Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 2:21 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Of this minority, the ARRL polled their little group in the mid-late
nineties, and came away with "no clear mandate." An even spilt within
the ranks of the true believers? So even at the time, something was
wearing away at the propaganda machine. I wonder what's happened
since then?

As I see it the schism is from the general attitude of long-timers
evolving into two main groupings: Those that mightily resist change
and those who can accept change.

You WOULD see a "schism", Lennie, but then since you are NOT a
part of Amateur Radio and do NOT have any experience in matters
pertaining TO Amateur Radio, yours is an uninformed opinion.

I have experience in matters pertaining to amateur radio.

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! !

OH YES, Brain! We have SEEN your "experience" in Amateur Radio! No
logs...Unsubstantiated claims...Inability to name even ONE person who may have
"worked" you from Somalia and have a T5/N0IMD card that could "validate" your
claims...?!?!

Yes Sir, I am soooooooooooooooo (un)impressed!

And I see the same thing.

No doubt you see a LOT of things, Brain!

Both of our opinions are validated by your daily postings.

Both of your opinions have the "support" of your years of failed rantings
in this forum, unsubstantiated claims, and YOUR acknowledged support and
admiration of a "man" who is a documented pathological liar!

So please....Tell me about your valued opinion again, Brain...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! !

Steve, K4YZ

Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

The ONLY way to have incentive is to get a ham license.

The radio god has spoken.

Halleluja and Amen.

LHA

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

Dave K8MN

Of course I'm right! ;^)

Len, like any Americans who've shown an interest in the ARS, have a
disincentive. It is the Morse requirement for HF access.

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 9:05 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

Dave K8MN

Of course I'm right! ;^)

Len, like any Americans who've shown an interest in the ARS, have a
disincentive. It is the Morse requirement for HF access.

Lennie's "disincentive" had/has NOTHING to do with Morse Code, Brain...It
has to do with having absolutely NO understanding of what Amateur Radio is all
about, what it's purpose and capabilities are, and what it means to be a "part"
of something.

He's ALL about being an antagonist.

The "disincentive" was not an "ARS" or "ARRL" issue...it was a matter of
the United States complying with treaties it was signatory to.

Lennie is a loser. He will never be more than a sideline observer to
Amateur Radio, and he was hardly more than that in his "professional" career.
This I have from people who knew him personally. His "contributions" to
certain Naval projects were more significant when he stayed out of other
people's way and let the REAL engineers do their job unimpeded.

Lennie alledges a "professional" career spanning four decades...Well, An
Amateur Radio license granting access to over 97% of all allocations WITHOUT
Morse Code was available for a fourth of that. So where was Lennie?

Lennie makes issue about how Amateurs allegedly don't "move on" in
technology. Current technology places almost all advances far above the HF
spectrum. The Technician Class license has granted those privileges since
1991. So where was Lennie?

One can only surmise that this "argument" about Morse for HF access is
simply yet another LennieRant for "I don't wanna do it", and nothing else. If
he were a TRUE leader in electrical engineering and technology, he'd be out in
front showing "us" how it's done...But WHERE is he...?!?!

On the sidelines...No plan...No experience...No interest in contibuting to
the program.

Just an observer...never a player.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 9:01 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

OH YES, Brain! We have SEEN your "experience" in Amateur Radio!

No you haven't - we've never had a QSO. I've had several QSO's with
Dave Heil.

It's not about having a QSO, BRAIN! It's about what you have claimed and
what you have done to substantiate those claims!.

No
logs...Unsubstantiated claims...Inability to name even ONE person who may
have
"worked" you from Somalia and have a T5/N0IMD card that could "validate"
your
claims...?!?!

I've operated from various loactions under various callsigns.

So have I, Brain. And I can substantiate them. I even have some of my
/JR6 logs left from 22 YEARS ago!

You haven't worked me under my Novice call, and you haven't worked me
with my Korean call. You never worked me from /KH2, you've never even
worked me from Nebraska, Illinois, Florida, nor Ohio. Why is it no
suprise that you didn't work me from Somalia?

