"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...

My attitude toward many of the current crop of new techs is one bathed
upon five years observation, since returning to the U.S. I haven't
chased
them anywhere. In fact, it has been just the opposite. I've tried to
encourage them to use simplex on FM. I've tried to encourage them to
try
6 meters along with 432 and 144 MHz SSB and CW. I can't be faulted
that
they don't act after being encouraged. If these folks are, in fact
"trapped" in a world of 2m only FM repeater operation, they have
fashioned
the trap themselves by not being more curious about the rest of VHF/UHF
amateur radio. There are avenues open to them but they aren't
participating.

Dave K8MN


Man does that say it all in a well articulated paragraph. Valid points
out
there
in tech land.

The Technician ticket originally was envisioned to enable those that had
a
technical
slant that needed a place to play on the "air". It has degenerated
into
a
defacto
"entry level" to present day Ham Radio. What a bummer.

I bet a lot of those out there don't know that the original Tech written
was
exactly
the same as the General. The ONLY difference was the General had a 13
WPM
cw test. Send and Receive. And the Tech had a 5wpm......and was
available
by
mail.

Dan/W4NTI



Hello, Dan

Been there, didn't want that T-shirt. The danger back when was that if
you
couldn't pass the 13 WPM, you had two choices: one was work on your code
while the other was to take the tech.

Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license
when
they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air
(back
when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2
meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as
a
tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends
might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all
that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really
wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then.

The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued
for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a
while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I
was
good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to
take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC).

Of course, there were those that were only interested in VHF and above.
Moonbounce was just starting to happen and dx records at 1.2 GHz and above
were likely measured in miles. Not many. A very low noise pre-amp on 440
MHz probably had a 4.5 dB noise figure. Once you headed into microwaves,
you simply had a diode mixer front end and not only noise, but signal loss
as well. Not at all like today. Most vacuum tubes had interelectrode
capacitances and delays in getting electrons across the void that
prohibited
most from operation much above 500 MHz. There were lighthouse tubes,
travelling wave tubes, and others (I had a couple of gizmos that looked
like
Sputnik. I never knew what they were intended for LOL).

Funny thing is that if you do get to a reasonable level of code
proficiency
(as required by the General class and above back when) there was yet
another
danger: you just might enjoy it )


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA




Yep indeed....it was "up or out". Novice good for 1 year, non renewable
and can't get it again. Talk about incentive licensing.

A very good friend mine, Ray, K8DEN recently passed away. I am so happy
he finally was able to get on HF. Thats right as a 5wpm General. He was
like you said, just could NOT learn the code. Whether physical or mental I
don't know.

Yes indeed VHF back then was tough. But it was fun. I had it both ways. I
was on CW on HF and phone on 2m AM. Loved them both.

It is much easier for the beginning ham now than it was for us Jim. Perhaps
it is too easy and that is the problem.

Dan/W4NTI

From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46


"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when
they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air (back
when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2
meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a
tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends
might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all
that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really
wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then.

When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a
non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or
temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles...

The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued
for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a
while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was
good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to
take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC).

So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for
my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way.

Of course, there were those that were only interested in VHF and above.

The Army's Project Diana proved the feasibility of moonbounce
right after WW2. 70 to 90 MHz and 250 MHz VHF radio relay was
already operational at that time and capable of working 24/7.
Aircraft radios were already up in VHF via the SCR-522 and the
last versions of the ARC-5 sets. Many, many VHF radios for
vehicular mobile were working away, first for the military during
WW2 and a few police departments before WW2...FM of course. TV
broadcast had already begun right after WW2 on VHF and production
was beginning to ramp up for the virtual explosion in set making
for ordinary consumers. AT&T was planning the microwave links
that would span the country and making the prototypes in the lab.
FM broadcast had already started on low VHF and was reassigned
at double the frequency after WW2. Consumers could get "AM/FM"
table model radios off the shelf. Raytheon near Santa Barbara,
CA, was testing something new called a "Radarange" that would
shortly afterwards evolve into a microwave oven...and would be
sold entire (big mistake financially) to Amana. All that taking
place in the latter half of the 1940s.

USA amateur radio was all about "working DX on HF with CW" at
the same time...real "radio pioneering." Read all about it in
library copies of QST.


