexanderson Alternator whenever it is brought up in an amateur radio newsgroup. That's your game, Len. What's your game, Jim? What's your interest in knowing, Brain? Even if he tells you, it's unlikely you'd understand. I used to think that Brian had missed something. Turns out he missed everything! ROTMFFLMMFAO ! ! ! ! ! Steve, K4YZ |
In article , "Ryan, KC8PMX"
writes: Oh jeesh Larry, add more to the alphabet soup eh? :) (PCTA, NCTA, ECTA, etc.) Ryan: Y knot? 73 de Larry, K3LT |
predicate
In article , "Kim W5TIT" writes: And, DICK, what modes would be your failure to communicate your way of an emergency if the fate of the planet depends on it? I wish, for once, you'd answer an honest question. Kim: Dick can't possibly answer this question because it doesn't make sense. It is missing several important parts. I suspect it'll be the usual, though. Complete silence because my question is not only one you can't answer (yeah, I'll make the bet that you are *NOT* proficient in all available modes of ham radio), and it's also one that makes a counter to the point you attempted to illustrate, above. So, DICK, what mode would be our shortcoming if we were all looking to you to "save the planet?" Good thing you restated the question. OK, Dick, proceed. She asked for it. 73 de Larry, K3LT |
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(Brian) wrote in message . com... (N2EY) wrote in message ... In article , (Len Over 21) writes: Come up with the way a spark transmitter suddenly turns into an Alexanderson Alternator whenever it is brought up in an amateur radio newsgroup. That's your game, Len. What's your game, Jim? What's your interest in knowing, Brain? Even if he tells you, it's unlikely you'd understand. Steve, K4YZ I think I already know and understand Jim's game. He built an Elecraft kit, then professes to have engineered and built his own amateur station. 73, Brian |
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message om...
Dick Carroll wrote in message ... Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote: (Brian) wrote in message . com... (N2EY) wrote in message ... In article , (Len Over 21) writes: Come up with the way a spark transmitter suddenly turns into an Alexanderson Alternator whenever it is brought up in an amateur radio newsgroup. That's your game, Len. What's your game, Jim? What's your interest in knowing, Brain? Even if he tells you, it's unlikely you'd understand. I used to think that Brian had missed something. Turns out he missed everything! ROTMFFLMMFAO ! ! ! ! ! Steve, K4YZ What kind of "AO" are you laughing off? |
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Dick Carroll wrote in message ...
Brian wrote: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com... (Brian) wrote in message . com... (N2EY) wrote in message ... In article , (Len Over 21) writes: Come up with the way a spark transmitter suddenly turns into an Alexanderson Alternator whenever it is brought up in an amateur radio newsgroup. That's your game, Len. What's your game, Jim? What's your interest in knowing, Brain? Even if he tells you, it's unlikely you'd understand. Steve, K4YZ I think I already know and understand Jim's game. He built an Elecraft kit, then professes to have engineered and built his own amateur station. You DO seem to have a problem with the thought process. Sure, Jim recently did buy and build a K2 kit. He's been speaking of it for several years. But what you missed, among many other important points, was that he has always clearly stated that it WAS a kit project, How could I have missed something so obvious? I think you just stated something that Jim has been omitting. not to be confused with the *several* project stations that he has designed and built, and USED ON THE AIR over his near-40 years as a ham. What was so wrong with "Jim engineered and built" radios that he had to go to a kit engineered by someone else? I thought Jim was supposed to be a good engineer. But then, that's what we've learned to expect from you. We know what to expect from you - poorly sent CW. |
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Dick Carroll wrote in message ...
