"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message ...
Jim:

The truth is, only hams who know the Morse code have the capability
to fall back on the CW mode when other modes are unavailable.

True.

Now explain why hams know how to use "other modes" when there isn't
a profeciency test to MAKE them do it in the first place.

Clint

Some forgot where they put their microphones.

But they are being made to FCC, as shown above. What reasonable, rational
arguments can we make to counter the above logic?

73 de Jim, N2EY


Thats been my point all along. There is nothing to stop this downward trend,
once we got started its just a matter of time.
Karl thinks hes going to jump up and scream that the Writtens have to stay and
the FCC is going to say OK. Karl I hate to be the barrier of Bad news, but all
your complaining and reasons you have used to stop CW testing, are about to be
thrown back in your face as far as the written. Then maybe you will see the
light.

Jim, you're talking to a post. NCI thinks they've got what they want
now and their heads are firmly buried in the sand to any issue beyond
killing off the code test. Nothing will dull their premature euphoria.
So now we'll see if the adage "be careful what you ask for" will apply.

Your so right, I cant wait till they start crying about what has happened. And
what is probably going to follow

"Dick Carroll" wrote in message
...
So now we'll see if the adage "be careful what you ask for" will apply.

Careful, Dick. The last time I used that adage, I was accused of making a
"veiled threat." Although I doubt if we'll be hearing any NCTA's on the
bottom of 40 anytime soon. BTW, my desk mic's been packed away to make room
on my desktop for my log/notebook.

--
73 de Bert
WA2SI
FISTS #9384

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


I would challenge the NCTA's to show some proof that those who believe
that the morse code test should be retained are in a technical
backwater.

Justify requireing a knowledge or profeciency test on using an old
fashioned
buggy whip before giving out an modern day automobile driver's license.

Clint



What does 'technical' have to do with Morse Code testing and usage?

I do Morse Code on the air because it is FUN, and CHALLANGING, and
EFFICIENT.

Explain what this has to do with 'technical' please.

Dan/W4NTI

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

What it tells me is that not many here care to have a "non-degraded
"discussion.


Uh, not many here are *capable* of having a real discussion.

Kim W5TIT



Hug and Chalk included ??

Dan/W4NTI

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...


Absolutely true. I can understand why there would be the expectation of a
CW ban being petitioned for. And, I would even fully expect one to
surface--even soon. BUT, I really never thought that the FCC would
entertain the idea to any end where the actual ban would take place. I
would be so compelled on this issue that I would actually file a comment
on
it. And, I haven't been stirred by much to actually follow-through with a
comment.


Kim W5TIT



PLEASE DON'T Twit !!!!!!. If a FCC commissioner sees a comment from you
then ham radio will be banned.

Dan/W4NTI

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ...
I think Jim was stretching it a little far to decide to be offended by the
phrase "jump through the hoop" and "waste their valuable time." But, that's
my opinion...

Oh, my. Such language.

Kim, it's more important than ever before to be offended about
something, or by someone; anything at all.

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (N2EY)
writes:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , "Kim"

writes:

"Hans K0HB" wrote in message
e.com...
"Kim" wrote

Spark transmissions were outlawed (as well they should have been) so
the precedent exists.

Hmmmm, Jim/N2EY made that observation also. Then, I see the comment that
spark was a transmission method--not a mode. I think that's splitting
hairs, isn't it? I'm asking--I wasn't around for spark

The ONLY way a "spark" transmitter could send anything called
communications information was by on-off keying.

there were other types of transmitters on the air even
before WW1. Arc transmitters and Alexanderson alternators were two types.
Transmitters using tubes were in use well before 1920.

Irrelevant.

No, very relevant. Spark was not the only option before 1920. And
after 1920, there were even more options.

Amateurs pretty much abandoned spark by 1924-1925. Oddly enough, there
was no international treaty requirement for amateurs to be code tested
until 1927.

The first 'broadcast' stations were actually amateur stations. Using
tube transmitters. They do not get the recognition of KDKA and WWJ
because none of them were in operation on a regular, continuing
schedule.

From ALL the available literature of old-time amateur radio
prior to 1920,

Have you read *all* of it? I doubt that very much.

1920 is twelve years before you were born, Len. So you weren't there.

THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of amateur radio
transmitters were of the "spark" type.

Irrelevant. And there's no need to shout, Len. Your words DO NOT
BECOME MORE TRUE WHEN CAPITALIZED!!!

"Spark" transmitters can be modulated SOLELY by ON-OFF KEYING.

That's simply not correct, Len. And you know it.

The sole surviving Alexanderson Alternator VLF RF generator is in
Grimeton, Sweden, and used once each year for a brief period in a
ceremony for Televerket, the Swedish government's telecommunication
works. A ceremonial event, not one for any actual communication.

Irrelevant. But at least not as boring as your usual diversions.

