Anyone aware of any court challenges to the FCC banning the use of "codes"
(encryption/decryption) on radio.

It seems insane that encrypted data is exchanged freely on the internet and yet
regulations prevent its use on amateur radio, how such can be prevented on one
specific form of communications seems insane.

Very sophisticated means are even used to embed text/voice data in video and
binary pictures which is virtually impossible to detect/decrypt with the even
the fastest computers--within practical time periods (like millions of
years--let alone lifetimes.)

John

John Smith wrote:
Anyone aware of any court challenges to the FCC banning the use of "codes"
(encryption/decryption) on radio.

No I am not

It seems insane that encrypted data is exchanged freely on the internet and yet
regulations prevent its use on amateur radio, how such can be prevented on one
specific form of communications seems insane.

As I understand the matter it comes in part from concerns that Spies
would use Ham radio to do thier deeds

Today with al queada I can't see the FCC budging on this one


Very sophisticated means are even used to embed text/voice data in video and
binary pictures which is virtually impossible to detect/decrypt with the even
the fastest computers--within practical time periods (like millions of
years--let alone lifetimes.)

I have heard of this never studied it could something like that be used
to embed same in something like SSTV

John

OTOH Your mention PGP I suppose based on the discusions of the USE of
PSK 31 and other modes you could argue the use PGP would be legal is
the non encoded parts of the tranmision in addition to your Call sign
contained the addresses where both of the keys could be found. The
addresses would have to be acesable over say the internet but it should
be legal

Alothough the FCC is liable to try to make a fight of it, one that
isn't worth it to me at anyrate

Are you joking man?

Why would terrorists use radio, even with the narrowest directive antennas and
broadcast to who-knows-who?

The FCC thinks them too ignorant to figure out the internet is a much better
vector?

I suspect there is much more on Al Jazerras' website than meets the eye... but,
who knows?

John

"an old friend" wrote in message
ups.com...


John Smith wrote:
Anyone aware of any court challenges to the FCC banning the use of "codes"
(encryption/decryption) on radio.

No I am not

It seems insane that encrypted data is exchanged freely on the internet and
yet
regulations prevent its use on amateur radio, how such can be prevented on
one
specific form of communications seems insane.

As I understand the matter it comes in part from concerns that Spies
would use Ham radio to do thier deeds

Today with al queada I can't see the FCC budging on this one


Very sophisticated means are even used to embed text/voice data in video and
binary pictures which is virtually impossible to detect/decrypt with the
even
the fastest computers--within practical time periods (like millions of
years--let alone lifetimes.)

I have heard of this never studied it could something like that be used
to embed same in something like SSTV

John

OTOH Your mention PGP I suppose based on the discusions of the USE of
PSK 31 and other modes you could argue the use PGP would be legal is
the non encoded parts of the tranmision in addition to your Call sign
contained the addresses where both of the keys could be found. The
addresses would have to be acesable over say the internet but it should
be legal

Alothough the FCC is liable to try to make a fight of it, one that
isn't worth it to me at anyrate

John Smith wrote:
Are you joking man?

I wish I was

But nothing that a hare brained sheme could say they might do will be
granted now


Why would terrorists use radio, even with the narrowest directive antennas and
broadcast to who-knows-who?

Is it? After all the FCC can't seem to find the folks breaking the
rules now

and doing something that looks stupid is a classic in threat analisys
work

Good examples of it are in "the longest day" a german general was
pointing out how silly his plan for wining a wargame was Normandy bad
wether and low tide, which turned out to be what the Allies did

Using radio would be a soft target approuch


The FCC thinks them too ignorant to figure out the internet is a much better
vector?

I suspect there is much more on Al Jazerras' website than meets the eye... but,
who knows?

Only Al quaeda knows for sure, if even they do

John

"an old friend" wrote in message
ups.com...


John Smith wrote:
Anyone aware of any court challenges to the FCC banning the use of "codes"
(encryption/decryption) on radio.

No I am not

It seems insane that encrypted data is exchanged freely on the internet and
yet
regulations prevent its use on amateur radio, how such can be prevented on
one
specific form of communications seems insane.

As I understand the matter it comes in part from concerns that Spies
would use Ham radio to do thier deeds

Today with al queada I can't see the FCC budging on this one


Very sophisticated means are even used to embed text/voice data in video and
binary pictures which is virtually impossible to detect/decrypt with the
even
the fastest computers--within practical time periods (like millions of
years--let alone lifetimes.)

I have heard of this never studied it could something like that be used
to embed same in something like SSTV

John

OTOH Your mention PGP I suppose based on the discusions of the USE of
PSK 31 and other modes you could argue the use PGP would be legal is
the non encoded parts of the tranmision in addition to your Call sign
contained the addresses where both of the keys could be found. The
addresses would have to be acesable over say the internet but it should
be legal

Alothough the FCC is liable to try to make a fight of it, one that
isn't worth it to me at anyrate

Ohhh, those boys in the NSA are smart alright (well, unless they got the job
because they are a relative/friend of someone who is somebody) and, I am sure
they have their tools, but if they even move to claim that encryption of data
by methods such as PGP and its equiv--I am afraid I would have to consider the
possibility they were lying...

John

"an old friend" wrote in message
ups.com...


John Smith wrote:
Are you joking man?

I wish I was

But nothing that a hare brained sheme could say they might do will be
granted now


Why would terrorists use radio, even with the narrowest directive antennas
and
broadcast to who-knows-who?

Is it? After all the FCC can't seem to find the folks breaking the
rules now

and doing something that looks stupid is a classic in threat analisys
work

Good examples of it are in "the longest day" a german general was
pointing out how silly his plan for wining a wargame was Normandy bad
wether and low tide, which turned out to be what the Allies did

Using radio would be a soft target approuch


The FCC thinks them too ignorant to figure out the internet is a much better
vector?

