Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:


What?! how can this be? First is interpretation. Regardless of the
reasons that some may have for a different answer, there has to be a
reference somewhere. And the nice thing about the question pool is that
you can see the answer that is wanted. Then the person taking the test
can decide whether they want to put in the desired answer, purposely
put in an answer that will be marked wrong, or argue with the test giver.

So NOT having a open question pool is going to cause trouble.


No "interpretation" is allowed in here, Mike.

Public disclosure of the amateur radio question pool (with answers)
has been deemed, variously, "dumbing down," "cheating," and
(probably) "unpatriotic." It is an evil that must be eradicated. :-)

See, they are doing it the wrong way. this should be done like some
college professors do - which is to write a book, then make that book
the subject of their classes. So if you take the class, you have to buy
the book!

Then again, I wonder if giving the name of a reference book would be
cheating?

Maybe take the prospective ham out in the woods, miles from nowhere for
a year or two, so they can't look things up or read about the test. then
on test day, put 'em in the test room and let 'em have a go at it.

THEN, those that pass will truly *know* the material. 8^)

All things on the amateur test must be kept the way it was for the
olde fartes...closed book, prim, proper, very very formal. The rest of
their life depends on the test outcome. It's the most important thing
in their lives and MUST be treated that way!

Might be fun to conjecture on your try at a real discussion. It would
meet with the usual hate-spew of certain creatures in here, though,
and quickly evaporate into the bit-bucket.

I've taken a few tests, both open-book and closed-book, neither of
which conditions bother me. The biggest "test" I've ever taken is
the continuing "test" of working for a living in electronics design.
Some of the time that work couldn't be either open- or closed-book;
no book existed to yield the "proper answers." :-)

Even open book tests work. I've taken them not knowing anything about a
subject, but after the test I do.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Question Pool vs Book Larnin'
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 7/19/2004 12:52 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

I've taken a few tests, both open-book and closed-book, neither of
which conditions bother me. The biggest "test" I've ever taken is
the continuing "test" of working for a living in electronics design.
Some of the time that work couldn't be either open- or closed-book;
no book existed to yield the "proper answers." :-)

Even open book tests work. I've taken them not knowing anything about a

subject, but after the test I do.

But at least with a test where the questions are not known in advance,
even in an "open book" test, the person being tested (a) still has to already
know enough about the subject to know WHERE to look, and (b) is going to
assimilate some of the material in the research phase of looking through the
book.

I used open book testing when teaching Avionics in the USMC with great
effectiveness. Not only did the students have a very high aggregate test
score, but it reinforced thier skills in using the maintenance manuals.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


What?! how can this be? First is interpretation. Regardless of the
reasons that some may have for a different answer, there has to be a
reference somewhere. And the nice thing about the question pool is that
you can see the answer that is wanted. Then the person taking the test
can decide whether they want to put in the desired answer, purposely
put in an answer that will be marked wrong, or argue with the test giver.

So NOT having a open question pool is going to cause trouble.


No "interpretation" is allowed in here, Mike.

Public disclosure of the amateur radio question pool (with answers)
has been deemed, variously, "dumbing down," "cheating," and
(probably) "unpatriotic." It is an evil that must be eradicated. :-)

See, they are doing it the wrong way. this should be done like some
college professors do - which is to write a book, then make that book
the subject of their classes. So if you take the class, you have to buy
the book!

Absolutely. The "official" books are all published by the ARRL! :-)

Then again, I wonder if giving the name of a reference book would be
cheating?

Absolutely. There is only ONE reference: ARRL Handbook. :-)

Mike, in this forum, you can't ask discussion questions of the
normal sort. [it would be nice except for all the yell-yells in here]

However the modern U.S. amateur radio testing is done (or the U.S.
commercial operator license testing), if it wasn't by the old system
prior to question pools, the yell-yell answer is "it IS cheating." :-)

Maybe take the prospective ham out in the woods, miles from nowhere for

a year or two, so they can't look things up or read about the test. then
on test day, put 'em in the test room and let 'em have a go at it.

THEN, those that pass will truly *know* the material. 8^)

That's the standard military survival school training kind of thing.

I really doubt there is any sort of "need" for that kind of exaggerated
proof of performance. Amateur radio is, by and large, just a hobby.

All things on the amateur test must be kept the way it was for the
olde fartes...closed book, prim, proper, very very formal. The rest of
their life depends on the test outcome. It's the most important thing
in their lives and MUST be treated that way!

Might be fun to conjecture on your try at a real discussion. It would
meet with the usual hate-spew of certain creatures in here, though,
and quickly evaporate into the bit-bucket.

I've taken a few tests, both open-book and closed-book, neither of
which conditions bother me. The biggest "test" I've ever taken is
the continuing "test" of working for a living in electronics design.
Some of the time that work couldn't be either open- or closed-book;
no book existed to yield the "proper answers." :-)

Even open book tests work. I've taken them not knowing anything about a

subject, but after the test I do.

ALL learning begins with memorization. Few understand that.

Memorization skills are necessary to retain knowledge in order to
apply it later.

To venture into an analogy on licensing, taking a behind-the-wheel
driving test for nearly any state driver's license doesn't allow any
open-book answering. Inspector gets rather perturbed if one looks
in a book while driving. :-)