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#1
May 9th 04, 01:06 PM
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Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Alun wrote: (N2EY) wrote in om: Alun wrote in message ... The ITU requirement for a code test was dropped on July 5th, 2003, so evidently a majority around the world agree with you. A majority of the world's governments that bothered to attend and vote on the issue. And all they did was change the rules so each country can decide for itself what is required - just like the written test. Although a suggested standard for written tests was added at the same WRC, it's really more of a suggestion than anything else. Countries can have wide-ranging interpretations of what's "needed". For example, do you think ol' JY1 and his family had to sit for written and code exams that were equivalent to what US or UK hams had to pass for the same privileges? Or do you think the US writtens compare with, say, those in the UK? If I'm not mistaken, getting a license in some countries *requires* successful completion of an approved training course. (I know the "Foundation" license has this requirement). Doesn't matter if someone is a Ph.D. in EE, they have to attend and pass the ham radio classes to get the license - even though such courses are not part of any treaty and not required in many other countries. Actually, they only have to do the practical assesments, it's not necessary to attend the course. "Practical Assesmants" - as in tests? What, exactly, is required? Imagine the reaction here in the USA if the code test were dropped *and* getting a license required attendance at an approved ham radio training course. Not a "one day wonder" course such as was recently the subject of an article on the ARRL website ("Is Your License Class Efficient" or some such title), but rather a multisession course with quizzes and a final test that were not from a published pool. Point is, just because it's not in the treaty anymore doesn't mean all countries will or should drop it. Another point is that requirements vary from country to country, even with CEPT and S25.5 I think the FCC will drop it, but they move at a snail's pace. They're busy with other things. And perhaps they don't see what all the fuss is about. After all, we're talking about a 5 wpm code test that can be passed in a number of ways, with all sorts of adaptations and accomodations (tone, volume, headphones, typewriter, flashing light, Farnsworth, etc.) Add to this the fact that today there are training aids undreamed of in the past - most of them free or quite inexpensive. I doubt if they even think about any of that Why? Those accomodations and adaptations are all part of the rules. In fact, a lot is left to the VE's judgement. For example, a *sending* test can be substituted for the receiving test if the VEs think it is justified. I didn't think it would survive for as long as a year after it was no longer needed, but it's only nine months so far, so I could still be right. I think you meant 'no longer required by treaty'. Whether something is needed as a license requirement is purely a matter of opinion. I meant both, since I agree with the FCC that it was only needed because of the treaty It's been ten months and two days since WRC-2003 ended, and given FCC's method of handling the issue it may well be another ten months before we even get to the NPRM stage. That may be, although I still think it will be earlier than that. How do we stand with the pool, BTW? I just did an update. Google up the thread - WK3C wanted to change his date! Most of all, note that the 2000 restructuring did not result in lots of new hams, even though the requirements for all classes of license were lowered and the whole structure simplified. 73 de Jim, N2EY I think abolishing the code test will remove a block in the system, but won't have much effect unless we actively do something to recruit new hams. I don't really see much of that happening right now. What would you suggest? Here's what one ham is doing - and has been doing for years. I don't know this ham personally, but he is right here in EPA. Note the results and the reactions he gets. The following is a direct quote: BEGIN QUOTE I have had the privilege of teaching an after school activity, at the local middle school, for five years. I named it Tune in the World, and it covers many aspects of radio and television, and of course, pushes ham radio. Each year I have had several students, both boys and girls, obtain their license and try to help them continue on the hobby. With this as my basis, I can tell you that 95% of the students were a pleasure to work with and each year the district offers me a nice salary to teach the class and each year I decline it. Yes, it is a lot of work, but the students enjoy it and come away with a very positive idea of ham radio. The attention span varies, but I have found that I have to work at making sure I have an interesting program and that no part of it goes on and on and on. I set the rules at the first meeting and have not had any serious problems. (My son and his friends have been my biggest problem.) If one expects the students to sit in their chairs and listen to a presentation for an hour, after being in school all day, they good luck. I combine power point presentations, live demonstrations, parts of ARRL videos short movies, simple building projects and computers. Interestingly, the students are always VERY interested in the Morse code and seem less so in modes connected with the computer. I am not a STRONG disciplinarian, but we have rules and the kids obey them and something must be going right, a few kids who were in the previous class always take the next year's class and we always have 35 to 40 students. In fact, my biggest problem is that other students want to join the class after it has been on a few weeks. Last year at the last minute, I offer the Radio Merit Badge at Boy Scout Camp. I was given a terrible time and hoped