Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(TAFKARJ on a verbal marathon without end) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , Alun
writes:

Then outside the disaster arena, there's all the marathons,
walk-a-thons, bike-a-thons and myriad other public events for which
hams routinely provide communications. Our club supports 4 or 5 of
these per year.

Those are good practice.

By the way, the Los Angeles Marathon was a success on Sunday,
record turn-out, everything run just fine.

What was your finishing time, Len? How were course conditions?

Well, Len? You said "everything run just fine".

Yes. Everything RAN just fine...using the word "ran" (or "run") as in
an adminstrative action or organizing, starting, keeping it going, and
finally take-down.

You are mighty peevish again, perceiving personal insults at the
slightest provocation. Tsk, tsk, tsk...too many endorphins? :-)

My marathon PR (personal record) is 3 hours 57 minutes 37 seconds.

Have you written the Guiness editors yet?

Did you carry along your code key while setting that terrific time?

Work any DX while running your foot race?

What's your marathon PR, Len?

I don't do Public Relations any more, TAFKARJ.

League isn't too swift in that department and can't get good penetration
of the mass media.

Not my problem.

Go file a complaint with the two League presidents.

Consider that Sports CARS are in Road Races...on roads.
Did that once in a sporty '53 Austin Healey two-seater; the
aluminum body was a great ground plane for a short CB
whip 1959 - 1961. Great make-out vehicle. :-)

The L.A. 2004 Marathon was on the STREETS of Los Angeles,
on on any "roads." :-)

Go back to solving the nation's Economic and Social and
Political Problems in this amateur radio policy newsgroup,
TAFKARJ. Your ham license and marathon times and
morsemanship and ivy-fringed degrees are the
"qualifications" for that, are they not? :-)

Smileys aside, Len, did you look at those links provided by Jim yet?
You blew a lot of smoke about radio amateurs not being involved in the
L.A. Marathon but you don't seem to have anything to counter cold fact.
What about your newspaper reading, TV viewing and your "friend". Were
they all just plain wrong?

Dave K8MN

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , Alun
writes:

Everything RAN just fine...using the word "ran" (or "run") as in
an adminstrative action or organizing, starting, keeping it going, and
finally take-down.

How do you know?

The L.A. TIMES reported that, several TV news programs reported
that, and at least one official with the Marathon said so to me.

Is everyone required to wait for the "official" word from the ARRL
on the verdict?!?!?

You are mighty peevish again, perceiving personal insults at the
slightest provocation.

Not me. You're the one shouting and calling names.

I didn't name anyone in the Marathon. :-)

The very first marathons didn't need any ham radio to help them.

Why do you keep implying that marathons MUST have ham
radio help to be successful?

My marathon PR (personal record) is 3 hours 57 minutes 37 seconds.

Have you written the Guiness editors yet?

You sound jealous, Len.

Of what? :-)

You haven't proved anything about ham radio being NECESSARY
to stage and operate any marathon.

What's your marathon PR, Len?

I don't do Public Relations any more,

Good. Your style here indicates you'd be very bad at it.

Tsk, tsk, tsk..."you sound jealous." :-)

Consider that Sports CARS are in Road Races...on roads.

They're not allowed in the LA Marathon.

Never said they were.

Road Races are run by sports cars on roads.

Marathoners run on foot.

TAFKARJ sounds like he is developing Road Rage... :-)


They're called road races, Len.

I KNOW some sports car racing events are called ROAD RACES.

Try not to be too much like the Schoolmaster who was once
assigned to the far Amana Colonies...

As suspected, you were not involved in the LA Marathon in any way except as a
distant spectator.

Do you now need the EXACT distance from my TV set to the
northernmost point on the marathon route?!?!?!

You're getting to be as nuts as the gunnery nurse.

I has WRITTEN IN PUBLIC that I WATCHED the marathon. Are
your eyes shot from all that running exertion that you can't read?

But, you never answered about "carrying a code key" while
running. Do you?

You've never said anything about "working DX" while running
either.

Is RUNNING (on foot) something REQUIRED in amateur radio?

Or are you personally disturbed because no one ackhnowledges
your fleetness of foot and renowned running time?