It's no surprise that YOU have yet to provide even ONE record of that
activity, yet here you are AGAIN trying to defend it with the same "tactics"
taht have made you look so idiotic.

It's NOT about what I have done or NOT done, Brain...I am NOT the one
making the assertions!

And, NO, I won't forge a card for you.

Please don't. Lying is your mentor's bag.

And you may ask KC8MK how I handle QSL cards that aren't issued to me...
I got a bunch of his 160 meter QSL cards from the Buro by mistake (I used to be
KC8M...some DX mistook his second letter as "go ahead") Shipped some of his
cards to him. Destroyed those that he didn't want.

I don't need to bogus up anything...But thanks for expressing the idea
that you were thinking about it...I think THAT says more than anything!

Yes Sir, I am soooooooooooooooo (un)impressed!

You are singularly indistinctive.

Doesn't matter what I am, Brain...it's what YOU are NOT. "Factual"
and "truthful" come to mind at first...

And I see the same thing.

No doubt you see a LOT of things, Brain!

And I hear things, too. I hear the voices in your head. They have
that maniacal laugh, too.

They should...YOU make it soooooooo easy to laugh! You are quickly
becoming the Milton Berle of the NG! Thanks!

Both of our opinions are validated by your daily postings.

Both of your opinions have the "support" of your years of failed
rantings
in this forum, unsubstantiated claims, and YOUR acknowledged support and
admiration of a "man" who is a documented pathological liar!

So please....Tell me about your valued opinion again, Brain...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA ! ! ! ! ! !

You're the ranter and it's not working. You might want to try a new
approach, this one came up a bit short.

No, Brain, it didn't...I imagine it hit yuo right between the
eyes...Again.

Why don't you wise up and realise that you've made stupid assertions you
can't/won't validate, never WILL be able to validate, and just stop making a
fool of yourself...?!?!

Or is THAT the objective?

Steve, K4YZ

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...


Ah, there's where your logic fails, Dave. You're working on a false
premise.

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

What is "inventive licensing"?

Suppose someone really hated amateur radio and wanted to damage it as
much as possible without being obvious about what they were doing.

Wouldn't one way to do that be to try to maximize internal bickering
and arguing among hams, thereby diverting them from useful discussion?

One could propose to the FCC a licensing structure with multiple
levels, multiple exams, and multiple privelege slices and power
levels.

That was FCC's own idea. Goes back to at least 1936. Complain to FCC.

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
e.com...

Ah, there's where your logic fails, Dave. You're working on a false
premise.

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

:-)

;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Suppose someone really hated amateur radio and wanted to damage it as
much as possible without being obvious about what they were doing.

Wouldn't one way to do that be to try to maximize internal bickering
and arguing among hams, thereby diverting them from useful discussion?

One could propose to the FCC a licensing structure with multiple
levels, multiple exams, and multiple privelege slices and power
levels.

Another way is to have everyone believe in the same thing...as is
published every month in a certain membership magazine.

What magazine is that, Ellsworth...err, Leonard?

As a single "authoritative voice," a New England membership
group DEFINES everything in amateurism for all amateurs. No
bickering, no dissension, no arguing. All do as They say.
No problems. Everyone happy in Nirvana.

Which group and which magazine? ham radio and 73 magazines were New England
based, but they're both defunct.

Your description of a membership organization that does not tolerate dissent
sounds exactly like NoCode International. Right in their bylaws it says that
any member who publicly disagrees with their stated position on code testing is
subject to expulsion. They also require that all members agree to their prime
directive goal as a condition of membership. No one who disagrees with their
core policy can be a member of NoCode International.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just stating facts.

All who oppose the above shall be villified, burned at the stake,
and denounced as not Believing in the True Way.

Now, Ells err, Len, why are you bashing NCI? All they'll do to someone who
disagrees is rescind their membership. Since they state all that in their
bylaws (which even I, a nonmember, have seen) what's your problem?

To my knowledge, such membership withdrawal has never been necessary. A very
few members have asked to be removed from the membership list because they no
longer agreed. Otherwise, the loyalty oath membership conditions have served
NCI quite well, eliminating up front anyone who disagrees.