for six kids. I had over 1/4 of the camp at the classes and more wanted to attend. We got a dozen hams out of that one. So, if we want to get new, young hams, then think about reaching out to the Middle Schools, and Scout Camps. Just the camp alone, with eight weeks of camp, would produce between 80 and 100 new hams....with about 400 Scout Camps in the USA, (Cub and Boy Scout) that would mean a very nice increase in our membership. I do agree, that like every previous generation, the new hams need help in getting into the hobby and if nothing else, get their email address and send them info as well as forwarding the address to the ARRL, and local clubs. We can sit here and complain about the lack of young people in our hobby, or we can do something, or expect someone else to do it. Ahhh, it is easier to complain...right? END QUOTE Note particularly when he writes: "the students are always VERY interested in the Morse code and seem less so in modes connected with the computer." A block to the license process? I guess the question is "What are YOU doing to recruit more hams", Alun? The torch is being passed, and it is being passed to those that "won" the code/no code debate. Exactly. I'm pretty new as a Ham, I try to recruit whenever possible, and will welcome new hams regardless of their education. Some people might feel otherwise at this point, having the wind knocked out of their sails, so to speak. My policy has always been that if they have the license, they're a ham. You guys won. You have the ball now. Using the NCI's polled membership as an example, you now want to make all Technicians Generals, and advanced, Extra's. A drastic reduction in entrance requirements seems to be the rationale du jour for the brave new Amateur Radio Service. Exactly! And who can really argue against it? Remember the question "why does someone have to learn code to operate voice"? Well, if you accept that argument, then what do you say when someone says "Why does it take a Technician license to operate legal limit SSB on 2 meters but a General to do the same thing on most of 20 meters?" and "Since the Technician written allows maximum authorized power on all authorized modes allocated to hams above 30 MHz,why is more theory testing needed to do the same thing below 30 MHz?" Etc. Really it's your ball and your game now. Godspeed! Don't hold yer breath, Mike. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#3
May 9th 04, 02:45 PM
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Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun Date: 5/9/2004 8:12 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: I applied to be a counselor for the radio merit badge in boy scouts a couple of months ago, but haven't heard anything back yet. The troop leader is more interested in finding someone for the computer badge. From what I read in the papaers, it's getting harder and harder for the Scouts to find leaders who want to be leaders and not molesters.... PS: The requirement for a CW QSO has been dropped from the badge, which makes it more practical for me to do it! Examiners have always had it at thier discretion to send random letters and check for character count. In the long run, I bet more folks have passed the test because it WAS a "QSO" since they could go back and fill in missing letters....ITS N T T AT ARD TO FI L IN THE BL NKS ON E YOU BACK U AN LOOK AT W T YOU WR TE DO N. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
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#4
May 9th 04, 03:06 PM
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(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
: Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all? From: Alun Date: 5/9/2004 8:12 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: I applied to be a counselor for the radio merit badge in boy scouts a couple of months ago, but haven't heard anything back yet. The troop leader is more interested in finding someone for the computer badge. From what I read in the papaers, it's getting harder and harder for the Scouts to find leaders who want to be leaders and not molesters.... PS: The requirement for a CW QSO has been dropped from the badge, which makes it more practical for me to do it! Examiners have always had it at thier discretion to send random letters and check for character count. In the long run, I bet more folks have passed the test because it WAS a "QSO" since they could go back and fill in missing letters....ITS N T T AT ARD TO FI L IN THE BL NKS ON E YOU BACK U AN LOOK AT W T YOU WR TE DO N. 73 Steve, K4YZ I think maybe you are a bit confused, so I guess I need to explain a little more. The radio merit badge used to require the boys to participate in 2 CW QSOs and 1 phone QSO. Now that requirement is just for 1 QSO in any mode. Some phone ops used to teach the badge and do CW QSOs by computer, which had the added advantage that the boys could see what was being said, whilst others used to get a CW op to participate (the counselor tests the boys, but anyone can provide the instruction/demos). The QSO requirement is only one from a long list, and can be satisfied by boys with a ham licence if they submit 5 QSL cards from 3 call districts. The boys who are not hams (obviously the vast majority) just have to sit in on a QSO instead. One of the other requirements is to draw a frequency chart, and there are very specific rules about what it has to show. The funny thing is, the example in the book doesn't comply. It was done by the ARRL, but I don't think it was created specially for the purpose. I think it was just something that already existed that they let the boy scouts use. One of the questions I am contemplating is whether I should give credit for copying it, or whether they should have to do it properly? 73 de Alun, N3KIP |
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#5
May 9th 04, 03:12 PM
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Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all?
