Leo wrote in message . ..
On 21 Nov 2004 18:42:08 -0800, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

Leo wrote in message . ..
On 20 Nov 2004 13:30:15 GMT, PAMNO (N2EY) wrote:

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

Mike Coslo wrote in message
...
N2EY wrote:
snip

He could just as easily be another of Len's online personalities.

That's an odd comment indeed.....a bit of paranoia perhaps, OM?


73 de Jim, N2EY


134, Leo

88s?! SHEESH!


Not quite 88s.

From the "Western Union 92 Code" - 134 means "Who is at the key?".
Pretty much the question that Jim seems to be pondering - I'm just
restating it telegraphicallyfor him....... :)

http://scard.buffnet.net/pages/tele/...66/92code.html

73, Leo

Looks like our Morse Experts aren't so expert. :)

Leo wrote in message . ..
On 21 Nov 2004 13:13:12 -0800, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

Leo wrote in message . ..
On 20 Nov 2004 01:57:21 -0800, (Brian Kelly) wrote:
snip

I ran into a great blonde in the Toronto airport terminal who was a
Mountie. Told her didn't look much like Sergeant Preston to me and
asked her where her horse was. She asked me when I was going back
where I came from.

Heh - I can picture that! Bet she never heard that one before..... :0

She tried to suppress the laugh, didn't work.

Seriously, though, in downtown Toronto in the 70s, I frequently had
tourists stop me and ask where they could see an igloo (2,500 miles
north would be a great place to start!) and where all of the trees
were (!).

groan! They're all over.

I was working in France in 1982 and my boss popped over. We were at
the tail end of the line waiting to go up the Eiffel Tower and a tour
bus disgorged a big load middle-aged flyover country Yanks. A
blue-haired female version of significant girth in a hot pink stretch
suit came off the bus and plowed into line right behind us. She
immediately got into loudly complaining about how "None of these
people around here speak English!" and stared at me for a moment then
asked "Do YOU speak English?!" I stared back for a moment or two,
shrugged my shoulders, then "Parle vous Francais madam . . ?" She
erupted: "See, I toldja, here's another one!!"

My boss gave me an elbow shot to the ribs and whispered, "Kelly you're
such a s--t."

Doesn't seem to happen much anymore - maybe the Internet fixed that!.

I hope.

73. Leo

w3rv

Subject: Near Space Science - was They just don't get it
From: (William)
Date: 11/23/2004 10:53 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4YZ) wrote in message
...
Subject: Near Space Science - was They just don't get it
From: (William)
Date: 11/22/2004 5:51 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...

Sorry, Brain. No "promise" was made.

You are encouraged to re-post any such assertion.

Steve, in your third to the last post to me on November 7th, you said
that I was "kill" filed, and that you would see me at Dayton. You
gave the definite impression that you would have no further discourse
with me until Dayton.

Then YOUR "impression" was wrong.

No, it wasn't.

Yes, it was. No promise was made.

You've now been asked three times to repost the post wherein you allege I
made such a promise.

You cannot since it does not exist.

In other words, you HAVE been caught lying AGAIN!

You are in the killfile, Brain,

With the number of direct posts to me, that is -highly- unlikely. I'd
say it was impossible. In other words, your statement is untruthful.

Better ask some of the other AOL users about the AOL newsreader and how it
works. As a matter of fact, ask your mentor, Lennie the Liar. I am sure he
can attest to AOL's filtering system.

and as I said, 85% of your lying bile gets
deleted without further adieu. It still does not mean I can't read through
them before I hit "delete".

What is your purpose in kill filing someone, then posting that they
are kill filed and that you would speak to them at Dayton, and then
reading the kill filed messages?

Because I can just hit "Mark Read" when I want to and know that only you,
Lennie or Brucie could have been sent to the trash.

You are a truly a kook.

Hardly.

You don't need to preface a statement with "I
promise" in order for someone to think that you have given your word,
or that you might keep your word. Or perhaps you do.

Sure I do.

Apparently -you- do. The rest of us just take each other at their
word.

YOUR word, Brain...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA ! ! ! !!