N2EY wrote:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:


In article ,
(Brian) writes:


(N2EY) wrote in message
le.com...


Ah, there's where your logic fails, Dave. You're working on a false
premise.

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

:-)


;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Suppose someone really hated amateur radio and wanted to damage it as
much as possible without being obvious about what they were doing.

Wouldn't one way to do that be to try to maximize internal bickering
and arguing among hams, thereby diverting them from useful discussion?

One could propose to the FCC a licensing structure with multiple
levels, multiple exams, and multiple privelege slices and power
levels.

Another way is to have everyone believe in the same thing...as is
published every month in a certain membership magazine.


What magazine is that, Ellsworth...err, Leonard?

As a single "authoritative voice," a New England membership
group DEFINES everything in amateurism for all amateurs. No
bickering, no dissension, no arguing. All do as They say.
No problems. Everyone happy in Nirvana.


Which group and which magazine? ham radio and 73 magazines were New England
based, but they're both defunct.

Your description of a membership organization that does not tolerate dissent
sounds exactly like NoCode International. Right in their bylaws it says that
any member who publicly disagrees with their stated position on code testing is
subject to expulsion. They also require that all members agree to their prime
directive goal as a condition of membership. No one who disagrees with their
core policy can be a member of NoCode International.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just stating facts.

And now some puzzle pieces fit together. I can now reconcile Carl's
vision of how leaders are supposed to lead and his organization. Strong
leadership, independent from member opinion, and if you don't like it,
you're out.

Umm, no thanks.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/21/03 2:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.

Why?

Morse Code is only required for access to less than 3% of all Amateur
allocations, none of which is above 30MHz.

Lennie keeps asserting that the future of Amateur Radio is in the new
technologies, none of which is occuring below 30Mhz.

Lennie ALSO keeps insisting Amateur Radio is "stuck" in the 1930's
somewhere, yet evidence in every media indicates he's grossly mistaken. Also,
the fact that the majority of Amateur Radio activity takes place above 30Mhz
further exposes Lennie's rants for the silliness and antagonistic fodder they
are.

Ask Lennie? I could, but that would just amke the heap of unanswered
questions that much higher.

Steve, K4YZ

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

The ONLY way to have incentive is to get a ham license.

The radio god has spoken.

No gods needed. Simple observation will show that someone who proclaims
a decades-long interest in amateur radio and who has never bothered to
attempt even the easiest license exam has no incentive to obtain an
amateur radio license. See "intertia".

It won't bother me if you never obtain an amateur radio license, Len.
Just don't feign interest and then attempt to tell me how you think
amateur radio should be regulated.

Dave K8MN

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

Dave K8MN

Of course I'm right! ;^)

Len, like any Americans who've shown an interest in the ARS, have a
disincentive. It is the Morse requirement for HF access.

Your claim might ring true if Len had bothered to obtain a code-free
ticket at some point. He hasn't.

Dave K8MN

Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.


You'll pardon our confusion. You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

Dave K8MN

Of course I'm right! ;^)

Len, like any Americans who've shown an interest in the ARS, have a
disincentive. It is the Morse requirement for HF access.

Your claim might ring true if Len had bothered to obtain a code-free
ticket at some point. He hasn't.

Of whom are you speaking, old man?

I've had HF access several times in the last half century, all legal,
all involving actual communications. No amateur license was
required at any time. No morse skill needed whatsoever.

The discussion should be about the federal regulations for an amateur
radio license regulation, not the individual "motivations" of any
aspirant to an avocational radio activity.

You constantly insist on personalizing everything about those who do
not share your holy and illustrious viewpoints. That is your problem
and you continually foul this newsgroup with arrogant remarks against
the person of those of opposite opinions. Not my problem but
certainly yours in attitude.

Amateur radio is supposed to be a recreation, a fun activity involving
radio, licensing required only because of physics of EM waves and
federal regulation. Instead, you've turned it into a battleground of
your own, arrogantly demanding adherence to your personal view-
points. You join several others in here in so doing, some past, some
present. That's counter to the original purpose of "the service," isn't
it? Or is it?

