EU: Europe just lost a Primary Amateur Radio Band
 

Today Europe lost an Amateur Radio Band to "licence-excempt"
time-limited use by automotive short range radar equipment.
see:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/24ghz/
(have your say before 23rd May !!!!!!!!!)

It's the first nail in the coffin for the UK Amateur Radio. The Funeral
is now set for 26th May 2005 when a consultaion on the future of UK
amateur radio licensing is published which will contain the question on
fully deregulating amateur radio in the United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland (UK):

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/i...ur/forthcoming


or ( http://tinyurl.com/8pvxw )

"..For the avoidance of doubt, whilst the formal public consultation
will put forward a number of other options for the future, those
options are explicitly not recommended by Ofcom. Specifically, Ofcom
will not recommend any options to make the amateur radio service WT Act
licence-exempt; however, for transparency and completeness, this will
be put forward as an option in the public consultation in order to
gather the community's views ....."

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK could soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no exams, no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no exams, no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...


24GHz, huh? What's that?


The 1.2cm band --- see 97.301(a).

73, de Hans, K0HB

I expect it will be blamed on the War Against Terrorism.

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no exams, no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

The thin end of the wedge my boy, thats what it is.
Brian

Specifically, Ofcom will NOT recommend any options to make the amateur
radio
service WT Act licence-exempt; however, for transparency and completeness,
this will
be put forward as an option in the public consultation in order to
gather the community's views ....."

How the hell does the above translate into this...

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK could soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no exams, no
callsigns, just CB!

Licence exempt - with 150W DC in (400w pep) - never in a million years..
I would think every single organisation with an interest in the radio
spectrum
would object.

Woody..

"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...



24GHz, huh? What's that?


Only a cber would ask a stupid question like that.

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:43:49 +0100, Woody wrote:

Specifically, Ofcom will NOT recommend any options to make
the amateur radio service WT Act licence-exempt; however, for
transparency and completeness, this will be put forward as an
option in the public consultation in order to gather the
community's views ....."

How the hell does the above translate into this...

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK could soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no exams, no
callsigns, just CB!

The one translates into the other via the last part of the first item
you quoted, which, again, is "...however, for transparency and
completeness, this will be put forward as an option in the public
consultation in order to gather the community's views."

Although there can be little doubt about the nature of the special
pleading by NuRSGB in its meeting with OFCOM, the latter have well and
truly shafted the former by going ahead anyway. That the final wording
might say "specifically not recommended", the proposal is nevertheless
on the table for "the community" to comment on. That is, if someone
wants a deregulated Amateur Radio system in this country, they can
write in and ask for it. If OFCOM get enough of these, then they may
feel that that is enough authority on which to go ahead.

Stand by for yet more special pleading from NuRSGB, as they see the
concept of The Governing Body of Amateur Radio slipping from their
grasp. HTH
--
from
Aero Spike

Spike wrote:

Although there can be little doubt about the nature of the special
pleading by NuRSGB in its meeting with OFCOM, the latter have well and
truly shafted the former by going ahead anyway. That the final wording
might say "specifically not recommended", the proposal is nevertheless
on the table for "the community" to comment on. That is, if someone
wants a deregulated Amateur Radio system in this country, they can
write in and ask for it. If OFCOM get enough of these, then they may
feel that that is enough authority on which to go ahead.


Do I take it then that you would support the idea
of making Amateur Radio bands licence exempt?

bb wrote:
G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no exams,
no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

Why am I not surprised?

Steve, K4YZ

Brian wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK
could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no
exams, no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

The thin end of the wedge my boy, thats what it is.

That it is, Sir, that it is...However it's a rusty wedge, becasue
that's been the history of the Amateur Service (at least here in the
Colonies) since the inception of Radio.

Everytime it's been in the best COMMERCIAL interests to do so,
Amateurs were moverd higher and higher up the spectrum until those very
same commercial interests decided they were ready to populate those
same higher bands.