Moonbounce was just starting to happen and dx records at 1.2 GHz and above
were likely measured in miles. Not many. A very low noise pre-amp on 440
MHz probably had a 4.5 dB noise figure. Once you headed into microwaves,
you simply had a diode mixer front end and not only noise, but signal loss
as well. Not at all like today. Most vacuum tubes had interelectrode
capacitances and delays in getting electrons across the void that prohibited
most from operation much above 500 MHz. There were lighthouse tubes,
travelling wave tubes, and others (I had a couple of gizmos that looked like
Sputnik. I never knew what they were intended for LOL).

Vacuum tube transit time was an already known phenomenon prior
to WW2. A magnetron was a vacuum diode...it's path from cathode
to plate(s) was MUCH longer than a wavelength at 10 GHz yet it
worked quite well at high-KW power levels. TWTs were a post-WW2
innovation and were already flying in the McDonnell "Quail" decoy
missles in 1958. GE and others were already using inverted
lighthouse 2C39s at 1.8 GHz in 1953 for multichannel radio relay.

Funny thing is that if you do get to a reasonable level of code proficiency
(as required by the General class and above back when) there was yet another
danger: you just might enjoy it )

The olde-fahrts in ham radio had already decreed that amateurs
had to begin as they did in the 20s and 30s...working to make
sure the rules would make all newcomers do AS THEY HAD TO DO.
"Excellence" in ham radio of the 40s and 50s was radiotelegraphy
on HF...as it is a half century later. [olde-fahrts breed other
olde-fahrts in some strange twist on perverse Darwinism]

Communications carriers were ALREADY ESTABLISHED on HF prior to
WW2, including SSB (but at a wider format of 12 KHz BW for SSB).
The Solar cycle was known as was the ionosphere (courtesy of the
academics, not the amateurs) and all that remained post-WW2 was
to study more intimate details of the ionospheric layers...which
was mapped by commercially-made ionospheric sounders.

Returning veterans were busy at the Legion Halls, telling stories
of radio derring-do "during the WAR" with CW saving the day, etc.
The more alcohol intake, the greater their telegraphic "heroism"
became. Pretty soon they were all "sending intel from behind
enemy lines with CW" until tossed out of the Hall at closing.
That dip****ness kept on with some all the way to 1991, including
one in here whose "son did that in the first Gulf War." BS.


Yep indeed....it was "up or out". Novice good for 1 year, non renewable
and can't get it again. Talk about incentive licensing.

INCENTIVE! WORK HARD! SHOW DEDICATION AND COMMITTMENT TO THE
AMATEUR COMMUNITY!!!

For WHAT? A HOBBY? A recreation? A passtime?

Prior to 1956 ANYONE could go to an FCC Field Office and take
a First Class exam for a COMMERCIAL license for WORK. None of
that hoop-jumping of union-enforced "skill levels" and "going
through the ranks" bull****. For money-paying WORK.

No, the HOBBY rules HAD to be like some union hall or guild or
craftsmanlike apprentice-journeyman-master with CW being the
ultimate "skill." A bunch of olde-fahrt-inspired "rules" of
PRETENSE AT EXPERTISE AS IF THEY WERE "AT WORK." Hobbyists,
making like they were pros. Make-believe.

A very good friend mine, Ray, K8DEN recently passed away. I am so happy
he finally was able to get on HF. Thats right as a 5wpm General. He was
like you said, just could NOT learn the code. Whether physical or mental I
don't know.

Sorry, that's NOT GOOD ENOUGH. In order to DEDICATION AND
COMMITTMENT TO THE AMATEUR COMMUNITY AND THE "SERVICE" one
*MUST* show morsemanship of high rates. According to all these
"radio experts" in hamdom, ANYONE CAN LEARN THE CODE!

WORK HARD FOR A HOBBY! Make CW your prime committment in life!

Radiotelegraphy is EVERYTHING in amateur radio!!!


...then was tough. But it was fun. I had it both ways.

[we aren't interested in your early sex life...]


It is much easier for the beginning ham now than it was for us Jim. Perhaps
it is too easy and that is the problem.

AWWWWWWW...... Poor babies...you WORKED SO HARD, ALL THE EFFORT,
SWEAT, STRAIN, STRESS and now nobody respects your mighty
accomplishments of overcoming pre-WW2 standards and practices in
a HOBBY RADIO!!!

I can wear out my ticket punch on all your TS cards, southern-
fried Einstein, but I'll toss 'em right back in your florid face.

