William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,
PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:
In article , Dave Heil

writes:
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

All that's needed is for
him to obtain a valid amateur radio license, and an amateur radio station.

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Jim, that is a pervasive theme in RRAP, the "requirement" of having an
amateur radio license to discuss things -radio- related.

One of your continuing problems is that of telling the difference
between what you think has been written and what has actually been
written.
Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup. It is an "amateur
radio-related" newsgroup. Len discusses and discusses. Mostly, his
windbag routine consists of insulting radio amateurs and the ARRL.
Sometimes he includes personal historical data having nothing to do with
amateur radio. Very little of what he posts has a thing to do with any
current or past amateur radio policy matter.

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must support
it. You've been awfully silent on the matter of Scott Pederson. It
could be said that you must support him.

So you're either for it or agin it. Support Kelly, Heil, and Robeson?

....or he couldn't care less.

Time to get off of the fence.

I'd strongly suggest that you do so--especially if you're sitting on top
of one of the posts.

Dave K8MN

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/5/2004 9:57 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/5/2004 5:04 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/4/2004 12:26 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Keep talking snarly at all those non-ham people who have actually
had an entire career in radio-electronics involved in the
contstantly-
changing state of the electronics and radio arts...and succeeded.

"Talking snarly"? I didn't note any snarly at all. You may well have
succeeded in the career goals you set for yourself. Dandy. That
really
has nothing to do with amateur radio.

Lennie's "success" in "professional radio" was getting by on the
works
of others and not gettting sued for it.

Sounds like libel.

Only if it's not true.

Are you certain it's true?

I am more certain of the honesty and reliability of the person from who I
obtained this information than I am of Lennie or you.

I have word that his "performance" was less than
expected on at least one assignment.

State the assignment. State who's word.

When Lennie was in Warminster, PA...And the "who" is my secret.

Whatever's left of your reputation is at stake.

What's left of MY reputation will still be standing long after you have
been laid to rest, Brain.

Oh, nevermind. You're a habitual liar.

I am sure you wished it was true.

We'll discuss it at next Dayton...See you there, Brain!

More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

I am gald you agree.

Wherever did you get that idea?

Why, through your SILENCE, Brain! You requoted the statement and didn't
comment on it. By your own "Rules of Engagement", failure to comment on
something means you condone it by virtue of that silence. You've expressed
those very sentiments in another thread within the last 12 hours.

Again, you provide us with yet another example of not being able to keep
your OWN stories straight, Brain.

I hold my agreement in abayence. Exactly what are you gualled about?

I think you meant "gaulled".

We could start with your complete lack of character, your DOCUMENTED
pattern of lying and deceit, and we can wrap it up with your complete failure
to validate even ONE example of your self-proclaimed "superior operator"
status.

And that's just what we know of you from THIS forum. I shudder to think
what any deeper investigation might reveal.

Steve, K4YZ

My spam filtering blocked this until Dave's reply....

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,
PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:
In article , Dave Heil

writes:
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article
,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

All that's needed is for
him to obtain a valid amateur radio license, and an amateur radio
station.

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Jim, that is a pervasive theme in RRAP, the "requirement" of having an
amateur radio license to discuss things -radio- related.

Where, when and how did *I* say that "all MUST have a ham license to discuss
anything in here?"

If it seems to some to be a "pervasive theme", that's due to the fact that Len
writes it over and over....

As I've said many times before, *anyone* with internet/usenet access can post
here. Credibility is a different issue - it has to be earned.

One of your continuing problems is that of telling the difference
between what you think has been written and what has actually been
written.

"William" does seem to have that problem.

Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup. It is an "amateur
radio-related" newsgroup.

True.

Len discusses and discusses.

Very true!


Mostly, his
windbag routine consists of insulting radio amateurs and the ARRL.

One caveat: That behavior is reserved for those who disagree with him, or point
out errors in his statements.

There's a one-paragraph profile of Len's behavior floating around...

Sometimes he includes personal historical data having nothing to do with
amateur radio. Very little of what he posts has a thing to do with any
current or past amateur radio policy matter.

True and true again.

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic.

Where, when and how did *I* say that "all MUST have a ham license to discuss
anything in here?"

If it seems to some to be a "pervasive theme", that's due to the fact that Len
writes it over and over....

As I've said many times before, *anyone* with internet/usenet access can post
here. Credibility is a different issue - it has to be earned.

If you support it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP.

Not true! Faulty logic.

Schindler.

What significance does that name have to amateur radio policy?

Do you seek to flatter me by comparing me to one of the most heroic figures in
human history?

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must support
it. You've been awfully silent on the matter of Scott Pederson. It
could be said that you must support him.

So you're either for it or agin it.

It's not a binary issue.

Support Kelly, Heil, and Robeson?

On some things, yes. On others, no. Independent thought on my part.

...or he couldn't care less.

Time to get off of the fence.

Is that an order? Or a demand?

I'd strongly suggest that you do so--especially if you're sitting on top
of one of the posts.

By his own logic, "William" must support Len's behavior here.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

There are prototype board shops

...
They advertise all over the electronics trade publications and on the
Web. "It just ain't the same as real hombrewing." . .

Yeah, I know, but depending on yer timeframe, space, tools and tolerance
for
smells and such it may be cheaper/easier/quicker to farm it out.

Time and tools I have, the space is a question though. I was raised in
a machine shop, worked in refineries, chemical plants, textile mills
and had a darkroom. Odors are no biggie.

I didn't mean just *you*.

Agreed and trying to use SMT devices to homebrew compact complex
equipment really drives a stake in it.

There are those who can do SMT, of course. But the stuff requires yet
another level of tooling and skills.

Kills it for me.

SMT was designed to be easy to *manufacture* not repair or experiment with.

In the ancient times, you mounted the parts on a wooden base, then wired
it
up. Build a rig in an evening.

ME built a rig on a wooden base? You jest. Never in this world . . !
Aluminum or steel or forget it.

I've done it...

Point is, it was quick, inexpensive, easy and forgiving of errors

And when it's done it looks just like what it is, a POS.

Yep - Perfectly Ordered System.

Then came metal chassis and panels. Do the metal layout, the metal work,
mount
the parts, wire it up. Build a rig in a bunch of evenings.

SOP.

Yup but a lot more work than a piece o' wood

I'm willing.

Me too. Plus if you need shielding the wooden approach is out.

Given typical basement resources, I'll have my mechanical dial built and
calibrated before the other guy has his PC boards done.

Probably but it depends on whether yer talking Collins quality or
rubber-band quality mechanicals.

I figured that one out about 35 years ago:

WW2 surplus had lots of good parts. Among the very best are the integral
dial/reduction drives/capacitors found in ARC-5 rx and tx units, and the
LM/BC-221 freqmeters. All you need are adapters for the shaft and a new
dial.

Swords into plowshares. I never bothered with Millen and National drives
for
serious stuff.

Then you missed the boat.

No, I didn't.

As you know I'm more than just a tad
familiar with those old surplus drives. They were designed *seven
decades* ago for use in high altitude high vibration combat
environments.

Which makes them perfect for ham rigs.

Usually on fixed freqs. None of which has anything to do
with ham gear particularly today's ham gear. They're miserably slow
tuning *kluges* by any realistic measure.

I *like* slow tuning. How fast did you set the dial on the '847 for FD? 5 kHz
per turn?

Lookit all the "modern" HF rigs - they typically default to a tuning rate of
5-10 kHz/turn. I was doing that in my homebrew rigs 35 years ago.

The best Millen and National could do was a weenie 10:1. Miller came up with
that goofy 6:1/36:1 planetary that cost the earth and felt like mush.

A good BC-221, ARC-5 or LM cap will do the job better and for a lot less money
and grief. Real gear drive, low torque, nice dial, etc.

Was the S-line a "kluge"? Tuning rate was 20 kHz/turn, IIRC, and took the ham
bands in 200 kHz chunks. Covering 80/40/20/15 took 10 bandswitch positions and
10 xtals. Plus going across certain points on the same band (say, 3590 to 3610
or 7195 to 7205) took a bandswitch move and running the dial almost end to end.

I'll take my surplus, thank you very much.

I could build a complete DC
rcvr in the space one of those clunkers sucks up and it would have a
nice smooth tuning mechanism.

Be my guest. You can put it on a website, just like you-know-who hasn't.

Which is why you got the last of those I
had. I am not going to be the Last Dinosaur, that's your yob.

Oddly enough, ARC-5 prices keep going up but BC-221/LM prices are down.

OBTW - check out the prices on new rotary optical encoders of decent quality,
if you're thinking about a synthesized design.

Remember that you'll probably need one with a lot of slots/steps on the encoder
disk. For example, if you want to have a tuning rate of 10 kHz turn and want
the steps to be 100 Hz, you need a 100 slot/step-per-rev encoder. If you want
faster tuning rate without sacrificing resolution, you need *more* slots/steps.

How many junker BC-221s can I buy for the price of one good encoder?

The Type 7 uses a cap from a hangar-queen BC-221. 100:1 nobacklash
drive,
thermally compensated, extremely rugged cast frame, etc. Better than almost
anything in typical ham gear. Cost maybe $5 for the whole chassis, which
has
lots other good parts.