From: Alun Date: 5/9/2004 9:06 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: I think maybe you are a bit confused, so I guess I need to explain a little more. The radio merit badge used to require the boys to participate in 2 CW QSOs and 1 phone QSO. Now that requirement is just for 1 QSO in any mode. Some phone ops used to teach the badge and do CW QSOs by computer, which had the added advantage that the boys could see what was being said, whilst others used to get a CW op to participate (the counselor tests the boys, but anyone can provide the instruction/demos). Ahhhhhhh....I see...You were speaking of the REAL "Merit Badges"....! Yes, you were correct, of course...I stand corrected. The QSO requirement is only one from a long list, and can be satisfied by boys with a ham licence if they submit 5 QSL cards from 3 call districts. The boys who are not hams (obviously the vast majority) just have to sit in on a QSO instead. One of the other requirements is to draw a frequency chart, and there are very specific rules about what it has to show. The funny thing is, the example in the book doesn't comply. It was done by the ARRL, but I don't think it was created specially for the purpose. I think it was just something that already existed that they let the boy scouts use. One of the questions I am contemplating is whether I should give credit for copying it, or whether they should have to do it properly? The FCC has a real nice chart available from GPO and is all inclusive from a few KHz up to, I beleive, 300GHz. It might go higher. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
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#6
May 9th 04, 03:15 PM
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(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in
: Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all? From: Alun Date: 5/9/2004 9:06 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: I think maybe you are a bit confused, so I guess I need to explain a little more. The radio merit badge used to require the boys to participate in 2 CW QSOs and 1 phone QSO. Now that requirement is just for 1 QSO in any mode. Some phone ops used to teach the badge and do CW QSOs by computer, which had the added advantage that the boys could see what was being said, whilst others used to get a CW op to participate (the counselor tests the boys, but anyone can provide the instruction/demos). Ahhhhhhh....I see...You were speaking of the REAL "Merit Badges"....! Yes, you were correct, of course...I stand corrected. The QSO requirement is only one from a long list, and can be satisfied by boys with a ham licence if they submit 5 QSL cards from 3 call districts. The boys who are not hams (obviously the vast majority) just have to sit in on a QSO instead. One of the other requirements is to draw a frequency chart, and there are very specific rules about what it has to show. The funny thing is, the example in the book doesn't comply. It was done by the ARRL, but I don't think it was created specially for the purpose. I think it was just something that already existed that they let the boy scouts use. One of the questions I am contemplating is whether I should give credit for copying it, or whether they should have to do it properly? The FCC has a real nice chart available from GPO and is all inclusive from a few KHz up to, I beleive, 300GHz. It might go higher. 73 Steve, K4YZ That's a good point. I understand that Icom has one you can download, although I don't know if it meets the requirements. I'm sure the FCC chart meets all possible requirements, though. |
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#7
May 9th 04, 06:16 PM
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Alun wrote in message . ..
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in : The FCC has a real nice chart available from GPO and is all inclusive from a few KHz up to, I beleive, 300GHz. It might go higher. 73 Steve, K4YZ That's a good point. I understand that Icom has one you can download, although I don't know if it meets the requirements. I'm sure the FCC chart meets all possible requirements, though. I wonder if it shows the MARS frequencies separate from the Amateur frequencies? After all, " "MARS IS "Amateur Radio". " |
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#8
May 9th 04, 05:29 PM
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"Alun" wrote in message ... (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in : Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all? From: Alun Date: 5/9/2004 8:12 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: I applied to be a counselor for the radio merit badge in boy scouts a couple of months ago, but haven't heard anything back yet. The troop leader is more interested in finding someone for the computer badge. From what I read in the papaers, it's getting harder and harder for the Scouts to find leaders who want to be leaders and not molesters.... PS: The requirement for a CW QSO has been dropped from the badge, which makes it more practical for me to do it! Examiners have always had it at thier discretion to send random letters and check for character count. In the long run, I bet more folks have passed the test because it WAS a "QSO" since they could go back and fill in missing letters....ITS N T T AT ARD TO FI L IN THE BL NKS ON E YOU BACK U AN LOOK AT W T YOU WR TE DO N. 73 Steve, K4YZ I think maybe you are a bit confused, so I guess I need to explain a little more. The radio merit badge used to require the boys to participate in 2 CW QSOs and 1 phone QSO. Now that requirement is just for 1 QSO in any mode. Some phone ops used to teach the badge and do CW QSOs by computer, which had the added advantage that the boys could see what was being said, whilst others used to get a CW op to participate (the counselor tests the boys, but anyone can provide the instruction/demos). The QSO requirement is only one from a long list, and can be satisfied by boys with a ham licence if they submit 5 QSL cards from 3 call districts. The boys who are not hams (obviously the vast majority) just have to sit in on a QSO instead. One of the other requirements is to draw a frequency chart, and there are very specific rules about what it has to show. The funny thing is, the example in the book doesn't comply. It was done by the ARRL, but I don't think it was created specially for the purpose. I think it was just something that already existed that they let the boy scouts use. One of the questions I am contemplating is whether I should give credit for copying it, or whether they should have to do it properly? 