"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
om...
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...

If anyone wants to start changing things in America, they need to start
changing politicians. And, I don't even care what "party" is
changed--they
are all essentially the same.

I'll have to disagree with you a bit here, Kim...

I think before we change politicians, we have to change
ourselves...What we want from govenment, the kind of conduct we expect
and what we are willing to pay for with our taxes.


Well, I think that's almost a given...but I agree. Actually, as long as the
American people are represented again...and I don't think they really are
now...then I'd be happy with anything.


Americans will scream bloody murder about thier "rights" and the
amount of taxes they pay. Yet they scream even louder when a group of
men get together and commit a horrific act like September 11th and
they wonder why the government doesn't "do something".


I, for one, am getting tired of 9-11 being the barometer of how patriotic we
are. Leaving out the disaster, there is so much other stuff hurting this
country--even more than the blatant terrorism that is part of a bigger
picture. Terrorism is just easier to see and be offended by. What about
all the products we buy every day that are made in China--and even before
China "earned" back the most favored nation status. What *are* they doing
with all that money they get from the products they export to this country
and that we buy? That's just one example and I bet everyone could submit
their own pet peeve for dangers that encroach upon this country; leaving
blatant terrorism aside.


Can you imagine the outpore of anger that would have occured if
those 20 men had been arrested on September TENTH...?!?! The ACLU, The
Arab-American League and who knows who all else would have been all
over the press about how we were infringing on thier rights.


Well, I am outraged at the significance of those being held at at the US
prison camp in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. For just an example of this, see the
news article at the BBC's website (add http:// to the following)
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2648547.stm. Yes, I know it seems outrageously
un-American to have some empathy for these folks, but I do. And it galls me
that the situation exists as it does.


But what gauls ME is how people will get indignant about how our
politicians SHOULD be, yet "we" allow someone like Bill Clinton off
the hook despite having been caught lying over and over. Then his
wife gets caught stealing "things" from the White House, and what do
they do? They elect her to the Senate of a state she enver held
residence in.


I didn't get all that riled up about the Clinton debaucle. Hell, I'm
thinking they are probably swingers and that news just didn't come out.
Don't know about Hillary stealing stuff...was *she* brought up on any
charges? See the irony? The folks at Guantanamo Bay haven't been charged
with a thing and they're sitting where they are. She gets caught
red-handed--at least according to you--and she's now in the US Senate.


DO you know WHY she didn't run for office from her HOME state?

WHY should we NOT tolerate them lying about anything else if
we're going to send a message that it's "OK" for the President of the
United States to violate the very same "sexual harrassment" laws that
are now prevelant in every workplace save porno movies and stripper
bars?


Well, I don't believe "we" did send that message, Steve. I believe "they"
decided how the whole thing would be handled and it got handled the way
"they" wanted it. They being the politicians and people of preference.


As for the cost of things...Well, all I can say is you get what
you pay for. We hamstrung our intelligence agencies for almost 30
years and now we are wondering why they can't "know" certain things.
The business of intelligence is dirty, often conniving, and usually
ugly. Our adversaries know this. That's how they manage to stay in
step with us all too often.

73

Steve, K4YZ


Aw, I'm not so sure we are or were all that hamstrung. Look back on history
a few years back...ok a lot of few years' back, and look at the photos of
Saddam shaking hands with...who is that?

There's more to outrage than meets the eye, Steve. You're right, though, we
do need to decide what it is that is going to outrage us, *us* not them.

Kim W5TIT