JJ wrote:
Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have
nothing to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with
personal grudges and vendettas have reached a level where they are
almost totally dominating the newsgroup on many, if not most, days.

I believe that a lot of good folks, like Ed Hare, for one ... aren't
around any more because they got sick of wading through all of the
extraneous crap ...
our "community" here is worse off for the loss of such folks'
contributions to the *real* discussions, and it's a shame ...

Carl - wk3c

If you start ignoring lenny the lame, cber stevie the stupid, and wee
willie winkie, things get better.


Don't forget no-call JJ, he goes by kid dyno-mite on his cb.

In article , Leo
writes:

On 03 Apr 2004 19:28:24 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

snip

Please excuse my absence. I am preparing some Replies to
Comments to my government on federal regulations.

Which is a very commendable and proactive thing to do - and is, as you
know, the only effective method of advising the regulatory folks of
valid objections to their proposed new rules and policies. The more
cogent objections that they receive, the better.

I've sent about 76 or so Comments to our FCC. Haven't made an
accurate tally lately but anyone can do it on the FCC ECFS
using just my legal signature name.

Thank you, Len, for taking the time to do so. Your effort is
appreciated.

Not everyone "appreciates" it. My first Comment was on FCC
98-143, the NPRM for Amateur Radio Restructuring. I was
quite busy with other things during 1998-1997 Holiday time
but got 14 text pages into the Commission a few days before
the official close of commentary (all paper, multiple copies, a
diskette, sent Express Mail registered).

12 days after my Comment appeared on the ECFS, the gunnery
nurse sent a "comment" which said absolutely nothing about
the contents of my text, just that "I had no business getting
involved in amateur radio matters because I had no license!"
[See proceedings 98-143 for 25 January 1999...still there]

Trying to cancel another citizen's basic First Amendment Right
is not to be taken lightly down in this country. There ARE self-
righteous SOBs here who think nothing of tramping all over
others' rights.

[SOB = Son Of Beeper in case Rev. Jim is listening in...]

Up to 3 years after that, a few in here wanted to ARGUE
that same Comment text content, extract several pounds of
flesh, etc., all at various times, just to make themselves feel
good, self-righteous, etc., etc. Necro-equine flaggelation.

But, that's all in the normal course of events. I've been doing
computer-modem communications for nearly 20 years and have
become rather thick skinned to all the yahoos who feel "safe"
cussing out other folks they don't like. :-)

["razzbonyas" = yahoos in some parts of Wisconsin, Minnesota]

I'm sure that you agree that those who do not see themselves as being
part of the solution are usually part of the problem.....

Actually, I don't. I see that some folks are just problems and the
subject matter is irrelevant as long as they have a Cuss Venue.

A few will actually take the time to discuss a subject civilly, but
that has always been rare.

No doubt I
will once again by rewarded by an Amateur Extra licensee
demanding I be censored and censured for exercising my First
Amendment Rights to my government.

Of course - more than one, most likely. And that syndrome is. I
think, what annoyed Carl enough to prompt this posting (and he
certainly ain't alone there...). For example, you post something,
then several others jump on you to 'prove you wrong', then others jump
on them to 'prove them wrong', etc. Newsgroup warriors (MinutiaeMen?)
all, fighting a never-ending battle for something or other.....but the
real issues, those which threaten the amateur radio hobby, will not
be decided in this forum. Or in that manner.

Heh heh heh..."MinutaeMen!" Apt. Bang-on as those in the UK say.

Decisions in here? Nil. But, checking the mail in here gives more
rounding to what two sides on an issue feel. Once in a rare while
there's a link to another site for information that may be useful.

"Link" other than the "go to ARRL website...worth a good read"
kind of imperative. :-)

Most of the heated battles that go on in any computer-modem
venue (regardless of subject) are almost entirely for attempts to
Get The Last Word Superiority Over Others...or to develop some
sort of Guru Image to Impress Others, get a "rep" or similar,
especially in a techie type of venue. Some of it is hilarious. :-)

It's been that way ever since Usenet got started decades ago,
got into BBS nets, and now infects all the newsgroups sooner
or later. There be a whole lot of murderous resentment by many
at being Talked Back To...their self-righteousness knows no
bounds!

My good buddy Patty once wrote a general remark when we
co-moderated a BBS public board, "Sometimes the loudest
sound you hear is your own mind screaming in the empty,
silent room." That's poetic and to the point for much of it.

But, having said that, now watch someone try to butt in, making
noises about intimations of misconduct with a "lady friend" even
though we were good friends of opposite gender. Some live to
throw dirt even if they are in a vast ocean. :-)

It would be good to see some of that energy channeled into positive
and proactive channels - such as replying to the FCC on issues which
threaten the hobby. Which you, and a few others, have done and
continue to do.

I totally agree. But, that takes actual WORK!

It's so much easier to sit back and toss [expletive deleteds] in a
newsgroup, pull others' chains, and snicker in the safety of time
and space isolation of network interchange delays. Some demand
both invisibility in identity and respect for something they can't
prove or reference. Marvelous. A fine catharsis for the timid.