Go rent a DVD of "The Running Man." Consider that the star
managed to get elected to Governor of a state. Aim high,
TAFKARJ. Governorship is far better than ham radio...you could
win and tell MILLIONS what to do and how to behave!

Now, what in the world has all this fuss and bother you are stirring
to do with AMATEUR RADIO?




Sorry to divert you from all those splended AMATEUR RADIO
subjects like national economy, politics, morality, kosher food.

You keep up the good work and keep on essaying in the newsgroup
every day. Folks are hanging on every word...or is that wanting to
hang you for all those words? :-)

Walk the plonk...

LHA / WMD

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

. Were they all just plain wrong?

No, but you are.

LHA / WMD

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

You can buy an Orion too, Leonard.

I can also by an H2 and pay cash. Don't care to.

You can think of it as a very expensive SWL receiver.

No, I think of it as an updated version of the defunct Kachina.

Poor baby, still miffed because I KNOW how SDRs work
and you don't have a clue?

Ah, but you can do 20 wpm and operate! Wow! Blazing along
at 1/3 the speed of an old, obsolete Model 15 Teletype. Go for
it! :-)

LHA / WMD

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

I am forte-laden, Leonard. One of mine is that I'm a radio amateur.
You aren't.

Right...I'm a professional radio person and have been since 1952.

[didn't you get an oriongasm on the last sit-down in fron of your
orion? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ]

LHA / WMD

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message
...

A local bike race decided to try using cell phones as an experiment last
year. The hams were along, with the knowledge that we might be
"redundant in the future. They found out:

Every person had to be called separately. When a message had to go to
the whole group, everyone had to be called.

Those who were out of coverage range did not get the messages.

Coverage over the entire course was pretty bad.

Using cell phones was an immediate and complete failure. they realized
this on the first call that had to go to everyone.


They couldn't figure all that out ahead of time?

Amazingly enough, no! Cell phones are seductive little things. After
all you can call around the world, send pictures of whatever, and even
look up your email on the web with them. So how on earth can such a
wonderful instrument *not* be good at running a race? Imagine, each and
every participant with their own little radio, ready for direct contact.

Well, there you have it: They did not understand their communications needs.

Any conclusion may be reached with insufficient thought!

Can I steal that phrase? It's the perfect companion to this one:

"If it happens, it must be possible."

Sounds to me like the hams were smart enough to simply let them try it
and see the problems first-hand.

Yup. All of us that had done events before just chuckled and waited.
First call for our help came through a couple minutes after the start.

Fortunate that you folks were there.

Those same problems surfaced in groups searching for wreckage from the
space shuttle disaster last year.

Of course cell phones *do* have uses in those situations. Where one
specific person needs to talk to another specific person, and both are
in the coverage area, they're perfect.

Sure enough. But when many people need to hear instructions at the same

time, or if the area is large and rural, You need a multi-mode system,
and not just line of site low power stuff.

Seems to me that *both* have a role.

Cell phones work for some things, but the idea that they can replace
radio operators is best advanced by those that don't really know how
that particular job is done.

You mean like folks who comment on marathons without ever having been
involved in one other than as a spectator? Or like folks who comment
on amateur radio without ever having been involved other than as a
spectator?

Well, when you put it *that* way, yup!

We call 'em "sidewalk superintendents" or "armchair athletes".

http://www.lamarathon.com/2004/volunteers.php

Some hams and ham equipment spotted in the pix.

Of course.

http://www.doitsports.com/volunteer/info.tcl?job_id=488

(sign up for radio operators - only licensed hams need apply)

Really? I thunk all you needed was a cell phone and the ability to say
"can you hear me now?....how about now? 8^)

That's what some "professionals" would have us believe...

Any conclusion is possible given insufficient......... oh wait, I
already said that, didn't I?

Bears repeating.

http://www.cert-la.com/

(scroll down a bit to where it says "ham radio operators wanted")

Do you think maybe they put that in as an affirmative action sort of
thing? Maybe they just wanted to get the Hams to shut their yap's? ;^)

Naw, it's simpler than that.

Besides their considerable skills and experience, ham volunteers at
events like the LA Marathon provide their own equipment and usually
their own transportation and other support. Try hiring 200
"communications professionals" for a day just to supply radio
communications and see what happens to the race entry fee. (LA says
200 hams, NYC marathon says 400, but of course NYC is a lot bigger
race).