To get more dial spread, I made a dial drum from a piece of 6" plexiglass
tubing. Recycled, of course. Dial light/reflector assembly is inside the
drum
and shines through the plexiglass. You view the lighted dial through a
window
in the front panel.

To calibrate, I wound a piece of paper on the drum and marked it with the
aid
of my working BC-221. Then the raw paper was redrawn via CADD, the result
inkjet printed on a scrap of Mylar drawing stock, and the whole thing put
on
the dial drum. Works and I can read it in any light, with or without
glasses.

Steam locomotives and gas lamps still work too. I'm waiting for you to
announce that you're driving back and forth to the job in a 1937 Model
72 Terraplane.

What kind of light bulbs do most people use? Good ol' incandescents,
fundamentally the same as Tom Edison had more than 125 years ago. Biggest
changes were the use of inert gas rather than vacuum in the bulb, and tungsten
filaments. Both circa 1900.

Internal combustion engines, home construction, lots of others.

Sure he did. He had a cb set, for one.

Seems like he also had some green dot / yellow dot sorts of reddios in
addition to the CB rig. 100% Rat Shack and Moxon plug & play. Whatta
"homebrewer" . . .

You see what some folks pulled with those licenseless HTs down in Orange
County, FL?

Nope.

Coupla kids stole school HTs (dunno if they were green dot or yellow dot or
FRS/GMRS) and then said they were gonna blow up the school, shoot teachers,
etc. Both were over Len's 14 years of age limit. Both are in really deep stuff.

Sure, transmitting radios don't need licenses or training in proper use....

Yeah, I guess we had to have somebody "over there" reading the
repeater meters and locked in mortal combat with all those kamikaze
geishas in the joints in Tokyo. While I worked my way thru E school
back here on the home front. On my own dime.

Been there, done that - halfway, anyhow. One big reason I went to Penn was
the
nice Benjamin Franklin scholarship they gave me. Covered more than half of
the
cost per year. Also NDSL loans and a near-full-time job year 'round.

I took a different path and not only paid the full tab as I went along
via the job, I also had a nice wad in the bank and two years worth of
engineering experience at the end of my trek. No summers off though.

Me neither - summer and "breaks" were the time to pile on as many hours as
possible. No OT but even straight time was worth it.

Junior year was a trip - 5 engineering courses and working 35-39
hours/week.

That's ugly.

No car, either. Thank you SEPTA....

PRR MU-54s: 14 minutes flat from Aldan to 30th St.

but...but...they're OLD technology!

I run a LISP
rountine in Autocad to come up with the cross-sectional properties

Nice! But I prefer Microstation...

Lemmee know when you get yer home installation of Microstation to spit
out the plane and torsional moments of inertia of a tower section.

I can get that result in about 120 seconds.....

Here we go, I'm gonna hold yer feet to the fire on this one Micollis.
I'm gonna show up at your place with a .dxf of a random cross-section
on a CD and you find **all** of it's cross-sectional properties within
120 seconds or you pop for my Newtown Square Ale House wet roast beef
sammich.

All I do is email the problem to you and wait for the results. Then
Microstation does a format conversion....

You SLIME!

Serious spankage, huh?

I didn't say I could solve the problem, just that I could get the results!

I'll buy the RB without a bet.

. . . you got that right . . !

What's the beverage of choice with those sammiches?

73 de Jim, N2EY

......still missing the old Drexel Ale House in the Bond Shopping Center.......

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/6/2004 10:55 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

My spam filtering blocked this until Dave's reply....

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Mostly, his
windbag routine consists of insulting radio amateurs and the ARRL.

One caveat: That behavior is reserved for those who disagree with him, or
point
out errors in his statements.

Which is, unfortunately for him, just about anyone with a week's worth of
practical experience in Amateur Radio that KNOWS BETTER.

I'd strongly suggest that you do so--especially if you're sitting on top
of one of the posts.

By his own logic, "William" must support Len's behavior here.

I prefer to think of it as sinking to the lowest irrational denominator.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,
PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:
In article , Dave Heil

writes:
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

All that's needed is for
him to obtain a valid amateur radio license, and an amateur radio station.

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Jim, that is a pervasive theme in RRAP, the "requirement" of having an
amateur radio license to discuss things -radio- related.

One of your continuing problems is that of telling the difference
between what you think has been written and what has actually been
written.

David, one of your continuing problems is that you assume that all of
the RRAP rules are written. Some rules born out my your actions, not
necessarily carved in stone with a flood light illuminating it.

Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup.

But it is.

It is an "amateur
radio-related" newsgroup.

Please try to keep up. Notice the second "R" in RRAP? Amateur radio
is radio related.

Len discusses and discusses.

David decides and decrees.

"One of your problems is..."

"This has not been written..."

"This is not a radio related..."

Mostly, his
windbag routine consists of insulting radio amateurs and the ARRL.
Sometimes he includes personal historical data having nothing to do with
amateur radio. Very little of what he posts has a thing to do with any
current or past amateur radio policy matter.

Like "shooting bears?" I didn't see you complaining about that.

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must support
it.

I don't believe that it has been a topic of discussion.

Are you making it one?

You've been awfully silent on the matter of Scott Pederson. It
could be said that you must support him.

I don't believe that Scott Pederson has been a topic of discussion.

Are you making him one?

So you're either for it or agin it. Support Kelly, Heil, and Robeson?

...or he couldn't care less.

You get vociferous if Len does something, yet strangely silent if
Kelly or Robeson does something Quitesimilar.

Time to get off of the fence.

I'd strongly suggest that you do so--especially if you're sitting on top
of one of the posts.

The only thing I've been on the fence over was the renewal of my ARRL
membership when the ARRL was recommending a license structure that I
couldn't support. That was years ago.

I've been very clear on other topics.

Dave K8MN

Are you now making fenceposts the topic of discussion?

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,
PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:
In article , Dave Heil

writes:
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

All that's needed is for
him to obtain a valid amateur radio license, and an amateur radio station.

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Jim, that is a pervasive theme in RRAP, the "requirement" of having an
amateur radio license to discuss things -radio- related.

One of your continuing problems is that of telling the difference
between what you think has been written and what has actually been
written.

David, one of your continuing problems is that you assume that all of
the RRAP rules are written. Some rules born out my your actions, not
necessarily carved in stone with a flood light illuminating it.

I'm really having trouble deciphering "born out my your actions".
Did you perhaps mean "Some rules borne out by your actions"?
Was there supposed to be a verb in there somewhere? I made no comments
concerning "the RRAP rules", written or otherwise.

Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup.

But it is.

No, it isn't. Read statement below:

It is an "amateur
radio-related" newsgroup.

Please try to keep up. Notice the second "R" in RRAP? Amateur radio
is radio related.

This is not a general interest radio newsgroup.

Len discusses and discusses.

David decides and decrees.

"One of your problems is..."

....and an illustration was provided.

"This has not been written..."

....is not a quote from me.

"This is not a radio related..."

Actually, this one should have been "This is not a 'radio-related'..."
and it isn't. This newsgroup concerns amateur radio policy, not
broadcast radio policy, Citizens Band radio policy, GMS radio policy or
general radio policy. You can try making this into a "Sorry, Hans.
Mars is" argument but I'm not buying it.

Mostly, his
windbag routine consists of insulting radio amateurs and the ARRL.
Sometimes he includes personal historical data having nothing to do with
amateur radio. Very little of what he posts has a thing to do with any
current or past amateur radio policy matter.

Like "shooting bears?" I didn't see you complaining about that.

Actually, that was in response to one of Windy's tales of Soviet Bears,
"Willie".

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must support
it.

I don't believe that it has been a topic of discussion.

See, you've been silent on it. You must condone it.

Are you making it one?

I can, if you like.

You've been awfully silent on the matter of Scott Pederson. It
could be said that you must support him.

I don't believe that Scott Pederson has been a topic of discussion.

By your silence on the matter, you must support him, according to your
rules.

Are you making him one?

I can, if you like.

So you're either for it or agin it. Support Kelly, Heil, and Robeson?

...or he couldn't care less.

You get vociferous if Len does something, yet strangely silent if
Kelly or Robeson does something Quitesimilar.

It is up to Jim whether he cares to comment on a post or not. It is up
to me whether I choose to comment on a post or not. If it bothers you,
do try and get over it.

Time to get off of the fence.

I'd strongly suggest that you do so--especially if you're sitting on top
of one of the posts.

The only thing I've been on the fence over was the renewal of my ARRL
membership when the ARRL was recommending a license structure that I
couldn't support. That was years ago.

I've been very clear on other topics.

....or so you seem to believe.

Are you now making fenceposts the topic of discussion?

Check it out, "William". You brought up fences.

Dave K8MN

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/6/2004 8:42 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

Sounds like libel.

Only if it's not true.

Are you certain it's true?

I am more certain of the honesty and reliability of the person from who
I
obtained this information than I am of Lennie or you.

You evade the question.

Are you certain that it's true?

I evaded nothing.

I stated that I trust my source more than I trust ANYthing you or Lennie
say.

I know the man from face-to-face meetings.

He retired after 30+ years at the facility in question. Lennie was there
less than three years and was never, to my knowledge, permitted to retun on ANY
contract.

He's a member of numerous community service organizations and is the only
person I have ever known to NOT run for re-election for a community office, yet
still get re-elected in write-ins.

Oh, nevermind. You're a habitual liar.

