|
b.b.:
They are not "sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader..." can't read it, they are attempting to send so badly that a computer running software coded by one both CW and computer savvy has set up--I suspect they think themselves smarter than the computer... maybe... grin Indeed, a very good programmer would inject "nuances" into the way the app translated his keyboard code to morse, making it virtually impossible for them to tell they were copying automaton generated code, at a very respectable speed! grin I would think it would be a game, an enjoyable one... John "b.b." wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: b.b.: Uhhh, we "code tape wizards" and "computer taught b*st*rds" are "out there" (more ways than one, I suppose), and if a code reader can't display it on the screen--we can probably live without those "words of wisdom." Art Bell said, "CW is dead!" If Art Bell (even more trustworthy than Santa and the New York Times!) says it, Victoria, it is true! John I have no problem with folks wanting to use CW. It just ****es me off when they make claims of intentionally sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader can't listen in. |
KXHB:
OMG. The perverts have exchanged their boxes of lollipops for HT's... My gawd, those evil, evil men! John "KXHB" wrote in message ink.net... "b.b." wrote It just ****es me off when they make claims of intentionally sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader can't listen in. Give it up Willy Weeper. "They" (a single guy) who said that is long since dead, but you keep writing jeremiads on a topic that no living soul remains to support. And why is it that you continue to hijack my satirical character, Billy Beeper? beep beep de Hans, K0HB (Apologies to Kurt Vonnegut) To all external appearances, Farnsworth Corners, U.S.A., is bright, cheerful, and happy. However, in dark corners of the city lurk Godless Nocoders who seek to undermine the moral fabric of our mighty Nation. In a dirty basement apartment, an underfed, seedy-looking old man wearing small, round spectacles and threadbare clothes, types furiously at a musty desk illumined only by a single, naked bulb. As the pages fly through his typewriter, an evil plan gradually emerges: a treacherous treatise which threatens the well-being of the upright citizens of Farnsworth Corners. The work is completed, and the old man leans back thoughtfully and smiles as he rubs the three-day stubble on his chin. The time has come for the Hammer of Leonard to strike! Some weeks later, in another part of town, little Billy Beeper walks home from school. Suddenly he hears a voice right next to his ear. "Psst! Hey, kid! Would you like to try my 2M HT? It's free!" Billy's eyes open wide as he faces the stranger. An embroidered patch on the mans soiled jumpsuit reads "Codefree Charlie". "Gosh, no! N2EY told me never to touch a radio which didn't beep!" "Aw, c'mon!" says the old man. "I only wanna be friends with you!" "Well, I don't know," replies Billy. "I was told that FM was bad for you!" "That's just what the grown-ups say to scare you!" says the drooling man. "The truth is that they don't want you to try it 'cause it'll make you grow up faster and be able to smoke cigarettes and drink liquor just like them!" Billy is hesitant, but suddenly a tall form looms before them and grabs the ruffian by the collar. "Golly!" exclaims Billy. "It's Captain Code!" Yes, Readers, it's Captain Code: faster than a Vibroplex Blue Racer, more powerful than an Alpha three-holer, able to leap tall pileups in a single bound. "You should be ashamed of yourself, old man," says Captain Code to the hoodlum. "There are far better ways to earn money than to hoodwink innocent children into a life of codelessness. It's to the FCC for you! "And as for you, young friend, take my advice and stay away from strangers, and believe nothing that they say. It's tragic, but until Godless Nocodism is abolished from the world, there will always be those who would like nothing better than to hurt you ." "Gee, thanks, Captain Code!" says Billy. "I promise that I'll always listen to Mom and Dad, and I'll keep away from strangers with shacks on their belt!" |
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in
ink.net: "b.b." wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "b.b." wrote in message oups.com... KØHB wrote: "b.b." wrote Maybe Morse can go back to being an encoding scheme, and Farnsworth can go back to being a teaching method. Thus it is, thus it always has been.... I don't understand "go back to".... 73, de Hans, K0HB Morse had become merely a licensing hurdle, Farnsworth a testing scheme. Now if anyone bothers to learn Morse, it will be to use it. You know something? Your probably right....and actually that is a good thing. Dan/W4NTI People may not always agree with my opinions, but that's OK with me. There were plenty of Code Tape Extra's out there who never worked a dit in their lives. Of course there were/are. Lots of folks never cared a lick if they actually operated CW or not. And to them it was a hurdle to do 13 or 20. But to those select few that actually enjoyed the mode it became a real pain hearing about how hard it was to learn, how useless, how unnecessary, etc. Now perhaps the debate will finally END. And those that like CW can continue to enjoy it. And help those that want to learn it, learn it, and also enjoy it. And use it and not have to put up with all the whinning any longer. Dan/W4NTI That's a change of tune from you. When you're right, you're right! |