The price for professional radio operators would be from 80 to 160
thousand dollars for an 8 hour day, according to my BOE scribbling.

Marathon day is a lot longer than 8 hours. Figure that the staff is on the
course at least two hours before the starting gun, and that the slowest
particiapnts will finish in more than 5-6 hours, plus awards ceremony, cleanup,
etc., and it's not an 8 hour day for anybody. With 20,000 participants, that's
4 to 8 dollars tacked on to the entry fee.

Which reminds me...time to put the running shoes on..

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

The price for professional radio operators would be from 80 to 160
thousand dollars for an 8 hour day, according to my BOE scribbling.

Marathon day is a lot longer than 8 hours. Figure that the staff is on the
course at least two hours before the starting gun, and that the slowest
particiapnts will finish in more than 5-6 hours, plus awards ceremony,
cleanup,
etc., and it's not an 8 hour day for anybody. With 20,000 participants,
that's
4 to 8 dollars tacked on to the entry fee.

Which reminds me...time to put the running shoes on..

73 de Jim, N2EY

You left out another block of time. For a large event, there needs to be a
planning/coordination meeting in advance of the marathon that the
communications staff would need to attend. Paid operators won't attend that
for free either.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Alun wrote in message . ..
(William) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
. ..
(N2EY) wrote in
om:

Alun wrote in message
.. .
snip

I think access to education is already a problem and likely to get
worse. At the same time it's probably about the only antidote to
offshore production.

Then it should be a major priority, rather than trips to Mars ans
such.

Or foreign adventuring.

True. We could just sit on our fat asses and let the world implode.
Then we'd have lots of dxpeditions cleverly disguised as UN peace
missions with 400,000 qso's per foray.


As opposed to dxpeditions disguised as invasions?

You tell me. The sun never sets on the _______________ Empire.

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Alun
writes:


That's one possibility. Another is bankruptcy and the resulting
defaults on student and other loans.

The problem with that is that I don't think you can write off student loans

through bankruptcy.


I'm not sure if you can or cannot. Anybody know for sure?


Yes and no:

from

http://www.mdbankruptcylaw.com/lawgu...u_cant_pay.asp


Another possible solution is to discharge your student loan in
bankruptcy. However, due to a 1998 change in the bankruptcy law, this is
harder than ever to do. In general, you can discharge a student loan in
bankruptcy only if you can prove that repaying the loan would be a
severe hardship for you. There are several factors that courts consider
in making this determination, but suffice it to say, it's a very
difficult standard to meet.


At one time, many students simply completed their education, and as a
matter of course, declared bankruptcy and wiped out their debts (HA!
America's best and brightest, eh?) After it caught on that they were
doing this, the law was changed.

Guess I wasn't one of the best and brightest - I paid all mine back in full!

So a person that declares bankruptcy has to continue repayment unless
they can prove they simply can't pay. And that isn't all that likely to
happen.

Yup, they'll just renegotiate the loan but it's still there.


So, you may not get graduates going intentionally
bankrupt, but the inability to pay it off may lead more people into
bankruptcy. They may then still owe the loan, but it won't get paid back.


Either way spells trouble.


Makes me think of the "They Might be Giants" Sone "Minimum Wage"


Here's one data point:

In the fall of 1972, when I entered the University of Pennsylvania,
tuition alone (no books, fees, etc.) was $3000/year. Which was very
expensive at the time. Today the same school charges more than 10
times that. But will the starting salary offered to a BSEE in 2006 be
more than 10 times what it was in 1976, when I graduated? Is
fininacial aid 10 times what it was in my time there? Nope.

Add to this the fact that a kid who worked at minimum wage during the
weekends,
summer and holidays could make a sizable dent in that $3000/year
tuition. If a
kid could take home $1.50 an hour, and manage to put in 1000 hours per
year, there's half the tuition. Today, if a kid can take home $5 an
hour and put in the same 1000 hours, the resulting $5000 is only about
1/6 of the tuition.

That's just not right.


No argument there. Back home in the UK they used to give everyone grants.
They were means tested, and of course if your parents were middle income
you would be the poorest student in college.