I am sure you wished it was true.

Actually, I wished it were not true.

Well you're in luck, because it's not. See...I "made your day" by making
one of your wishes come true~!

We'll discuss it at next Dayton...See you there, Brain!

Stay away from me.

Afraid of having to look someone in the eyes and THEN tell your tales,
Brain?

Whether or not I'm at Dayton will be a mystery to you.

No it won't.

More a successful con-man than
"professional in radio"

I am gald you agree.

Wherever did you get that idea?

Why, through your SILENCE, Brain!

No "SILENCE." I said "sounds like libel."

Uh uh uhhhhhhhhh!

Brain trying to wiggle out again! BAD Brain! BAD ! ! !

You requoted the statement and didn't
comment on it.

Must I hang on your every word?

Well here you go again, Brain!

YOU have directly accused numerous other posters for NOT commenting on the
word, actions or comments of others, thereby allegedly "condoning" said
conduct. You've made THAT assertion several times within the last 30 days.

Now you've been caught re-quoting stuff that substantiated what I
said, yet now that "rule" doesn't apply!

So now do you suppose everyone ELSE must hang on YOUR every word, Brain?
Or are they "condoning" something just because they choose to skip over posts
you make?

What would be the point? Most of them are lies.

None of them are lies. And in any case, Brain, "most" implies a
significant majority.

You are challenged to answer each and every one of my posts and PROVE that
the content of more than 50% of them are mistruthful, deceitful, or in error.

Remember...YOUR silence is condoning whatever I say should you NOT respond
to even ONE post on that topic!

By your own "Rules of Engagement", failure to comment on
something means you condone it by virtue of that silence. You've expressed
those very sentiments in another thread within the last 12 hours.

But where is the rule written?

Again, you provide us with yet another example of not being able to
keep
your OWN stories straight, Brain.

The story is yours. I said it looked libelous.

Oh...I SEE!

YOU can quote, re-quote, and re-re-quote ONE SENTENCE that I made, OUT OF
THE CONTEXT of the whole post that it was made in, yet when its turned on you,
suddenly you want different rules applies, written or unwritten.

I hold my agreement in abayence. Exactly what are you gualled about?

I think you meant "gaulled".

Sorry. I thought you meant "gald.".

Well...there you go trying to think again.

We could start with your complete lack of character, your DOCUMENTED
pattern of lying and deceit, and we can wrap it up with your complete
failure
to validate even ONE example of your self-proclaimed "superior operator"
status.

Strange. The very same thing is said about you.

Oh?

By whom?

Lennie? Vipul? YOU...?!?!

I, on the other hand, AM in the logbooks of several RRAP'ers (mixed
modes), and am on the ARRL's DXCC (also mixed modes). Certainly no "superior
operator", but then (a) I never made so stupid an assertion, (b) at least
there is third party corroboration of what I have said and/or done, and (c)
K4YZ has appeared in the various Amateur related publications on occassion in
contest result columns, public service events, and as a group pariticpant in
various club activites since I acquired the call in 97. You may refer to any
of my previous callsigns before that.

Unless you can point out an example to the contrary, I've never seen YOUR
call (ANY of your calls) in ANY publication other than one of the callsign
servers.

And that's just what we know of you from THIS forum. I shudder to
think
what any deeper investigation might reveal.

You own several Yahoo groups...(SNIP)

Yes, I do.

"CAP_Communications" has 136 members. The topic should be self
explanatory as to it's purpose and application.

"ER-Nurses" has over 400, many in Western Europe, the United Kigdom,
Australia and New Zealand, in addition to the Canadian and US members. There
was one in Uruguay, however I think she moved back to Toronto.

"CitizenSoldiers" has over 50. It's a forum for veterans, members of
the Auxiliaries, and/or any of the lawful state defense forces.

You (and anyone else here) are welcome to join any of them if you have
some interest in any of them. The archives of each are open, BTW, and you're
free to browse.

....(UNSNIP)...and have been kicked off of at least one.

John K's group...THAT really hurt! Owie...Ooooie....

Now...what does my "ownership" of several discussion groups have to do
with YOUR patterns of lying and deceit...?!?! Still trying to figure out how
your "PuppetBoy" brain figured that they were somehow germane to the discussion
about your online conduct.

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/6/2004 10:46 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

William wrote:

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must support
it.

I don't believe that it has been a topic of discussion.

See, you've been silent on it. You must condone it.

Are you making it one?

I can, if you like.

Brain was probably one of those folks who sat around mumbling "Why doesn't
Anita Bryant keep here mouth shut...?!?!"

And now that he's hooked up with Lennie the Lame, I am sure the whole
thing hits just a lil bit closer to home!

The only thing I've been on the fence over was the renewal of my ARRL
membership when the ARRL was recommending a license structure that I
couldn't support. That was years ago.

I've been very clear on other topics.

...or so you seem to believe.

For sure...

Goofball can't remember what he wrote just 2 days prior, so it's of no
small wonder at some of the things he must "believe"...For example he beleives
that some butter bar LT can give him permission to operate Amateur Radio from
within the jurisdiciton of another country.

He also believes that "unlicensed devices play a major role in emergency
communicaitons" I am still waiting one some kinda validation of that.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
...

Actually, this one should have been "This is not a 'radio-related'..."
and it isn't. This newsgroup concerns amateur radio policy, not
broadcast radio policy, Citizens Band radio policy, GMS radio policy or
general radio policy. You can try making this into a "Sorry, Hans.
Mars is" argument but I'm not buying it.


Ummmm, Dave? Seems you've not only bought the argument, but you're pretty
much leading it. Of course, after all your tirades about me, seems the only
thing I've seen from you since I started reviewing the group again, is,
arguments. And, ya can't blame it on me, because I haven't been here.

Class? PAH!!!!

Kim W5TIT

Kim wrote:

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
...

Actually, this one should have been "This is not a 'radio-related'..."
and it isn't. This newsgroup concerns amateur radio policy, not
broadcast radio policy, Citizens Band radio policy, GMS radio policy or
general radio policy. You can try making this into a "Sorry, Hans.
Mars is" argument but I'm not buying it.


Ummmm, Dave? Seems you've not only bought the argument, but you're pretty
much leading it. Of course, after all your tirades about me, seems the only
thing I've seen from you since I started reviewing the group again, is,
arguments. And, ya can't blame it on me, because I haven't been here.

Kim, do you find any disagreement with my statement or did you just stop
by for a friendly "hello"?

Class? PAH!!!!

I haven't blamed anything on you. I've given no thought to you at all.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

William wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message
...
William wrote:

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,
PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:
In article , Dave Heil

writes:
Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article
,

(Brian Kelly) writes:
(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article
,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

All that's needed is for
him to obtain a valid amateur radio license, and an amateur radio
station.

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Jim, that is a pervasive theme in RRAP, the "requirement" of having an
amateur radio license to discuss things -radio- related.

Where did I say that anyone had to have an amateur radio license to discuss
things (radio-related or not) on rrap?

One of your continuing problems is that of telling the difference
between what you think has been written and what has actually been
written.

David, one of your continuing problems is that you assume that all of
the RRAP rules are written. Some rules born out my your actions, not
necessarily carved in stone with a flood light illuminating it.

I'm really having trouble deciphering "born out my your actions".
Did you perhaps mean "Some rules borne out by your actions"?
Was there supposed to be a verb in there somewhere? I made no comments
concerning "the RRAP rules", written or otherwise.

Len discusses and discusses.

David decides and decrees.

"One of your problems is..."

...and an illustration was provided.

Anyone who posts an opinion here "decides and decrees", just like Dave.
Lenover21 and "william" do it more than anyone else.

"This has not been written..."

...is not a quote from me.

"This is not a radio related..."

Actually, this one should have been "This is not a 'radio-related'..."
and it isn't. This newsgroup concerns amateur radio policy, not
broadcast radio policy, Citizens Band radio policy, GMS radio policy or
general radio policy. You can try making this into a "Sorry, Hans.
Mars is" argument but I'm not buying it.

Mostly, his
windbag routine consists of insulting radio amateurs and the ARRL.
Sometimes he includes personal historical data having nothing to do with
amateur radio. Very little of what he posts has a thing to do with any
current or past amateur radio policy matter.

Like "shooting bears?" I didn't see you complaining about that.

Actually, that was in response to one of Windy's tales of Soviet Bears,
"Willie".

I recall Len underestimating the distance from where he was stationed to the
USSR and North Korea. The difference was more than 25%. He also mentioned how
long it would take one of those aircraft designated 'Bear' to reach where he
was - neglecting to mention that none were in service until after he had left
the area.

Meanwhile, he disputes and denies W3RV's experiences with the US Navy.

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

I'm still wondering what is meant by the word "Schindler" as it is used above.

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must support
it.

I don't believe that it has been a topic of discussion.

See, you've been silent on it. You must condone it.

Are you making it one?

I can, if you like.

You've been awfully silent on the matter of Scott Pederson. It
could be said that you must support him.

I don't believe that Scott Pederson has been a topic of discussion.

By your silence on the matter, you must support him, according to your
rules.

Are you making him one?

I can, if you like.

So you're either for it or agin it. Support Kelly, Heil, and Robeson?

...or he couldn't care less.

You get vociferous if Len does something, yet strangely silent if
Kelly or Robeson does something Quitesimilar.