Brian wrote: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com... (Brian) wrote in message . com... (N2EY) wrote in message ... In article , (Len Over 21) writes: Come up with the way a spark transmitter suddenly turns into an Alexanderson Alternator whenever it is brought up in an amateur radio newsgroup. That's your game, Len. What's your game, Jim? What's your interest in knowing, Brain? Even if he tells you, it's unlikely you'd understand. Steve, K4YZ I think I already know and understand Jim's game. He built an Elecraft kit, then professes to have engineered and built his own amateur station. You DO seem to have a problem with the thought process. Sure, Jim recently did buy and build a K2 kit. But what you missed, among many other important points, was that he has always clearly stated that it WAS a kit project, not to be confused with the *several* project stations that he has designed and built, and USED ON THE AIR over his near-40 years as a ham. But then, that's what we've learned to expect from you. Was there ever any doubt, Dick? Can we expect anything less from a dweeb who can proudly lay claim to looking up to a known pathological liar as his "mentor"...?!?! What an idiot he is. As if I NEEDED to have my suspicions verified... If nothing ELSE would have clued Sir Clueless in, it would have been the fact that Jim has been discussing his other projects for years... Of course The Clueless One only tries to scan through posts long enough to pick up key words he's looking for and ignores the rest. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
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N2EY wrote:
I've built-from-scratch (no kits, no carbon copies of other homebrew) in my home workshops, at least: 5 receivers 5 transmitters 3 transceivers 4 transmatches 12 power supplies 4 TR systems 5 pieces of test equipment various shack furniture, antennas, power cables, control systems, etc. The above list does not include: - surplus units converted/restored - manufactured equipment restored/repaired/modified - kits built or rebuilt I've worked several of the regulars here on rrap using my homebrew rigs. I can often be found on or around 7040. This is incredibly bizzare! Having to defend one's hombrewing as defined by what one has designed and built. Its all good, whether building an Elecraft kit or designing your own radio; modding a surplus unit or etching your own circuit boards. - Mike KB3EIA - |
In article , Mike Coslo
writes: N2EY wrote: I've built-from-scratch (no kits, no carbon copies of other homebrew) in my home workshops, at least: 5 receivers 5 transmitters Actually, 6 transmitters. All but the first two include VFOs. 3 transceivers 4 transmatches 12 power supplies 4 TR systems 5 pieces of test equipment various shack furniture, antennas, power cables, control systems, etc. The above list does not include: - surplus units converted/restored - manufactured equipment restored/repaired/modified - kits built or rebuilt I've worked several of the regulars here on rrap using my homebrew rigs. I can often be found on or around 7040. This is incredibly bizzare! Most of what Brian Burke writes here is bizarre. In this case, though, he's simply wrong about my homebrewing. Having to defend one's hombrewing as defined by what one has designed and built. My homebrewing speaks for itself, as anyone who has worked me on-the-air knows. I currently have two HF transceivers fully operational at the present time: Elecraft K2 #2084 and the Southgate Type 7. I also have some of my older homebrew projects in storage. The Type 7 is almost ten years old now, while the K2 was assembled in the spring of 2001. I define "homebrew" as "built from scratch". That includes everything from carbon-copy stuff like the G2DAF sets to one-of-a-kind designed-from-a-blank-sheet-of-paper projects. "Homebrew" does not include kit assembly, surplus conversion (unless it's so extensive that it's really a new project, as in "Cheap and Easy SSB"), or restoration/repair/modification. Its all good, whether building an Elecraft kit or designing your own radio; modding a surplus unit or etching your own circuit boards. I agree 100%! It's ALL good - but it's not all homebrew. Heck, some restorations require more skill, knowledge and effort than an equivalent homebrew because the restorer wants to match the original exactly, where the homebrew *is* the original. My particular specialty in homebrew is to reuse "found objects" rather than buy new parts - mostly to save money, but also because some parts are almost impossible to find new. There's also the consideration of not wasting usable parts. How can we claim that amateur radio is a "fundamentally technical radio service" if we all use only manufactured radios? