"Scott" wrote in message
...
Hi folks.

Please allow me to give a "newbies" view on the current state of amateur
radio, and also ask a few questions.

I recently took my Technicians License exam and passed with a perfect
score.
(I bring up the score just to indicate that I studied hard, and took the
exam seriously). I am now studying to take the 5wpm mores code test. I
have
not yet purchased a radio, or even been "on the air". More on this is a
moment.

Sounds like you're off to a great start.

I have also joined a local radio club, whose first meeting I attended last
night. This club owns and maintains the local 2m repeater, and even though
it is an open repeater, if nothing else, I feel as though by joining, I am
helping to support a service which I plan on eventually using.

Makes good sense.

But what disappoints me is the fact that I left this meeting knowing
absolutely no more than I did when I walked into the door. I had been led
to
believe that one of the best ways for a new guy just becoming involved in
this hobby to get practical advice on things like your first purchase of
equipment, which bands are best for what, and the different applications
of
amateur radio, was to join a club. Well, unfortunately, the majority of
the
meeting I attended was, in my opinion, controlled by a group of 7 or 8
ham
"veterans" trying to impress one another with their technical knowledge.

Sad, truly sad. In the antique car club I belong to we always introduce
new members at the meeting, we also go around the room at least once
so anyone can ask a question, offer a bit of advice, etc. That fosters
even more 1 on 1 conversations after the meeting ends.

So, I guess what I would like to do here is give my views on what I have
seen so far, and invite anyone who is more informed on these matters to
correct me.

1) The Amateur Radio Service is not an essential element in our society.
Even in times of emergency, there is nothing you can do with a ham radio
that you can't do with an internet connection, fax machine, land line
telephone, or cell phone in similar circumstances. Ham Radio is a hobby,
and
like golf, gardening, bird watching, or any other hobby, it could cease to
exist tomorrow, and nothing would really change.

Wrong. Amateur radio can and has been the ONLY emergency
communications available in many emergencies. Think for a minute
about the scenario of an emergency. No electricity, no internet,
no fax and in many cases no landline if you don't have a plain vanilla
phone that is powered by the teephone line...and even if the
phone is line powered, many times even basic phone service is
out.

2) To me, the most appealing aspect to Ham Radio is the gaining of
knowledge. Learning the "in's and out's" of all that encompasses Ham Radio
o
peration is the true fun, whether it is dx'ing, satellite, CW or whatever.
But, like building a boat in a bottle, or even doing a crossword puzzle,
the
satisfaction comes in the steps taken to accomplish the task, not the end
result itself.

Different strokes for different folks. Some like the steps, some
the end result. There is no "norm" in my obinion.

3) From all accounts that I have heard, the number of new Amateur licenses
issued has been declining for years. This would tell me that the best way
to
save the hobby was to open new Hams with open arms, instead of clinging
white-knuckled to the past (packet radio, morse code etc.) look to the
future, and make it fun.

Not declining at all...but not growing significantly either.

Thanks for letting me rant folks. Now for some questions.

1) Can anyone point me towards any resources to assist someone brand new
to
the hobby? (Stuff like recommendations on the type of equipment to get for
the first time buyer)?

You need to tell us more about what type of on-the-air
you want to do.

2) Also, any sources to purchase used equipment. I think I would rather
buy
more functional used stuff, than new equipment that has less "bells and
whistles".

There's always EBAY plus the amateur magazines like QST and CQ.

3) One more thing...I am looking for information on antennas that is
geared
to the novice.

Check out the ARRL web site for the books and
publications they have available.

Cheers and welcome.
Bill K2UNK

A heart felt thank you to all that replied.

I guess my opinion that "Amateur Radio Service is not an essential element
in our society" was incorrect. I appreciate all that took the time to show
me where I was wrong. I stand corrected.

Re-reading my origanal post, I seem to have come off as a bit of an idiot. I
think maybe I should have taken things a little slower.

And once again, thanks for the gerat advice.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 09:06:09 -0600, "Scott"
wrote:

A heart felt thank you to all that replied.

I guess my opinion that "Amateur Radio Service is not an essential element
in our society" was incorrect. I appreciate all that took the time to show
me where I was wrong. I stand corrected.

Re-reading my origanal post, I seem to have come off as a bit of an idiot. I
think maybe I should have taken things a little slower.

Not at all, Scott. There was absolutely nothing wrong with any of
your comments or the way that you said them. Anyone new tends to be
viewed somewhat suspciously in this group - until their intentions are
clear. No big deal!

The unsociable amateurs that you met at the club are the idiots!