Still, the effective result was that almost any kid who was smart enough to
get
in could go to college and get a degree. The rich ones paid their way and
the
rest got various forms of help but did not have to start out their
professional
lives way in debt.


However, now they are phasing
out grants and bringing in loans. This is also a big mistake.


Actually, I think loans make sense *IF* they are reasonable and the job
situation is such that they can be paid back in a short period of time.

The loans and their repayment are pretty reasonable.

The big question nobody wants to answer is "why does a year of college cost
so
much?"

You actually do know, don't you?

I'm not sure.

Seems to me that at the bottom of it all is the fact that people will pay the
inflated tuitions because colege is seen as an absolute necessity these days.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message

...


A local bike race decided to try using cell phones as an experiment last
year. The hams were along, with the knowledge that we might be
"redundant in the future. They found out:

Every person had to be called separately. When a message had to go to
the whole group, everyone had to be called.

Those who were out of coverage range did not get the messages.

Coverage over the entire course was pretty bad.

Using cell phones was an immediate and complete failure. they realized
this on the first call that had to go to everyone.


They couldn't figure all that out ahead of time?

Amazingly enough, no! Cell phones are seductive little things. After
all you can call around the world, send pictures of whatever, and even
look up your email on the web with them. So how on earth can such a
wonderful instrument *not* be good at running a race? Imagine, each and
every participant with their own little radio, ready for direct contact.


Well, there you have it: They did not understand their communications needs.

Any conclusion may be reached with insufficient thought!


Can I steal that phrase? It's the perfect companion to this one:

Certainly! I kid of thought you would like that one.

"If it happens, it must be possible."

Sounds to me like the hams were smart enough to simply let them try it
and see the problems first-hand.

Yup. All of us that had done events before just chuckled and waited.
First call for our help came through a couple minutes after the start.


Fortunate that you folks were there.

A young lady that fell and got a pavement rash certainly thought so. We
got there first aid, a repair truck, and back in the race. Year before
that, a fellow had a collision with a rear view mirror on a car and
messed his hand up.

Those same problems surfaced in groups searching for wreckage from the
space shuttle disaster last year.

Of course cell phones *do* have uses in those situations. Where one
specific person needs to talk to another specific person, and both are
in the coverage area, they're perfect.

Sure enough. But when many people need to hear instructions at the same


time, or if the area is large and rural, You need a multi-mode system,
and not just line of site low power stuff.


Seems to me that *both* have a role.

Cell phones work for some things, but the idea that they can replace
radio operators is best advanced by those that don't really know how
that particular job is done.

You mean like folks who comment on marathons without ever having been
involved in one other than as a spectator? Or like folks who comment
on amateur radio without ever having been involved other than as a
spectator?

Well, when you put it *that* way, yup!


We call 'em "sidewalk superintendents" or "armchair athletes".

http://www.lamarathon.com/2004/volunteers.php

Some hams and ham equipment spotted in the pix.



Of course.



http://www.doitsports.com/volunteer/info.tcl?job_id=488


(sign up for radio operators - only licensed hams need apply)

Really? I thunk all you needed was a cell phone and the ability to say
"can you hear me now?....how about now? 8^)



That's what some "professionals" would have us believe...


Any conclusion is possible given insufficient......... oh wait, I
already said that, didn't I?


Bears repeating.

http://www.cert-la.com/

(scroll down a bit to where it says "ham radio operators wanted")

Do you think maybe they put that in as an affirmative action sort of
thing? Maybe they just wanted to get the Hams to shut their yap's? ;^)

Naw, it's simpler than that.

Besides their considerable skills and experience, ham volunteers at
events like the LA Marathon provide their own equipment and usually
their own transportation and other support. Try hiring 200
"communications professionals" for a day just to supply radio
communications and see what happens to the race entry fee. (LA says
200 hams, NYC marathon says 400, but of course NYC is a lot bigger
race).


The price for professional radio operators would be from 80 to 160
thousand dollars for an 8 hour day, according to my BOE scribbling.


