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Student That Did Razor Test is a Ham.
What pray tell the phrig is a "razor test"...???
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He's refering to the guy who told the government he was going to smuggle
banned items into an aircraft and did so and got caught. Not exactly the smartest move in the world. I think the reference is to smuggling a razor aboard an aircraft. He may get some free room and board out of this (in a federal pen). 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA "Rev. Firefly" wrote in message ... What pray tell the phrig is a "razor test"...??? |
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Hash: SHA1 "Jim" =3D=3D Jim Hampton writes: Jim He's refering to the guy who told the government he was going to Jim smuggle banned items into an aircraft and did so and got caught. Jim Not exactly the smartest move in the world. I think the Jim reference is to smuggling a razor aboard an aircraft. He may get Jim some free room and board out of this (in a federal pen). Actually, the individual in question smuggled banned items onto multiple aircraft, including notes describing the contents and providing plenty of contact information for himself. He then emailed the TSA at the end of his trip. The items were not discovered until five weeks after his trip. Then the TSA found the emails and passed them to the FBI which came to get him. I think he knew what he was doing. I don't agree with what he did, but he made a statement and he appears to be willing to do the time. Jack. =2D --=20 Jack Twilley jmt at twilley dot org http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lGGuGPFSfAB/ezgRAhpiAJ43Qrlewm6tb/PLBUONd9/pop4+tACfY8p1 GvPIKZydYULm5V4/PamZyuA=3D =3DI8OC =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
Jack Twilley wrote in message ...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 "Jim" == Jim Hampton writes: Jim He's refering to the guy who told the government he was going to Jim smuggle banned items into an aircraft and did so and got caught. Jim Not exactly the smartest move in the world. I think the Jim reference is to smuggling a razor aboard an aircraft. He may get Jim some free room and board out of this (in a federal pen). Actually, the individual in question smuggled banned items onto multiple aircraft, including notes describing the contents and providing plenty of contact information for himself. He then emailed the TSA at the end of his trip. The items were not discovered until five weeks after his trip. Then the TSA found the emails and passed them to the FBI which came to get him. I think he knew what he was doing. I don't agree with what he did, but he made a statement and he appears to be willing to do the time. He had a point to make via a typical college kid civil disobedience maneuver and boy he made it. In SPADES. Congress is already looking for Transportation Security Administration heads to gnaw on for this one. Welcome to America . . Jack. w3rv |
Steve Silverwood wrote in message ...
I think he knew what he was doing. I don't agree with what he did, but he made a statement and he appears to be willing to do the time. He had a point to make via a typical college kid civil disobedience maneuver and boy he made it. In SPADES. Congress is already looking for Transportation Security Administration heads to gnaw on for this one. Welcome to America . . Kind of on a par with Matthias Rust, the German student pilot who flew his Cessna into the Soviet Union and landed in the middle of Red Square during the annual Border Guards something-or-other holiday. Definitely made a statement! Rust's stunt was a whole 'nother level up, To successfully get away with penetrating the Soviet air defenses in that global hot spot with a just Skyhawk then having the audacity to fly it all the way to Moscow unchallenged *and* plop it onto Red Square has to be one of the all-time government-shaking stunts pulled off by an individual. And he did it to a regime which had no qualms about shooting down commercial airliners which strayed a few miles into their airspace. The kid had gonads the size of watermelons. He drew a ceremonial year then they tossed him back over the wall. In the meanwhile back at the Kremkin legions of Soviet military heads rolled. OYeah, Rust made a "statement"! They mentioned on the radio (KNX 1070 in Los Angeles) that he has also been protesting the mandatory draft registration, but that protest hasn't been making any real headlines. You have to wonder, then: is he just trying to make headlines regardless of the cause, or what? He's a student at a Quaker college which explains some of it. Quaker ideology includes often strident far-end pacifism and they've opposed conscription and war going back to roots of their faith in the early 1600's in England. "As a Peace Church, the Society of Friends (Quakers) has always played a leading part in opposing preparations for war. The Peace Testimony, which is a very important Quaker principle, arose out of the belief in the in-dwelling Light or ``that of God'' in people. If that of God was a reality within oneself it would be denying the inner Spirit to take up arms against another." http://websyte.com/PositiveChurch/quaker.html The rest . . . ? Who knows . . no doubt we'll get his explanation at some point after he's "duly processed" by the same gloms he embarassed the hell outta. w3rv |
"Brian Kelly" wrote:
Rust's stunt was a whole 'nother level up, To successfully get away with penetrating the Soviet air defenses in that global hot spot with a just Skyhawk then having the audacity to fly it all the way to Moscow unchallenged *and* plop it onto Red Square has to be one of the all-time government-shaking stunts pulled off by an individual. (snip) While nice propaganda, it's somewhat foolish to believe that, Brian. To do what you say, the guy would have had to avoid detection by Soviet, American, and NATO, radar installations, which is clearly not very likely. Using normal operating procedures, civilian radar installations would have contacted NATO within moments of him flying off his approved flight path. NATO, American, and Soviet, radar facilities would have detected his plane as it approached the restricted airspace bordering East and West Germany. NATO would have immediately tried to contact the pilot and aircraft would have been dispatched in an attempt to intercept him before he could leave NATO airspace (can't have spies flying out of West Germany). At the same time, to avoid any possibility of confusion and again using normal operating procedures, NATO would have immediately contacted the Soviets to assure them it was not a NATO controlled aircraft flying into their airspace and to explain their unusual air activity so near the border. If the Soviets had not already detected the plane and sent aircraft to intercept, they certainly would have after being contacted by NATO. The Soviets, for whatever reason, did not shoot down that plane. Whatever the reasons, it was certainly not because he had penetrated Soviet air defenses undetected. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message et...