Who started it?

It is up to Jim whether he cares to comment on a post or not.

True. It is also dependent on whether I actually read a posting. I don't read
every post, and of the ones I do read, I don't always read all the way through.
This method has made rrap much more enjoyabel for me, and saves lots of time
and energy.

It is up
to me whether I choose to comment on a post or not. If it bothers you,
do try and get over it.

Time to get off of the fence.

I'd strongly suggest that you do so--especially if you're sitting on top
of one of the posts.

The only thing I've been on the fence over was the renewal of my ARRL
membership when the ARRL was recommending a license structure that I
couldn't support. That was years ago.

I've been very clear on other topics.

...or so you seem to believe.

Are you now making fenceposts the topic of discussion?

Check it out, "William". You brought up fences.

Discuss all you want...

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/7/2004 3:34 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/6/2004 10:46 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

William wrote:

If you missed it, then you must must be necrotic. If you support
it,
then you do so by your silence, as you do so many other topics on
RRAP. Schindler.

I note your silence on gay marriage. By your silence, you must
support
it.

I don't believe that it has been a topic of discussion.

See, you've been silent on it. You must condone it.

Are you making it one?

I can, if you like.

Brain was probably one of those folks who sat around mumbling "Why
doesn't
Anita Bryant keep here mouth shut...?!?!"

Why would I? I loved her orange juice song.

And now that he's hooked up with Lennie the Lame, I am sure the whole
thing hits just a lil bit closer to home!

Wait a minute. Are you back on the homosexual inuendo stuff?

There's no "innuendo", Brain.

You engage in one pattern of conduct when Lennie's not "around" for any
period of time.

When he "returns", your conduct changes to that of someone trying to
please him, as if a lover trying to satisfy thier mate.

It superceeds the "male bonding" framework.

The only thing I've been on the fence over was the renewal of my ARRL
membership when the ARRL was recommending a license structure that I
couldn't support. That was years ago.

I've been very clear on other topics.

...or so you seem to believe.

For sure...

Goofball can't remember what he wrote just 2 days prior, so it's of no
small wonder at some of the things he must "believe"...For example he
beleives
that some butter bar LT can give him permission to operate Amateur Radio
from
within the jurisdiciton of another country.

And so you prove yourself a liar again.

Hardly.

I DID prove that you had "forgotten" what YOU had stated only a couple
days previously. That's archived in YOUR post.

You have also stated in past correspondence that your commander gave you
"permission" to operate Amateur Radio from Somalia. If it was something othr
than a butter bar, I stand corrected, however you DID state it, Brain.

If it was other than an LT, I am in error, NOT lying.

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

Why are you so focussed on all MUST have a ham license to
discuss anything in here?

Where did I say that?

Lennie's typo notwithstanding, you didn't.

I didn't think so....

Just one of Lennie's SOP's (Situationally Obnoxious Posting). Keeps
reciting the same unfounded, baseless rant over and over again.

Perhaps he *feels* that he's been told he can't post here without a license.
However, his enormous volume of output belies that feeling...

What Lennie HAS been told is that perhaps if he got an Amateur Radio
license and PARTICIPATED in Amateur Radio, he would actually understand it
and be able to discuss it from an INFORMED position.

Perhaps. But not likely to ever happen.

Anyone can discuss here. I have seen no postings where somebody has told
Len to
"shut up", even though he has told others to "shut the hell up".

It's that "anger" thing he keeps accusing me and others of. "Shut the
hell up" is a very angry, antagonistic way of trying to brow-beat another.

Perhaps it was intended to incite a similar response from K8MN...

Credibility is another issue.

Again...perhasp if he could actually discuss matters from an informed,
experienced positon...As it stands, he has zero-point-zero minutes of
practical Amateur Radio experience.

Perhaps.

The most pertinent question is:

Why is Len so interested in the requirements for a ham license, since:

A) He obviously doesn't want a license
B) He isn't involved in manufacturing equipment or other products for hams
C) He's not really involved in amateur radio in any way other than verbose
newsgroup postings and FCC comments.

So why is he so interested? It's as if I, a non-golfer, made a crusade out of
getting the greens fees for nonmembers at Pebble Beach reduced...

You've discussed. You just have no experience in amateur radio, no
stake in amateur radio and no credibility in amateur radio. You needn't
have an amateur radio license at all. Does that clear things up for you?

I don't think Len understands.

How can he?

He and Brain have thier respective heads up each others backsides so far
that neither can see a thing, and what they can hear is muffled and
distorted.

Why so nasty, Steve?

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

Ahhhhhh! But he CAN report to us on the VHF navaids from LAX! Oh joy!

Some people are into that...

Of course any of us with more than a month or two's experience in
Amateur
Radio can attest to the fact that respectable signals can be radiated from
and received by antennas that no one can see.

Well, almost no one...

Having once resided in SoCal antenna controlled neighborhoods myself I
can
attest to the fact that a wire around the eaves and fed by a decent roller
tuner and worked against a good ground can work pretty well.

Not the issue, really.

To each his own. But from descriptions and mapquest, it appears that Len's
choice was a particularly poor one for HF radio operations.

My Cincinnati home was
somewhat motivated by a desire for a good radio location. My present
home was selected in large part by a desire for a great radio location
with few neighbors. In addition, I have dark skies, a view to die for
and quiet which city and suburban dwellers don't even notice they don't
have.

Some of us notice.

Last vacuum tube receiver I DESIGNED and built was in 1964-1965.

Did you do that at work or as a "hobby" project?

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

HF. Wasn't for listening to on-off keyed radiotelegraphy! [horrors!]

Description? Pictures? Performance?

None.

Just like his Padawamn Learner's T5 logs.

Then why get in a tizzy over it?

Terrible thing! NOT A LICENSED AMATEUR DESIGNING AND
BUILDING AN HF RADIO! Call out the radio police!

And how many HF receivers have you designed and built as a "hobby" in the
intervening ~40 years?

None. Last time he dared to venture a discussion on any kind of direct
participation in radio as a hobby, he had a(n) (alleged) ricebox lineup
including an ICOM R-70.

Well, there you have it.

When I asked Len for help in designing an HF station, all he could offer was
to
point me to the Digi-Key catalog. That explained a lot, actually, because it
told me that Len doesn't really know how to do home design and construction
of
radios. Nor how to be creative in the use of available components rather
than
just what's in the catalogs.

That's not a put-down, just a fact. While Len talks a lot of theory, and
what
he did as a "professional" way back when, home construction of HF receivers,
transmitters and transceivers just isn't his thing. Look at his articles in
'ham radio' - none of them are radio construction articles.

Lennie's "contribution" to radio was getting coffee for and staying out
of
the way of the REAL radio professionals as they did REAL engineering and
design work.

How do you know that, Steve?

Besides - it's not the issue.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Dave Heil wrote:
William wrote:

Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup.

But it is.


No, it isn't. Read statement below:


It is an "amateur

radio-related" newsgroup.

Please try to keep up. Notice the second "R" in RRAP? Amateur radio
is radio related.


This is not a general interest radio newsgroup.

Whooaaaaa there! While you guys are arguing minutia, I just have to
note that William is taking an exact opposite argument than he does with
his "Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio!" line. While in that case,
he takes Steve's statement and makes a *strict* interpretation in order
to make Steve appear wrong, in this case, when speaking of rrap, he uses
a *much* looser interpretation.

Loose interpretation is that rrap is a Radio group. (which I agree with)

Strict interpretation is that being an "Amateur Radio" newsgroup it
isn't strictly speaking a "radio only" newsgroup.

Just in case anyone is giving points out for consistency!

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...

As you know I'm more than just a tad
familiar with those old surplus drives. They were designed *seven
decades* ago for use in high altitude high vibration combat
environments.

Which makes them perfect for ham rigs.

Where's the correlation? You operate the Southgate 7 at 25,000 feet
while pulling Gs and getting shot at do ya?

They're solid, all-gears, and no slip and no backlash. Lube 'em up right and
they're very low torque, too.

Usually on fixed freqs. None of which has anything to do
with ham gear particularly today's ham gear. They're miserably slow
tuning *kluges* by any realistic measure.

I *like* slow tuning. How fast did you set the dial on the '847 for FD? 5
kHz per turn?

Since you're the Chief RRAP Tuning Rates guru and you didn't have a
problem with it one way or another during FD you should know right off
what it was. So you tell me. Hmmm? (here comes my second beef sammich
. . )

10 kHz per turn.

Lookit all the "modern" HF rigs - they typically default to a tuning rate
of
5-10 kHz/turn. I was doing that in my homebrew rigs 35 years ago.

. . . . and . . . ?

I wuz decades ahead of the curve. Nowadays, almost *every* rig allows you to do
5-10 kHz/turn. 35 years ago, only the Southgate Type 3 and a very few by other
manufacturers did.

The best Millen and National could do was a weenie 10:1. Miller came up
with
that goofy 6:1/36:1 planetary that cost the earth and felt like mush.

I still have a couple very nice smooth reduction drives out that era
which would great for tuning a little DC rcvr. I wouldn't use 'em for
anything more than a small-bore app like that.

Nor would I.

The Heath harmonic gear drives were really slick too.

What were they used in? You don't mean the SB series or the HW-100 or 101.