In fact, it's good for some of the long time hams here to see what the
views and impressions are of those who are new to the amateur radio -
it shows where improvements are needed to generate more interest in
the hobby. Your club, for example, could use someone in charge of
meeting with new members or visitors and introducing them around -
making them feel welcome.

And once again, thanks for the gerat advice.

Keep asking questions, Scott! When you get on the air for the first
time, you will meet lots of hams who will patiently guide you through
the mechanics of communicating with them - that's where the real fun
(and learning) begins! An example:

My first QSO on HF was with an informal net on 40 meters that I had
been listening to for a few days - and learning how it worked.
Finally, I got up the courage to push the button and say "Contact"
(like I'd heard the others do). The net controller invited me to call
in, I identified myself and told them that this was my first HF
contact since I passed my Morse Code test - and was promptly welcomed
in personally by over 20 other hams, several over 1000 miles away!
Best contact that I have ever had, and the friendliest bunch of people
that I have ever met. Still talk to most of them whenever I have the
chance.

Good luck, and have fun!

73, Leo

In article , "Scott"
writes:

A heart felt thank you to all that replied.

I guess my opinion that "Amateur Radio Service is not an essential element
in our society" was incorrect. I appreciate all that took the time to show
me where I was wrong. I stand corrected.

Only in THIS venue, Scott.

In THIS venue, all the pro-code newsgroupies require all to think,
act, do, behave, and moralize as they do.

To them, amateur radio is NOT a hobby, not a normal recreation.

It is a Way of Life. Comes complete with a rigid moral code.

Pro-coders RULE amateur radio (in here).

All who deviate from an inflexible code of ethics established in 1928
shall be punished (in here) by contant, unremitting pejorative
pummeling by the pro-coders for even daring to say one unkind
word about the Sacred Olde Ways of amateurdom.

Not only are they rigid and inflexible while marching in unified ranks,
they are generally without humor since they are near-absolute
literalists who demand (if not dictate) all following their Orders.

I've been trying to get a word in on the SUBJECT of morse code
testing and have been a constant target of character assassination
by these pro-code newsgroupies. No "civil debate" possible in that
cacophony of code.

Never mind that I got into big-time HF communications at a young
age (much more so than any other in here) and that led to a
career choice of electronics engineering (a decided major change
in education).

No matter. Heil says that is not enough "interest in radio," I must
learn morse code and become an amateur (NOT a professional) to
"show interest in radio."

The resident gunnery nurse spits on professionalism AND night
classes in EE, arming his slingshot with slimy spit and trying to
get down and give him 20 for talking against "superiors." Weird.

An olde-tymer of 48 going on 84 who lives in the past keeps
saying I am always "mistaken" and "incorrect" in another ploy of
perverse character assassination.

This is NOT anywhere close to a venue for "discussion of issues"
in amateur radio. It is a place for newsgroupies to gather and try
to turn into some kind of ARRL-south, to stir stock myths and
old ideas into a stew of meaty morse just like what HAD to be
done in the 1920s and 1930s.

Rigid, inflexible, all march to the same drumbeep.

Re-reading my origanal post, I seem to have come off as a bit of an idiot. I
think maybe I should have taken things a little slower.

No. I don't agree.

If any "error" was committed it was merely in underestimating the
vehemence of the pro-code Life Stylers, the worshippers of the
Church of St. Hiram, the Believers who take all their Life Guidance
from a single membership organization.

In Their view of ham radio, They say what "fun" is in The Service.


And once again, thanks for the gerat advice.

Amateur radio is an interesting, fascinating hobby, a recreational
pursuit involving an intriguing technology.

I'm coming up on my 51st anniversary of putting a 1 KW transmitter
on the air trans-Pacific. Radio and electronics is still fascinating
to me and I've explored a lot of it in the course of a half century.
Been in lots more of the EM spectrum than nearly all of these
rigid pure moralists in here. Never used morse code in all that time,
never had to. Used many more modes and modulations than are
allowed to amateurs. That's not enough!

According to all the pro-code newsgroupies in here, none of that is
"good enough for them." All must do as they did, learn morse code
and pass a morse test, for "morse code gets through when nothing
else will" (expletive deleted).

There can be NO talk or even a hint about changing the morse code
test regulation. Morse code testing MUST remain in the USA for
all radio amateurs. That is the only way to "real" U.S. ham radio.
Those who do not follow the dictates of the moral majority of
pro-code newsgroupies shall be banished from human society!

If the pro-coders had to do it, by darn, EVERYONE has to!

That's what it boils down to...a battle of newsgroup wills.

Those who haven't made out their "will" properly are to be
destroyed. [by any means possible...]