You HAVE NO WORD to be taken seriously ! !

You have been proven a liar over and over again with your OWN "word",
Brain!

"I promise" is a definitive statement. I did not make that statement.
You
are welcomed to repost the quote wherein you think I said "I promise".

Then you post to me again and again.

Hardly "again and again". Most of the replies were to third persons
who
quoted you.

Is your word no good?

I think not.

My "word" is better than ANYthing that comes from the mouth or
keyboard of
Brian P Burke. You ARE a known liar who does not even abide his own
rhetoric.

Hardly. Hardly.

You ARE a known liar and you do NOT abide your own rhetoric, Brain!
Otherwise you would have offered some sort of retraction/apology for the "Steve
never admits wrongdoing or errors" statement which was made hours AFTER I had
already done just that very thing.

Creep. Scumbag. Liar. That's the legacy Brain P Burke leaves to his
namesakes.

Sheeeesh.

Steve, K4YZ

Got any more names in there? Just go ahead and get them out. You'll
feel much better afterward.

Ooops. You can't do that - you've got me kill filed. Hi, hi!

You are killfilled. I can read you or not. Mostly not.

And I wish there was some more complimentary adjectives I could send your
way, but you just keep reaffriming the old ones.

Sucks to be you.

Steve, K4YZ

On 23 Nov 2004 08:26:11 -0800, (Brian Kelly) wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:
snip
I'm convinced he is a VE3 named Leo. Your mileage is obviously varying
for some mysterious reason.

I ham, therefore I am :)


snip

I'm *outta* this goofy thread, I'm done with Mike, I'm bored, I gotta
go find somebody else to gnaw on.

Good idea - it seems to have degraded now into a mutual admiration and
backslapping society of our two intrepid near-space explorers....one
heavily involved, and one armchair QB-type....

Perhaps, when they're done with the fantasy phase of the project,
we'll see some rubber hit the sky? Stay tuned....


"CQ, CQ, CQ RRAP, no lids no kids . . "

"..no near space cadets.." ....sorry, couldn't resist again! :)

Ha!



73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

73, Leo

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Latex balloons.
Helium.
100,000 feet with a six pound payload.



Okay, you quoted a SALES PITCH.

More diversion.

I quoted what the named group uses, and then did research at the site
they bought their balloons at to ascertain what those particular
balloons were made of.


Why didn't you do that with YOUR sales pitch in here first?


Always the critic..

Yeah. I didn't note the frequencies we were going to use or the make
and model of the chase vehicles. Must be bogus.


There is a need to work out a protocol for balloon launches. But aside

from that, the use of latex balloons and the altitudes achieved with

these balloons is pretty well documented. Believe or do not. If you
don't believe me, then you don't believe a whole lot of people.


Besides, even if I did, your next statement indicates that it would not
have mattered.


Have you actually USED that "Totex" balloon? Did you get to
100 kilofeet with one? [how did you measure that altitude to
"prove" it?]


Whattya think? Think this is a good question point? Are you really so
skeptical that you accept NOTHING as reliable?


If it proves Len to be wrong...


It takes a certain something to remain steadfast in the face of the
truth. What exactly that is.... I don't know.... 8^)

If you believe that the EOSS is lying, and that Kaymont is engaging in
false advertisement about a product that they have produced since the
1940's, take it up with them.


Don't hold yer breath...

I wish someone would. It would be nice to let these disillusioned
people know that they aren't doing what they think they are doing.


I can supply references upon request.



A big reference Professor named Langley once convinced the USN
that heavier-than-air flying machines were dandy things for the fleet.
He talked them into rebuilding a small ship into an aircraft carrier.
His first flying machine "flight" went right off the bow and into the
water, climb rate in the minus numbers. Langley remained a "wheel"
(with references) but a couple of bicycle shop owners did the first
heavier-than-air flight...without anyone "proving it could be done" by
websites or advertisements.

Has nothing to do with the subject.

It's a wonder anything gets done with all those websites running
around... 8^)


Why the difference between a manufacturer of the latex balloons, and a
documented user group, and your facts?



You tell me. YOU are the "manager" of this "concept."