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes: N2EY wrote: I've built-from-scratch (no kits, no carbon copies of other homebrew) in my home workshops, at least: 5 receivers 5 transmitters Actually, 6 transmitters. All but the first two include VFOs. 3 transceivers 4 transmatches 12 power supplies 4 TR systems 5 pieces of test equipment various shack furniture, antennas, power cables, control systems, etc. The above list does not include: - surplus units converted/restored - manufactured equipment restored/repaired/modified - kits built or rebuilt I've worked several of the regulars here on rrap using my homebrew rigs. I can often be found on or around 7040. This is incredibly bizzare! Most of what Brian Burke writes here is bizarre. In this case, though, he's simply wrong about my homebrewing. Having to defend one's hombrewing as defined by what one has designed and built. My homebrewing speaks for itself, as anyone who has worked me on-the-air knows. I currently have two HF transceivers fully operational at the present time: Elecraft K2 #2084 and the Southgate Type 7. I also have some of my older homebrew projects in storage. The Type 7 is almost ten years old now, while the K2 was assembled in the spring of 2001. I define "homebrew" as "built from scratch". That includes everything from carbon-copy stuff like the G2DAF sets to one-of-a-kind designed-from-a-blank-sheet-of-paper projects. "Homebrew" does not include kit assembly, surplus conversion (unless it's so extensive that it's really a new project, as in "Cheap and Easy SSB"), or restoration/repair/modification. Its all good, whether building an Elecraft kit or designing your own radio; modding a surplus unit or etching your own circuit boards. I agree 100%! It's ALL good - but it's not all homebrew. Well, there is a big gray area there. I've modified some equipment prett extensively, and used some self designed circuitry in it, so I'm not sure what to by your def. That's okay, as long as I get to smell that rosin core solder smoke! Heck, some restorations require more skill, knowledge and effort than an equivalent homebrew because the restorer wants to match the original exactly, where the homebrew *is* the original. I'm restoring an SB-200 right now. And it just got harder because I can't get the green/gray crinkle paint anymore. The place that sold it doesn't sell it any more. 8^( Anyone here know of a source of this paint, or better yet, how to homebrew crinkle paint? I've heard of painting on a case fresh out of a hot oven, but I have XYL, safety, and consistency problems with that. Theres no way I could get a whole SB200 case painted before the temperature dropped too moch to crinkle it. And the wife certainly isn't too keen on my putting things in the oven, after what I did to it while making a telescope. And how safe is spraying solvents on a hot aluminnum surface? 8^) My particular specialty in homebrew is to reuse "found objects" rather than buy new parts - mostly to save money, but also because some parts are almost impossible to find new. There's also the consideration of not wasting usable parts. Yup, I get old equipment, tear it apart and file the stuff away in boxes. Appeals to basic guy stuff like reusing things, and tearing stuff apart. How can we claim that amateur radio is a "fundamentally technical radio service" if we all use only manufactured radios? Agreed. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(Brian) wrote in message . com... (Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com... Yet another example of emulating your pathological liar mentor, Brain? Steve, K4YZ Stebe is my mentor. Not likely. I don't do Special Ed cases, Brain. Sorry. Steve, K4YZ Where's Dann Finn? PCTADS? Even the FCC gave waivers. You're still my mentor, Stebe, like it or not. |
Dick Carroll wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: N2EY wrote: I've built-from-scratch (no kits, no carbon copies of other homebrew) in my home workshops, at least: 5 receivers 5 transmitters 3 transceivers 4 transmatches 12 power supplies 4 TR systems 5 pieces of test equipment various shack furniture, antennas, power cables, control systems, etc. The above list does not include: - surplus units converted/restored - manufactured equipment restored/repaired/modified - kits built or rebuilt I've worked several of the regulars here on rrap using my homebrew rigs. I can often be found on or around 7040. This is incredibly bizzare! Yeah, the NoCode Agenda can get to be a bit bizzare, all right. Between all the "Luddite!" Mantra - while it's *WE*, the coded, who are actully active with the modern digital nodes, then their version of Morse Myths, Morsedists Religion, NCVEC's "vision of the future" ....... snip You have me wondering now Dick. I'm wondering what the ratio of NCTA homebrewers to PCTA homebrewers is? Whereas a person that does not hombrew (by my more expansive definition as compared to Jim's) is not necessarily a technical nincompoop, those who do homebrew are arguably more "into" the Ham experience than those who do not. I'll start this, and we'll see if people want to pick it up. Jim is PCTA and has extensive homebrew experience. I'm PCTA and have a good bit of experience, though nowhere near as extensive as Jim does. I've done some design, and lots of rebuilding, Mods and homemade keys and the like, and of course antennas. Let's hear from both sides here. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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Dick Carroll wrote:
Oh, my homebrew experience doesn't come close to Jim's either. But... Okay, you qualify, Dick! So far we have PCTA Jim - Large scale HB Dick - Large scale HB Mike - Med to large scale HB NCTA - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo wrote:
Dick Carroll wrote: Oh, my homebrew experience doesn't come close to Jim's either. But... Okay, you qualify, Dick! So far we have PCTA Jim - Large scale HB Dick - Large scale HB Mike - Med to large scale HB Mike, Count me in. Numerous linear amplifiers: 4 x 6146, pair of 811A's, pair 813's, 4-1000 antennas: duoband 12/17m yagi (parasleeve excitation), 2 elements each band, hairpin match (currently in use) 2 element 40m inverted vee phased array (135 degree phasing, 1/8 wave spaced). power supplies: a number of low and high voltage (and multivoltage) supplies from 12 volts to 5,000 volts. antenna tuners: 100w switched "T" matches, 2 KW+ Ultimate transmatch, 2 KW+ "L" Network, 200w link coupled tuner for balanced line, 2 KW+ L/C phasing network. Dave K8MN |
(Brian) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com... (Brian) wrote in message . com... (Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com... Yet another example of emulating your pathological liar mentor, Brain? Steve, K4YZ Stebe is my mentor. Not likely. I don't do Special Ed cases, Brain. Sorry. Steve, K4YZ Where's Dann Finn? PCTADS? Even the FCC gave waivers. You're still my mentor, Stebe, like it or not. I STILL don't do Special Ed, Brain... Steve, K4YZ |
Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Mike Coslo wrote: Dick Carroll wrote: Oh, my homebrew experience doesn't come close to Jim's either. But... Okay, you qualify, Dick! So far we have PCTA Jim - Large scale HB Dick - Large scale HB Mike - Med to large scale HB Mike, Count me in. Numerous linear amplifiers: 4 x 6146, pair of 811A's, pair 813's, 4-1000 a four by one...NICE!!! I'd call that "large scale"... antennas: duoband 12/17m yagi (parasleeve excitation), 2 elements each band, hairpin match (currently in use) 2 element 40m inverted vee phased array (135 degree phasing, 1/8 wave spaced). power supplies: a number of low and high voltage (and multivoltage) supplies from 12 volts to 5,000 volts. antenna tuners: 100w switched "T" matches, 2 KW+ Ultimate transmatch, 2 KW+ "L" Network, 200w link coupled tuner for balanced line, 2 KW+ L/C phasing network. Neat stuff! The only manufactured ham antenna I've ever used is a 2 meter mag mount. Did I mention shack furniture and accessories (shelves, tables, etc.), home-designed and made from lumber? Not up to New Yankee Workshop standards, perhaps, but they do the job. There's also the Tymeter mechanical digital clock I assembled from the parts of several discarded ones. Motor from one clock, case from another, 24 hour mechanism from a third, etc. Total cost about $2 - ten or fifteen years ago. And when I find a space for a computer in the shack, it will be a home-assembled one. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Gee Jim.... hope there are no criminals lurking in the newsgroup. In this
thread you gave quite a shopping list for criminals...... Ryan KC8PMX (snippage) There's also the Tymeter mechanical digital clock I assembled from the parts of several discarded ones. Motor from one clock, case from another, 24 hour mechanism from a third, etc. Total cost about $2 - ten or fifteen years ago. And when I find a space for a computer in the shack, it will be a home-assembled one. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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(Brian) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com... I STILL don't do Special Ed, Brain... Steve, K4YZ You should; you're spelling is awful. BBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! I love a guy who chastises another for his spelling with a sentence that would make any English teacher drop to her knees in tears! BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ! ! ! ! ! ! Steve, K4YZ |
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(Brian) wrote in message . com... (Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com... I STILL don't do Special Ed, Brain... Steve, K4YZ You should; you're spelling is awful. BBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! I love a guy who chastises another for his spelling with a sentence that would make any English teacher drop to her knees in tears! BBBWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ! ! ! ! ! ! Steve, K4YZ I've never had an English teacher drop to her knees. |
N2EY wrote:
Dave Heil wrote in message ... Mike Coslo wrote: Dick Carroll wrote: Count me in. Numerous linear amplifiers: 4 x 6146, pair of 811A's, pair 813's, 4-1000 a four by one...NICE!!! I'd call that "large scale"... It certainly was. The thing was in a four-foot rack cabinet and used a 2400V, 5 KVA pole pig and a doubler circuit along with some mongo oil-filled electrolytics. antennas: duoband 12/17m yagi (parasleeve excitation), 2 elements each band, hairpin match (currently in use) 2 element 40m inverted vee phased array (135 degree phasing, 1/8 wave spaced). power supplies: a number of low and high voltage (and multivoltage) supplies from 12 volts to 5,000 volts. antenna tuners: 100w switched "T" matches, 2 KW+ Ultimate transmatch, 2 KW+ "L" Network, 200w link coupled tuner for balanced line, 2 KW+ L/C phasing network. Neat stuff! The only manufactured ham antenna I've ever used is a 2 meter mag mount. I've used any number of commercial yagis and even a couple of multiband verticals such as the Butternut HF-2V with 160m kit but I've never bought a wire antenna :-) Did I mention shack furniture and accessories (shelves, tables, etc.), home-designed and made from lumber? Not up to New Yankee Workshop standards, perhaps, but they do the job. The main operating position here is