The practical transmission of voice and music by radio was demonstrated as
early as 1906.

ONLY with a rotary alternator with a WATER COOLED MICROPHONE.

No, with spark.

Demonstration only, and then ONCE.

Irrelevant.

Since "morse code" was already in practice and was totally
on-off keying, it was adopted as The "radio code."

Was that a bad thing?

Point of fact only.

What's your point?

Do NOT "rewrite" what I wrote.

I asked a question. Is that not allowed? Who made you the moderator?

Morse code was developed for ON-OFF KEYING...on land lines.

Sure. Modern "land lines" (in the form of fiber optics) still use
on-off keying. Even though it's a very old idea.

"Spark" transmitters could communicate ONLY by on-off keying.

Repeating the same misinformation doesn't make it any more correct,
Len.

Morse code was first used commercially for communications in
1844. The first demonstration of radio as a communications medium
was 1896. That is a 52 year period allowing maturing of the ON-OFF
keying of telegraphy. Telegraphy by the Morse-Vail telegraph
system had spread worldwide by 1896.

And your point is?

The adoption of a long-existing (since 1844) LANDLINE code
says absolutely nothing about its efficacy in radio communications,
ability to "work through" or much else.

Actually, the code used in radio is different than the code used in landline
work.

Totally irrelevant to the point.

No, exactly relevant. In fact, prior to 1912 there were at least three
different codes in use in radio. One of the changes brought about by
the Titanic disaster was standardization on the "Continental" or
"International" version, which is quite different from that used in
"land line" work.

Early primitive radio could ONLY work
with an ON-OFF KEYING method.

Incorrect.

Despite all the variant dialects of "morse codes," ALL work ONLY by
ON-OFF KEYING. ALL.

Not true! And there's no reason to shout.

Any version of Morse code can be applied to frequency shift keying or
phase shift keying or a variety of other modulation methods. On-off
keying is simply the most commonly used method for radio purposes.

Would you stop your persistent denigration of Morse code and those who
use it if we shifted (pun intended) to FSK or PSK?

The efficacy of Morse code when applied to radio has been demonstrated many,
many times over the past century-plus. Radio amateurs continue to demonstrate
it every day.

Self-serving emotional exaggeration.

Not at all. A plain, simple fact.

You're the one who gets all emotional and exaggerates, Len. All that
shouting and carrying on in here. Really, one would think you were a
bit more mature by now.

As for self-serving - well, all those long boring irrelevant diatribes
on old military radio sets that you post here.....

Radio amateurs worldwide continue to USE all the modes and modulations
allocated to them every day.

"Demonstration" refers to the first use of a method. That differs from
USE.

Splitting hairs, I see.

On-off keying was
adopted simply because it was the ONLY WAY POSSIBLE for
early, primitive radio to allow communications. It's just
practical applied physics. Nothing else.

And it works very well.

It does NOT work optimally compared to OTHER modes.

Radio as a communications medium is 107 years old. ON-OFF
KEYING of a radio frequency carrier is NOT a new concept nor is it
the best for communications.

Who are you to judge? You've never used Morse code, from what you tell
us.

Would you stop your persistent denigration of Morse code and those who
use it if we shifted to FSK or PSK?

Even after the invention of other methods of transmission, the use of Morse
code continued.

Irrelevant. Refusal to change has many and varied reasons. Only some
of those refusals are relevant or applicable.

NO ONE is contending that ON-OFF KEYING was not the first.

Under the beginning subject thread, the subject was the CODE TEST.

You cannot explain or demonstrate or justify a reason for code test
retention JUST BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST MODE IN RADIO.

The first radio-as-a-communications means was 107 years ago.

All other radio services have either dropped morse code mode or
never considered its use when that radio service began.

And what's your point in all of this?

Do you want amateurs to stop using on-off keying?

Do you want amateurs to stop using Morse code?

Continued USE of morse code modes DOES NOT POSSIBLY ADVANCE
ANY STATE OF THE RADIO ARTS.

Yes, it does, in many ways. Of course, that doesn't prove that there
must be a code test of any kind.

Len, you're so emotionally connected to denigrating a form of keying
and a form of communication that you can't see that. You go far beyond
wanting to end a test.

In ANY radio service, including amateur radio.

Who are you to judge, Len? You've never used Morse code and you've
never been a radio amateur.

"N2EY" wrote in message
...

The ONLY way a "spark" transmitter could send anything called
communications information was by on-off keying.


Not entirely correct. From what I have read, in '200 meters and down', I
believe...it stated that a rudementary form of modulation was attempted by
using a loop inserted in the field of the synchronous spark and a carbon
microphone.

This is all from memory, so if Lenny has the facts and nothing but the facts
I'm sure he will jump in. And Herrrrrrrrrrs Lenny............

Dan/W4NTI