Marathon day is a lot longer than 8 hours. Figure that the staff is on the
course at least two hours before the starting gun, and that the slowest
particiapnts will finish in more than 5-6 hours, plus awards ceremony, cleanup,
etc., and it's not an 8 hour day for anybody. With 20,000 participants, that's
4 to 8 dollars tacked on to the entry fee.

Of course. I just used the 8 hours as a real back of the envelope
thing. You can tie up a lot of time between assignment, training and
other meetings. And if you are using professionals they will need paid.

- Mike KB3EIA -

- Mike KB3EIA -



Which reminds me...time to put the running shoes on..

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo writes:


N2EY wrote:

In article , Alun
writes:



That's one possibility. Another is bankruptcy and the resulting
defaults on student and other loans.

The problem with that is that I don't think you can write off student loans

through bankruptcy.


I'm not sure if you can or cannot. Anybody know for sure?


Yes and no:

from

http://www.mdbankruptcylaw.com/lawgu...u_cant_pay.asp


Another possible solution is to discharge your student loan in
bankruptcy. However, due to a 1998 change in the bankruptcy law, this is
harder than ever to do. In general, you can discharge a student loan in
bankruptcy only if you can prove that repaying the loan would be a
severe hardship for you. There are several factors that courts consider
in making this determination, but suffice it to say, it's a very
difficult standard to meet.


At one time, many students simply completed their education, and as a
matter of course, declared bankruptcy and wiped out their debts (HA!
America's best and brightest, eh?) After it caught on that they were
doing this, the law was changed.


Guess I wasn't one of the best and brightest - I paid all mine back in full!

They are definitely the ones that are stupid. That bankruptcy follows
them forever. Seven years is the legal time limit, but face it, it's
forever. Then when they do get some semblance of credit back, they
aren't getting the most favorable rates.

So a person that declares bankruptcy has to continue repayment unless
they can prove they simply can't pay. And that isn't all that likely to
happen.


Yup, they'll just renegotiate the loan but it's still there.

So, you may not get graduates going intentionally
bankrupt, but the inability to pay it off may lead more people into
bankruptcy. They may then still owe the loan, but it won't get paid back.


Either way spells trouble.



Makes me think of the "They Might be Giants" Sone "Minimum Wage"



Here's one data point:

In the fall of 1972, when I entered the University of Pennsylvania,
tuition alone (no books, fees, etc.) was $3000/year. Which was very
expensive at the time. Today the same school charges more than 10
times that. But will the starting salary offered to a BSEE in 2006 be
more than 10 times what it was in 1976, when I graduated? Is
fininacial aid 10 times what it was in my time there? Nope.

Add to this the fact that a kid who worked at minimum wage during the
weekends,
summer and holidays could make a sizable dent in that $3000/year
tuition. If a
kid could take home $1.50 an hour, and manage to put in 1000 hours per
year, there's half the tuition. Today, if a kid can take home $5 an
hour and put in the same 1000 hours, the resulting $5000 is only about
1/6 of the tuition.

That's just not right.


No argument there. Back home in the UK they used to give everyone grants.
They were means tested, and of course if your parents were middle income
you would be the poorest student in college.


Still, the effective result was that almost any kid who was smart enough to
get in could go to college and get a degree. The rich ones paid their way and
the rest got various forms of help but did not have to start out their
professional
lives way in debt.

However, now they are phasing
out grants and bringing in loans. This is also a big mistake.

Actually, I think loans make sense *IF* they are reasonable and the job
situation is such that they can be paid back in a short period of time.

The loans and their repayment are pretty reasonable.


The big question nobody wants to answer is "why does a year of college cost
so much?"

You actually do know, don't you?

I'm not sure.

Colleges build a lot of new buildings these days. They are involved in
a lot of the research that used to be done by Research and Development
divisions of business. Many of them don't get as much support from their
State governments as in years past. All of this adds up to increased
costs that are driving the education cost inflation.


Seems to me that at the bottom of it all is the fact that people will pay the
inflated tuitions because colege is seen as an absolute necessity these days.


For now.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article m, "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Marathon day is a lot longer than 8 hours. Figure that the staff is on the
course at least two hours before the starting gun, and that the slowest
particiapnts will finish in more than 5-6 hours, plus awards ceremony,
cleanup,
etc., and it's not an 8 hour day for anybody. With 20,000 participants,
that's
4 to 8 dollars tacked on to the entry fee.