And truth be said, just how much use are we (Amateurs) making of
those bands? There's probably not even 100 guys here in the States
that make use of those bands, and even if the number is 10 times that,
it still doesn't warrant holding them back for development.

Oh, I certainly believe we need to hold some slices open for
Amateur and experimentals, but the bottom line is that it's unrealistic
to expect that that amount of "radio real estate" would be held for our
exclusive use.

73

Steve, K4YZ


Brian

You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP address
range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?

It's a question that is going to be asked in May's consultation.

G1LVN wrote:
You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP
address
range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?

I'm not sure if that was meant for me (no attributes), but no Sir,
we certainly don't have to surrender an internet address....We can
create new addresses as the circumstances and technology allow.

The electromagnetic spectrum is a very finite resource, however,
and we'll be hard pressed to defend some of our allocations with as
little use as they are getting.

I can't speak for you fellows on that side of the Atlantic,
however I know that any use of the bands above 2.3Ghz on this side is
very rare. I think we will be lucky to maintain even sharing
arangements in the future, let alone keep exclusive allocations.

73

Steve, K4YZ
Winchester, TN

Joe wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...



24GHz, huh? What's that?


Only a cber would ask a stupid question like that.

"billybeeper" is Brian, N0IMD, Joe. You'll please excuse him as
he's prone to unfounded assertions and otherwise dumb expressions in
public display. I doubt he was even aware he was responding to posts
made in Eurpoe.

We keep trying to re-direct him, but there's only so much you can
do with a child-like mind.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

Brian wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...

G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK
could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no
exams, no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

The thin end of the wedge my boy, thats what it is.

That it is, Sir, that it is...However it's a rusty wedge, becasue
that's been the history of the Amateur Service (at least here in the
Colonies) since the inception of Radio.

Everytime it's been in the best COMMERCIAL interests to do so,
Amateurs were moverd higher and higher up the spectrum until those very
same commercial interests decided they were ready to populate those
same higher bands.

And truth be said, just how much use are we (Amateurs) making of
those bands? There's probably not even 100 guys here in the States
that make use of those bands, and even if the number is 10 times that,
it still doesn't warrant holding them back for development.

Oh, I certainly believe we need to hold some slices open for
Amateur and experimentals, but the bottom line is that it's unrealistic
to expect that that amount of "radio real estate" would be held for our
exclusive use.

73

Steve, K4YZ


Well history has revealed that radio amateurs were pushed further up the
frequency scale simply because they (the authorities) thought it was of no
use commercially. Look at Short Wave, it was the radio amateurs who
discovered that one could work the world on short waves. Radio amateurs who
discovered (or was it invented) SSB. Now of course there are fewer things
for us radio amateurs to give the world (for free of course) so our
existance is tolerated. However it looks like that tolerance (at least in
the UK) is about to be curtailed.
Brian

Reg Edwards wrote:
I expect it will be blamed on the War Against Terrorism.


Nope, its the liberals. Everything is the liberals........ ;^)


- Mike KB3EIA -

Michael Coslo wrote in news:d4b254$10o2$1
@f04n12.cac.psu.edu:

Reg Edwards wrote:
I expect it will be blamed on the War Against Terrorism.


Nope, its the liberals. Everything is the liberals........ ;^)


- Mike KB3EIA -



Not in Europe - we are the liberals!

G1LVN wrote:
You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP
address
range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?

Are you active on 24GHz?

Joe wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...



24GHz, huh? What's that?


Only a cber would ask a stupid question like that.

Are you active on 24 GHz?

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK
could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no
exams,
no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

Why am I not surprised?

Surprise me. Tell us about your 24 GHz set-up. Hi!

Woody wrote:
Specifically, Ofcom will NOT recommend any options to make the
amateur
radio
service WT Act licence-exempt; however, for transparency and
completeness,
this will
be put forward as an option in the public consultation in order to
gather the community's views ....."

How the hell does the above translate into this...

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no exams,
no
callsigns, just CB!