John Smith wrote: b.b.: They are not "sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader..." can't read it, they are attempting to send so badly that a computer running software coded by one both CW and computer savvy has set up--I suspect they think themselves smarter than the computer... maybe... grin Indeed, a very good programmer would inject "nuances" into the way the app translated his keyboard code to morse, making it virtually impossible for them to tell they were copying automaton generated code, at a very respectable speed! grin personaly I have never had anyone but those in the know believe I was sending via machine ( I would do that back in the days 13 wpm was needed for real access to HF, after all anyine that can follow my offhand typing at 13wpm can manage to pass any test at that speed I would think it would be a game, an enjoyable one... John "b.b." wrote in message ups.com... John Smith wrote: b.b.: Uhhh, we "code tape wizards" and "computer taught b*st*rds" are "out there" (more ways than one, I suppose), and if a code reader can't display it on the screen--we can probably live without those "words of wisdom." Art Bell said, "CW is dead!" If Art Bell (even more trustworthy than Santa and the New York Times!) says it, Victoria, it is true! John I have no problem with folks wanting to use CW. It just ****es me off when they make claims of intentionally sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader can't listen in. |
K=D8HB wrote: "b.b." wrote It just ****es me off when they make claims of intentionally sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader can't listen in. Give it up Willy Weeper. "They" (a single guy) And a whole bunch of hanger's on... who said that is long since dead, The actuarial tables offer no apology. but you keep writing jeremiads on a topic that no living soul remains to support. If Dick were alive, a dozen amateurs of low intelligence would jump in to support him. And why is it that you continue to hijack my satirical character, Billy B= eeper? beep beep de Hans, K0HB (Apologies to Kurt Vonnegut) Continue??? You were asked if you wanted him back, and I would gladly return him to his rightful owner. You didn't reply. Are you asking now? If so, do it plainly so that I do not mistake if for just more Extra-class "stuff." With the mostest kindest regards, Billy Beeper To all external appearances, Farnsworth Corners, U.S.A., is bright, cheer= ful, and happy. However, in dark corners of the city lurk Godless Nocoders who= seek to undermine the moral fabric of our mighty Nation. In a dirty basement apartment, an underfed, seedy-looking old man wearing= small, round spectacles and threadbare clothes, types furiously at a musty desk illumined only by a single, naked bulb. As the pages fly through his type= writer, an evil plan gradually emerges: a treacherous treatise which threatens the well-being of the upright citizens of Farnsworth Corners. The work is com= pleted, and the old man leans back thoughtfully and smiles as he rubs the three-d= ay stubble on his chin. The time has come for the Hammer of Leonard to strik= e! Some weeks later, in another part of town, little Billy Beeper walks home= from school. Suddenly he hears a voice right next to his ear. "Psst! Hey, kid! Would you like to try my 2M HT? It's free!" Billy's eyes open wide as he faces the stranger. An embroidered patch on = the mans soiled jumpsuit reads "Codefree Charlie". "Gosh, no! N2EY told me ne= ver to touch a radio which didn't beep!" "Aw, c'mon!" says the old man. "I only wanna be friends with you!" "Well, I don't know," replies Billy. "I was told that FM was bad for you!" "That's just what the grown-ups say to scare you!" says the drooling man. "The truth is that they don't want you to try it 'cause it'll make you gr= ow up faster and be able to smoke cigarettes and drink liquor just like them!" Billy is hesitant, but suddenly a tall form looms before them and grabs t= he ruffian by the collar. "Golly!" exclaims Billy. "It's Captain Code!" Yes, Readers, it's Captain Code: faster than a Vibroplex Blue Racer, more powerful than an Alpha three-holer, able to leap tall pileups in a single= bound. "You should be ashamed of yourself, old man," says Captain Code to the ho= odlum. "There are far better ways to earn money than to hoodwink innocent childr= en into a life of codelessness. It's to the FCC for you! "And as for you, young friend, take my advice and stay away from stranger= s, and believe nothing that they say. It's tragic, but until Godless Nocodism is abolished from the world, there will always be those who would like nothi= ng better than to hurt you ." "Gee, thanks, Captain Code!" says Billy. "I promise that I'll always list= en to Mom and Dad, and I'll keep away from strangers with shacks on their belt!" |
From: "John Smith" on Tues 2 Aug 2005 20:29
b.b.: They are not "sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader..." can't read it, they are attempting to send so badly that a computer running software coded by one both CW and computer savvy has set up--I suspect they think themselves smarter than the computer... maybe... grin Indeed, a very good programmer would inject "nuances" into the way the app translated his keyboard code to morse, making it virtually impossible for them to tell they were copying automaton generated code, at a very respectable speed! grin I would think it would be a game, an enjoyable one... John, that discussion took place in here a few years ago, my remarking on what I'd seen, lent my Icom HF receiver for an air test, on an ADAPTIVE decoder for morse. It was written by a professional programmer as an intellectual exercise for his own benefit, just wondering if it could be done. The ADAPTIVE part was in automatically adjusting to the differences in weighting of dits and dahs, their combination resulting in a word rate equivalent. The ADAPTIVE part took most of the source code...the translation of morse characters to ASCII for immediate display was a small, small part of the source, just a small look-up table in effect. It was done on a medium-old clock rate PC but would be a snap to work at a 2 GHz clock. To reverse the process, to add weighting to dits and dahs, even to having different weighting for different characters, is a snap with a random number routine. That wasn't done, but is viable without much alteration of the source. The PCTA extras in here will have NONE of such things! They will attempt to THRASH anyone in a monumental display of deus ex machina worthy of the most devout Luddite. shrug don dit |