Two sets of rules - one for Len, one for everyone else. You have to justify
your statements, Len doesn't have to justify his...

Tis okay. I understand the meaning of that sort of thing.


THe difference is that you are incorrect.


I suspect that part of the confusion is that most weather balloons are
sent to a much lower altitude than what NSS does. The reason is that
almost all the weather occurs in the Troposphere (and below) They are
sending the balloons that high, because that is the area that they are
interested in.

This does not mean that the balloons can go no higher. The maximum
height that can be attained is a function of the maximum diameter that
the balloon can attain without bursting.

Contributing factors to this are the weight of the payload, which
influences how much of the H or He has to be put into the balloon, and
the needed amount of lift. More weight, more lift gas. Higher lift for
faster ascent means more lift gas. Since the balloon will be inflated to
a larger diameter at launch, it will attain maximum diameter before
burst at a lower altitude.


Convice everyone you are without fault by your ballooning successes
to date.

So strange a comment.


"Convice"?

Criminals sharing in socially unacceptable activity?

Still waiting for Len to show us his amateur radio and homebrewing successes
to date.


Nothing beyond "surprisingly inexpensive". I'm not making a financial
report to the group.



No? True...you don't have to tell anyone anything, including what
you are going to "do."


Are you telling me to shut up again?


Looks like it.


Otherwise I have a little trouble
making sense of that statement.


This was not about the financial aspects of the project anyhow. It was
in response to Hans' thread about the ARS being marginalized. Its a new
project.


Somehow I don't get a clear picture of all those "volunteers" just
waiting and anxious to give Mike Coslo TIME and MONEY to make
a "success" out of your "concept." Color me skeptical.

Not surprising.


Hockey team, star party, Field Day....

If you want more, you could dig it out of some of the other posts. A few
costs are in there.



Tsk. Standard newsgroup disclaimer. You expect others to go out
and do YOUR homework.


Len won't do his.


You would be doing the homework for yourself, Len. I really don't need
to convince you, and some newsgroup members have complained when I gave
them references.


All you have to do is outline your brilliant

It is not a particularly brilliant concept. In fact, since a number of
people are already doing it, it isn't a concept at all.


and unique "concept" and the cheering is supposed to start.

Unique? Incorrect. This project is not unique


In fact that's the biggest possible criticism - it's been done before, by
amateurs. Repeatedly....

Of course. So has putting up an antenna, or putting together a system
in the shack. Building things, talking, beeping or typing to people all
over the Earth.

But once we get past the basics - if we dare call them that - there is
room for innovation.

After all SpaceShipOne didn't go anywhere people have not been before.
But Rutan and his people certainly made some innovations along the way.


Ahem. I'm not required to provide financial data to you.



Absolutely true. You don't have to provide anything to anyone.

The project will be "inexpensive." The FAA is "accommodating."

"Others have already done it."

No sweaty-dah.


Len hasn't done it.

Nope. Some people are like that. Probably be coming up with reasons we
can't do it long after we do.

If you google up the parts of the thread where I was providing
"references" you could confirm the veracity of those statements for
yourself. But you won't.

And you are still incorrect about latex balloons reaching the 100,000
foot altitude.

Latex.
Helium *or* Hydrogen.
100,000 feet.

Its happening.


Therefore it's possible

73 de Jim, N2EY

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

is the ES 101 stuff. Actually doing it is very different. For example -
just what *are* all the facets of a given problem?.

I have no idea what "ES 101" is or was.

One of those intro engineering courses. Lays out basic concepts and
methods.

DIT didn't bless us with any of those. I guess we were expected to
pick it up on the fly during our industry periods. Which would be
typical. Like one of their standing policies; "Topics in the syllabus
not covered in class or by the homework will be covered in the final."

Different generation...

Seasoned technical types degreed and
otherwise learn out in the college of hard knocks how to plan and
execute projects in highly systematic manners because when money is
involved the project better be pulled off properly or yer outta work.

Which is not the same factor here.

In business if ya signed the contract to deliver X on date Y, you better do
it
or bad things will happen. In this balloon thing, a delay of weeks or
months is
no big deal if the result is success rather than failure.