Others, unfortunately, don't see it that way.

In my opinion, it's similar to the election process - if some guy
didn't take the time to go out and vote, who cares when he complains
that the wrong guy won....TS, I say.

Good point. But the complaining MUST go on...imperative...that's
"only human." :-)

In two decades of modeming, I've worn out several TS Card punches,
busy at clicking away at sooooo many cards! :-)

Censorship is wonderful, don't you wish everyone had it?

Not censorship - perhaps initiative?

Good choice.

But, I was remarking in a much different semantic direction. :-)

LHA / WMD

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

I read each and every one of your posts that I see in this group.
Wouldn't miss them.

Does the phrase "nobody's perfect" apply to you, Mike? :-)

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that
is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed
to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with
...

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.

"Noise" can be much reduced by making and installing appropriate
shielding structures.

The key to happiness and nirvana would be a restricted-access
newsgroup, moderated so that all got along happily ever after.
That is the "shielding" which can be applied to keep out independent
thought, outside interference, and find sanctuary for all worshipping
the past of "the service" just like they had to do.

Of course someone who has bad screen days in here should
expend the effort to begin constructing such "shielding." Everyone
talks about it but no one is doing anything about it.

"Mankind invented language to satisfy his need to complain." - anon.

LHA / WMD

Maybe nocall JJ should be the moderator. He has shown a propensity to
know what is right and just, and having no call, could be a proponent
for the unlicensed and unwashed.

And if you don't believe me, just ask him.

If Nocall JJ were a proponent, we wouldn't have any way to
reference it. "Stealth" newsgrouping, ya know.

No call = No ham.

Meat service department = ham. [ring bell for service]

He mebbe go Somalia, do good deeds.

He mebbe do Seven Hostile Actions, be big hero.

No JJ = No loss.

LHA / WMD

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/3/2004 10:50 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(ugly
little mentally-seven-year-old very-amateur extra) writes:

Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier
ashtrays
and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably
even
picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long enough
to get his pants off....

Tsk, tsk, tsk...ugly little comment from an ugly little person.

Members of the Technical Staff III didn't do janitorial services at
Rocketdyne. That was my work title...(SNIP)

That IS what all your pontificating, strutting and crowing is ALL
about, Lennie...

Now now...you were implying I was into homosexual activity
while working at Rocketdyne AND that I was a janitor.

I did neither and merely did a synopsis of slightly more than 3
years of real employment in an engineering group.

Note the years I included. A decade before the Internet went
public..a few years before the BBSs got into expansion.

Titles...

You belittle every licensed Radio Amateur for alledgedly being
predisposed
with "rank, title and priviledge", yet it's your own "rank, title and
priviledge" that you want to talk about here.

I'm not interested in talking about myself. I was answering your
ugly little charge of homosexual activity while doing janitor work
at Rocketdyne.

Feel free to contact Jim Hall, KD6JG. Jim was a Staff Engineer
at Rocketdyne and didn't retire from there until Boeing bought
the place from Rockwell International. Jim has been in amateur
radio as well as professional radio since before 1956. He will
tell you that I was an MTS at Rocketdyne...we worked in the same
department. Jim was also my immediate manager at RCA
Corporation for 5 years in the Postion Location Engineering group.

Feel free to contact Al Walston, W6MJN. Al and I shared an
office cubicle at RCA. Al was also Best Man at my wedding,
a wedding which was NOT "same sex."

Hot flash, Lennie...

All that spouting about Rocketdyne, your FCC first phone ticket, etc etc
etc got you absolutely not ONE step closer to being a licensed Amateur.

I'm not interested in getting my very own amateur radio license.

I'm trying to talk about real POLICY issues, concentrating on the
elimination of the morse code test for any license examination.

All you want to do is make insults on others, charge them with
homosexual conduct, and say they've never done anything but
menial work. That's sickness on your part.

Not one.

The Deformable Mirror program...(SNIP)

...has absolutely nothing to do with Amateur Radio, BPL, Morse Code
testing, my service in the Marines or your lack of any practical experience in
the Amateur Radio Service, although I am sure it helped you vent a lot of
frustration and made you feel like a big man for reciting it yet again...

It doesn't "feel good" for me to sit here and refute a lot of LIES
you generate about my person.

Just the same, you feel you have a need to LIE about others, to
insult them every time you get the slightest negative response to
your postings.

Charging that I engaged in homosexual conduct while working as
a janitor at Rocketdyne is a double LIE.

Saying I engaged in homosexual activity at any time would be a LIE.

Saying I worked as a janitor at any place of employment is a LIE.

Saying my wife was a "correspondence school" graduate is a LIE.
My wife as Two Masters Degrees, both of which were granted
after taking formal classes at the University of Illinois. Prior to that
she got a BA from four years at a small college in Beloit,
Wisconsin, attending formal classes all four years.

Saying insults against my person as if they were factual is a LIE.