Which reminds me...time to put the running shoes on..

42 minutes this morning - spring is coming..

You left out another block of time. For a large event, there needs to be a
planning/coordination meeting in advance of the marathon that the
communications staff would need to attend. Paid operators won't attend that
for free either.

That's absolutely correct! And it's probably a series of meetings and
coordination settings, too.

Thanks, Dee.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

Seems to me that at the bottom of it all is the fact that people will pay the
inflated tuitions because colege is seen as an absolute necessity these days.


"Colege?" An MSEE who failed English? :-)

Is a college or university degree necessary for being an radio
amateur?

Is an amateur radio license test equal to a college or university
examination?

Walk the plonk, TAFKARJ...

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...

Ah, but you can do 20 wpm and operate! Wow! Blazing along
at 1/3 the speed of an old, obsolete Model 15 Teletype. Go for
it! :-)

LHA / WMD

Someone musta flipped over his rock.

I don't think so. Mr. Foreign Service Dave just wants attention to
himself so he can order folks around during his misdirectional
postings. He can't come up with any convincing arguments against
morse code test elimination so he loves to bait and misdirect the
NCTA. He wants a Chat Room atmosphere where he can vie
with TAFKARJ for King of the Chat Room.

The PCTA regulars all want to misdirect into Chat Room fights for
ascendency. That way they think they can hurt others by trying
to show they are all expert at NON-amateur radio subjects...and
then hit on others anywhichwaytheycan for speaking against them.

It looks like they want to be the Biggest Rock in a field of pebbles.

LHA / WMD

In article m, "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

You left out another block of time. For a large event, there needs to be a
planning/coordination meeting in advance of the marathon that the
communications staff would need to attend. Paid operators won't attend that
for free either.

Were the very first marathons, especially in the Olympic Games,
run by professionals?

The Los Angeles 2004 Marathon used LAPD and LAFD personnel
who are paid all the time. Do they count in your analysis?

Are marathon rules and regulations in Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R.?

Do marathoners and marathon staff need to learn morse code in
order to make the event a success?

LHA / WMD

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Fortunate that you folks were there.

A young lady that fell and got a pavement rash certainly thought so. We

got there first aid, a repair truck, and back in the race. Year before
that, a fellow had a collision with a rear view mirror on a car and
messed his hand up.

And while maybe it *could* have been done by "professionals", the fact is that
it *was* done by amateurs.

Some folks get all bent out of shape by such plain, simple facts.


Marathon day is a lot longer than 8 hours. Figure that the staff is on the
course at least two hours before the starting gun, and that the slowest
particiapnts will finish in more than 5-6 hours, plus awards ceremony,
cleanup,
etc., and it's not an 8 hour day for anybody. With 20,000 participants,
that's 4 to 8 dollars tacked on to the entry fee.

Of course. I just used the 8 hours as a real back of the envelope
thing. You can tie up a lot of time between assignment, training and
other meetings.

As Dee pointed out.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Nomen Nescio wrote in message . ..

If true, you're a #1 jerk.

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

Seems to me that at the bottom of it all is the fact that people will pay the
inflated tuitions because colege is seen as an absolute necessity these days.


"Colege?" An MSEE who failed English? :-)

Is a college or university degree necessary for being an radio
amateur?

Is an amateur radio license test equal to a college or university
examination?

Walk the plonk, TAFKARJ...

I seem to remember you using terms like "Atila" and "beligerant" and you
used them more than once, indicating not a typographical error but in
inability to spell the words.

You're quite a fellow, Len.

Dave K8MN

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

You can buy an Orion too, Leonard.

I can also by an H2 and pay cash. Don't care to.

A TYPO!!! A TYPO!!!

LENNIE'S MAD! HE'S SEETHING IN RAGE!

Quixoterobeson, you did it again.

Obsessives can't help it... :-)

LHA / WMD

Anonymous wrote in message news:O0FTRUFS38060.5117592593@anonymous...

how's things in colorado, billy, me boy?

Dunno. Haven't been there since about 85.

How are things in la-la land?

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

Seems to me that at the bottom of it all is the fact that people will pay the
inflated tuitions because colege is seen as an absolute necessity these days.