I meant from the standpoint of organizing a project. Being nit-picky
about it "delivery dates" can matter in some hobby projects like when
one is faced with finishing up the job jar to get set for a specific
contest. I agree, in most cases nothing bad comes of slipped dates in
non-commercial efforts like it does out in the commercial world.

Point is it's still a different world.

That's the incentive. Beyond that we is what we is and we don't
change
our stripes when we get involved in the planning of off-hours
volunteer efforts or our hobbies.

Maybe *you* don't.

Not when it comes to identifying and organizing the sequence of
project milestones, laying out a budget, identifying the unknowns to
the extent possible and listing the assets required and such I don't.
It all goes down on paper or in an MS Project file from square one
just like I do on the job. Which is the way I'd run Mike's balloon
project. And which I sense is not the way Mike is approaching it.

You don't know Mike...

Wherein come the clashes with the
non-technical types we get involved with on joint efforts. Pick any
mid-to-large scale Field Day planning session around here for a
perfect example.

You might wanna look up how the CP folks did...

Ya ducked the bullet.

I scanned the scores but I couldn't find 'em in 2/3/4/5A. I missed it?
They didn't submit an entry? Howcum there's two lists for 1B-2?

They ran something like 8A with a call you probably don't recognize.

Most of the categories are split into three lists: Battery, Emergency Power,
and Commercial Power.

He let his cat out of the bag at some point in past but it got past
you. He's a VE but I had him in the wrong province.

Didn't get past me. Leo sez he's a VE3. But no call, no last name, no
positive
ID, no website, no outside confirmation. Maybe he is, maybe he ain't.

I'm convinced he is a VE3 named Leo. Your mileage is obviously varying
for some mysterious reason.

I'm simply pointing out there's no proof one way or the other.

No way, changing writing styles like changing fingerprints, can't be
done.

Nonsense. Ghostwriters do it all the time. Len's done the pseudonym thing
here more than once - that we know of.

Sweetums is a patterned, unlettered compulsively combative fomer
military aerospace bench tech, professional ghostwriters are usually
talented journalists, historians, etc. .

Now that's a valid point!

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:


(N2EY) wrote in message
...

In article ,



(Brian Kelly) writes:


There isn't much real "engineering" in the hard numeric design sense
attached
to doing what KB3EIA proposes. It's like adding a room onto a house - you
wouldn't do a complete stress analysis of every stud and joist, nor a fluid
dynamic analysis of the plumbing just so you could have a half-bath on the
ground floor.

Bingo!

A lot of the job of getting that half-bath is permits, inspections, estimates,
coordinations, etc., too.

The topic is
how various folk who come from different educational, training and
employment backgrounds approach the technical aspects of pulling off
non-commercial stunts like sending homebrewed electronics packages to
100,000 feet with a balloon.

OK.

Seasoned technical types degreed and
otherwise learn out in the college of hard knocks how to plan and
execute projects in highly systematic manners because when money is
involved the project better be pulled off properly or yer outta work.

Which is not the same factor here.

In business if ya signed the contract to deliver X on date Y, you better do
it
or bad things will happen. In this balloon thing, a delay of weeks or
months is
no big deal if the result is success rather than failure.

That's the incentive. Beyond that we is what we is and we don't change
our stripes when we get involved in the planning of off-hours
volunteer efforts or our hobbies.

Maybe *you* don't.

People need to differentiate between work and play. Those who can't get
grumpy! ;^)

Yup. Particularly with volunteer labor: they can just tell you where to shove
the helium hose, and then they walk away. Few of us can do that in our work
life.

Wherein come the clashes with the
non-technical types we get involved with on joint efforts. Pick any
mid-to-large scale Field Day planning session around here for a
perfect example.

You might wanna look up how the CP folks did...

Send the non-technical types to me. I don't differentiate between them
and what is apparently the first class Hams. Perhaps they will learn,
and eventually become technical types.

The "CP folks" referred to were a classic case of nonplanners. There's a casual
approach and then there's carelessness. A few good folks did 90+% of the work
and the rest watched.

73 de Jim, N2EY