Perhaps you embody modern amateur radio, a constant striving for
leading the pack in competitive activity? A competition complete
with taunts and jibes and outright insults against those who
"challenge" your arrogant expertise? If so, there is no wonder that
amateur radio has not increased in number commensurate with
the growth in population.

Enjoy your little clique of morse code uber alles in amateur radio
where the "bands" are only on HF. Feel superior that you've met all
the criteria and standards established by long-gone amateurs of past
times. You are important, superior, vital, and that is all that matters.

You should be demanding that ALL test for high rates of morse in
order to become fully FDA licensed as a ham. Condemn all those
who cannot learn, will not learn, nor share your opinions.

May Santa bring you an irrepairable intermittent in your favorite HF
transceiver along with a truckload of dusty, high-sulphur-content
coal in your stocking. Merry Christmas.

LHA

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:



As a single "authoritative voice," a New England membership
group DEFINES everything in amateurism for all amateurs. No
bickering, no dissension, no arguing. All do as They say.
No problems. Everyone happy in Nirvana.

Which group and which magazine? ham radio and 73 magazines were New England
based, but they're both defunct.

Your description of a membership organization that does not tolerate dissent
sounds exactly like NoCode International. Right in their bylaws it says that
any member who publicly disagrees with their stated position on code testing
is
subject to expulsion. They also require that all members agree to their
prime
directive goal as a condition of membership. No one who disagrees with their
core policy can be a member of NoCode International.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just stating facts.

And now some puzzle pieces fit together. I can now reconcile Carl's
vision of how leaders are supposed to lead and his organization. Strong
leadership, independent from member opinion, and if you don't like it,
you're out.

Jimmie isn't stating any "facts." He is simply manufacturing an
argument for the sake of something to argue about. SOP for Jimmie.
[he seems to need something, anything, to argue about every day]

No Code International is most of all a political special interest group.
It asks for no dues, does not demand a license of any kind in order
to belong.

Unlike the ARRL...which IS a dues-asking, amateur license required,
membership organization and political special interest group and a
publishing business, NCI does not pretend to represent "all" amateurs.

ARRL pretends to "represent all amateurs" yet they still haven't
gotten close to a majority of all licensed U.S. amateurs to belong
to them. They've not been able to do that for years past.

ARRL refuses to take a stand on code testing in the USA yet the
International Amateur Radio Union long ago came out for eliminating
the code test internationally. Once that happens, NCI has stated
that it will dissolve, cease to exist as a special interest entity.

NCI is a very small group, has no law firm on retainer in DC, nor
does it have another group on retainer to lobby the FCC. ARRL does.
NCI directors get out and personally lobby for action on elimination
of code testing, including all the way to Geneva and WRC-03...and
not on a multi-million annual budget available to the ARRL.

ARRL is your shepherd, you shall not want...

Amen

LHA

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely had
some incentive. Len had none.

Of course I'm right! ;^)

Len, like any Americans who've shown an interest in the ARS, have a
disincentive. It is the Morse requirement for HF access.

Your claim might ring true if Len had bothered to obtain a code-free
ticket at some point. He hasn't.

Of whom are you speaking, old man?

Your name is Len, isn't it, grizzled older man?

I've had HF access several times in the last half century, all legal,
all involving actual communications. No amateur license was
required at any time. No morse skill needed whatsoever.

Your memory must be failing in your dotage. Amateur radio is the topic.
Your HF access of the past isn't an issue this time around.

The discussion should be about the federal regulations for an amateur
radio license regulation, not the individual "motivations" of any
aspirant to an avocational radio activity.

Maybe you feel that's what it should be about....but it isn't.

You constantly insist on personalizing everything about those who do
not share your holy and illustrious viewpoints.

I neither do it constantly nor with all others. You personalize many
discussions here. How do you explain that away?

That is your problem
and you continually foul this newsgroup with arrogant remarks against
the person of those of opposite opinions. Not my problem but
certainly yours in attitude.

