I think Jim was stretching it a little far to decide to be offended by the
phrase "jump through the hoop" and "waste their valuable time." But, that's
my opinion...

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
I just saw another accusation of Pro-Coders as technically backwards.

Yet some of the most progressive RF Engineers and Technicians I know
(who are Hams) are really enamored of Morse CW.

In over 32 years as an RF engineer, I have not had the same experience.
The most technical folks have seemed more interested in the technical
side of ham radio and there have been MANY who I could not recruit
into ham radio because they had no interest in and were unwilling to
waste
their valuable time learing Morse to a level that would get them decent
HF privs. (some have capitulated and jumped through the 5 wpm hoop
since "restructuring" and are now extras, but many have refused, on
principal, to jump through the hoop, saying they'll wait until they
don't
have to waste their time on Morse)

My experience has been different. But let's talk about yours.

First off, with all due respect, I would submit that Carl is perhaps
not the optimum salesperson for convincing people to take code tests
in order to get a license.

Carl's claim, as I read it, is that he knows RF engineers who would
have become hams but for the code test. Some of them have become hams
in spite of that test, or since it was lowered to 5 wpm for all
classes.

The question I ask is this: What does it matter to amateur radio what
a person's job is, unless that person actually uses their job-related
skills for amateur radio? And how many RF engineers will put that
experience to work in amateur radio if the code test is removed that
are allegedly being stopped today?

I remember back in 1990 that this same argument was being used against
the Technician code test. We were told that ham radio would get lots
of new technical folks to push development of the VHF/UHF spectrum,
and that such folks weren't interested in taking code tests. Yet here
it is a dozen years later and there hasn't been any techno-revolution
in amateur VHF/UHF. That doesn't mean there hasn't been progress, just
that there hasn't been massive changes.

Indeed, consider the recent developments in 24 GHz EME. Several
enterprising hams have built stations for that band capable of EME
QSOs (USA to Czech Republic is the current record, IIRC) using only
small (~ 2 meter diameter) dishes and less than 100 watts output from
the TWTs.

And the mode used?

I would challenge the NCTA's to show some proof that those who believe
that the morse code test should be retained are in a technical
backwater.

Most of the avid CW ragchewers/contesters I've known over the years
(remember, I'm a long-time ham) have been more interested in the
operating
activity (ragchewing, contesting, paper-chasing) than the technical
side.
My experience has been that they have been less technically inclined
than
a lot of the no-code techs I've met, less inclined to participate in
public
service/emergency communications, and more inclined to just being
"users"
rather than tinkerers ...

I've found more homebrewers among CW ops than any other part of ham
radio.

Remember, this is my personal experience, and since it seems to differ
from
yours, YMMV ...

Of course.

I would also challenge them to do it without being abrasive or
insulting.

I think I've met the challenge ...

Almost.

You wrote:

"were unwilling to waste their valuable time lear[n]ing Morse"

and

"jumped through the 5 wpm hoop"

which some folks would take as abrasive and/or insulting.

Why not just say:

"were unwilling to spend the time and effort"

and

"passed the 5 wpm test simply to meet the requirement"

?

Is an RF engineer's time more valuable than, say, a doctor's or
lawyer's?

Suppose a doctor or lawyer wants to be a ham, but doesn't want to
spend the time learning all the material in the written tests just to
use a manufactured rig to chase DX. Would you say such a person did
not want to waste their valuable time learning the theory needed for
the Extra test? Or, perhaps, did not want to jump through the written
test hoop?

Just facts or intelligent informed opinions.

Since there are no authortative, scientific statistics (and probably
never
will
be), I think that all you can expect to get are peoples accounting of
their
own
personal experiences.

Agreed.

Mine are admitedly coming from the fact that I'm "in
the business" of RF engineering ... but through local clubs and
ARES/RACES
participation over the past 25+ years, my observations seem to hold,
even
amongst contacts/acquaintences/friends who are not "in the profession."
Remember, YMMV ...

Of course.


Pro coders can help by refraining from name calling too.

We shall see ...

I think I've done that.

My statement is that there is no direct relationship.

The evidence is anecdotal will, as I point out, vary from person
to person, depending on their location, profession, the "slant"
of the local club(s) they belong to, etc.

One can find anecdotes for almost any position.

Anyone ready for a real discussion without the barbs? Can we do it?
First person to start throwing insults only makes it look bad for
his/her side.

I think I've taken the high ground ...

Except for the "waste their valuable time" and "hoop" stuff, I'd
agree.

73 de Jim, N2EY