made from a flush-type door on a 2 x 4" frame, supported by 4 x 4" legs. There's a shelf beneath for power supplies and a two-shelf angled console above for rigs and accessories. Studio "B", across the room is the massive old oak veneer operating desk from W8YX, the U. of Cincinnati club station. It was featured in QST's writeup of the 1937 Ohio River flood. There's also the Tymeter mechanical digital clock I assembled from the parts of several discarded ones. Motor from one clock, case from another, 24 hour mechanism from a third, etc. Total cost about $2 - ten or fifteen years ago. Neat but indicative of the dumpster diver mentality, Jim. I'm afraid I'm one of those too! I can't pass up old Alliance TV rotors and control boxes. One turns our TV antenna, one turns the chimney-mounted FM yagis for 144 and 440 MHz and one turns the 160/80m hardline receiving loop. And when I find a space for a computer in the shack, it will be a home-assembled one. Except for my laptop computer, all computers here are home assembled "white boxes" and are networked (but I bought the hub boxes). By the way, have you heard of the new Chinese-produced Linux variant? It is called (no kidding) Red Flag Linux. Dave K8MN |
Dave Heil wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote: Dave Heil wrote in message ... Mike Coslo wrote: Dick Carroll wrote: Count me in. Numerous linear amplifiers: 4 x 6146, pair of 811A's, pair 813's, 4-1000 a four by one...NICE!!! I'd call that "large scale"... It certainly was. The thing was in a four-foot rack cabinet and used a 2400V, 5 KVA pole pig and a doubler circuit along with some mongo oil-filled electrolytics. SWEET! But they weren't electrolytics. Oil filled paper. antennas: duoband 12/17m yagi (parasleeve excitation), 2 elements each band, hairpin match (currently in use) 2 element 40m inverted vee phased array (135 degree phasing, 1/8 wave spaced). power supplies: a number of low and high voltage (and multivoltage) supplies from 12 volts to 5,000 volts. antenna tuners: 100w switched "T" matches, 2 KW+ Ultimate transmatch, 2 KW+ "L" Network, 200w link coupled tuner for balanced line, 2 KW+ L/C phasing network. Neat stuff! The only manufactured ham antenna I've ever used is a 2 meter mag mount. I've used any number of commercial yagis and even a couple of multiband verticals such as the Butternut HF-2V with 160m kit but I've never bought a wire antenna :-) If I ever get enough space I'm putting up a serious dipole or loop fed with real ceramic-spreader open wire line. For now I gotta settle of recycled NM and RG-8X. But when the run is only 50-60' it's not much of an issue Did I mention shack furniture and accessories (shelves, tables, etc.), home-designed and made from lumber? Not up to New Yankee Workshop standards, perhaps, but they do the job. The main operating position here is made from a flush-type door on a 2 x 4" frame, supported by 4 x 4" legs. I gave up on doors for tabletops about 20 years ago. Make my own out of OSB and Masonite. Stronger and cheaper. Shelves above and shelves below. There's a shelf beneath for power supplies and a two-shelf angled console above for rigs and accessories. Studio "B", across the room is the massive old oak veneer operating desk from W8YX, the U. of Cincinnati club station. It was featured in QST's writeup of the 1937 Ohio River flood. I'll look it up. There's also the Tymeter mechanical digital clock I assembled from the parts of several discarded ones. Motor from one clock, case from another, 24 hour mechanism from a third, etc. Total cost about $2 - ten or fifteen years ago. Neat but indicative of the dumpster diver mentality, Jim. Of course. I always wanted one and it has done the job for well over a decade. New Yankee frugality - it's what built this country. Use it up Wear it out Make it do Or do without. I'm afraid I'm one of those too! I can't pass up old Alliance TV rotors and control boxes. One turns our TV antenna, one turns the chimney-mounted FM yagis for 144 and 440 MHz and one turns the 160/80m hardline receiving loop. I had a couple kicking around - dunno what happened to 'em. Maybe they're at The Mill. And when I find a space for a computer in the shack, it will be a home-assembled one. Except for my laptop computer, all computers here are home assembled "white boxes" and are networked (but I bought the hub boxes). Only thing I bought new to build the latest home machine was the CD burner (not many of those in dumpsters yet) and the modem. Got maybe $100 in it, tops. Not a power machine but I'm not doing CADD on it either. By the way, have you heard of the new Chinese-produced Linux variant? It is called (no kidding) Red Flag Linux. aw geez...the Chairman is spinning in his grave... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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Okay, we have
Jim, Dick, Dave, and myself as homebrewers. Anyone else? - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo wrote
Jim, Dick, Dave, and myself as homebrewers. Anyone else? K0HB K0CKB 73, de Hans, K0HB -- |
In article , Mike Coslo writes:
Okay, we have Jim, Dick, Dave, and myself as homebrewers. Anyone else? I've been doing that since 1947. Building radios and electronics at home doesn't take any license. I've got Greenlee chassis punches older than Parson Miccolis! :-) LHA |
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