It doesn't seem to be a problem for me, Len. At the moment, judging
from your reply, it is one for you. Deal with it.

Amateur radio is supposed to be a recreation, a fun activity involving
radio, licensing required only because of physics of EM waves and
federal regulation.

It is all of that and more, old gent.

Instead, you've turned it into a battleground of
your own, arrogantly demanding adherence to your personal view-
points.

No, I've not turned amateur radio into any battlegrounds nor did I note
your presence on any of the ham bands this past week.

You join several others in here in so doing, some past, some
present. That's counter to the original purpose of "the service," isn't
it? Or is it?

Are you confusing amateur radio with this newsgroup? Is it your opinion
that I'm required to quietly accept your guff?

Perhaps you embody modern amateur radio, a constant striving for
leading the pack in competitive activity? A competition complete
with taunts and jibes and outright insults against those who
"challenge" your arrogant expertise? If so, there is no wonder that
amateur radio has not increased in number commensurate with
the growth in population.

Well, old chap, it looks as if you're wrong in your assumptions yet
again. It is a cinch that you don't embody any of amateur radio--past,
present or future. That hasn't stopped you from doing the very things
of which you accuse others. You are--what is it you call
it?..."beligerant" toward radio amateurs who tire of your tales of life
at ADA a half century ago.

Enjoy your little clique of morse code uber alles in amateur radio
where the "bands" are only on HF. Feel superior that you've met all
the criteria and standards established by long-gone amateurs of past
times. You are important, superior, vital, and that is all that matters.

I enjoy morse code, SSB, FM, RTTY, Pactor and several other modes on MW,
HF, VHF and UHF. My "little clique" numbers hundreds of thousands in
this country alone. I haven't noted your presence.

You should be demanding that ALL test for high rates of morse in
order to become fully FDA licensed as a ham. Condemn all those
who cannot learn, will not learn, nor share your opinions.

Morse or no morse, consider yourself condemned.

May Santa bring you an irrepairable intermittent in your favorite HF
transceiver along with a truckload of dusty, high-sulphur-content
coal in your stocking. Merry Christmas.

Do you really know of any irrepairable intermittents? I have no need of
the coal. I heat with gas. Come to think of it, I'd gather from the
length of your pontifications that you do too.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.


You'll pardon our confusion.

Our confusion? Do you have a Frenchman in your pocket?

You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

Dave K8MN

I haven't.

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

...written by many of the beligerant...

"belligerent"

...as long as such beligerance remains rooted

"belligerence"

Dave K8MN

Dave, once again, takes the honors at the national spelling bee,
beating out 9 year old Mary Caldwell, who ran off-stage in tears.

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


pssssst, I think Len is superior at pulling Dave's strings...

Shhhh...don't tell anybody... :-) :-) :-)

Is this the part where you make me one of your playthings or have me
fall into one of your carefully laid snares, Len?

And he has arrived. Congratulations Dave.

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.


You'll pardon our confusion.

Our confusion? Do you have a Frenchman in your pocket?

*Our* confusion--Steve's and mine. Steve wrote (and you snipped):

"Lennie's "disincentive" had/has NOTHING to do with Morse Code,
Brain...It has to do with having absolutely NO understanding of what
Amateur Radio is all about, what it's purpose and capabilities are, and
what it means to be a 'part' of something."

You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

I haven't.

Someone should tell you that he's busy writing his own views on the
subject...in a way.

Dave K8MN

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

...written by many of the beligerant...

"belligerent"

...as long as such beligerance remains rooted

"belligerence"

Dave K8MN

Dave, once again, takes the honors at the national spelling bee,
beating out 9 year old Mary Caldwell, who ran off-stage in tears.

Actually, I took top honors from seventy-year-old Leonard "Atila"
Anderson, a PROFESSIONAL writer.

Dave K8MN

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Kim W5TIT"
writes:

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


pssssst, I think Len is superior at pulling Dave's strings...

Shhhh...don't tell anybody... :-) :-) :-)

Is this the part where you make me one of your playthings or have me
fall into one of your carefully laid snares, Len?

