"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: "Carl R. Stevenson"
Date: 4/3/2004 7:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
[snip]

Gentlemen, your comments are well spoken and have much merit.

I wonder why, however, many of you selectively decide when to
complain
about the "noise".

Steve,

The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have
nothing
to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with personal
grudges
and vendettas have reached a level where they are almost totally
dominating
the newsgroup on many, if not most, days.

I see.

And you see my "crap" as being solely responsible.

Uh huh...

73

Steve, K4YZ

You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just
you ...

Carl - wk3c

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article . net, "Bill
Sohl"

writes:

Newsgroup BPL, Carl. If there is an upside to this sad state of
affairs, it is pretty easy to see who all is posting the acrimony and
avoid it.
- Mike KB3EIA -

I much agree...which is why I have stopped the
posting that I used to.

I also agree with Carl's concerns and would "HOPE" that enough
of us can just ignore the obvious dumb, stupid bickering about
individuals and personalities and just try to stay on topic.

Agreed, Bill. I find myself deleting most posts here, adn ignoring certain
regular posters because no matter how civilly they are approached, they
inevitably resort to name calling, false information and insults.

But what do we do about those who post information that is simply not true?

Do you reply to all the spam email that you get that promises you cheap
prescription drugs, some poor schmedlock from Nigeria needs YOU to
participate in some weird scam he's pulling off, or to increase the size
of little willie to gargantuan proportions?

You make an excellent point. I used to read that stuff, but soon got to the
point where I could tell from the subject line and sender that it was spam, and I'd delete it unread.

You probably don't, I know I don't. Point is that 90 percent of the
email I get is worthless spam. I'm not going to control it, and my
option is therefore to opt out of email if I really can't handle it.
This newsgroup has a higher s/n ratio than my personal email.

In my case it's lower - there is more signal and less noise in my personal
email than here. Part of that is due to the high volume of good stuff from the various reflectors, though.

My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many
places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a
number.

Just askin' for it.

Many of the spammers simply use a random group of letters followed by a
semi-random group of numbers, and viola, "you have spam!"

It is chilling to think of how much bandwidth that wastes.

Better than junkmail, though.

If we approach the newsgroup noise as spam, it might make it a little
easier to handle.

Good point. I have been doing that for a while, without really thinking
about it.

Do you think that any of us can modify Len's behavior?

Only Len can do that.

And I think he is quite happy with the way he is!

He appears to be quite pleased with himself. And extremely critical,
insulting and condemnatory of anyone who dares to disagree with him or
prove him wrong about anything.

Or Steve or Brian's?

It's up to them.

Not hardly likely!

Agreed.

I don't even want to. I like 'em all just the way they are.

You like the noise? I don't.

Oh no! But I separate the noise from the person

In some cases if you separate the noise from the person there isn't
much left!

And I agree with Carl that their behavior has helped drive away good people
like W1RFI.

That is too bad, but I liken the situation to stopping driving because
there are wild drivers out on the road.

It's more like this: Stopping driving on certain roads because of the
wild drivers on those roads.

Once I left a group because of problems with certain posters. It was an
amateur telescope making SIG. I was getting personal email nastygrams
from one member on every post I made, and a couple others seemed to
agree with him. So I left the group. A week after that, I found out the
person doing this had passed away. Turns out he was a terminal cancer
case, and was on a LOT of pain killing drugs. I felt pretty awkward for
being so p****d off at him earlier.

His behavior wasn't your doing, Mike.

Point is, maybe some people are less than pleasant, but we aren't
always sure why.

Very true. However, that does not mean we must accept their behavior
as "normal" or "acceptable".

If a person has problems with what they post, they can
avoid reading them. Not a hard thing to do, as aside from Brian changing
his addy to avoid spam, they aren't disguising themselves.

Which is what I do much of the time.

Aside from Len's use of no less than five different screen names he







that's pretty true.

Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere.

No, he doesn't. In fact the reverse is true - most of Len's posts here
do not contain his name or other clear identifier. Of course he posts
here so much that if only 1 in 100 posts is clearly identified, it is
soon clear who is who.

Newsgroup BPL - very descriptive.

I think so.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "Carl R. Stevenson"
Date: 4/5/2004 11:09 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...

The endless bickering and personal attacks that fundamentally have
nothing
to do with amateur radio policy and everything to do with personal
grudges
and vendettas have reached a level where they are almost totally
dominating
the newsgroup on many, if not most, days.

I see.