Hang in there, Scott. Pander to the would-be "authority wanna-bes"
if you have to...but GO YOUR OWN WAY. Be your own man, not
a puppet of those who dictate what you can do, what you shall
enjoy, what you must do to please them.

Independent thought is GOOD!

Leonard H. Anderson
retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , "Scott"
writes:

A heart felt thank you to all that replied.

I guess my opinion that "Amateur Radio Service is not an essential element
in our society" was incorrect. I appreciate all that took the time to show
me where I was wrong. I stand corrected.

Only in THIS venue, Scott.

In THIS venue, all the pro-code newsgroupies require all to think,
act, do, behave, and moralize as they do.

A blatant lie from someone who finds it easy to lie.

I've been trying to get a word in on the SUBJECT of morse code
testing and have been a constant target of character assassination
by these pro-code newsgroupies. No "civil debate" possible in that
cacophony of code.

Another lie. The subject has been "debated", discussed and
dissected until all are nauseous of the topic anymore.

That Lennie has nothing else to discuss as it pertains to Amateur
Radio should be a clue to those new to this forum that would be swayed
by his "debating style".

You've taken grand liberty with the term "literary license" and
have grossly abused any sense of social propriety so many times that
your name is synonomous with "liar" and "antagonist".

That is NOT "civil debate".

No matter. Heil says that is not enough "interest in radio," I must
learn morse code and become an amateur (NOT a professional) to
"show interest in radio."

AMATEUR Radio, Lennie...You have exactly zero-point-zero minutes
of experience in AMATEUR Radio. No one, repeat NO one in this forum
denies that the technology and propagation of radio waves is any
different in any other radio service.

It's the PRACTICE and the APPLICATION of the technology that
makes the difference.

The resident gunnery nurse spits on professionalism AND night
classes in EE, arming his slingshot with slimy spit and trying to
get down and give him 20 for talking against "superiors." Weird.

The "wierd" one here is someone who enters a forum for which he
has expressed absolutely NO interest in being an active part of then
trying to tell those who ARE involved how to go about thier business.

And I do not spit on "professionalism" Lennie.

That assertion is yet ANOTHER lie from somone whio finds it EASY
to lie. I have nothing but the highest regard for professionals in ANY
field...It's just that I have absolutely ZERO respect for YOU since
you've made such a mockery of the title.

An olde-tymer of 48 going on 84 who lives in the past keeps
saying I am always "mistaken" and "incorrect" in another ploy of
perverse character assassination.

Well, Lennie, if you weren't always "mistaken" or "incorrect", I
wouldn't have any room to maneuver, now would I?

As for "going on 84", I will gladly jog around the block a few
times with you or see how well you do carrying a full field pack on
the rescue team. NOW who is involved in another "ploy of pervase
character assassination"...?!?!

This is NOT anywhere close to a venue for "discussion of issues"
in amateur radio. It is a place for newsgroupies to gather and try
to turn into some kind of ARRL-south, to stir stock myths and
old ideas into a stew of meaty morse just like what HAD to be
done in the 1920s and 1930s.

Since YOU seem to be the only one who deems it important to
interject arguments about Morse Code into threads that don't even
adress it, I'd say the fixation is yours, Oh Putzy One.

Rigid, inflexible, all march to the same drumbeep.

That's what YOU would have us doing...One license...everyone the
same...no challenge, skill or functionality...Just a corral of lambs,
beying to the Word of Lennie the Professional.

I'm coming up on my 51st anniversary of putting a 1 KW transmitter
on the air trans-Pacific.

It wasn't YOUR station, Lennie...It was a facility of the United
States Army. They could have just as easily made you a diesel
mechanic...Perhaps then you would have been harrassing the
professional truck drivers.

Army manuals and a Senior NCO told you what to do and how to do
it. They gave you an FM or TM (or the equivelent of the period) and
said "do this".

Biggie wow. We are soooooooooo impressed that YOU were able to
follow instructions "putting a 1KW transmitter on the air
trans-Pacific".

Radio and electronics is still fascinating
to me and I've explored a lot of it in the course of a half century.
Been in lots more of the EM spectrum than nearly all of these
rigid pure moralists in here. Never used morse code in all that time,
never had to. Used many more modes and modulations than are
allowed to amateurs. That's not enough!

Your "exploration" has been as a paid employee, never being
allowed to use the "radio" as AMATEURS use thiers.

That you never used Morse Code is not germane. Millions of other
radio users never use it either. So what?

