wrote in
ups.com:

John Smith wrote:

If the only difference between NC tech, and tech+ is the
code, and there
is is no longer a code test, would logic dictate that the
plus'es can
still hold a greater privilege than a tech?

The FCC's logic says "YES!"

Now, why would logic dictate their being two classes of
tech, when there
does not exist any difference between the classes?

But there *does* exist a difference!

Techs who have passed a code test have some HF privileges
now - today - under current rules.

Techs who have not passed a code test have no HF privileges
now - today - under current rules.

The FCC makes it clear that they do not want any current
licensee to gain or lose privileges simply because of the
proposed changes.

Therefore, if the proposal is enacted, the two types of
Techs (code tested and non code tested) will continue to
exist, with the difference in privileges, even if there's
no longer a code test, and even after the last Tech Plus
expires, upgrades, or is renewed as Tech.

Often you see this kind of insanity when the gov't
becomes involved, you could argue that point, and there
are no more tech plus licenses being issued, you could also argue that
point.

It's not "insanity" at all. It's the only way to satisfy
all the requirements listed above.

However, I think just as valid an argument would be that tech
plus was ok
for some HF, now there is no code, so tech is now ok for the same HF
allowances.

That would violate the principle of no additional privs without
the appropriate test, whoch the FCC repeatedly supports in the
NPRM document.

However, I don't think you are going to find many who would
care to argue
this point, there just is not enough interest in amateur radio at
this point, and the argument is something of a "time sensitive" issue,
it would have to be argued
quickly--or not at all. As precedence is won by the dragging of
the feet...

You can argue it all you want. Comments don't close for weeks yet.

If anyone actually bothers to read the NPRM, they'll see that
FCC repeatedly mentions how easy it is for existing licensees
to get more privileges by passing only written tests. FCC also
mentions repeatedly how, if the NPRM is enacted, all nonExtras
will be able to get more privileges by taking a few written
tests. They even mention how many correct answers are needed.

FCC also repeatedly mentions their support for spectrum as an
incentive to upgrading, and how free upgrades act as a
disincentive.

Do you not like the idea of a VHF/UHF-only entry-level license,
with HF held out as an incentive for more *written* testing?

--

Just think - under the new system, all new hams will have access to all
of amateur VHF/UHF, all modes, and full authorized power.

Those who go on to General will have most HF privileges too, with small
parts of 4 HF bands reserved for Extras.

Be careful what you ask for - you may just get it.


An interesting aside in the NPRM says that, in another separate proceeding
in another NPRM, the Novice subbands will be eliminated, and all Novice and
Tech+ hams will have the General subbands on the bands where they have
privileges. Presumably on 80/40/15 they really mean only the General _CW_
subbands, but on 10 they would apparently get the whole band.

Oddly, though, both these licence classes would be closed, so that no-one
could get a new one. I suppose it does make sense, as it would be idiotic
to preserve the Novice subbands only for closed licence classes.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Kim:

[snip]


Wonder a NC Tech (and a woman even!--with a "hard to pronounce
call!"--something like "Lake Titicaca?" grin) can survive here, don't
they tend to "use up all the air in room", leaving one wanting for outside
and a fresh breath of air?
grin

John


You haven't been paying attention. Kim is a Tech Plus. She has chosen to
stay at that level since HF holds no interest for her.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
. ..
"Dee Flint" wrote in
:


"an old friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in break
There is one loose end, though. I read the NPRM to say that Tech+
would become closed, so that all new Techs would have to get element
3 to get on HF, but others have read it that all Techs would get
Tech+ privileges. Does
anyone know which is right?

I read it as techs all tech end up with what amounts to what was once
called tech plus,

but anyone that claims to know what the result is likely to prove
themselves a lair


If you are talking about the US proposal, read the NPRM through a
couple of times. They discuss this at great length. Techs will not
get Tech+ privileges. Anyone who wants to increase their privileges
will have to take a test. They specifically state that no one will get
any changes in privileges. That is also consistent with the way the
paragraphs will be reworded as shown in the appendix.

Finally, one of the posters on eHam called the FCC on this and asked
for and got clarification. He was told that Techs will not get Tech+
privileges. It is indeed the FCC's position that anyone desiring more
than their current privileges must take the appropriate written test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




That is how I read it too, but it was a little hard to be sure without a
copy of Part 97 in front of me, plus a few people had made posts that
interpreted it the other way.

I found it took a couple of readings AND getting out my copy of Part 97 and
doing a comparison to have confidence in my conclusion. By the way, it's
not a bad idea to keep a copy of the current Part 97 on hand. A person
tends to forget those areas that relate to activities that they only do
occasionally. I always have to look up the rules on digital since I only
hook it up every couple of years.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Kim wrote:



Although, come to think of
it...there's not that many of the "regulars" who are communicating with
you... So maybe it's still an issue, just not as noticeable as it used to
be...


Bingo!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Kim:

Kim, don't you ever wonder who setup newsgroups for them on their
computer,
isn't pretty obvious they could not? Who then, grandkids?