And you see my "crap" as being solely responsible.

Uh huh...

You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not just
you ...

I don't believe myself to be "twisting" anything, Carl, but I do see your
point, so I stand corrected.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest
From: (N2EY)
Date: 4/5/2004 11:11 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Mike Coslo wrote in message
...

Although I think that he always puts His name in the post somewhere.

No, he doesn't. In fact the reverse is true - most of Len's posts here
do not contain his name or other clear identifier. Of course he posts
here so much that if only 1 in 100 posts is clearly identified, it is
soon clear who is who.

Or he let's his ego override his situational awareness and signs his name
to a post under one of his nomme-de guerre's and let's it slip who he is...

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

So what should folks like you and I do about it?

In particular, when someone posts information that is flat out wrong, should
we
simply ignore it or challenge it?

Your first step is to PROVE your "information" is the "truth" that
cannot ever be "flat out wrong."

Why? You don't do that, Len. Why should others have to meet a standard
that you don't meet yourself?

You must separate your OPINION from so-called irrefutable
"truth."

Why? You don't do that, Len. Why should others have to meet a standard
that you don't meet yourself?

Opinion is opinion, not some universal truth just because
you think it is so.

That's true. Which is why it's important to clearly state when
something is an opinion and when it's a provable or disprovable fact.

After you've done all that, you have to consider that some folks
will still be against you. That is the nature of the computer-modem
beast. That will not change, not even if you think you speak the
most truthful words possible by mortals. Get used to it.

Once adjusted to all those very real environmental conditions, but
you still feel that your god-like words are irrefutable truisms, it is
time to pack it in, quit the newsgroup, and perhaps establish
yourself as a swami of a cult somewhere. That's much better
than to hang in and constantly complaining that some just don't
believe your truths to be self-evident and are so irreverent to
your magnificent words. :-)

You should re-read those statements and act on them, Len.

So here's a challenge for you, Len:

Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no
name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license
classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite
modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions.

And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or
disproves some claim you make here.

Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you
choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7
years or so, I'll just ignore you.

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

|
| You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not
just
| you ...
|
| Carl - wk3c

Carl,

They've dragged you down into their same insult-match.

Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and
the pig enjoys the company.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP ... (was - New Candidate for
'Youngest Extra')
From: (N2EY)
Date: 4/5/2004 11:48 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...

Once adjusted to all those very real environmental conditions, but
you still feel that your god-like words are irrefutable truisms, it is
time to pack it in, quit the newsgroup, and perhaps establish
yourself as a swami of a cult somewhere. That's much better
than to hang in and constantly complaining that some just don't
believe your truths to be self-evident and are so irreverent to
your magnificent words. :-)

You should re-read those statements and act on them, Len.

SURELY you're not going to hold your breath waiting for THAT to happen!

So here's a challenge for you, Len:

Let's see you set the example of "civil debate". That means no
name-calling, no little digs at other people's jobs, names, license
classes, ethnicities or religions, no making fun of their favorite
modes. It also means clear distinctions between facts and opinions.

What...?!?!

That would be akin to forcing a mime to sit on his hands! ! ! ! ! !

And it means behaving that way even if someone disagrees with you, or
disproves some claim you make here.

Now you're REALLY hoping aginst hope!

Go ahead, Len. Show us how it's done. I'll follow if you lead. If you
choose to behave the way you typically have done here for the past 7
years or so, I'll just ignore you.

And I'll follow Jim's lead.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Proposal to rename RRAP
From: "KØHB"
Date: 4/5/2004 11:55 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: .net

They've dragged you down into their same insult-match.

So which are you, Hans? The pig or the company?

73

Steve, K4YZ

N2EY wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

snippage

My big problem is that one of my addys is a .edu, and it has what many
places did at one time (perhaps some still do) my initials followed by a
number.


Just askin' for it.

and they won't let me change it either! 8^(


snippage

In some cases if you separate the noise from the person there isn't
much left!


Okay, now that reminds me of one of my favorite jokes:


Q. What weighs 5 pounds and is obnoxious?

A. A (insert statehood of a person here) after an enema!


snippage



- Mike KB3EIA -

KØHB wrote:
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote

|
| You're twisting again, Steve ... I clearly indicated that it was not
just
| you ...
|
| Carl - wk3c

Carl,

They've dragged you down into their same insult-match.

Never wrestle with a pig. You get covered with mud and pig ****, and
the pig enjoys the company.


Be kind to pigs, Hans.


- mike KB3EIA -