73 de Alun, N3KIP I'd say make them do the chart by the rules of the merit badge. There's very little to be learned just by copying a pre-existing chart. Of course they should be allowed to use the ARRL one (and others) as an information resource. In the real world of work, one frequently has to reformat information to meet customer formatting requirements. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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#9
May 9th 04, 06:19 PM
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"Dee D. Flint" wrote in
: "Alun" wrote in message ... (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in : Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all? From: Alun Date: 5/9/2004 8:12 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: I applied to be a counselor for the radio merit badge in boy scouts a couple of months ago, but haven't heard anything back yet. The troop leader is more interested in finding someone for the computer badge. From what I read in the papaers, it's getting harder and harder for the Scouts to find leaders who want to be leaders and not molesters.... PS: The requirement for a CW QSO has been dropped from the badge, which makes it more practical for me to do it! Examiners have always had it at thier discretion to send random letters and check for character count. In the long run, I bet more folks have passed the test because it WAS a "QSO" since they could go back and fill in missing letters....ITS N T T AT ARD TO FI L IN THE BL NKS ON E YOU BACK U AN LOOK AT W T YOU WR TE DO N. 73 Steve, K4YZ I think maybe you are a bit confused, so I guess I need to explain a little more. The radio merit badge used to require the boys to participate in 2 CW QSOs and 1 phone QSO. Now that requirement is just for 1 QSO in any mode. Some phone ops used to teach the badge and do CW QSOs by computer, which had the added advantage that the boys could see what was being said, whilst others used to get a CW op to participate (the counselor tests the boys, but anyone can provide the instruction/demos). The QSO requirement is only one from a long list, and can be satisfied by boys with a ham licence if they submit 5 QSL cards from 3 call districts. The boys who are not hams (obviously the vast majority) just have to sit in on a QSO instead. One of the other requirements is to draw a frequency chart, and there are very specific rules about what it has to show. The funny thing is, the example in the book doesn't comply. It was done by the ARRL, but I don't think it was created specially for the purpose. I think it was just something that already existed that they let the boy scouts use. One of the questions I am contemplating is whether I should give credit for copying it, or whether they should have to do it properly? 73 de Alun, N3KIP I'd say make them do the chart by the rules of the merit badge. There's very little to be learned just by copying a pre-existing chart. Of course they should be allowed to use the ARRL one (and others) as an information resource. In the real world of work, one frequently has to reformat information to meet customer formatting requirements. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE That's pretty much what I was thinking. I just wanted to see if others would agree. The league's chart in the scout merit badge book covers a slightly wrong frequency range, and it doesn't really show the required 8 services. At least, it sort of does, but it mixes some services together while separating some users that are part of the same service. I was wondering if I was being too pedantic, but I tend to think that maybe it is best to ignore that chart and show them one that is more correct. I imagine the FCC chart is super correct There again, were the scouts really meaning to imply the proper definition of a 'service' in their requirements? Maybe they had something vaguer in mind? |
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#10
May 10th 04, 03:21 AM
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Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: Let's debate: Should Amateur Radio be made a free for all? From: Alun Date: 5/9/2004 8:12 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: I applied to be a counselor for the radio merit badge in boy scouts a couple of months ago, but haven't heard anything back yet. The troop leader is more interested in finding someone for the computer badge. From what I read in the papaers, it's getting harder and harder for the Scouts to find leaders who want to be leaders and not molesters.... It's an unfortunate situation. I've worked with kids before, and have gone through the pertinent background checks. In most respects, it's no big deal. It is getting harder to find people that will voluntarily go through such things anymore though. Think of it. You could be a perfectly normal person, but one dumb clerical error could not only keep you from coaching your kid or being a merit badge counselor, but ruin your entire life! Its not likely to happen, but..... It's harder to get people to help period! - Mike KB3EIA - |
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