Me personally. I don't have a problem with someone who is, even, entrenched
in tradition of something, which is pretty much what it seems you're
describing in the paragraphs above that sentance there and that sentance. I
don't know how to plumb a house, install wiring for electricity, rebuild a
transmission, diagnose and treat my self medically, etc. And, I don't
begrudge the people who do for having some pride in the tradition of "their"
ways (whomever "their" may be). Where I do have a problem--and I don't see
it much anymore, save a few idiots, is where that pride in tradition
translates to some kind of inalienable right to belittle others for getting
there differently and choosing to walk to the beat of a different drum.


That was the lair of these old brass pounders, around equip and practices
which
is now only found in museums--and old hams shacks...


And, what a wonderful thing that is. I am also in awe of the memory of
people who forged this country on foot, horseback, train, early cars and
dirt roads and now shoot themselves into space with all the threats to life
and safety that is attached to that.

Wonder a NC Tech (and a woman even!--with a "hard to pronounce
call!"--something like "Lake Titicaca?" grin) can survive here, don't
they
tend to "use up all the air in room", leaving one wanting for outside and
a
fresh breath of air?
grin


Not at all. The idiots don't even do that. I am not sure there's any NC
Techs on this newsgroup, either. I may be the lowest license class amateur
here, and that is Tech+.

Kim W5TIT

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Kim:

[snip]


Wonder a NC Tech (and a woman even!--with a "hard to pronounce
call!"--something like "Lake Titicaca?" grin) can survive here, don't
they tend to "use up all the air in room", leaving one wanting for
outside
and a fresh breath of air?
grin

John


You haven't been paying attention. Kim is a Tech Plus. She has chosen to
stay at that level since HF holds no interest for her.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE



'Zackly.

Kim W5TIT

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
Kim wrote:



Although, come to think of
it...there's not that many of the "regulars" who are communicating with
you... So maybe it's still an issue, just not as noticeable as it used
to
be...


Bingo!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Shhhhhh. Does anyone have another halter?

Kim W5TIT

Ohhh, tech plus, I stand corrected, and you are right, I missed that point!

Sorry Kim!

John

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 07:11:11 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Kim:

[snip]


Wonder a NC Tech (and a woman even!--with a "hard to pronounce
call!"--something like "Lake Titicaca?" grin) can survive here, don't
they tend to "use up all the air in room", leaving one wanting for outside
and a fresh breath of air?
grin

John


You haven't been paying attention. Kim is a Tech Plus. She has chosen to
stay at that level since HF holds no interest for her.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Kim:

Good post, I can't disagree with much there. People are funny, no
accounting for some of their views, beliefs and ways, I guess.

One thing we can hold faith in, if some strive to hold back progress as
much as it looks like the are to me, I believe strongly they will only
fail. As, anyone over-looking our past can plainly see, the only thing
which has truly been consistant is the push forward, always on to new
technology and better hardware and methods.

Some fear tomorrow, some can't wait for it to get here...

John

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 12:41:01 +0000, Kim wrote:

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Kim:

Kim, don't you ever wonder who setup newsgroups for them on their
computer,
isn't pretty obvious they could not? Who then, grandkids?


Me personally. I don't have a problem with someone who is, even, entrenched
in tradition of something, which is pretty much what it seems you're
describing in the paragraphs above that sentance there and that sentance. I
don't know how to plumb a house, install wiring for electricity, rebuild a
transmission, diagnose and treat my self medically, etc. And, I don't
begrudge the people who do for having some pride in the tradition of "their"
ways (whomever "their" may be). Where I do have a problem--and I don't see
it much anymore, save a few idiots, is where that pride in tradition
translates to some kind of inalienable right to belittle others for getting
there differently and choosing to walk to the beat of a different drum.


That was the lair of these old brass pounders, around equip and practices
which
is now only found in museums--and old hams shacks...


And, what a wonderful thing that is. I am also in awe of the memory of
people who forged this country on foot, horseback, train, early cars and
dirt roads and now shoot themselves into space with all the threats to life
and safety that is attached to that.

Wonder a NC Tech (and a woman even!--with a "hard to pronounce
call!"--something like "Lake Titicaca?" grin) can survive here, don't
they
tend to "use up all the air in room", leaving one wanting for outside and
a
fresh breath of air?
grin


Not at all. The idiots don't even do that. I am not sure there's any NC
Techs on this newsgroup, either. I may be the lowest license class amateur
here, and that is Tech+.

Kim W5TIT

Michael:

Strange, fearing old hams which must lurk in shadows hoping the youngsters
will fear them out of past deeds of glory. I suppose people always have a
fear of the unknown, as long as you don't know the evil--it takes on a
grand size and threat...

Naaa, I think they fear change. Even they know it is inevitable, Mr.
Anderson...

John

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:05:42 -0400, Michael Coslo wrote:

Kim wrote:



Although, come to think of
it...there's not that many of the "regulars" who are communicating with
you... So maybe it's still an issue, just not as noticeable as it used to
be...


Bingo!

- Mike KB3EIA -