I suspect there is much more on Al Jazerras' website than meets the eye...
but,
who knows?

Only Al quaeda knows for sure, if even they do

John

"an old friend" wrote in message
ups.com...


John Smith wrote:
Anyone aware of any court challenges to the FCC banning the use of
"codes"
(encryption/decryption) on radio.

No I am not

It seems insane that encrypted data is exchanged freely on the internet
and
yet
regulations prevent its use on amateur radio, how such can be prevented
on
one
specific form of communications seems insane.

As I understand the matter it comes in part from concerns that Spies
would use Ham radio to do thier deeds

Today with al queada I can't see the FCC budging on this one


Very sophisticated means are even used to embed text/voice data in video
and
binary pictures which is virtually impossible to detect/decrypt with the
even
the fastest computers--within practical time periods (like millions of
years--let alone lifetimes.)

I have heard of this never studied it could something like that be used
to embed same in something like SSTV

John

OTOH Your mention PGP I suppose based on the discusions of the USE of
PSK 31 and other modes you could argue the use PGP would be legal is
the non encoded parts of the tranmision in addition to your Call sign
contained the addresses where both of the keys could be found. The
addresses would have to be acesable over say the internet but it should
be legal

Alothough the FCC is liable to try to make a fight of it, one that
isn't worth it to me at anyrate

John Smith wrote:

Why would terrorists use radio, even with the narrowest directive antennas and
broadcast to who-knows-who?

Simple, John.

Hide in plain sight. Make it look like a duck, sound like a duck
and quack like a duck, everyone thinks it's just another duck.

Just like 20 middle eastern guys did at flight schools around the
United States a few years back and then perpetrated one of the most
heinous acts of terrorism the world had ever seen.

Just my 0.02....

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ:

Exactly, the duck idea is excellent. And, that is exactly why I was pointing
out the "code" would be buried in a graphic on a website, maybe Al
Jazerra's(sp?), or any other, and can be read from any library or other
computer across the nation...

Also, music broadcasts from sw stations would be good...

John

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Smith wrote:

Why would terrorists use radio, even with the narrowest directive antennas
and
broadcast to who-knows-who?

Simple, John.

Hide in plain sight. Make it look like a duck, sound like a duck
and quack like a duck, everyone thinks it's just another duck.

Just like 20 middle eastern guys did at flight schools around the
United States a few years back and then perpetrated one of the most
heinous acts of terrorism the world had ever seen.

Just my 0.02....

73

Steve, K4YZ

an old friend wrote:
John Smith wrote:
Anyone aware of any court challenges to the FCC banning the use of "codes"
(encryption/decryption) on radio.

No I am not

It seems insane that encrypted data is exchanged freely on the internet and yet
regulations prevent its use on amateur radio, how such can be prevented on one
specific form of communications seems insane.

As I understand the matter it comes in part from concerns that Spies
would use Ham radio to do thier deeds

Today with al queada I can't see the FCC budging on this one


Very sophisticated means are even used to embed text/voice data in video and
binary pictures which is virtually impossible to detect/decrypt with the even
the fastest computers--within practical time periods (like millions of
years--let alone lifetimes.)

I have heard of this never studied it could something like that be used
to embed same in something like SSTV

John

OTOH Your mention PGP I suppose based on the discusions of the USE of
PSK 31 and other modes you could argue the use PGP would be legal is
the non encoded parts of the tranmision in addition to your Call sign
contained the addresses where both of the keys could be found. The
addresses would have to be acesable over say the internet but it should
be legal

You're only problem here, Mark, is that PSK31 is not an encryption
technique. Otherwise I agree with your above assessment (esp
w/reference to Al-Queda)

Alothough the FCC is liable to try to make a fight of it, one that
isn't worth it to me at anyrate

Probably true.

73

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
an old friend wrote:
John Smith wrote:
Anyone aware of any court challenges to the FCC banning the use of "codes"
(encryption/decryption) on radio.

No I am not

It seems insane that encrypted data is exchanged freely on the internet and yet
regulations prevent its use on amateur radio, how such can be prevented on one
specific form of communications seems insane.

As I understand the matter it comes in part from concerns that Spies
would use Ham radio to do thier deeds

Today with al queada I can't see the FCC budging on this one


Very sophisticated means are even used to embed text/voice data in video and
binary pictures which is virtually impossible to detect/decrypt with the even
the fastest computers--within practical time periods (like millions of
years--let alone lifetimes.)

I have heard of this never studied it could something like that be used
to embed same in something like SSTV

John

OTOH Your mention PGP I suppose based on the discusions of the USE of
PSK 31 and other modes you could argue the use PGP would be legal is
the non encoded parts of the tranmision in addition to your Call sign
contained the addresses where both of the keys could be found. The
addresses would have to be acesable over say the internet but it should
be legal

You're only problem here, Mark, is that PSK31 is not an encryption
technique. Otherwise I agree with your above assessment (esp
w/reference to Al-Queda)

PSK31 is an encryption/encoding method as is morse encoded cw both
legal becuase they are published (and morse is of course enshined by
name in the rule book) the rules are rather vague on where the line
drwn in these matters esp as technolgy advances so fast to make one
year unbreakable code, todays public key


Alothough the FCC is liable to try to make a fight of it, one that
isn't worth it to me at anyrate

Probably true.

73

Steve, K4YZ

"an old friend" wrote


PSK31 is an encryption/encoding method


PSK31 is a modulation method, not an encryption method. No cryptography is
involved.

Good luck on this one now!

73, de Hans, K0HB