Bert Craig wrote: "K=D8HB" wrote in message nk.net... The 25WPM plateau seems related to sublimating copying to a "middle conscious" level, where the characters flow at an almost sub-conscious level from the ear to the fingertip without active thought about the actual characters heard. 73, de Hans, K0HB Sigh, I hope to get to this level eventually. I'm at the point where I'm just starting to "hear" words like tnx, abt, the, fer, qsl, qsb, name, op, rst, etc. rather than spelling them in my head. Hans is talking about this sort of thing: http://hometown.aol.com/wa3iyc/myhomepage/photo.html=20 73 de Jim, N2EY |
What you folks are describing is just a form of RTTY using Morse Code
as the encoding method, rather than ASCII or Baudot or some other scheme. Of course it can be done, and has been done. Why it would be done is another issue. It is certainly not a "better way". Consider a bicycle. If another wheel is added, the rider doesn't need to worry about falling over, so the skill required to ride it is greatly reduced. Add a small gasoline engine and a suitable transmission, and pedaling becomes much easier. A simple cover will protect the rider from rain and other inclement weather. Eventually you wind up with a small, three-wheeled automobile that could win the Tour de France. Except it's not a bicycle anymore, and its rider isn't a cyclist by any stretch of the imagination. Or consider the piano. Pianos and similar keyboard instruments have been around for hundreds of years. It takes considerable skill and practice to play them, and reading sheet music is a skill of its own. With modern computers and software, however, one can simply have a machine that scans in the sheet music and turns it into a "performance" - without all those lessons, practice, etc. There are many such analogies. But they are lost on some people - those who Shaw described as "knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing." John Smith wrote: Len: Yep, that is one way alright, and produces good results, there are others, some better. Adaptive learning by the program is the key, and the program must learn what the senders' length of a di to a dah is, and the breath of the width he is spanning of each the di and the dah. The amateur abbreviations are in a table, and the dictionary from a spell checker can be borrowed to check decoded morse words against which are not abbreviations. You are right, a high speed machine affords you time to do abundant error checking--and here is where you gain close to 100% accuracy from, final fall back is the ear and the mind, to correct any mistakes the program cannot, yet, handle... All words which do not match the table of abbreviations or the dictionary have a copy of that word thrown into an error file, along with di's represented by periods and dah's represented by underscores or hyphens, of the word thought to be an error. This error file can be studied later and the program "tweaked" to handle such errors in the future. However, what interests me most is your knowledge on the subject, you most certainly have a good grasp of the logic necessary to begin to put one together. Perhaps you have programmed and played with such yourself? Perhaps you have a relative or friend in the field? John On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:23:57 -0700, LenAnderson wrote: From: "John Smith" on Tues 2 Aug 2005 20:29 b.b.: They are not "sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader..." can't read it, they are attempting to send so badly that a computer running software coded by one both CW and computer savvy has set up--I suspect they think themselves smarter than the computer... maybe... grin Indeed, a very good programmer would inject "nuances" into the way the app translated his keyboard code to morse, making it virtually impossible for them to tell they were copying automaton generated code, at a very respectable speed! grin I would think it would be a game, an enjoyable one... John, that discussion took place in here a few years ago, my remarking on what I'd seen, lent my Icom HF receiver for an air test, on an ADAPTIVE decoder for morse. It was written by a professional programmer as an intellectual exercise for his own benefit, just wondering if it could be done. The ADAPTIVE part was in automatically adjusting to the differences in weighting of dits and dahs, their combination resulting in a word rate equivalent. The ADAPTIVE part took most of the source code...the translation of morse characters to ASCII for immediate display was a small, small part of the source, just a small look-up table in effect. It was done on a medium-old clock rate PC but would be a snap to work at a 2 GHz clock. To reverse the process, to add weighting to dits and dahs, even to having different weighting for different characters, is a snap with a random number routine. That wasn't done, but is viable without much alteration of the source. The PCTA extras in here will have NONE of such things! They will attempt to THRASH anyone in a monumental display of deus ex machina worthy of the most devout Luddite. shrug don dit |
