3rd party agreement question
 

Hi gang!

I just had an interesting question pop into my head; one to which I have no
answer.

I have a couple of friends in British Columbia. Both are licensed hams and
I've left messages for one of them with his father (the other licensed ham)
as he is not within repeater contact.

I noticed our agreement with England includes only special event stations.
Should I have two friends in England and both were amateur radio operators,
could I legally ask for one to pass a message to the other to meet on a
particular repeater? This would *not* be with a special event station.
Would passing traffic through a ham to another ham be considered 3rd party?

No, I'm not trying it, I'm just curious as to what would constitute 3rd
party traffic.


Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

JAMES HAMPTON wrote:
Hi gang!

I just had an interesting question pop into my head; one to which I have no
answer.

I have a couple of friends in British Columbia. Both are licensed hams and
I've left messages for one of them with his father (the other licensed ham)
as he is not within repeater contact.

I noticed our agreement with England includes only special event stations.
Should I have two friends in England and both were amateur radio operators,
could I legally ask for one to pass a message to the other to meet on a
particular repeater? This would *not* be with a special event station.
Would passing traffic through a ham to another ham be considered 3rd party?

No, I'm not trying it, I'm just curious as to what would constitute 3rd
party traffic.


Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

When all else fails, you might read 97.115:

Sec. 97.115 Third party communications.

(a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
(1) Any station within the jurisdiction of the United States.
(2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
whose administration has made arrangements with the United States to
allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting international
communications on behalf of third parties. No station shall transmit
messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any
foreign government whose administration has not made such an
arrangement. This prohibition does not apply to a message for any third
party who is eligible to be a control operator of the station.


Notice the last sentence.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:31:37 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Should I have two friends in England and both were amateur radio operators,
could I legally ask for one to pass a message to the other to meet on a
particular repeater? This would *not* be with a special event station.
Would passing traffic through a ham to another ham be considered 3rd party?

This prohibition [against passing third-party traffic with a
statsion whose Licensing Administration does not have an a
third-party traffic agreement with the US] does not apply to a
message for any third party who is eligible to be a control
operator of the station.

Notice the last sentence.

That would make it OK if the message was from the UK ham through
a US ham to another US hams, because FCC rules are applicable
only to stations authorized by the FCC by specific or blanket
license.

I really don't know if in the UK, a similar permission exists
and whether the "second" operator can be designated as a control
operator of the "first" ham's station. Some Administrations
allow this, others do not.

Perhaps Alun (who holds a UK licence) can enlighten us.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

wrote in message
...
JAMES HAMPTON wrote:
Hi gang!

I just had an interesting question pop into my head; one to which I have
no
answer.

I have a couple of friends in British Columbia. Both are licensed hams
and
I've left messages for one of them with his father (the other licensed
ham)
as he is not within repeater contact.

I noticed our agreement with England includes only special event
stations.
Should I have two friends in England and both were amateur radio
operators,
could I legally ask for one to pass a message to the other to meet on a
particular repeater? This would *not* be with a special event station.
Would passing traffic through a ham to another ham be considered 3rd
party?

No, I'm not trying it, I'm just curious as to what would constitute 3rd
party traffic.


Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

When all else fails, you might read 97.115:

Sec. 97.115 Third party communications.

(a) An amateur station may transmit messages for a third party to:
(1) Any station within the jurisdiction of the United States.
(2) Any station within the jurisdiction of any foreign government
whose administration has made arrangements with the United States to
allow amateur stations to be used for transmitting international
communications on behalf of third parties. No station shall transmit
messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any
foreign government whose administration has not made such an
arrangement. This prohibition does not apply to a message for any third
party who is eligible to be a control operator of the station.


Notice the last sentence.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

Hello, Jim

Interesting - and it might prove real interesting for a message for a tech
given the message on HF voice from another country ....(!) ... it might get
knotty ... if the station is in the novice portion of the cw band on hf and
running 200 watts or less, then a tech with code might be able to receive
the message .... if not .... hmmm ....

Yet another big gap in regulations ....

I can see there is no clear answer (yet) to my query.



Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:31:37 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Should I have two friends in England and both were amateur radio
operators,
could I legally ask for one to pass a message to the other to meet on a
particular repeater? This would *not* be with a special event station.
Would passing traffic through a ham to another ham be considered 3rd
party?

This prohibition [against passing third-party traffic with a
statsion whose Licensing Administration does not have an a
third-party traffic agreement with the US] does not apply to a
message for any third party who is eligible to be a control
operator of the station.

Notice the last sentence.

That would make it OK if the message was from the UK ham through
a US ham to another US hams, because FCC rules are applicable
only to stations authorized by the FCC by specific or blanket
license.

I really don't know if in the UK, a similar permission exists
and whether the "second" operator can be designated as a control
operator of the "first" ham's station. Some Administrations
allow this, others do not.

Perhaps Alun (who holds a UK licence) can enlighten us.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Hello, Phil

I'm sure you'll note the answer I made to the reply. Since not all licensed
amateur might be able to be the control operator of the station based upon
individual circumstances (such as mode, band, etc.), this could prove
interesting.


Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

pasta with romano cheese.



Southern Fried Small-fry

Tastes like fried chicken, which works just as well.
In fact you may want to practice cutting up whole chickens
for frying before you go for the real thing.
Whole chicken is much more efficient and inexpensive than buying pieces.