Fifty-two years ago I and two other newbies got one afternoon's
"schooling" on QSYing a 1 KW HF transmitter. Do this, do that,
all without having done it before. See MSgt Ouye for manuals on
"how it works." One HF transmitter out of three dozen ranging up
to 15 KW at that time (bigger ones to come). 24/7 operation for
a headquarters command, the Korean War still going. We all
learned that and more, did our thing. No stories, no phony
braggart herioism. This was WORK. Wanna be better? OK, just
grab a TM and study. Nobody gets neat certificates suitable for
framing, no "high scores" in "contests," no "personal callsigns"
to make out like we were "big shots." We just kept the messages
going through. 24/7 on HF.

OH! how "tough" you AMATEURS had it! How you must have suffered!
Nobody worked as hard for a HOBBY as you mighty morsemen did!

Have you considered Grief Counseling, mighty troubled warrior
of the AMATEUR airwaves?

wrote:
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46


"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when
they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air (back
when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2
meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a
tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends
might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all
that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really
wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then.

When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a
non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or
temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles...

The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't
familiar with VHF.

The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued
for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a
while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was
good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to
take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC).

So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for
my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way.

Aha! Gotcha!

You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in
distance!!!

bb wrote:

wrote:

From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46



"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when
they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air (back
when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2
meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a
tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends
might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all
that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really
wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then.

When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a
non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or
temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles...


The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't
familiar with VHF.


The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued
for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a
while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was
good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to
take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC).

So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for
my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way.


Aha! Gotcha!

You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in
distance!!!

I like train rides!

- Mikey -

Extra lite extraordinaire

Michael Coslo wrote:
bb wrote:

wrote:

From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46



"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when
they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air (back
when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2
meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a
tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends
might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all
that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really
wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then.

When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a
non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or
temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles...


The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't
familiar with VHF.


The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued
for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a
while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was
good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to
take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC).

So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for
my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way.


Aha! Gotcha!

You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in
distance!!!

I like train rides!

- Mikey -

Extra lite extraordinaire

Toot toot!

From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:15


wrote:
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message

Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when
they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air back
when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2
meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a
tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends
might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all
that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really
wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then.

When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a
non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or
temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles...

The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't
familiar with VHF.

"Familiarity with VHF" wasn't needed. ALL that counted was getting
the morse code speed UP...that yielded absolute knowledge of all
theory thus guaranteeing rank-status-privilege.

I designed and built an external VFO for a few Sixers. Worked fine.
One of the recipients was showing an olde-fahrt extra how it
operated and olde-fahrt said "Nice, did you build it?" "No," said
my friend and, pointing to me, "He did." "THAT'S ILLEGAL!" shouted
the olde-fahrt. Heh heh heh...the same anal attitudes existed four
decades ago as they do now.

The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued
for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a
while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was
good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to
take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC).

So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for
my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way.

Aha! Gotcha!

You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in
distance!!!

Heh heh heh. In northern Illinois the elevation changes amount
to +/- a yard. Not even close to bragging rights... :-)

However, to kill time waiting for the return train, I saw a
matinee of "Oklahoma." Sat in the balcony, undisturbed. That
was good for a change of a couple stories in height! :-)

Too bad it was a sunny day in Chicago. No snow to brag to
anyone ("uphill both ways through"). Passed no problem,
even with the interruption of a fire drill in the Federal
Building halfway through the test.

[a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking
about on this subject...they weren't here to see some of the
astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and
others in here]

wrote:

[a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking
about on this subject...

Why should they be any different than you, Lennie...?!?!

they weren't here to see some of the
astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and
others in here]

It ain't bragging if ya done it.

He was a code tested 20WPM Extra...

You...?!?!? Well, you're not even an NCT...Can't hack a test that
gradeschoolers pass with regularity.

Some "radio electronics professional".

Steve, K4YZ

wrote:
From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:15


wrote:
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message

Some folks back then wanted the General but settled for a tech license when
they couldn't pass muster at 13. Unfortunately, if you got on the air back
when, 2 meters was the novice voice band to try and get more activity on 2
meters!) it was possible to *never* work on the code and you were stuck as a
tech. Most likely 6 meters was the band of choice as the best front ends
might have had a 4.5 dB noise figure on 440 MHz. Even 2 meters wasn't all
that busy; Heathkit sixers and twoers were the rigs of the day. I really
wan't familiar with any territory above 30 MHz back then.

When is "back then?" And how can an LOS path be "busy" in a
non-urban area? Picture sitting around waiting for ducting or
temperature inversion to reach out beyond 30 to 40 miles...

The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't
familiar with VHF.

"Familiarity with VHF" wasn't needed. ALL that counted was getting
the morse code speed UP...that yielded absolute knowledge of all
theory thus guaranteeing rank-status-privilege.