"Colege?" An MSEE who failed English? :-)

Is a college or university degree necessary for being an radio
amateur?

Is an amateur radio license test equal to a college or university
examination?

Walk the plonk, TAFKARJ...

I seem to remember you using terms like "Atila" and "beligerant" and you
used them more than once, indicating not a typographical error but in
inability to spell the words.

You're quite a fellow, Len.

Dave K8MN

in inability

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message

...


A local bike race decided to try using cell phones as an experiment last
year. The hams were along, with the knowledge that we might be
"redundant in the future. They found out:

Every person had to be called separately. When a message had to go to
the whole group, everyone had to be called.

Those who were out of coverage range did not get the messages.

Coverage over the entire course was pretty bad.

Using cell phones was an immediate and complete failure. they realized
this on the first call that had to go to everyone.


They couldn't figure all that out ahead of time?

Amazingly enough, no! Cell phones are seductive little things. After
all you can call around the world, send pictures of whatever, and even
look up your email on the web with them. So how on earth can such a
wonderful instrument *not* be good at running a race? Imagine, each and
every participant with their own little radio, ready for direct contact.


Well, there you have it: They did not understand their communications needs.

And they really don't have to. Problem is that so many people think
that they are "high-tech" when they use a cell phone or surf the web,
when in truth, they don't know one thing about what they are doing. Ask
the average person about how a cell phone works, or how that computer
works, and odds are they will draw a blank.

That's okay, as knowledge isn't mandated, but if they try to put
together a comm support network with the level of knowledge that they
*do* have, they are more likely than not to suffer failure. In other
words, they are reaching a conclusion with insufficient thought. My
thoughts are to learn to do it correctly, or allow someone that *does*
know to do their job.




- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Fortunate that you folks were there.

A young lady that fell and got a pavement rash certainly thought so. We


got there first aid, a repair truck, and back in the race. Year before
that, a fellow had a collision with a rear view mirror on a car and
messed his hand up.


And while maybe it *could* have been done by "professionals", the fact is that
it *was* done by amateurs.

Some folks get all bent out of shape by such plain, simple facts.

Whatever else can be said about hams, in general, they provide
inexpensive and reliable support for public events in which they give
free time to support charities or other nonprofit groups. Not possible
to dispute.

That some people have a problem with that is a bigger statement about
those people than it is about Hams.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...

Ah, but you can do 20 wpm and operate! Wow! Blazing along
at 1/3 the speed of an old, obsolete Model 15 Teletype. Go for
it! :-)

LHA / WMD

Someone musta flipped over his rock.

I don't think so. Mr. Foreign Service Dave just wants attention to
himself so he can order folks around during his misdirectional
postings. He can't come up with any convincing arguments against
morse code test elimination so he loves to bait and misdirect the
NCTA. He wants a Chat Room atmosphere where he can vie
with TAFKARJ for King of the Chat Room.

Mr. Former Service desires attention for himself and his past
involvement in military and civilian radio so he can attempt to impress
mere radio amateurs. As to misdirection, witness the subject of the
L.A. Marathon, introduced by you and your quick change of direction when
confronted by fact.

The PCTA regulars all want to misdirect into Chat Room fights for
ascendency. That way they think they can hurt others by trying
to show they are all expert at NON-amateur radio subjects...and
then hit on others anywhichwaytheycan for speaking against them.

Funny. Are you trying to hurt others by trying to show that you're an
expert IN amateur radio subjects. You seem to hit on others for
speaking against you.

It looks like they want to be the Biggest Rock in a field of pebbles.

When it comes to amateur radio, you have yet to become a pebble.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article m, "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

You left out another block of time. For a large event, there needs to be a
planning/coordination meeting in advance of the marathon that the
communications staff would need to attend. Paid operators won't attend that
for free either.

Were the very first marathons, especially in the Olympic Games,
run by professionals?

The Los Angeles 2004 Marathon used LAPD and LAFD personnel
who are paid all the time. Do they count in your analysis?

Are marathon rules and regulations in Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R.?

Do marathoners and marathon staff need to learn morse code in
order to make the event a success?