A good BC-221, ARC-5 or LM cap will do the job better and for a lot less
money and grief. Real gear drive, low torque, nice dial, etc.

Was the S-line a "kluge"? Tuning rate was 20 kHz/turn, IIRC,

Is that a complaint or a compliment?

A little of both

and took the ham
bands in 200 kHz chunks. Covering 80/40/20/15 took 10 bandswitch positions
and
10 xtals. Plus going across certain points on the same band (say, 3590 to
3610
or 7195 to 7205) took a bandswitch move and running the dial almost end to
end.

Real Hams have a cure for that. One xtal covers the usual 3.5-3.7
segment for CW contests and other xtal covers the 3.7-3.9 segment for
the phone contests. For the 40 phone contests ya listen with the
75S-3B and transmit with a 32S-3 equipped with a 7.1-7.3 xtal.

Right. You spend big bucks for an S-line, and the first step is to spend even
more to replace three of the stock xtals. Of course they weren't expensive
compared to the S line itself.

Then
Drake came out with rigs which tuned 500 wide Khz segemnts per xtal
which completely eliminated the problem.

Drake and Heath and everybody else...

I'll take my surplus, thank you very much.

Did I ever thank you for getting all my surplus junk outta my life?

Not yet...

Oddly enough, ARC-5 prices keep going up but BC-221/LM prices are down.

Freq meters ain't radios.

True.

OBTW - check out the prices on new rotary optical encoders of decent
quality, if you're thinking about a synthesized design.

Remember that you'll probably need one with a lot of slots/steps on the
encoder
disk. For example, if you want to have a tuning rate of 10 kHz turn and
want
the steps to be 100 Hz, you need a 100 slot/step-per-rev encoder. If you
want
faster tuning rate without sacrificing resolution, you need *more*
slots/steps.

I'd simply call yer buddies at Elecraft and pay the $69.13 for a K2
encoder then swipe the circuitry it uses out of their schematics and
have 10 Hz resolution.

You also have to write the code for the controller.

If I was anal enough I'd pick up an FT-847
shaft encoder instead and get 100 times better resolution than ya gat
out of the K2 display . . "Do not reinvent wheels".

Gotta do more than the encoder.

How many junker BC-221s can I buy for the price of one good encoder?

At five bucks a pop you could get 13 of 'em. Imagine: 13 BC-221s all
to yourself James! Orgastic! Could you stand it?

Heck, I'll build a whole receiver for that. With a little help from the stock
room...

You see what some folks pulled with those licenseless HTs down in Orange
County, FL?

Nope.

Coupla kids stole school HTs (dunno if they were green dot or yellow dot or
FRS/GMRS) and then said they were gonna blow up the school, shoot teachers,
etc. Both were over Len's 14 years of age limit. Both are in really deep
stuff.

Sure, transmitting radios don't need licenses or training in proper use....

I'll pass on this one. Might stir up Sweetums again.

So?

Junior year was a trip - 5 engineering courses and working 35-39
hours/week.

That's ugly.

No car, either. Thank you SEPTA....

PRR MU-54s: 14 minutes flat from Aldan to 30th St.

but...but...they're OLD technology!

Rattlers. Not that I had any choice in the matter.

They were pretty much gone by the 1970s.

I assume that by
now you've caught up with the fact that the PRR went belly up at least
partially as a result of it's antiquated capital investements. Like a
gazillion MU-54s.

Not really.

PRR was victim of three things:

1) Overregulation by the Feds. Fixed by the Staggers Act of 1980.

2) The interstate highway system

3) A merger with the N&W was refused, but a merger with the New York Central
happened. N&W and PRR were similar operations serving different markets; such a
merger would probably have succeeded. PRR/NYC were competitors who could not
have been much more different; their merger was a complete mess from the getgo.

Oddly enough, most of what used to be the PRR is now part of the Norfolk
Southern, which is the direct descendant of the N&W. And most of what used to
be the NYC is now part of CSX.

Here we go, I'm gonna hold yer feet to the fire on this one Micollis.
I'm gonna show up at your place with a .dxf of a random cross-section
on a CD and you find **all** of it's cross-sectional properties within
120 seconds or you pop for my Newtown Square Ale House wet roast beef
sammich.

All I do is email the problem to you and wait for the results. Then
Microstation does a format conversion....

You SLIME!

Serious spankage, huh?

I didn't say I could solve the problem, just that I could get the
results!

I'll buy the RB without a bet.

. . . you got that right . . !

What's the beverage of choice with those sammiches?

Manhattens up with rocks on the side of course.

I'm droolin...

73 de Jim, N2EY

.....still missing the old Drexel Ale House in the Bond Shopping
Center.......

SOB! Major culinary disaster. Mike's on 420 in Springfield near the
trolley station is still in the biz and they're pretty decent.

I know the place. We gotta go...

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/7/2004 6:33 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

Ahhhhhh! But he CAN report to us on the VHF navaids from LAX! Oh joy!

Some people are into that...

After thinking about it, it makes sense....The ATIS and AWOS systems
repeat the same thing over and over and over...Kinda like Lennie's posts.

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our
lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

Sure it is, Jim!

Lennie has insisted that his "professional" career was far more productive
and useful than anything Amateurs do. I want to know WHAT it was he thinks he
did that is so useful? What is in my home or what do I use on a daily basis
that has HIS direct participation in that I can't do without?

Lennie's "contribution" to radio was getting coffee for and staying out
of
the way of the REAL radio professionals as they did REAL engineering and
design work.

How do you know that, Steve?

From the opinions of someone who knew him and worked in the same facility
as he.

Besides - it's not the issue.

It is as long as Lennie keeps trying to throw his "professional" weight
around. He claims he's a hotshot, but I know of at least one other TRUE
professional says otherwise.

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 10/7/2004 9:13 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Dave Heil wrote:
William wrote:

Firstly, this isn't a "radio-related" newsgroup.

But it is.


No, it isn't. Read statement below:


It is an "amateur

radio-related" newsgroup.

Please try to keep up. Notice the second "R" in RRAP? Amateur radio
is radio related.


This is not a general interest radio newsgroup.

Whooaaaaa there! While you guys are arguing minutia, I just have to
note that William is taking an exact opposite argument than he does with
his "Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio!" line. While in that case,
he takes Steve's statement and makes a *strict* interpretation in order
to make Steve appear wrong, in this case, when speaking of rrap, he uses
a *much* looser interpretation.

Loose interpretation is that rrap is a Radio group. (which I agree
with)

Strict interpretation is that being an "Amateur Radio" newsgroup it
isn't strictly speaking a "radio only" newsgroup.

Just in case anyone is giving points out for consistency!

You wouldn't expect Son of Lennie to follow his own "rules", would you,
Mike?

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/7/2004 8:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

We'll discuss it at next Dayton...See you there, Brain!

Stay away from me.

Afraid of having to look someone in the eyes and THEN tell your tales,
Brain?

I think you're nuts, and not to be trusted.

No...I have embarrassed you and proven you to be the charlatan that you
are.

You lack the strength of conviction to sign your real name or Amateur call
to your postings here, and you certainly lack the strength of character to face
ANYone who challenges your sense of impropiety.

You're a coward in person or behind the keyboard.

Whether or not I'm at Dayton will be a mystery to you.

No it won't.

Yes, it will.

Nope. But you keep that thought in mind if it keeps you warm Brain...Just
keep saying to yourself "...he doesn't know I am here...he doesn't know I am
here...he doesn't know I am here..."

YOU can quote, re-quote, and re-re-quote ONE SENTENCE that I made,
OUT OF
THE CONTEXT of the whole post that it was made in, yet when its turned on
you,
suddenly you want different rules applies, written or unwritten.

"Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio!" in any context is simply
wrong.

No, it's not.

I hold my agreement in abayence. Exactly what are you gualled about?

I think you meant "gaulled".

Sorry. I thought you meant "gald.".

Well...there you go trying to think again.

Your bad spelling leaves a lot of room for error.

No it doesn't. It leaves room for YOU to make excuses, but little room for
"error".

We could start with your complete lack of character, your
DOCUMENTED
pattern of lying and deceit, and we can wrap it up with your complete
failure
to validate even ONE example of your self-proclaimed "superior operator"
status.

Strange. The very same thing is said about you.

Oh?

By whom?

Lennie? Vipul? YOU...?!?!

I, on the other hand, AM in the logbooks of several RRAP'ers (mixed
modes), and am on the ARRL's DXCC (also mixed modes). Certainly no
"superior
operator", but then (a) I never made so stupid an assertion, (b) at least
there is third party corroboration of what I have said and/or done, and (c)
K4YZ has appeared in the various Amateur related publications on occassion
in
contest result columns, public service events, and as a group pariticpant
in
various club activites since I acquired the call in 97. You may refer to
any
of my previous callsigns before that.

Unless you can point out an example to the contrary, I've never seen
YOUR
call (ANY of your calls) in ANY publication other than one of the callsign
servers.

And that's just what we know of you from THIS forum. I shudder to
think
what any deeper investigation might reveal.

You own several Yahoo groups...(SNIP)

Yes, I do.

"CAP_Communications" has 136 members. The topic should be self
explanatory as to it's purpose and application.