We're trying to change that, all in vain. Only the actuarial tables
bring about change in the ARS.

I designed and built an external VFO for a few Sixers. Worked fine.
One of the recipients was showing an olde-fahrt extra how it
operated and olde-fahrt said "Nice, did you build it?" "No," said
my friend and, pointing to me, "He did." "THAT'S ILLEGAL!" shouted
the olde-fahrt. Heh heh heh...the same anal attitudes existed four
decades ago as they do now.

In RRAP, we have the uniformed, and the uninformed!

The other choice was to work on your code. The novice license was issued
for one year and was not renewable. I took this choice and it took me a
while to get my code speed up. When I did take the test and pass 13, I was
good for about 18 (which helps when you're nervous and travel 60 miles to
take the test administered by the FCC, not a VEC).

So? I traveled 90 miles by train to the Chicago FCC office for
my First 'Phone test. No snow and I kept my shoes on all the way.

Aha! Gotcha!

You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in
distance!!!

Heh heh heh. In northern Illinois the elevation changes amount
to +/- a yard. Not even close to bragging rights... :-)

Darnit!!! We're supposed to hear about how it was uphill both ways
juss like the real hammes claim.

However, to kill time waiting for the return train, I saw a
matinee of "Oklahoma." Sat in the balcony, undisturbed. That
was good for a change of a couple stories in height! :-)

Did you try a "balcony" antenna while there?

Too bad it was a sunny day in Chicago. No snow to brag to
anyone ("uphill both ways through"). Passed no problem,
even with the interruption of a fire drill in the Federal
Building halfway through the test.

No real hamme could have survived that.

[a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking
about on this subject...they weren't here to see some of the
astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and
others in here]



Dick was not unique unto himself. There are plenty of Dick imposters
in the ARS.

From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 15:48


wrote:
From: "bb" on Tues 21 Jun 2005 03:15

wrote:
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Sun 19 Jun 2005 22:46
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message


The twoers and sixers were rock-bound. Anyway, he said that he wasn't
familiar with VHF.

"Familiarity with VHF" wasn't needed. ALL that counted was getting
the morse code speed UP...that yielded absolute knowledge of all
theory thus guaranteeing rank-status-privilege.

We're trying to change that, all in vain. Only the actuarial tables
bring about change in the ARS.

Well, that's how it goes... :-)

I designed and built an external VFO for a few Sixers. Worked fine.
One of the recipients was showing an olde-fahrt extra how it
operated and olde-fahrt said "Nice, did you build it?" "No," said
my friend and, pointing to me, "He did." "THAT'S ILLEGAL!" shouted
the olde-fahrt. Heh heh heh...the same anal attitudes existed four
decades ago as they do now.

In RRAP, we have the uniformed, and the uninformed!

The "uniformed and the uninformed!" I LIKE that phrase. Apt. :-)


You forgot to mention the changes in elevation over changes in
distance!!!

Heh heh heh. In northern Illinois the elevation changes amount
to +/- a yard. Not even close to bragging rights... :-)

Darnit!!! We're supposed to hear about how it was uphill both ways
juss like the real hammes claim.

That was for a COMMERCIAL license, Brian. No braggin' rights
allowed in here on that. :-)

However, to kill time waiting for the return train, I saw a
matinee of "Oklahoma." Sat in the balcony, undisturbed. That
was good for a change of a couple stories in height! :-)

Did you try a "balcony" antenna while there?

Nobody to communicate with. Was a slow day for matinees, I guess.


Too bad it was a sunny day in Chicago. No snow to brag to
anyone ("uphill both ways through"). Passed no problem,
even with the interruption of a fire drill in the Federal
Building halfway through the test.

No real hamme could have survived that.

You're probably right.


[a lot of the anony-mousies won't know what we're talking
about on this subject...they weren't here to see some of the
astounding bragging going on by the late Dick Carroll and
others in here]



Dick was not unique unto himself. There are plenty of Dick imposters
in the ARS.

You mean the beepers are all just dildoes?!? Good grief!

Maybe Dr. Ruth Westheimer needs to be informed of this!?!

Brrrr...what a group!

wrote:
From: "bb" on Wed 22 Jun 2005 15:48

In RRAP, we have the uniformed, and the uninformed!

The "uniformed and the uninformed!" I LIKE that phrase. Apt. :-)

A single person comes to mind.

BTW, Dee and Dan both just informed me that "dip****" wasn't profanity,
so I think the phrase, "Gunny Dip****" will be met with overwhelming
approval, unless K8MN corrects me and says it should be "Dip**** Gunny."