Licence exempt - with 150W DC in (400w pep) - never in a million
years..
I would think every single organisation with an interest in the radio
spectrum
would object.

Woody..

Woody, tell us about your 24 GHz rig.

Well history has revealed that radio amateurs were pushed further up
the
frequency scale simply because they (the authorities) thought it was
of no
use commercially. Look at Short Wave, it was the radio amateurs who
discovered that one could work the world on short waves. Radio
amateurs who
discovered (or was it invented) SSB.

I don't know who invented SSB but it was in use for a number of years
commercially before it first appeared in the amateur bands.

Now of course there are fewer things
for us radio amateurs to give the world (for free of course) so our
existance is tolerated. However it looks like that tolerance (at
least in
the UK) is about to be curtailed.
Brian

There's an old adage out there which applies here, "Use it or lose it".
There's no point to complaining about losing allocations if we don't
use them. Which is the case with 24Ghz and we did it to ourselves.

w3rv

wrote


There's an old adage out there which applies here, "Use it or lose it".
There's no point to complaining about losing allocations if we don't
use them. Which is the case with 24Ghz and we did it to ourselves.


§97.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio
service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

.. . . . . (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to
contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

Which is a more valuable "Use" of spectrum.... 5,000 appliances operators on
wall-to-wall Lumbago Nets on 75-meters, or 5 guys designing world-class antennas
and low-noise preamps in order to work the EME path on 24-Ghz?

73, de Hans, K0HB

bb wrote:
Joe wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...



24GHz, huh? What's that?


Only a cber would ask a stupid question like that.

Are you active on 24 GHz?

Does he need to be to point out that your question was stupid?

Steve, K4YZ

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK
could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no
exams,
no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

Why am I not surprised?

Surprise me. Tell us about your 24 GHz set-up.

Where did I say I had one, Brian?

You asked an idiotic question, Brian. It deserved the prod.

Steve, K4YZ

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote


There's an old adage out there which applies here, "Use it or lose
it".
There's no point to complaining about losing allocations if we
don't
use them. Which is the case with 24Ghz and we did it to ourselves.


=A797.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an
amateur radio
service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following
principles:

. . . . . (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven
ability to
contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

Nice warmy fuzzy regulatory platitude conjured up back when amateur
radio was a major player in what was back then considered the DC to
daylight RF spectrum. Which is obviously no longer the case. Back when
ham radio actually made some noteworthy contributions to the state of
the RF comms arts. When was the last time that happened? 1920?

Which is a more valuable "Use" of spectrum.... 5,000 appliances
operators on
wall-to-wall Lumbago Nets on 75-meters,

No counter, apples and oranges, has nothing to with "use or lose". The
HF ham bands are not under any particular allocation threats today
because (in the U.S) the Verizons, Nextels and (globally) the "public
interest" no longer have big (if any) stakes in the HF spectrum so no
sweat for the GeezerNet allocations. Let 'em roll, nobody cares
including the regulators.

But as has been clearly demonstrated any number of times since WW2 the
ham bands above 50 Mhz have been increasingly threatened species as the
stakes have moved up the spectrum and have grown exponentially to the
point where ham radio is now barely a bit player on frequencies above
470 Mhz. The dumbest strategy we could lean on to our preserve our
allocations is to depend on our long since worn out old 97.1b nonsense
and it's equivalents in the US/UK/EU/ITU etc.

The only real defense we have today for retaining our high bands is
occupancy, the potential for emergency ops and a lot licensed voters
screaming at the regulatory agencies about screwing with our hobby.
Screaming oddly enough seems to work to at least some extent as
witnessed by the impact ham radio had on the recent brawl over BPL/PLC
here in the States.

or 5 guys designing world-class antennas
and low-noise preamps in order to work the EME path on 24-Ghz?