"ER-Nurses" has over 400, many in Western Europe, the United Kigdom,
Australia and New Zealand, in addition to the Canadian and US members.
There
was one in Uruguay, however I think she moved back to Toronto.

"CitizenSoldiers" has over 50. It's a forum for veterans, members
of
the Auxiliaries, and/or any of the lawful state defense forces.

This is rich.

No, it's facts.

Anyone with the same Internet access that you or I enjoy can immediately
verify what I have stated above. And to narrow it down a bit for anyone who
cares, they can find my DXCC "enrollment" in the August 2000 listings.

And you still haven't explained how introducing any of my Yahoo!
discussion groups is germane to ANY discussion or argument here, Brain. What's
up with that?

You (and anyone else here) are welcome to join any of them if you
have
some interest in any of them. The archives of each are open, BTW, and
you're
free to browse.

Thank you. I think I will take you up on that.

Go right ahead.

....(UNSNIP)...and have been kicked off of at least one.

John K's group...THAT really hurt! Owie...Ooooie....

Now...what does my "ownership" of several discussion groups have to do
with YOUR patterns of lying and deceit...?!?! Still trying to figure out
how
your "PuppetBoy" brain figured that they were somehow germane to the
discussion
about your online conduct.

Steve, K4YZ

It is your on-line conduct that is questionable. I was not kicked off
of any Yahoo group - you were. Doesn't play well with others. One
day there may a special interest group, Swift-Kick Veterans Against
Steve/K4CAP.

You can keep it from happening by changing your bad behavio[u]r.

Hi, hi!

Best of Luck.

No luck needed, Brain.

John "kicked me off" of his Yahoo (then OneList) group for what went on in
THIS forum, not anything that was said or transpired there. That was his one
and only way of being "one up" on someone.

Do you think I should ask the State of Ohio to revoke your driver's
license just becasue you like to lie and make up storiews on RRAP...?!?!

You will be welcomed on any of my Yahoo! forums under the very same rules
that apply to any of the other subscribers to each...There's no flaming,
there's certainly no name calling, and the conversations, with extremely rare
exception, are directly relevent to the character of the group.

I know those three rules will be hard for you to tolerate, but consider it
nurturing.

Steve, K4YZ

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

(Avery Fineman)(so desperate to get past spam
filters
that he changes screen names)wrote in message
...
In article ,
PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:


So...was all this "phase noise" invisible way back in the
1990 time? It didn't exist?

That you didn't read the published material does not mean that the
material did not exist. The synthesizer phase noise issue was debated
well before 1990.

It is referred to in QST product reviews of ~20 years ago.

Thus the tube radio. No synthesizer. What a wunderful way around it.
Hi, hi!

Ever see a mention of "phase noise" causing all the front end noise
in receivers back 20 years ago? :-)

Nope. Just plain old "kay-tee-delta-eff" random noise. That's still
around, still the limiting factor in sensitivity.

Jimmie, putting on his "kluge clothes," said that "phase noise" is
THE limiting factor in receiver sensitivity. He has two degrees and
is a PCTA extra...no one can argue with him. :-)

It only came up when a frequency
synthesizer was incorporated? :-)

Synthesizers were in wide use prior to 1990.

Extreme wide use.

The phase noise issue
became important as synthesizer circuits became common in transceivers.

The phase noise issue became an issue with the first synthesizer
circuit.

I'll invite to read up on the subject.

Ditto.

I've provided several urls.

Ho ho!

There are numerous other sources of information on the subject. Why not
avail yourself of some of them?

Compare the transmitted noise spectra of an SG2020, Elecraft K2, and K1.
Guess
where that noise comes from?

Synthesizer circuits?

Tsk. Apparently random noise at the input has disappeared with
the advent of the frequency synthesizers. :-)

R70s were made 1982-84 (approximately), so the design is at least 23
years old (1981). You frequenctly denigrate others as "behind the
times", yet the R70 is the newest/most modern piece of HF radio
equipment you mention owning. Just another example of "do as Len says,
not as Len does".

That little Icom R-70 still works fine, as advertised.

While I doubt that the receiver functions as advertised, I have no
trouble believing that it works as designed.

Ya missed the point.

Ooops!

Other designs are criticized because of age - but not the R-70. Guess why.

Schindler?

Nah. Jimmie knows I have an Icom R-70. THAT is the reason for
his diatribe.

Doesn't matter what the model is, if I have it, it must be no good! :-)

I've got one. You don't. :-)

Don't want one. If somebody gave me one, I'd sell it.

And do what with the money?

Buy running shoes? Almost anything but buy a (hack, ptui)
ready-built ham radio! :-)

I'm sure it is quite a nice piece of equipment for the casual SWL. I'm
happy for you.

Happiness abounds in RRAP!

Only among the mighty macho morsemen...

The only thing I "recycled" was some paper to get one in working
order. :-)

I recall you mentioning that. "Cash" wasn't it? Use of a credit card
would have muddied the waters.

I paid cash for all the parts in the Type 7....

What? No TV transformer yoke?

...or the color burst crystal. :-)


"Phase noise" wasn't a big buzzword then. It has a three-loop
PLL in it plus a microcontroller. Sensitivity is still good and
comparable with any contemporary HF receiver.

"Phase noise" wasn't a big buzz word in the Icom engineering and sales
bunch. Elsewhere, the use of the term was already common.

Like amongst hams.

Like with the first synthesized circuit radios???

And of course, those very first synthisized circuit radios were ham
radios!

Hi, hi!

Jimmie has wide experience in all radio...comes from "serving
his country" by having a ham license and reading all those QSTs
stacked next to his kluge.

I've yet to get close to the concept of sitting around a shack
making as many contacts as possible in a given time as any
"sport."

It's called "competition".

Nope, it's called contesting.

Best of Luck.

Skill and endurance are certainly big factors in winning any amateur
radio contest.

Somebody's half-way awake. Missed the boat ont he sport concept.

He's not as good a sport as he pretends...


Neither is that activity "pioneering the ariwaves" nor
any sort of "training for emergencies" to reasonable-thinking
human beans.

Did you ask any? No claims for contests as pioneering the "ariwaves"
have been made. Any on-air activity which requires speedy, accurate
operation is good training for emergency situations.

Contest operation also points up the weak points in any radio station. The
contest and DX folks have pushed the need for better rigs for decades.

Where money is no object. I thought you guys were focused on
third-worlders who had to self-manufacture CW only circuits?
Wherethere is no money. Which is it?

They don't really know. The one they are sure of is that morse
code skill is the ultimate, the ne plus ultra, of all radio skill. Do
morse or be considered lesser. :-)

Like chess or checkers or board games, radio contesting is
a GAME.

So are all sports. Like the Olympic GAMES...

Messing with Steve is a game. Emergency comms is no game.

MARS is NOT Amateur Radio.

PCTA fantasy says it IS. Excuse me...IS. :-)

Jimmie "serves his country" by engaging in the hobby of ham
radio. He said so. We can't argue anything that he's said.

There are some similarities. A good strategy, playing within the rules

Rules

RULES???

Like copying the W1AW message the day before? Hello Kelly???

Hi, hi! These guys obey no rules.

They are the elite! Rules are for the other hams.

In one way, that's nice...we get to "eat cake" when we have no
bread.

Marie A. once said that, got so upset she lost her head...

and some luck are involved. No board games that I'm aware of require
putting up big antennas at height, putting together a radio station or
planning sleep breaks.

Why must you confine your "game" to board games???

Are road rally's played on a board?

PCTA fantasies are done in their heads.

Think car racing. Bicycle racing (Lance Armstrong wasn't riding a
three-speed
with baloon tires)

Allow Bill Sohl to speak of road rally's. If you dare.

It is FAR from an ATHLETIC sport.

Not if done correctly.

Let's see....I run as exercise and also a sport. Done two marathons and more
half-marathons, ten-milers, 10Ks and 5 milers than I can recall. Mike Coslo
is
a hockey player.

What sports do others participate in? ot as spectators!

Lying? Robeson leads.

That's a PCTA radiosport. :-)

You *do* sound just like him, Len. Lots of words and lots of put-downs
and lots of theory. But in terms of actual radios built on your own
time, with your own resources, from your own design....nada. Zip.
Zilch. Zero. Nothing. Not that anyone here knows about in all your
years and petabytes of posting.

If I had extra copies, I could, with a year or so off to do it,
digitize
those things and put them on a website that allowed at least 100
MB user space. That includes corporate documents (public)
along with photographs.

The challenge is for *homebrew* radio projects. Not stuff done for work.

Yet most of the HEROES of amateur radio were doing their heroic work
as PROFESSIONALS!!!

Explain.

Explain again!

Tsk. Jimmie NEVER said what HE does at his regular job. All he's
admitted to was in one Comment on one of the petitions at the FCC
that he is engaged in vehicular propulsion systems. That's all. No
details, just a general statement.

Well, Jimmie must do SUCH good work at work that he doesn't think
any of it is a challenge. Tsk. No enthusiasm shown for what he does
for a living.

The "challenge" is to build kluges in the shack and then try to get
everyone to admire and respect his work.

Not worth it, since the typical PCTA
extra "commentary" (to use a word very loosely) would be
totally derogatory.

You mean you fear reaping what you sow?

"We" only fear reaping what Steve sows. Spooky dood. Low-class
ideas.

No fear here. No pity either. Tsk.