wrote: What you folks are describing is just a form of RTTY using Morse Code as the encoding method, rather than ASCII or Baudot or some other scheme. indeed we are Of course it can be done, and has been done. Why it would be done is another issue. It is certainly not a "better way". that does depend on the goal, and the operator. Personaly I find the idea of the manual morse and compter morse interacting the only redeeming virtue of the mode (please I know you disagree but go along for a minute) That someone could use the simple assembly of the QRP rig to reach out to a station like mine reading fby machine and sending it back the same way. It is one the few occasion I can realy see much use in the mode during an emergency gives the user the low signal abilities of RTTY or PSK 31 but allowing the station in the affected area to despense with a PC Thus it is 'better" in some ways, indeed I am a much better operator of computer morse than manual and it would make my staion a bteer station by your standards (more modes more abilities) so where your beef? it is not your cup of tea sure fine Consider a bicycle. If another wheel is added, the rider doesn't need to worry about falling over, so the skill required to ride it is greatly reduced. Add a small gasoline engine and a suitable transmission, and pedaling becomes much easier. A simple cover will protect the rider from rain and other inclement weather. Eventually you wind up with a small, three-wheeled automobile that could win the Tour de France. Except it's not a bicycle anymore, and its rider isn't a cyclist by any stretch of the imagination. Or consider the piano. Pianos and similar keyboard instruments have been around for hundreds of years. It takes considerable skill and practice to play them, and reading sheet music is a skill of its own. With modern computers and software, however, one can simply have a machine that scans in the sheet music and turns it into a "performance" - without all those lessons, practice, etc. all depends on what you want, to listen or to play There are many such analogies. But they are lost on some people - those who Shaw described as "knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing." John Smith wrote: Len: Yep, that is one way alright, and produces good results, there are others, some better. Adaptive learning by the program is the key, and the program must learn what the senders' length of a di to a dah is, and the breath of the width he is spanning of each the di and the dah. The amateur abbreviations are in a table, and the dictionary from a spell checker can be borrowed to check decoded morse words against which are not abbreviations. You are right, a high speed machine affords you time to do abundant error checking--and here is where you gain close to 100% accuracy from, final fall back is the ear and the mind, to correct any mistakes the program cannot, yet, handle... All words which do not match the table of abbreviations or the dictionary have a copy of that word thrown into an error file, along with di's represented by periods and dah's represented by underscores or hyphens, of the word thought to be an error. This error file can be studied later and the program "tweaked" to handle such errors in the future. However, what interests me most is your knowledge on the subject, you most certainly have a good grasp of the logic necessary to begin to put one together. Perhaps you have programmed and played with such yourself? Perhaps you have a relative or friend in the field? John On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 22:23:57 -0700, LenAnderson wrote: From: "John Smith" on Tues 2 Aug 2005 20:29 b.b.: They are not "sending code so poorly that a pimply-faced No-Code Tech with a code reader..." can't read it, they are attempting to send so badly that a computer running software coded by one both CW and computer savvy has set up--I suspect they think themselves smarter than the computer... maybe... grin Indeed, a very good programmer would inject "nuances" into the way the app translated his keyboard code to morse, making it virtually impossible for them to tell they were copying automaton generated code, at a very respectable speed! grin I would think it would be a game, an enjoyable one... John, that discussion took place in here a few years ago, my remarking on what I'd seen, lent my Icom HF receiver for an air test, on an ADAPTIVE decoder for morse. It was written by a professional programmer as an intellectual exercise for his own benefit, just wondering if it could be done. The ADAPTIVE part was in automatically adjusting to the differences in weighting of dits and dahs, their combination resulting in a word rate equivalent. The ADAPTIVE part took most of the source code...the translation of morse characters to ASCII for immediate display was a small, small part of the source, just a small look-up table in effect. It was done on a medium-old clock rate PC but would be a snap to work at a 2 GHz clock. To reverse the process, to add weighting to dits and dahs, even to having different weighting for different characters, is a snap with a random number routine. That wasn't done, but is viable without much alteration of the source. The PCTA extras in here will have NONE of such things! They will attempt to THRASH anyone in a monumental display of deus ex machina worthy of the most devout Luddite. shrug don dit |
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