Hang in there, Scott. Pander to the would-be "authority wanna-bes"
if you have to...but GO YOUR OWN WAY. Be your own man, not
a puppet of those who dictate what you can do, what you shall
enjoy, what you must do to please them.

Independent thought is GOOD!

Independent thought IS good, as long as it is LENNIE'S
independent thought. The "regulars" of this forum are, for the most
part, life long Amateur Radio operators with the experience in AMATEUR
RADIO to know of which they speak.

Leonard H. Anderson
retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person

Leonard H. Anderson, retired from regular hours engineer, is a
known pathological liar and newsgroup antagonist.

That he felt compelled to post this "defense" of HIS "career" in
this forum without having actually been a part of the thread is only
further evidence of his own self-appreciating, "me first" personality
and his total arrogance towards the very CONCEPT of Amateur Radio and
those who praticipate in it.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message om...

those who praticipate in it.

Ooooops. Made a new word!

Steve

In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
. com...

those who praticipate in it.

Ooooops. Made a new word!

...and a mess on the newsgroup floor. Bad doggie. Go sit in corner.

LHA / WMD

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message om...

those who praticipate in it.

Ooooops. Made a new word!

Steve

Looks like you've been attending "Anger Management."

In article ,
(Stebe Robeson, still in the throes of PMS (Powerful Marine Syndrome) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , "Scott"
writes:

A heart felt thank you to all that replied.

I guess my opinion that "Amateur Radio Service is not an essential element
in our society" was incorrect. I appreciate all that took the time to show
me where I was wrong. I stand corrected.

Only in THIS venue, Scott.

In THIS venue, all the pro-code newsgroupies require all to think,
act, do, behave, and moralize as they do.


And I do not spit on "professionalism" Lennie.

Of course you do. Everyone has seen it in this free, open,
unmoderated forum.

You "knew everything about electronics engineering" after working
less than a year as a purchasing agent in a company making
set-top boxes and modems. :-)

You've consistantly tried to equate college night courses with some
kind of alliterative low-grade "night school."

You've consistantly said I was a mere "bench technician" rather
than a design engineer...yet you've never tried to check with any of
the past employers I've listed nor contacted any of the U.S. radio
amateurs I've listed as references.

That assertion is yet ANOTHER lie from somone whio finds it EASY
to lie. I have nothing but the highest regard for professionals in ANY
field...It's just that I have absolutely ZERO respect for YOU since
you've made such a mockery of the title.

"Mockery?" From the expert Dill Instructor with hardly any work
experience in ANY engineering? :-)

Tsk, tsk, tsk...all you do is vent hatred and bile against another
because that is your nature in here...always insulting the person
who has opinions rather than tackling the subject matter...and,
when there is no possibility of a valid response to the subject, just
more heaping of insults against a person.


As for "going on 84", I will gladly jog around the block a few
times with you or see how well you do carrying a full field pack on
the rescue team. NOW who is involved in another "ploy of pervase
character assassination"...?!?!

Tsk, tsk, tsk...Stebe reacting as if He were the only one mentioned.

:-)

Unless Stebe moved (again?), He does not live in Pennsylvania
nor is he a renowned amateur historian.

Stebe should pack and rescue his "team" in order to carry more
insults and pejorative phrases to the masses to avenge his
wounded psyche.

This is NOT anywhere close to a venue for "discussion of issues"
in amateur radio. It is a place for newsgroupies to gather and try
to turn into some kind of ARRL-south, to stir stock myths and
old ideas into a stew of meaty morse just like what HAD to be
done in the 1920s and 1930s.

Since YOU seem to be the only one who deems it important to
interject arguments about Morse Code into threads that don't even
adress it, I'd say the fixation is yours, Oh Putzy One.

Absolutely. I interject comments about the beloved smartness of
the morse code test at any opportunity.

Contrary to your personal (weird) beliefs, just getting into U.S.
amateur radio on HF allocations requires a morse test. [see subject
title "A Newbies View On Things"]

Some of us desire to change the amateur regulations and eliminate
the morse code test. Being a "member of the amateur community"
through licensing is not required to change federal laws [see the
U.S. Constitution in regard to who may communicate with their
government].

Rigid, inflexible, all march to the same drumbeep.

That's what YOU would have us doing...One license...everyone the
same...no challenge, skill or functionality...Just a corral of lambs,
beying to the Word of Lennie the Professional.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Are lambs kept in "corrals" and do they "bey?" :-)

Tsk, tsk, tsk...once again on the "no challenge, skill or functionality"
by having a single amateur license? That's a mind-boggler but it
does explain Stebe's own claim of "skill and function" represented
solely by an amateur radio class designation.