"Brian Kelly" wrote: . . . . If the Soviets had not already detected the plane and sent aircraft to intercept, they certainly would have after being contacted by NATO. The Soviets, for whatever reason, did not shoot down that plane. Whatever the reasons, it was certainly not because he had penetrated Soviet air defenses undetected. I've never dug into the details of who did or did not do exactly what during that stunt but whatever actually happened is recorded recent history which is inarguable. Versus you making the bunch of suppositions and assumptions above instead presenting any historical facts which refute my comments. That simply does not fly. If in fact NATO and the Soviets were so chummy and the Soviets knew the kid was enroute then you explain why the Kremlin very publically punished a flock of their high-level air defense officers for not detecting and shooting the kid down. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) w3rv |
Brian Kelly wrote:
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message . net... "Brian Kelly" wrote: . . . . If the Soviets had not already detected the plane and sent aircraft to intercept, they certainly would have after being contacted by NATO. The Soviets, for whatever reason, did not shoot down that plane. Whatever the reasons, it was certainly not because he had penetrated Soviet air defenses undetected. I've never dug into the details of who did or did not do exactly what during that stunt but whatever actually happened is recorded recent history which is inarguable. Versus you making the bunch of suppositions and assumptions above instead presenting any historical facts which refute my comments. That simply does not fly. More than this, his assumption that the rest of it relies on, that Rust flew directly and non-stop over the East/West German border to Moscow (what's that, more than 1500 miles?) in a Cessna 172, seems a bit silly. Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in Helsinki, which means he crossed into the air space either from the Gulf of Finland or the Finnish land border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. As for why the Soviet border defenses didn't pick him up, Rust himself believes it may be because the day he flew (May 28?) happened to be a holiday for the Soviet military, and this may have left their defenses where he entered undermanned and/or inattentive. Dennis Ferguson |
"Brian Kelly" wrote:
(snip) Versus you making the bunch of suppositions and assumptions above instead presenting any historical facts which refute my comments. (snip) Those suppositions and assumptions are based on the fact that the airspace in question (Europe, Eastern Europe, and Eastern Russia) was monitored by some of the most sophisticated radar facilities in the world - radar facilities belonging to the United States, NATO, and the Soviet Union. To avoid mistakes, communications between those three were commonplace whenever an unexplained incident occurred. To do what you say, this person would have had to avoid detection by all three, which I believe was absolutely impossible. Instead, like many military situations of the time, I suspect a lot happened behind the scenes that was never, and may never be, made known to the general public. Of course, that's just what I believe. You're free to believe what you want. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Dennis Ferguson" wrote:
Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in Helsinki, which means he crossed into the air space either from the Gulf of Finland or the Finnish land border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. (snip) His flight started in Hamburg Germany, with a stop in Helsinki for fuel. According to every report I've read, he crossed into East Germany on the border with West Germany. To do this without detection, he would have had to avoid United States, NATO, and Soviet radar. In my opinion, that was impossible. Therefore, there is more to this story that has not been told. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
"Dwight Stewart" wrote in message ink.net...
"Dennis Ferguson" wrote: Rust actually entered the Soviet Union after a stop in Helsinki, which means he crossed into the air space either from the Gulf of Finland or the Finnish land border, so NATO had nothing to do with it. (snip) His flight started in Hamburg Germany, with a stop in Helsinki for fuel. According to every report I've read, he crossed into East Germany on the border with West Germany. To do this without detection, he would have had to avoid United States, NATO, and Soviet radar. In my opinion, that was impossible. Therefore, there is more to this story that has not been told. Yeah, right. It's a "secret". Do you really think that this "scam" you propose included the sacrificial canning of Soviet Generals to cover the real truth? Makes no sense at all. I have enough stick, pedal and hanger bum time to know that if you plan your flight properly and keep your head down while flying a light A/C the chances of detection by ground-based radar are quite low if you know what you're doing. Ask the drug dealers who have flown DC-6s into this country undetected how they did it. You can bet yer bippy that the kid was not flying at 10,000 AGL with his transponder squawking his S/N, yes? Dwight Stewart (W5NET) w3rv |
"Brian Kelly" wrote:
Yeah, right. It's a "secret". Do you really think that this "scam" you propose included the sacrificial canning of Soviet Generals to cover the real truth? Makes no sense at all. In typical Russian fashion, Gobachov used the incident to eliminate a few Soviet officers he didn't like (officers appointed by his predecessor). Besides, if you're going to use this to support your position, you should also point out that the official reason they were fired was for not taking more aggressive action against the intruder, not for a failure to detect the intruder. Of course, I'm sure you see that as just propaganda, while anything that fits your version of the story is not. I have enough stick, pedal and hanger bum time to know that if you plan your flight properly and keep your head down while flying a light A/C the chances of detection by ground-based radar are quite low if you know what you're doing. Ask the drug dealers who have flown DC-6s into this country undetected how they did it. You can bet yer bippy that the kid was not flying at 10,000 AGL with his transponder squawking his S/N, yes? That area (Eastern Europe and Western Russia) was perhaps the most heavily monitored region of the world at the time, by tactical and strategic radar, surveillance aircraft, and satellite. The Gulf/Mexico region is not nearly as well monitored (something the military and drug enforcement personnel has repeatedly complained about). I seriously doubt anything larger than an insect could have flown over Eastern Europe or Western Russia at the time without being spotted. However, if you choose to believe otherwise, that is certainly your right. Therefore, I will not continue to argue a contrary position. Take care. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
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