And he has arrived. Congratulations Dave.

Len is clearly the Wile E. Coyote of r.r.a.p.

Dave K8MN

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Kim W5TIT"

writes:

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


pssssst, I think Len is superior at pulling Dave's strings...

Shhhh...don't tell anybody... :-) :-) :-)

Is this the part where you make me one of your playthings or have me
fall into one of your carefully laid snares, Len?

And he has arrived. Congratulations Dave.

...told ya. :-)

LHA

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Brian wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

You're *assuming* that everyone who has an opinion on amateur
radio
policy issues is interested in amateur radio having the best
possible
future. And in most cases that's true - but not when Mr. Anderson
is
involved. His behavior here, and his comments to FCC, indicate
that
he's *not* interested in what's best for amateur radio. He's just
interested in stirring up division, discord and hostility between
amateurs, diverting them from other issues, and denying amateur
traditions and contributions to society and the radio art.

Inventive Licensing comes to mind as the big divider.

You're probably right. Everyone who holds an amateur ticket likely
had
some incentive. Len had none.

Of course I'm right! ;^)

Len, like any Americans who've shown an interest in the ARS, have a
disincentive. It is the Morse requirement for HF access.

Your claim might ring true if Len had bothered to obtain a code-free
ticket at some point. He hasn't.

Of whom are you speaking, old man?

Your name is Len, isn't it, grizzled older man?

I've had HF access several times in the last half century, all legal,
all involving actual communications. No amateur license was
required at any time. No morse skill needed whatsoever.

Your memory must be failing in your dotage. Amateur radio is the topic.

It is?!?!?

I thought it was all about vehicle codes under the subject heading
of "Is Michael Jackson Innocent."

I thought it was all about national economy, presidential politics,
the antics of State, and general subjects that must be dear to
hamhearts everywhere that do NOT touch on amateur radio in
all those other threads.

Your HF access of the past isn't an issue this time around.

Neither is the HF access I had from a Ventura marina a few
months ago...again (for at least the 5th time) without requiring
any amateur radio license or knowing morse code.

The discussion should be about the federal regulations for an amateur
radio license regulation, not the individual "motivations" of any
aspirant to an avocational radio activity.

Maybe you feel that's what it should be about....but it isn't.

It seems to be about ANYTHING EXCEPT amateur radio. It seems
to be all about Kolonel Klunk wanting retribution for some imaginary
wrongs done to his psyche in here.

You constantly insist on personalizing everything about those who do
not share your holy and illustrious viewpoints.

I neither do it constantly nor with all others. You personalize many
discussions here. How do you explain that away?

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Yes, I copy down the screen name of the individual
I am replying to...call that "personalizing?" :-)

That is your problem
and you continually foul this newsgroup with arrogant remarks against
the person of those of opposite opinions. Not my problem but
certainly yours in attitude.

It doesn't seem to be a problem for me, Len. At the moment, judging
from your reply, it is one for you. Deal with it.

I did already. You got what you deserve. Be happy with that.

Amateur radio is supposed to be a recreation, a fun activity involving
radio, licensing required only because of physics of EM waves and
federal regulation.

It is all of that and more, old gent.

Yes, to you. To you, amateur radio is a wondrous experience where
you may have title, rank, privileges beyond your wildest dreams, of
doing things that mundane professionals could never do by constantly
recreating the past in the future and pioneering the HF airways. It is
your Lifestyle.

Ho hum.


Instead, you've turned it into a battleground of
your own, arrogantly demanding adherence to your personal view-
points.

No, I've not turned amateur radio into any battlegrounds nor did I note
your presence on any of the ham bands this past week.

Is it now a requirement to "have presence" on ham bands in order
to even speak of amateur radio?

Is the FCC requiring all Wireless Bureau staffers to have amateur
radio licenses in order to regulate U.S. amateur radio?

You join several others in here in so doing, some past, some
present. That's counter to the original purpose of "the service," isn't
it? Or is it?

Are you confusing amateur radio with this newsgroup? Is it your opinion
that I'm required to quietly accept your guff?