EME has been around since 1947 and nobody has shown a bit of interest
in commercializing it 24 Ghz and otherwise. As you well know nobody
"needs" to use a half million mile bounce path to work down preamp
noise figures on any frequency. =20

=20
73, de Hans, K0HB

w3rv

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
G1LVN wrote:

Looks like 100 years plus of amateur radio history in the UK
could
soon
go the same way as the 24GHz band i.e. licence excempt - no
exams,
no
callsigns, just CB!


--73deG1LVN
www.dutchhousemob.co.uk

24GHz, huh? What's that?

Why am I not surprised?

Surprise me. Tell us about your 24 GHz set-up.

Where did I say I had one, Brian?

You asked an idiotic question, Brian. It deserved the prod.

So I ask another idiotic question: What is your 24 GHz set-up?

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
Joe wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...



24GHz, huh? What's that?


Only a cber would ask a stupid question like that.

Are you active on 24 GHz?

Does he need to be to point out that your question was stupid?

Steve, K4YZ

"Woe is me, woe is me! I'm about to lose something that I've never
used and likely will never use."

So Steve, tell us about your 24 GHz rig.

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
Joe wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...



24GHz, huh? What's that?


Only a cber would ask a stupid question like that.

Are you active on 24 GHz?

Does he need to be to point out that your question was stupid?

Steve, K4YZ

"Woe is me, woe is me! I'm about to lose something that I've never
used and likely will never use."

So Steve, tell us about your 24 GHz rig.

I never said I have one, Brain...

Or is that something else you missed today...?!?!

Sheeeesh....

Steve, K4YZ

"bb" wrote:

:
: G1LVN wrote:
: You'll be saying we have to give back the internet 44.x.x.x IP
: address
: range next, OM. We could probably get $billions for a Class A
: allocation like that. Yet we don't do we?
:
: Are you active on 24GHz?
:

maybe not yet...but he will /M soon enough :-)

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
Joe wrote:
"bb" wrote in message
ups.com...



24GHz, huh? What's that?


Only a cber would ask a stupid question like that.

Are you active on 24 GHz?

Does he need to be to point out that your question was
stupid?

Steve, K4YZ

"Woe is me, woe is me! I'm about to lose something that I've never
used and likely will never use."

So Steve, tell us about your 24 GHz rig.

I never said I have one, Brain...

Do you also call in "stolen vehicle" reports on cars you've never
owned? Missing persons on peole you've never known?

"Woe is me!"

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

I never said I have one, Brain...

Do you also call in "stolen vehicle" reports on cars you've never
owned? Missing persons on peole you've never known?

"Woe is me!"

You're still chasing the wrong tail, Brain...

Not that THAT is unusual....

Steve, K4YZ

On 22 Apr 2005 05:06:30 -0700, "K4YZ" wrote:

I know that any use of the bands above 2.3Ghz on this side is
very rare. I think we will be lucky to maintain even sharing
arangements in the future, let alone keep exclusive allocations.

Not so! I've attended several Microwave Update conventions in the USA
and always come away thinking how keen and act

Check the websites of the varous US microwave groups and you'll see
that these bands have lots of activity ... especially up to 10GHz and
increasingly to 47GHz and above.

Try www.ntms.org as a starter!

Peter, G3PHO

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

I never said I have one, Brain...

Do you also call in "stolen vehicle" reports on cars you've never
owned? Missing persons on peole you've never known?

"Woe is me!"

You're still chasing the wrong tail, Brain...

Not that THAT is unusual....

Steve, K4YZ

Caught you lying enough that my instincts are pretty good.

So you're crying "Woe is me" over the Brits loosing a band that you've
never made a single amateur transmission on??? Has W4 land and G-land
even made a 2M QSO yet?

Hi! You are as ridiculous as God has ever made a person.

Why don't we hold a raffle and at a buck a ticket, find some Central
State's VHFfer, preferably a lowly Technician, who will -allow you- to
use his 24GHz gear so you can be that Superior Extra that you've
claimed to be for years. You just might be able to earn a Civil Air
Patrol medal for you singularly in-distinctive accomplishment. Hi!

You lying sack of excrement.