"garigue" wrote


Yepper the bum society rears its head again ...... over 400k words in
the
English language, or so I 've heard, and the universal sentence
enhancer is
always to be found .... pity ...


Tom,

I think it's just become fashionable to be a self-righteous bitcher
against "Them"!

Here in reality computing has advanced light years in just a couple of
decades. My first computer (a Heath H89) had an amazing 48KB of RAM
which I upgraded all the way to 64K for the princely sum of $129, dual
boot (HDOS or CPM), a single floppy drive, no hard drive, no CD drive,
no DVC drive and an upgrade to a 12" amber screen (none of those
primitive green CRT's for me!). Processor (Zilog Z80) speed was
measured in KHz. Total price for the whole thing was just under $2,500.
Software was scarce and expensive, and web crawlers, usenet, and email
were Buck Rogers stuff. Not available to me at home, but
forward-looking companies were willing to pay $2,500/mo for 9.6KHz DDS
connectivity!

My current 'hobby' computer came with a measly 512MB of RAM which I
upgraded to 1GB for $92. It still has only one floppy drive, but 120GB
hard drive, a DVD (r/w) drive, a CD (r/w) drive. Processor speed is
2.5GHz, I have fulltime broadband connectivity to the world-wide-web for
under $50/mo, and more choices of reasonably priced software than I can
count. All thanks to those assholes at Microsoft and Intel. Ain't it
just awful?

73, de Hans, K0HB

Dan wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:25:36 GMT, "Jim Hampton"
wrote:


If everyone changed to Linux, you can bet the virus and worm writers would
be writing most of the stuff for Unix systems.


Indeed. This whole notion of "everyone should switch so all of these
problems go away" is naieve at best, plain stupid at worst.

1. Who said that?

2. Can you let us know specifically what the Linux flaws are, and how
they compare numerically and in severity with the integrated systems in
the Microsoft applications?

Their integration with the OS is one of those concepts that sound good,
but unless you have incredibly competent software writing, will be a
constant source of security problems.



It's like looking at stats for fuel usage of passenger cars and
trucks, noting that cars make up most of the usage of gas, and trucks
use a small percentage, then saying "Gee, we should all start driving
trucks to save gas"!

But aren't you doing the same thing by telling us that Linux and other
systems have as many flaws as the Microsoft systems?

Hell-o!


Yo, wassup?


- mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Last, but most to the point of your post, everyone should be checking
daily
(whether automatically or manually) for updates to their operating system
and browser...

..... and herein lies another problem: Microsoft
won't keep any of the old updates available. I had to reload
Windows 98 (you can KEEP XP) and now I find
that almost none of the older "security upgrades" are available.
Or at least, I can't find them. Not only that, but this stupid OS
is probably telling the database I still have the upgrades
when I don't. This seriously sucks. Or I may just not know
how to go about it. That's certainly possible.

Jim Hampton wrote:
Hello, Dan

True enough, but the fact is that the problem is the screwball folks that
get their jollies writing the darn things in the first place.

There is that. We just have to quit making their dirty work so easy.



Yes, I.E. is a major problem - mostly because it is popular and your
comparison with cars and trucks makes sense.

If IE was a car, you would have to put new lug nuts on it every day
because the wheels would fall off otherwise. No one would put up with a
vehicle built like PC's are run.


Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm having fits getting my dial-up to work
properly and still have the DSL.

Hey, I just spent around 30 hours cumulative time working on a laptop
computer to get a logging program that the writers insisted would work
to work on it. First it said that the .ocx files for the program weren't
registered. I went in to manually register them, and one would register
but the other wouldn't. So I upgraded the OS, then found out my bios was
behind and needed upgraded then I got a VFAT error, and the machine
wouldn't respond to anything. In the meantime I'm troubleshooting all
the error messages, and being led down blind alleys and getting nowhere.
Applying all kinds of updates and "security" patches. Finally, I could
get the computer to boot up in safe mode, and verified that the software
would run. But the video wouldn't work correctly then. Oops, the VFAT
problem comes back.

So I gave up and recovered the original OS on the laptop, and used my
home desktop for Field day. Now I have a video problem with the home
computer that showed up probably from operating it in the great
out-of-doors. My opinion of PC's is oddly poor right now

I love my G5 dual processor. My Macs have never ever given me problems
like what PC users seem to take for granted as part of the territory.
Upgrades, software installation, it's all good.