If I have to "accept" your guff, then you have to accept mine.

YOU deal with it. [in your own quaint SS manner, of course]


Perhaps you embody modern amateur radio, a constant striving for
leading the pack in competitive activity? A competition complete
with taunts and jibes and outright insults against those who
"challenge" your arrogant expertise? If so, there is no wonder that
amateur radio has not increased in number commensurate with
the growth in population.

Well, old chap, it looks as if you're wrong in your assumptions yet
again.

No, old chop, I don't "assume" anything. I tell it like it is. You are
just another arrogant control-freak wanting others to be subservient
to your viewpoints. You can't accept a damn thing if it isn't in line
with your holy opinions.

It is a cinch that you don't embody any of amateur radio--past,
present or future.

Absolutely TRUE. I've been a professional for over a half
century.

Herr Robust must think that professionals are not required to have
any recreation. Is it that way in your SS?

of which you accuse others. You are--what is it you call
it?..."beligerant" toward radio amateurs who tire of your tales of life
at ADA a half century ago.

So...if the U.S. Army hasn't been using OOK CW on HF for six
decades, that is "tiring?"

You must not be tired. You must be in coma. You are not
conscious of anything that has happened in the last six decades.

Enjoy your little clique of morse code uber alles in amateur radio
where the "bands" are only on HF. Feel superior that you've met all
the criteria and standards established by long-gone amateurs of past
times. You are important, superior, vital, and that is all that
matters.

I enjoy morse code, SSB, FM, RTTY, Pactor and several other modes on MW,
HF, VHF and UHF. My "little clique" numbers hundreds of thousands in
this country alone. I haven't noted your presence.

You wouldn't note anything. All you can see is your own glorious,
glowing presence radiating back at you.

No problem. YOUR presence hasn't been noted in any professional
writings or periodicals.

You should be demanding that ALL test for high rates of morse in
order to become fully FDA licensed as a ham. Condemn all those
who cannot learn, will not learn, nor share your opinions.

Morse or no morse, consider yourself condemned.

"Condemned" only to calling an asshole an asshole.

Not very holiday-like but it is true.


May Santa bring you an irrepairable intermittent in your favorite HF
transceiver along with a truckload of dusty, high-sulphur-content
coal in your stocking. Merry Christmas.

Do you really know of any irrepairable intermittents?

Yourself.

I have no need of
the coal. I heat with gas.

Everyone is aware of the "gas" you emit in here.

Say goodnight, Gracie.

LHA

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/21/03 2:20 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.

Why?

Morse Code is only required for access to less than 3% of all Amateur
allocations, none of which is above 30MHz.

I hope you meant, "most of which...," unless we just got some lowfer
freqs.

Lennie keeps asserting that the future of Amateur Radio is in the new
technologies, none of which is occuring below 30Mhz.

Why not? What have you been doing with that Extra license? I hope
that you haven't been squandering a national resource.

He's been collecting issues of QST and memorizing every ad.

That way he's going to be a "guru" and "know all about it."


Lennie ALSO keeps insisting Amateur Radio is "stuck" in the 1930's
somewhere, yet evidence in every media indicates he's grossly mistaken.

See the Annual Classic Radio Issue, plus the February, March, April,
May, June, July, August, September, October, November, and December
issues.

He might have gotten only to the March issue.

When he got to March he started counting cadence and hasn't
been seen for a while...


Also,
the fact that the majority of Amateur Radio activity takes place above
30Mhz
further exposes Lennie's rants for the silliness and antagonistic fodder
they
are.

Citation, please.

At best all he can do is a parking ticket. :-)


Ask Lennie? I could, but that would just amke the heap of unanswered
questions that much higher.

Humble yourself.

Do not ask the impossible. :-)

LHA

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

...written by many of the beligerant...

"belligerent"

...as long as such beligerance remains rooted

"belligerence"

Dave K8MN

Dave, once again, takes the honors at the national spelling bee,
beating out 9 year old Mary Caldwell, who ran off-stage in tears.

Actually, I took top honors from seventy-year-old Leonard "Atila"
Anderson, a PROFESSIONAL writer.