Skip the shuck and jive routine, Len. You seem to forget that you told
us that amateur radio wasn't involved in the L.A. Marathon. Fact has
never dissueded you from promoting your view as gospel.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article , Alun
writes:

The very first marathons didn't need any ham radio to help them.

No and the Greeks and Persians didn't use any short range bombers during
their wars.

Why do you keep implying that marathons MUST have ham
radio help to be successful?

I didn't see that implied. Don't waffle, Len. You introduced the topic
of the Los Angeles Marathon and you claimed that amateur radio wasn't
involved. It is a good thing you're typing your responses 'cuz you
surely couldn't talk with that foot in your mouth.


You haven't proved anything about ham radio being NECESSARY
to stage and operate any marathon.

That isn't the issue at all. You said that amateur radio WASN'T
involved in a particular marathon. You were dead wrong.


Road Races are run by sports cars on roads.

On tires.

Marathoners run on foot.

On roads.

Try not to be too much like the Schoolmaster who was once
assigned to the far Amana Colonies...

I'm not a schoolmaster and I've never heard of the Amana Colonies. You
might want to make those the subject of one of your frequent lectures.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

You can buy an Orion too, Leonard.

I can also by an H2 and pay cash. Don't care to.

I wouldn't either. What's an H2.

You can think of it as a very expensive SWL receiver.

No, I think of it as an updated version of the defunct Kachina.

Then you'd think incorrectly.

Poor baby, still miffed because I KNOW how SDRs work
and you don't have a clue?

It hasn't been established that you know anything about them. You
couldn't even get the definition of "firmware" straight.

Ah, but you can do 20 wpm and operate! Wow! Blazing along
at 1/3 the speed of an old, obsolete Model 15 Teletype. Go for
it! :-)

I could slow down and do 20 wpm if I chose to do so. Most modern
computer/HF multi-mode controller TTY users still stick with the 45 baud
speed of the old, obsolete Model 15. If I choose to work RTTY, I'll do
so. If I choose to operate using morse, I'll do so. You do what you
can.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

I am forte-laden, Leonard. One of mine is that I'm a radio amateur.
You aren't.

Right...I'm a professional radio person and have been since 1952.

Super. It hasn't helped you enter amateur radio, has it?

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:


You can buy an Orion too, Leonard.

I can also by an H2 and pay cash. Don't care to.


I wouldn't either. What's an H2.

The second Generation of the HumVee. I guess that means he has money. I
don't blame him for not wanting to but the H2.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

I wouldn't either. What's an H2.

The second Generation of the HumVee. I guess that means he has money. I

don't blame him for not wanting to but the H2.

H2 = "Nomenclature" of the civilian equivalent of the military "HumVee,"
the ultimate SUV. :-) Good for off-road travel as-is, can make a
wonderful military-style mobile rig for ham "service" afficionados. Just
paint it flat olive or desert cammy color and install a huge manual code
key, plus a big "Official Ham Emergency Vehicle" sign on the side
right next to a copy of the mysterious sideways chevron used on all
military vehicles for visual ID.

Bye on the H2, thank you. :-)

Poor lad doesn't know where the Amana Colonies are. Those are in Iowa,
actually a collection of small towns settled by largely German immigrants
in the 1800s. Mostly a tourist enclave, they do have some delicious
midwest eating at many restaurants there...most restaurants having true
"all you can eat" menus with second+ helpings on entrees if you want.
See any AAA Guidebook. If you don't like midwest cooking, just go to
one of several smokehouses there and sample the many sausages.
Good desert wines, too.

Amana ranges are made in the central city (Amana, Iowa). Amana
microwave ovens are assembled in Mexico according to the lables on
our kitchen appliances installed in 2000. Amana bought the "radarange"
trademark and microwave range technology from Raytheon many years
ago.

Okay, now back to poor Mr. Foreign Service snarling and spewing
against those who won't bow and kiss his ring. :-)

LHA / WMD

Mike Coslo wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:


You can buy an Orion too, Leonard.

I can also by an H2 and pay cash. Don't care to.


I wouldn't either. What's an H2.

The second Generation of the HumVee. I guess that means he has money. I
don't blame him for not wanting to but the H2.

He'd certainly get more use from the Hummer than he would an amateur
radio transceiver.

Dave K8MN