In general, you fabricate more LIES about others than you say
facts.

When you say you've done things, you don't give enough details
to prove anything to anyone...which is a form of LYING.

And through ALL OF THAT, you're STILL a putz.

Sheeeeesh.

You have enough demonstrated symptoms of mental illness from
all the public displays of inability to interface with other humans.
You should seek mental therapy to alleviate that. Do so.

Shalom, meshugge goyim.

LHA / WMD

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message ...

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest
Extra')
From: "Carl R. Stevenson"
Date: 4/2/2004 7:48 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Thank-you for having expressed your God Given Opinon in accordance
with
your Constitutional Rights, Carl.

Veterans, Take a bow. Carl made use of your sacrifices.

Steve ... why the [expletive deleted for Jim's benefit] do you have to play
the "veterans" card?
I have an honorable discharge, too ... Vietnam era, though I never left the
states ... but I don't see a need to flaunt it ... why do you seem to play
on your military service when you don't have a good excuse for bad behavior?

Carl, why do YOU seem to have a problem with me giving a nod to
veterans for having been able to provide you YOUR right to post your
uncensored opinion? Are you now insinuating that the sacrifices made
by veterans in defense of your freedom to do so was wrong?

Congrats on the Veteran status. After you're done brow-beating
me for having made an affirmative comment to Vets, reach around and
give yourself a pat on the back from me...You deserve it.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article . net, "Bill Sohl"
writes:

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.

Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain
regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they
inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults.

But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true?

Cheers to all who use common sense, logic and a few
ounces of forthought before posting :-)

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have nothing
to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with personal grudges
and vendettas have reached a level where they are almost totally dominating
the newsgroup on many, if not most, days.

I believe that a lot of good folks, like Ed Hare, for one ... aren't around
any more because they got sick of wading through all of the extraneous crap
...
our "community" here is worse off for the loss of such folks' contributions
to the *real* discussions, and it's a shame ...

I agree 100%, Carl.

So what should folks like you and I do about it?

In particular, when someone posts information that is flat out wrong, should we
simply ignore it or challenge it?

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have
nothing
to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with personal
grudges
and vendettas have reached a level where they are almost totally
dominating
the newsgroup on many, if not most, days.

I believe that a lot of good folks, like Ed Hare, for one ... aren't
around
any more because they got sick of wading through all of the extraneous
crap
...
our "community" here is worse off for the loss of such folks'
contributions
to the *real* discussions, and it's a shame ...

I agree 100%, Carl.

So what should folks like you and I do about it?

Jim,

I hate to "kill-file" folks - they *might* just say something relevant at
some point, but I'm considering it for a few individuals whose posts are
mostly personal vendetta-like attacks and insults ...

In particular, when someone posts information that is flat out wrong,
should we simply ignore it or challenge it?

If we see it and know it to be wrong, I think we should challenge it.
However, it is not my job (nor, I suspect yours) to wade through all of
their drivel in search of a relevant, incorrect assertion so that it might
be challenged.

I tend to think that most people will give little credence to whatever some
of these folks say, just on the basis of the tone and content of most of
their messages. I am just finding it annoying to have the newsgroup
polluted with so much OT stuff - newsgroup BPL, I think Mike called it.

73,
Carl - wk3c




73 de Jim, N2EY

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
om...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...

Thank-you for having expressed your God Given Opinon in
accordance
with
your Constitutional Rights, Carl.

Veterans, Take a bow. Carl made use of your sacrifices.

Steve ... why the [expletive deleted for Jim's benefit] do you have to
play
the "veterans" card?
I have an honorable discharge, too ... Vietnam era, though I never left
the
states ... but I don't see a need to flaunt it ... why do you seem to
play
on your military service when you don't have a good excuse for bad
behavior?

Carl, why do YOU seem to have a problem with me giving a nod to
veterans for having been able to provide you YOUR right to post your
uncensored opinion?

Because your "nod to veterans" was just an obviously insincere, self-serving
"shot" at me, and not a genuine "hats off" to those who made sacrifices.

Are you now insinuating that the sacrifices made by veterans in defense
of your freedom to do so was wrong?

You have a perverse way of trying to twist things to your own purpose Steve
....

Congrats on the Veteran status. After you're done brow-beating
me for having made an affirmative comment to Vets, reach around and
give yourself a pat on the back from me...You deserve it.

Had your "affirmative comments to Vets" been sincere and legitimate, rather
than a self-serving attempt at a cheap shot, I wouldn't have said anything.
But, I resent *your* constantly trying to suck some personal debating
advantage (not that you get it) or "holier than thoubrownie points" out of
your service ... why do you think Len refers to you as "the gunnery nurse?"
(Hint - it's to emphasize the way you make a fool out of yourself by trying
to "play the vet card.")

OK ... now you can call *me* a putz ... and you're at the top of the
potential kill-file list - but I wish you'd give EVERYONE a break for the
benefit of the newsgroup.

Carl - wk3c