You couldn't take "top honors" on a toy top.

I've been a professional writer (accepting monetary compensation
for writing work performed) since 1968.

The age is 71, not 70.

Too bad you'll never make that age...

LHA

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.


You'll pardon our confusion.

Our confusion? Do you have a Frenchman in your pocket?

*Our* confusion--Steve's and mine. Steve wrote (and you snipped):

"Lennie's "disincentive" had/has NOTHING to do with Morse Code,
Brain...It has to do with having absolutely NO understanding of what
Amateur Radio is all about, what it's purpose and capabilities are, and
what it means to be a 'part' of something."

Steve doesn't appear to be confused with those comments. But I could
be mistaken. Why don't you get with him on the "back-channel," get
your stories straight, then meet up with me here at some point in the
future.

You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

I haven't.

Someone should tell you that he's busy writing his own views on the
subject...in a way.

I agreed with his view that amateur radio has a divide between those
who can accept change and those who cannot.

His view was thrown out by Steve because Len had no amateur license
and dare not have any views whatsoever on amateur radio.

I have a license and agreed with Len's view, so now it's "attack,
attack, attack," like rabid dogs. Pack mentality. Bad dog.

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Kim W5TIT"

writes:

Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/


pssssst, I think Len is superior at pulling Dave's strings...

Shhhh...don't tell anybody... :-) :-) :-)

Is this the part where you make me one of your playthings or have me
fall into one of your carefully laid snares, Len?

And he has arrived. Congratulations Dave.

...told ya. :-)

LHA

Beebeep!

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/22/03 1:10 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Jimmie isn't stating any "facts."

Lennie! Again with the belittling names towards people who don't do it to
you.

Do we need to re-post the posts wherein YOU stated you DON'T respond with
such cutesy names when not so addressed yourself?

It's been at least five years now that you've been calling Jim "Jimmie",
the "pedantic parson", etc.

Why do you lie? Why do you insist on making such obviously irresponsible
assertions only to have them fed back to you?

Is being an idiot a family curse?

Unlike the ARRL...which IS a dues-asking, amateur license required,
membership organization and political special interest group and a
publishing business, NCI does not pretend to represent "all" amateurs.

An Amateur Radio license is NOT required for membership in the American
Radio Relay League. It never has.

When the ARRL lobbies in washington, it DOES seek to represent ALL
Amateurs, dues paying or not.

I have yet to see the ARRL submit any document saying "We represent all
Amateurs except..(fill in the names)..."

ARRL pretends to "represent all amateurs" yet they still haven't
gotten close to a majority of all licensed U.S. amateurs to belong
to them. They've not been able to do that for years past.

Yet the ARRL IS accepted by the FCC and a number of other Washington
agencies as THE defacto representive of Amateur Radio as a whole.

This is a fact. It is not subject to YOUR opinion, Lennie.

Sorry.

ARRL refuses to take a stand on code testing in the USA yet the
International Amateur Radio Union long ago came out for eliminating
the code test internationally. Once that happens, NCI has stated
that it will dissolve, cease to exist as a special interest entity.

The code test requirement as an international regulation has been
eliminated.

So I don't see the NCI wrapping things up.

ARRL is your shepherd, you shall not want...

Lennie is an arrogant fool, we know this well...

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/23/03 12:00 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

That way he's going to be a "guru" and "know all about it."

Whatever I know about Amateur Radio is more than you can ever hope to know,
Your Scumminess...

Over 30 years of PRACTICAL experience.

Ask Lennie? I could, but that would just amke the heap of unanswered
questions that much higher.

Humble yourself.

Do not ask the impossible.

Lennie has clearly indicated that he does NOT have the experience in
Amateur Radio to make an informed opinion. His technical knowledge is dubious,
no doubt the off-spring of a well-honed cut-and-paste skill.

My only "humbling" before Lennie would be to not further embarass him with
his own foolishness.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/23/03 12:29 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The age is 71, not 70.

Too bad you'll never make that age...

Hopefully you won't make it PAST it.

Steve, K4YZ