If "challenge, skill, or functionality (?)" are achieved only by passing
a CLASS test, then all Amateur Extras can "stop learning" on
receiving that class grant. There's NO "challenge or skill" left for
them once that has been done. :-)

All amateur learning STOPS after achieving Extra in Stebe's World.

That explains much of Stebe's output... :-)

LHA / WMD

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Stebe Robeson, still in the throes of PMS (Powerful Marine Syndrome) writes:

(Lennie exhibits yet again his "accuse OTHERS of "character
assassination, then deny, deny, deny...)

And I do not spit on "professionalism" Lennie.

Of course you do. Everyone has seen it in this free, open,
unmoderated forum.

What YOU represent is not what anyone that I know calls
"professionalism".

You have the tools to make a difference in Amateur Radio, yet
your only action is to antagonize, humiliate and insult in this forum.

Hardly "professional" in ANYone's definition.

You "knew everything about electronics engineering" after working
less than a year as a purchasing agent in a company making
set-top boxes and modems.

You will, of course, provide the reference for the "quote" you
just cited?

You've consistantly tried to equate college night courses with some
kind of alliterative low-grade "night school."

No, Lennie, YOU have demonstrated that it's some kind of
allitaritive low-grade "night school" by your assertion of
"professionalism" and subsequent conduct herein.

You've consistantly said I was a mere "bench technician" rather
than a design engineer...yet you've never tried to check with any of
the past employers I've listed nor contacted any of the U.S. radio
amateurs I've listed as references.

I have yet to find any product in my home or in MY profession
that has your hand in it, Lennie.

And discussions with people who knew you placed your
"contributions" at teh bench technician level...I just picked up on
it.

That assertion is yet ANOTHER lie from somone whio finds it EASY
to lie. I have nothing but the highest regard for professionals in ANY
field...It's just that I have absolutely ZERO respect for YOU since
you've made such a mockery of the title.

"Mockery?" From the expert Dill Instructor with hardly any work
experience in ANY engineering?

This forum is NOT about "engineering", Your Scumminess. It's
about Amateur Radio.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...all you do is vent hatred and bile against another
because that is your nature in here...always insulting the person
who has opinions rather than tackling the subject matter...and,
when there is no possibility of a valid response to the subject, just
more heaping of insults against a person.

The "opinions" you express are as received as equally injurous as
YOU receive against you.

The only problem is that you seem to think you are the only one
with a valid opinion. THAT makes you arrogant.

As for "going on 84", I will gladly jog around the block a few
times with you or see how well you do carrying a full field pack on
the rescue team. NOW who is involved in another "ploy of pervase
character assassination"...?!?!

Tsk, tsk, tsk...Stebe reacting as if He were the only one mentioned.

Well, Lennie...YOU said "48 going on 84"...

To WHOM were you refering?

And I will STILL mount up taht pack and take a jog around the
block with you...You also accused me of being "pudgy", yet evidence to
the contrary ahs been presented.

More of that Andersonian "character assassination" going on, I
see...

Unless Stebe moved (again?), He does not live in Pennsylvania
nor is he a renowned amateur historian.

I need to live in Pennsylvania or be a historian to make a fool
out of you...?!?!

I don't THINK so!

Since YOU seem to be the only one who deems it important to
interject arguments about Morse Code into threads that don't even
adress it, I'd say the fixation is yours, Oh Putzy One.

Absolutely. I interject comments about the beloved smartness of
the morse code test at any opportunity.

And when the thread is NOT about Morse Code, that makes you a
troll.

Contrary to your personal (weird) beliefs, just getting into U.S.
amateur radio on HF allocations requires a morse test. [see subject
title "A Newbies View On Things"]

Sorry, Scummy One...

FEDERAL LAW requires that one know Morse Code to have access to
the Amateur HF allocations. This was based upon international
convention which has since been changed. The United States Government
is presently in the public comment phase of chainging that
requirement.

My only "belief" is that one should comply with the law as it
exists while it exisits.

You seem to think selective law compliance is OK.

Some of us desire to change the amateur regulations and eliminate
the morse code test. Being a "member of the amateur community"
through licensing is not required to change federal laws [see the
U.S. Constitution in regard to who may communicate with their
government].

Then communicate with them. Your presence and practice here is
antagonistic and argumentitive. You long ago lost any initiative on
your "opinions" when you started in on individuals.

All amateur learning STOPS after achieving Extra in Stebe's World.

If that's what you think, Lennie, and that's what you NEED to
believe in order to sleep at night, well, who am I to deny you a good
night's sleep. That it's not true is inconsequential to YOUR needs....

Steve, K4YZ