A big part of my job is to whip PC's into submission, so I think I can
give an informed opinion between the two systems.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Dan" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:25:36 GMT, "Jim Hampton"
wrote:


If everyone changed to Linux, you can bet the virus and worm writers

would

be writing most of the stuff for Unix systems.

Indeed. This whole notion of "everyone should switch so all of these
problems go away" is naieve at best, plain stupid at worst.

It's like looking at stats for fuel usage of passenger cars and
trucks, noting that cars make up most of the usage of gas, and trucks
use a small percentage, then saying "Gee, we should all start driving
trucks to save gas"!

Hell-o!

Dan

Grundig S800, S650, S700, YB400, YB550PE
Degen DE1102, Kaito KA1102
Drake R8, Radio Shack DX-440
E. H. Scott 23 tube Imperial Allwave in Tasman cabinet (1936)



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/28/04

Dan wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 04:28:59 GMT, "Jim Hampton"
wrote:


Hello, Dan

True enough, but the fact is that the problem is the screwball folks that
get their jollies writing the darn things in the first place.

Yes, I.E. is a major problem - mostly because it is popular and your
comparison with cars and trucks makes sense.


The people who get off on seeing their "handiwork" in the news would
certainly switch to Linux or OS X or whatever we all "switch" to. If
the numbers were there, these systems would already have this crap.

So you are stating that Linux has the same number of security flaws as
the triumvirate of IE/Outlook/and whatever Windows OS?

Might want to check that out.


Windows/IE/OE gets the viruses because Windows/IE/OE has the users.
It's that simple.

No it isn't.


Yet, I don't get *any* of this crap on my Windows systems, and I have
several. It's all down to common sense. I don't post here with my
real name and email address (check my headers!), I keep my systems
up-to-date, and I have a good firewall running. I get scanned,
pinged, poked and probed all the time, but nothing gets thru.


You don't get spam or viruses? Not even the scattershot address stuff?
You should be giving computer security seminars! 8^)

- mike KB3EIA -

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 11:15:05 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:


Demand competently written software!


I do, I use Linux. Good luck getting it from Microsuck.

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:38:34 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:


If the manufacturers produce software that has gaping security flaws,
it is their fault, not mine.


Mike, it's your fault for CONTINUING TO USE IT.

If you've bought 2 Monkeytime wrenches and the handles both snapped and
broke will you go out and buy ANOTHER Monkeytime wrench????

Get it?

Fred Garvin wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:38:34 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:



If the manufacturers produce software that has gaping security flaws,
it is their fault, not mine.



Mike, it's your fault for CONTINUING TO USE IT.

If you've bought 2 Monkeytime wrenches and the handles both snapped and
broke will you go out and buy ANOTHER Monkeytime wrench????


I got taken out of context there, Fred. I was responding to the blame
the victim comments. I do use Microsoft's OS's from XP to Win95 (Yet!)
Mostly because it's part of my job. But I don't use the triumvirate. I
only use the OS. If you are using IE and Outlook in addition to the OS,
then you're asking for trouble.

Tom,

I think it's just become fashionable to be a self-righteous bitcher
against "Them"!

Hans .... yes you are right ...it's easy to bitch at the fellows who for
what ever reason made things the way they are. If all the other systems
were that good then by golly we all would have them and their inherent
faults. I think it is base envy of those that brought what ever to the
unwashed masses that gets some upset and made a whole bunch of money in the
mean time. I was hooked when ever I saw those old "kits" back in the 60's
but couldn't afford the freight. The first computer I ever had a hand in
working with was a Burroghs (sp?) in 1965 which was used by the Port
Vue-Liberty school district for payroll. We managed to get to use the unit
with the guidence of the "special math" instructor. It used pins in sets of
3 per step in a program ...K-1-1 et al. and the problem was that the darn
exponent had "floated" and had to be reset within the program lest all was
lost. The Commodore units of the early 80's provided my impetus. Again
look what 2K $ got you then ... and now ...all at the expense of those
"greedy" risk takers.

Take care ...Tom Popovic KI3R Belle Vernon Pa

garigue wrote:

Tom,

I think it's just become fashionable to be a self-righteous bitcher
against "Them"!


Hans .... yes you are right ...it's easy to bitch at the fellows who for
what ever reason made things the way they are. If all the other systems
were that good then by golly we all would have them and their inherent
faults.

Not really Tom. My experience in computers has been that whatever gets
adopted as a "standard" is related to the golden rule. He who has the
gold makes the rules - and the standards.

- Mike KB3EIA -