My little text and photo memorabilia on the
ADA assignment takes 6 MB in PDF.

Did you design and build ADA on your own time, with your own resources?

Did you build the VE system on your own time, with your own resources?

Either HE did or he aligns hisself in the same league by virtue of the
document about a hobby he says is "service to the country!"

We can't argue with Homeland Security these days...





YOU have REJECTED simple things like a digitized license
repro in the past.

I didn't ask for it. I had already said I'd take your word that you had
one.

But you sent me*several* unsolicited emails with unknown attachments of
large
size. (Ever hear of compressing a file before sending?).

How was I to know what they were? I found out later that one attachement was
a
picture that contained male nudity. Not my cup of tea, so to speak.

Must have been right up Steve's foci!

"Male nudity?" In that nice aerial photo of a converted B-26 in flight
it is impossible to tell gender. :-)

You would be expected to reject anything I
present...as "credentials" or whatever real proof there is...and
there is a lot of it.

It's real simple, Len:

Pick an HF radio project that you did in your home workshop as a "hobby"
activity. Not something for work, or something you did as part of a group,
but
something you dreamed up and built yourself, just for the fun of it. Not
some
accessory, either - a complete receiver, transmitter or transceiver.

Put a picture and a short description on your AOL homepage, just like I did.
We
don't need megabytes or a long diatribe. Just a .jpg and a short
description.

My project is out there for all to see. Where's yours? Or are you too afraid
of
what others will say?

Was Fesseden's projects for amateur radio? Marconi?

All of the broadcasting stations I worked in all do AM by sticking a single
microphone in the antenna leads...NOT. :-)

All of the broadcasting stations I worked in all did morse code news...NOT.

Actually, I DO have enough material that could be digitized from various
employments (even has my picture in some of them), enough to fill at
least 100 MB of filespace. Why bother? Just to answer Jimmie's
so-called challenge? He thinks so. He says it enough to make it a
demand.

I DO have some pictures of stuff I've done personally, again enough to fill
lots of filespace. I'm even taking progress pictures as a couple projects
get done in various stages. For MY pleasure and maybe some ideas for a
very few others who I've known for some time.

I'm not out in any "competition" via websites appearance or that sort of
thing. I'm not out to garner admiration and respect through websites.

Jimmie got bent out of shape by not getting gushing admiration or
respect for his kluges built from tubes in the 1990s. Saying that the
photo shows neatness isn't enough. We were all supposed to applaud
and make gratuitous nine-nice noises?

As to the "ability to draw schematics from memory," I don't recall a
single design review meeting at work where a participant was NOT
able to recall schematics from memory...of their project, or others
projects that they were peripherally involved in. That includes ALL
details pertinent, such as environmental conditions, some mechanical
structural considerations and the like.


A federal REGULATION requiring morse code testing in order
to get an AMATEUR license to operate on HF is NOT
"live and let live."

Yes, it is.

It is not. No other AMERICAN radio service requires such.

To the PCTA extra, the ONLY way to be American is to take the
code test...like THEY did.

Ho hum.


Would you mind saying that just one more time for the record?

Please don't encourage the guru of here...Jimmie will bust a gut
writing and writing and writing and writing "truth" (as only he knows).


And all PCTA's are actually against doing away with the code test on
the ground that it will diminish their status as "REAL Hams."

That is IT in a nutshell. Quintescense of their existace. :-)

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:


Asinine from to bottom. Do yourself a big favor Burke. GROW UP.

He did. I did. Now it's your turn. What's taking you so long?

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/7/2004 6:33 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

Ahhhhhh! But he CAN report to us on the VHF navaids from LAX! Oh
joy!

Some people are into that...

After thinking about it, it makes sense....The ATIS and AWOS systems
repeat the same thing over and over and over...Kinda like Lennie's posts.

True!

Tsk. Jimmie has ALL that "experience" on civil airways to "qualify" his
comments. That's just like all his "experience" in the space business.

Jimmie should make an AOL homepage describing all his space
adventures. It's real easy to do and AOL has free software to do it.

:-)

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

Sure it is, Jim!

No, it isn't.

Suppose some nonham "had a hand in creating" the cell phone, or the
802.11G modem, or the RF ID tag reader used on containers, trucks and
railcars, or a host of other things. Does that *technical* achievement
somehow make him/her the most qualified person to set the rules and
regs in *amateur* radio?

Ham radio regulations are to be regulated SOLELY by hams?

Tsk. FCC do dat. For EVERY civil radio service. It's the law.

But hum raddio is "different." :-)

Lennie has insisted that his "professional" career was far more productive
and useful than anything Amateurs do.

Where did he do that?

What I have seen is numerous verbose listings of his employers, and
projects he was part of. That's all.

Yes, I've named employers and some work done. I was there and
did those things.

Where did Jimmie do his engineering work on radio?

I want to know WHAT it was he thinks he
did that is so useful? What is in my home or what do I use on a daily basis
that has HIS direct participation in that I can't do without?

Don't hold yer breath!

Tsk. There's NOTHING about what either one of you has done that
affected my home or what I use on a daily basis. Nada. Zip.

Lennie's "contribution" to radio was getting coffee for and staying out of
the way of the REAL radio professionals as they did REAL engineering and
design work.

How do you know that, Steve?

From the opinions of someone who knew him and worked in the same facility
as he.

OK - let's say, just for the point of discussion, that your source is
right on the money.

Just for the point of the discussion consider that nursie is a LIAR.

Nursie has NO such name. That individual is a fabrication of his
fantasy world.

Nursie CAN'T name any names becuase no such person exists.

That only covers one time period at one facility. Len tells us he has
worked a lot of places over a long period of time. One
less-than-stellar job does not a career ruin.

Tsk. "Less-than-stellar." :-)

I completed a career, don't have to put in regular hours anymore.

Don't you just HATE it when someone ruins your ranting? :-)

Besides - it's not the issue.

It is as long as Lennie keeps trying to throw his "professional" weight
around.

No, it isn't.

It seems to be nursie's core of existance in this newsgroup. :-)


In Len's case we have an extreme example:

[in Jimmie's case he is the "stellar example" of what a "real ham" is]

He's never had an amateur radio license

True.

Never worked as any sort of licensed radio operator in any other radio
service

WRONG. INCORRECT. ERROR!

Never been involved in radio regulatory matters other than writing
voluminous comments to FCC,

Tsk. Jimmie hasn't been any sort of radio regulator.

Never manufactured or designed any equipment for hams

Did Jimmie do dat? :-)

Hasn't written an article or done a visible project in amateur radio
circles for more than 22 years

I quit going around in circles. :-)

And by his numerous mistakes in his postings here, doesn't really know
that much about what hams actually do on the radio in the first place.
(Note his continuing non-understanding of why phase noise is an issue
for HF hams).

My visa for Fantasy Island has expired, don't know what "hams
actually do on the radio in the first place" because I couldn't
possibly be first place. All I can do is hear them. | snore |

Tsk. Radio physics must have changed in Jimmie's fantasy ham
world. "Kay-tee-delta-eff" is still there as the major sensitivity
limiter for all other radios (aka "Johnson noise" or whatever anyone
wants to call random, above-absolute-zero noise voltage in
components).

Jimmie's ham world doesn't have buzzwords. It has only the most
modern of things. Like kluge-looking transceivers built from recycled
parts and tubes in the 1990s.

Yet he tries to tell us that his professional background somehow makes
him more qualified than to determine *amateur radio* policy than any
of us hams.

NOBODY can tell a PCTA extra ANYTHING! :-)

THEY rule amateur radio! [the FCC is just a federal agency, not
involved?]

NO FCC staffer or commissioner is required to have any amateur
radio license.

It would be like me, a male non-golfer, saying that I know best how
the LPGA should be run. Or that the folks who run the cruise ships
should determine policy for sailboats.

Riiiight, Tiger. Good luck on your new marriage and PGA next year.

The entire argument is faulty.

PCTA extras enoble themselves to sit on "judge" benches. :-)

It's not an issue of whether Len is/was
a "hotshot" but rather how valid his arguments are.

Jimmie says everything I say is "wrong" and "in error." :-)

Well, it's hard to argue with someone who "serves his country" by
engaging in the hobby of ham radio...

The rest is diversion and bafflegab.

It would be like me, a male non-golfer, saying that I know best how
the LPGA should be run. Or that the folks who run the cruise ships
should determine policy for sailboats.

Tsk, despite saying that twice, the point wasn't made.

Like it or no, the FCC still does NOT require any staffer or
commissioner to hold an amateur radio license in order to regulate
U.S. ham radio.

Don't you just HATE it when someone brings reality into a simple
little rant you have?

The central issue is whether his proposed changes would help or hurt
the ARS. I say they would hurt the ARS.

The Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS) will be fatally hurt by
removal of the code test for any ham license.

It will be the End of The World As They Know It. Bye....

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (N2EY)
Date: 10/8/2004 11:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our
lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

Sure it is, Jim!

No, it isn't.

Suppose some nonham "had a hand in creating" the cell phone, or the
802.11G modem, or the RF ID tag reader used on containers, trucks and
railcars, or a host of other things. Does that *technical* achievement
somehow make him/her the most qualified person to set the rules and
regs in *amateur* radio?

We're not talking about any other person, Jim.

Just one.

