"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

| I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve,
| Len, and a few others rag on each other endlessly.alt"
| and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really
| would like to discuss amateur radio regulatory and
| policy issues ...

I third the notion.

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...


Gentlemen, your comments are well spoken and have much merit.

I wonder why, however, many of you selectively decide when to complain
about the "noise".

Myself and others have "sponsored" many-a-thread championing spectrum
protection, VE testing integrity and other "on topic" (ie: policy subjects)
only to have most of you presently commenting (with the exception of Mike
Coslo) pulling the "topics" into the usual 'know code/no code' silliness and
worn out rhetoric, often deteriorating into the "stupid bickering about
individual and personalities" that you presently lament.

I do believe it to be a bit of hypocracy, Gentlemen.

We'll see.

73

Steve, K4YZ

The many threads that you sponsor are usually titled, "Lend Steps in
own Feces" or some such other lunacy.

There is no selectivity. You bring criticism upon yourself for being
such a jerk.

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...

I see.

And you see my "crap" as being solely responsible.

Uh huh...

73

Steve, K4YZ

Steve, I hate to be the one to have to point this out to you, but you
are personally responsible for 100% of what you post. Every bit of
it.

Don't go whining and crying and saying, "He made me do it! I'm not
really this way. It's him, it's all him! Whah, whah, whah."

Take a little personal responsibility for yourself.

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/4/2004 1:37 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the
email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my
option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it.
This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email.

If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little
easier to handle.

Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior?

Why do you think anyone's "behavior" needs modification?

Consider that the few clues of just written words are not always
interpreted the same by different human beans.

Some folks cannot write well. Others can. A very few others
have considerable practice with writing in many different venues.

Individual perception needs honing in written-only environments.

Coming from someone who is always demanding that others "seek mental
health counselling", this was precious.

"Why", indeed, Lennie..."why" indeed...

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: (William)
Date: 4/4/2004 5:05 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

The many threads that you sponsor are usually titled, "Lend Steps in
own Feces" or some such other lunacy.

There is no selectivity. You bring criticism upon yourself for being
such a jerk.


(1) Who's "Lend"...?!?!

(2) If "Lend", or whoever, wasn't making so many stupid, easily refuted
misrepresentations about Amateur Radio in general or certain persons in
particular, threads like those you mention wouldn't show up.

(3) As for "selectivity", I believe I've been VERY selective. Unless you
can prove differently?

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: (William)
Date: 4/4/2004 5:17 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Take a little personal responsibility for yourself.

I do, Brian.

I accept responsibility for what I post. That's why when I post something
that is later proven to be other than what I suggested it was I say "I stand
corrected" or otherwise acknowledge my error.

You have yet to do that despite having been proven "wrong" over and over.
You'd rather compound your humiliation with even more elaborate dodges.

Nice try.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:

In article . net, "Bill

Sohl"

writes:


Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.

Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain
regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they
inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults.

But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true?

Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap


prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to
participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size
of little willie to gargantuan proportions?

You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the
email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my
option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it.
This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email.

If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little
easier to handle.

Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior?


Why do you think anyone's "behavior" needs modification?

I don't. Do you think I do from what I posted?


Consider that the few clues of just written words are not always
interpreted the same by different human beans.

Some folks cannot write well. Others can. A very few others
have considerable practice with writing in many different venues.

Individual perception needs honing in written-only environments.


Or Steve or
Brian's? Not hardly likely! I don't even want to. I like 'em all just
the way they are.


I don't think you "like" them, but that's beside the point. :-)

Sorry, but I actually do like both of them. You too.`

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article . net, "Bill
Sohl"
writes:


Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.


Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain
regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they
inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults.

But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true?

Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap

prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to
participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size
of little willie to gargantuan proportions?

You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to the
point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was spam, and
I'd delete it unread.

You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the
email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my
option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it.
This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email.

In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my personal
email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff from the
various reflectors, though.

If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little
easier to handle.

Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking about
it.

Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior?

Only Len can do that.

Or Steve or Brian's?

It's up to them.

Not hardly likely!

Agreed.

I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are.

You like the noise? I don't.

And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good people
like W1RFI.

If a person has problems with what they post, they can
avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing
his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves.

Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he







that's pretty true.

Newsgrouo BPL - very descriptive.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:

In article . net, "Bill

Sohl"

writes:



Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.


Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain
regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they
inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults.

But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true?

Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap


prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to
participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size
of little willie to gargantuan proportions?


You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to the
point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was spam, and
I'd delete it unread.


You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the
email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my
option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it.
This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email.


In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my personal
email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff from the
various reflectors, though.

My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many
places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a
number.

Many of the spammers simply use a random group of letters followed by a
semi-random group of numbers, and viola, "you have spam!"

It is chilling to think of how much bandwidth that wastes.

If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little
easier to handle.


Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking about
it.


Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior?


Only Len can do that.

And I think he is quite happy with the way he is!


Or Steve or Brian's?


It's up to them.


Not hardly likely!


Agreed.


I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are.


You like the noise? I don't.

Oh no! But I separate the noise from the person

And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good people
like W1RFI.

That is too bad, but I liken the situation to stopping driving because
there are wild drivers out on the road.

Once I left a group because of problems with certain posters. It was an
amateur telescope making SIG. I was getting personal email nastygrams
from one member on every post I made, and a couple others seemed to
agree with him. So I left the group. A week after that, I found out the
person doing this had passed away. Turns out he was a terminal cancer
case, and was on a LOT of pain killing drugs. I felt pretty awkward for
being so p****d off at him earlier.

Point is, maybe some people are less than pleasant, but we aren't
always sure why.

If a person has problems with what they post, they can
avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing
his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves.


Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he







that's pretty true.

Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere.

Newsgroup BPL - very descriptive.

I think so.

- Mike KB3EIA -

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004, Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
I hereby propose that we rename RRAP to "rec.Steve, Len, and a few others
rag on each other endlessly.alt"
and create a new newsgroup for those of us who really would like to discuss
amateur radio regulatory and policy
issues ...

rec.radio.amateur.bitchfest seems more appropriate - and better than .misc.

I'm getting REALLY tired of all of this endless, childish bickering that is
OT and doesn't belong here ...
most days, it's hard to find the stuff that this newsgroup is supposed to
be for because of the volume
of petty, personal bickering that you guys load the newsgroup up with ...

Or, alternatively, you guys can go rag on each other in
rec.radio.amateur.misc like it used to be (and why
this group was created in the first place if memory serves me correctly - to
provide a place for the serious
regulatory/policy discussion after rec.radio.amateur.misc turned into the
sort of argue_about_off_topic_things
fest that you guys have going on here ...

OK, there ... I've said my peace and now you can tell me to [expletive
deleted for Jim's benefit] off ...

Carl - wk3c

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Candidate for 'Youngest Extra'
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 4/2/2004 4:19 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Just get the damn license Len, it aint rocket science.

I know "rocket science" after working three years at
Rocketdyne Division of Rockwell International, the makers
of the Space Shuttle Main Engine and the F1 main-stage
engines of the Saturn Rocket (Apollo Program lifter).

I am sure that while cleaning the floors and emptying out thier
ashtrays
and coffee cups, you got to know a LOT of "rocket scientists"...Probably
even
picked up enough "lingo" to impress some "young thing" at a bar long
enough to
get his pants off....

I've also had four other [expletive deleted] radio licenses.

The best [expletive deleted] radio licenses money could buy.

But none of them an Amateur Radio license.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