1 tiny human, cut into pieces
2 cups flour
Onion, garlic
Salt
pepper
garlic powder
cayenne pepper
hot sauce, etc.
Oil for frying

Mix milk, eggs, hot sauce in a bowl, add chopped onion and garlic.
Season the meat liberally, and marinate for several hours.
Place seasoned flour in a paper or plastic shopping bag,
drop pieces in a few a time, shake to coat thoroughly,
then deep fry in hot oil (350°) for about 15 minutes.
Drain and place on paper towels.



Miscarriage with Mustard Greens

Why waste it? Otherwise, and in general, use ham or salt pork to season greens.
The technique of smothering greens can be used with many vegetables;
green beans work especially well. Meat is not necessary every day, don?t
be afraid to alter any dish to vegetarian tastes.

1 premature baby, born dead
Large bunch of mustard greens
2 white onions, 1 cup chopped celery
Vegetable oil (or hog fat)
Salt, pepper, garlic, etc.

Lightly brown onions, celery, garlic and meat in large heavy pot.
Add a little water and the greens (which should be thoroughly cleaned and washed).
Smother slowly for at least 2 hours, adding small amounts of water
when it starts to stick.
Stir frequently.
When ready - serve with rice, grilled smoked sausage, green salad, and iced tea.

black pepper

Season and sauté the cutlets in olive oil till golden brown, remove.
Add the garlic and onions and cook down a bit.
Add some lemon juice and some zest, then de-glaze with stock.
Add a little cornstarch (dissolved in cold water) to the sauce.
You are just about there, Pour the sauce over the cutlets,
top with parsley, lemon slices and cracked pepper.
Serve with spinach salad, macaroni and cheese (homemade) and iced tea...



Spaghetti with Real Italian Meatballs

If you don?t have an expendable bambino on hand,
you can use a pound of ground pork instead.
The secret to great meatballs, is to use very lean meat.

1 lb. ground flesh; human or pork
3 lb. ground beef
1 cup finely chopped onions
7 - 12 cloves garlic
1 cup seasoned bread crumbs
½ cup milk, 2 eggs
Oregano
basil
salt
pepper
Italian seasoning, etc.
Tomato gravy (see index)
Fresh or at least freshly cooked spaghetti or other pasta

Mix the ground meats together in a large bowl,
then mix each of the other ingredients.
Make balls about the size of a baby?s fist
(there should be one lying around for reference).
Bake at 400°for about 25 minutes -
or you could fry them in olive oil.
Place the meatballs in the tomato gravy, and simmer for several hours.
Serve on spaghetti.
Accompany with green salad, garlic bread and red wine.



Newborn Parmesan

This classic S

breast side up in a large metal roasting pan.
Bake in 325° oven covered for 2 hours.
Remove cover, stick a cooking thermometer deep into one of the
baby?s buttocks and cook uncovered till thermometer reads 190°,
about another hour.



Pro-Choice Po-Boy

Soft-shelled crabs serve just as well in this classic southern delicacy.
The sandwich originated in New Orleans, where an abundance of abortion clinics
thrive and hot French bread is always available.

2 cleaned fetuses, head on
2 eggs
1 tablespoon yellow mustard
1 cup seasoned flour
oil enough for deep frying
1 loaf French bread
Lettuce
tomatoes
mayonnaise, etc.

Marinate the fetuses in the egg-mustard mixture.
Dredge thoroughly in flour.
Fry at 375° until crispy golden brown.
Remove and place on paper towels.



Holiday Youngster

One can easily adapt this recipe to ham, though as presented,
it violates no religious taboos against swine.

1 large toddler or small child, cleaned and de-headed
Kentucky Bourbon Sauce (see index)
1 large can pineapple slices
Whole cloves

Place him (or ham) or her in a large glass baking dish, buttocks up.
Tie with butcher string around and across so that he looks like
he?s crawling.
Glaze, then arrange pineapples and secure with cloves.
Bake uncovered in 350° oven till thermometer reaches 160°.



Cajun Babies

Just like crabs or crawfish, babies are boiled alive!
You don?t need silverware, the hot spicy meat comes off in your hands.

6 live babies
1 lb. smoked sausa

When ready - serve with rice, grilled smoked sausage, green salad, and iced tea.
Coffee and apple pie then brandy.



Maternity Ward Pot Luck Dinner

If you can?t get anything fresh from the hospital, nursery, or morgue;
you can at least get rid of all the leftovers in your refrigerator.

1 - 2 lbs. cubed meat (human flesh, chicken, turkey, beef...)
1 -2 lbs. coarsely chopped vegetables
(carrots, potatoes, turnips, cauliflower, cabbage...)
Bell pepper
onions
garlic
ginger
salt pepper, etc.
Olive oil
butter

Brown the meat and some chopped onions, peppers, and garilic in olive oil,
place in baking dish, layer with vegetables seasoning and butter.
Bake at 325° for 30 - 45 minutes.
Serve with hot dinner rolls, fruit salad and sparkling water.



Bébé Buffet 1

Show off with whole roasted children replete with apples in mouths -
and babies? heads stuffed with wild rice. Or keep it simple with a
hearty main course such as stew, lasagna, or meat loaf.

Some suggestions

Pre-mie pot pies, beef stew, leg of lamb, stuffed chicken, roast pork spiral ham,
Cranberry pineapple salad, sweet potato

j No station shall transmit
messages for a third party to any station within the jurisdiction of any
foreign government whose administration has not made such an
arrangement. This prohibition does not apply to a message for any third
party who is eligible to be a control operator of the station.


Usually if the foreign government owns the phone company
there, they say that you can't do it. Suprizingly many
of the communist dictatorships do allow 3rd party comms.
But the hams in such would probably be taken out back and
shot if they did pass a message to a 3rd party saying
"Communism sucks".