One that makes a point of being antagonistic and deceitful.

Lennie has insisted that his "professional" career was far more productive
and useful than anything Amateurs do.

Where did he do that?

You're kidding, right? Which one of thousands of posts shall we refer
to...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (N2EY)
Date: 10/8/2004 11:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our
lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

Sure it is, Jim!

No, it isn't.

Suppose some nonham "had a hand in creating" the cell phone, or the
802.11G modem, or the RF ID tag reader used on containers, trucks and
railcars, or a host of other things. Does that *technical* achievement
somehow make him/her the most qualified person to set the rules and
regs in *amateur* radio?

We're not talking about any other person, Jim.

Just one.

Why should different rules apply?

One that makes a point of being antagonistic and deceitful.

Look beyond that for a moment. Consider my question again:

Suppose some nonham "had a hand in creating" the cell phone, or the
802.11G modem, or the RF ID tag reader used on containers, trucks and
railcars, or a host of other things. Does that *technical* achievement
somehow make him/her the most qualified person to set the rules and
regs in *amateur* radio?

Yes or no or something else?

Lennie has insisted that his "professional" career was far more productive
and useful than anything Amateurs do.

Where did he do that?

You're kidding, right? Which one of thousands of posts shall we refer
to...?!?!

Pick some...

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/7/2004 6:33 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 10/5/2004 6:28 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:
In article ,

More tsk. My choice of residence location is NOT primarily
motivated by any slavering desire to erect a radio station of
any kind.

Great. It looks like you've got your wish.

Ahhhhhh! But he CAN report to us on the VHF navaids from LAX! Oh
joy!

Some people are into that...

After thinking about it, it makes sense....The ATIS and AWOS systems
repeat the same thing over and over and over...Kinda like Lennie's posts.

True!

I'm still waiting for Lennie to regale us with what RF devices our
lives
can't do without that he allegedly had a hand in creating.

Again, not the issue.

Sure it is, Jim!

No, it isn't.

Suppose some nonham "had a hand in creating" the cell phone, or the
802.11G modem, or the RF ID tag reader used on containers, trucks and
railcars, or a host of other things. Does that *technical* achievement
somehow make him/her the most qualified person to set the rules and
regs in *amateur* radio?

Ham radio regulations are to be regulated SOLELY by hams?

"You can not answer a question with another question"

Tsk. FCC do dat. For EVERY civil radio service. It's the law.

You're not the FCC, Len. Also not a ham.

But hum raddio is "different." :-)

What is "hum raddio"?

Lennie has insisted that his "professional" career was far more productive
and useful than anything Amateurs do.

Where did he do that?

What I have seen is numerous verbose listings of his employers, and
projects he was part of. That's all.

Yes, I've named employers and some work done. I was there and
did those things.

Good for you, Len!

Where did Jimmie do his engineering work on radio?

Why does that matter?

I want to know WHAT it was he thinks he
did that is so useful? What is in my home or what do I use on a daily
basis
that has HIS direct participation in that I can't do without?

Don't hold yer breath!

Tsk. There's NOTHING about what either one of you has done that
affected my home or what I use on a daily basis. Nada. Zip.

Then we're even, because there's nothing *you* have done that
affected my home or what I use on a daily basis. Nada. Zip.

Lennie's "contribution" to radio was getting coffee for and staying out
of
the way of the REAL radio professionals as they did REAL engineering and
design work.

How do you know that, Steve?

From the opinions of someone who knew him and worked in the same facility
as he.

OK - let's say, just for the point of discussion, that your source is
right on the money.

Just for the point of the discussion consider that nursie is a LIAR.

Why?

And who is "nursie"?

Can you not tolerate a hypothetical discussion, Len? It seems that way.

Nursie has NO such name. That individual is a fabrication of his
fantasy world.

How do you know?

Nursie CAN'T name any names becuase no such person exists.

Prove it!

Do you really expect us to believe that over decades long "vareer in radio
electronics", that there is not a single person you encountered who would say
what has been claimed?

That only covers one time period at one facility. Len tells us he has
worked a lot of places over a long period of time. One
less-than-stellar job does not a career ruin.

Tsk. "Less-than-stellar." :-)

Yes.

Perhaps the report is true. Perhaps it isn't. Even if true, it is the opinion
of just one person at just one place and time.

Do you think one such report somehow discredits an entire career?

I completed a career, don't have to put in regular hours anymore.

So what? Does that somehow make you more qualified to set amateur radio policy
than those still working "regular hours"?

Unless I'm mistaken, Dave Heil, K8MN, completed a career and is now retired.
And he did it in a lot less years than you did, Len. Plus he was in the US
military and in government service - and an active radio amateur.

By your logic, he's more qualified to determine amateur radio policy than you.

Don't you just HATE it when someone ruins your ranting? :-)

It appears you do....

Besides - it's not the issue.

It is as long as Lennie keeps trying to throw his "professional" weight
around.

No, it isn't.

It seems to be nursie's core of existance in this newsgroup. :-)

"Nursie"?

In Len's case we have an extreme example:

[in Jimmie's case he is the "stellar example" of what a "real ham" is]

Thank you, Len.

He's never had an amateur radio license

True.

Never worked as any sort of licensed radio operator in any other radio
service

WRONG. INCORRECT. ERROR!

Why the shouting?

If it's not correct, give is the info.

Where and when did you work as a licensed radio operator, Len? And in what
radio service?

Never been involved in radio regulatory matters other than writing
voluminous comments to FCC,

Tsk. Jimmie hasn't been any sort of radio regulator.

Not the issue.

Never manufactured or designed any equipment for hams

Did Jimmie do dat? :-)

Not the issue either.

Hasn't written an article or done a visible project in amateur radio
circles for more than 22 years

I quit going around in circles. :-)

And by his numerous mistakes in his postings here, doesn't really know
that much about what hams actually do on the radio in the first place.
(Note his continuing non-understanding of why phase noise is an issue
for HF hams).

My visa for Fantasy Island has expired,

I've never had one...

don't know what "hams
actually do on the radio in the first place" because I couldn't
possibly be first place. All I can do is hear them. | snore |

Can you?

Tsk. Radio physics must have changed in Jimmie's fantasy ham
world. "Kay-tee-delta-eff" is still there as the major sensitivity
limiter for all other radios (aka "Johnson noise" or whatever anyone
wants to call random, above-absolute-zero noise voltage in
components).

I know all about that. Has nothing to do with phase noise as has been discussed
here.

Jimmie's ham world doesn't have buzzwords. It has only the most
modern of things. Like kluge-looking transceivers built from recycled
parts and tubes in the 1990s.

It is interesting that you are hung up on appearance and parts origins rather
than how well something works.

Yet he tries to tell us that his professional background somehow makes
him more qualified than to determine *amateur radio* policy than any
of us hams.

NOBODY can tell a PCTA extra ANYTHING! :-)

THEY rule amateur radio! [the FCC is just a federal agency, not
involved?]

NO FCC staffer or commissioner is required to have any amateur
radio license.

So what? You're not part of the FCC - and you never have been.

It would be like me, a male non-golfer, saying that I know best how
the LPGA should be run. Or that the folks who run the cruise ships
should determine policy for sailboats.

Riiiight, Tiger. Good luck on your new marriage and PGA next year.

The entire argument is faulty.

PCTA extras enoble themselves to sit on "judge" benches. :-)

No, that's you, Len.

It's not an issue of whether Len is/was
a "hotshot" but rather how valid his arguments are.

Jimmie says everything I say is "wrong" and "in error." :-)

Well, it's hard to argue with someone who "serves his country" by
engaging in the hobby of ham radio...

The rest is diversion and bafflegab.

It would be like me, a male non-golfer, saying that I know best how
the LPGA should be run. Or that the folks who run the cruise ships
should determine policy for sailboats.

Tsk, despite saying that twice, the point wasn't made.

Show us where it's not a valid statement, then. I'm on the outside looking in
when it comes to the LPGA and sailboat policy. You're on the outside looking in
when it comes to both amateur radio and the FCC.

Like it or no, the FCC still does NOT require any staffer or
commissioner to hold an amateur radio license in order to regulate
U.S. ham radio.

But it *does* require them to be qualified according to the standards of the
FCC. You're not qualified that way. And you're not on the FCC, and never have
been.

Don't you just HATE it when someone brings reality into a simple
little rant you have?

You sure seem to have a lot of hate, Len.

The central issue is whether his proposed changes would help or hurt
the ARS. I say they would hurt the ARS.

The Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS) will be fatally hurt by
removal of the code test for any ham license.

It will be the End of The World As They Know It. Bye....

Is that what you want?

"Kim" wrote in message om...
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
...

Actually, this one should have been "This is not a 'radio-related'..."
and it isn't. This newsgroup concerns amateur radio policy, not
broadcast radio policy, Citizens Band radio policy, GMS radio policy or
general radio policy. You can try making this into a "Sorry, Hans.
Mars is" argument but I'm not buying it.


Ummmm, Dave? Seems you've not only bought the argument, but you're pretty
much leading it. Of course, after all your tirades about me, seems the only
thing I've seen from you since I started reviewing the group again, is,
arguments. And, ya can't blame it on me, because I haven't been here.

Class? PAH!!!!

Kim W5TIT

Yup. That's our World Renowned DXer. Unhappy in any mode.