From: John Smith on Wed 17 Aug 2005 09:06

AOF:

The fcc has an avenue where ideas for change, restructuring and progress
can be introduced.

Er, John, the FCC is the ONLY avenue to travel. :-)

In the past, the ARRL seems to quickly leap to the forefront of this
process, claim they represent all amateurs and lobby for the issues in the
way they would them implemented...

Before about 1993 (give or take), the only effective
organization for anything before the government was the one
with a lobbyist or legal representative IN the DC area. The
ARRL has TWO, a legal firm and a lobbying firm (its on their
federal tax forms filed with the government...public documents,
not privileged).

The GPO printed up the Federal Register in the late night
before and in the wee small hours of the morning of the day
a Register was released. Wasn't like a magazine printed one
to two months before its issue date. Postal service was only
as swift as anyone could afford: USPS, FedEx, UPS all charged
more for overnight delivery...but otherwise were the same
speed for regular surface mail - at least three days. If you
didn't have anyone able to get into the FCC Reading Room then
you waited days and days to get news or information.

After the Internet went public in 1991, the U.S. government
jumped onto the Internet (with the help of leadership for that
from Algore) with all four paws. Suddenly the government AND
the military was all over the 'Net. What we got (in what seems
like "overnight") was something we did NOT have befo Instant
access to OUR government from our homes and businesses with none
of the (formerly) necessary middleman to go through like a
membership organization or special interest group. NO waiting
for days and days to get a response by mail, NO need to rack
up expensive minutes waiting for some long-distance telephonic
answers, NO possible distortion of news through anyone. The
information was now THERE...from the agency/office that created
the news! Remarkable stuff!

In one way, it was like the maritime world of 1900. Ships at
sea just did NOT have any way to communicate over the horizon
quickly before radio. Suddenly they GOT a means to do that
and it was ten kinds of wonderful, even if the average rate
was 10 words per minute (faster than signal flags and semaphores
in optical sighting to the horizon). In the same way, we
citizens (in many lands) can communicate DIRECTLY with OUR
governments. No "horizon blockage" from middlemen groups that
acted as quasi-governmental "representatives" (which weren't
government and thus without any security that they were honest).

a vast influx of new people may be
able to knock that strangle hold which a few at the bottle-neck were able
to achieve--loose... change appears on the way, time will tell... after
decades of decline and stagnation, cures are not to had over-night.

What MUST be done is to de-brainwash, de-toxify all that
conditioned thinking put there by special interest groups.
To those NOT of the congregation of the Church of St. Hiram,
we can see the fantastic propaganda opportunity of having a
combination PUBLISHING HOUSE and a membership organization.
It's a guaranteed built-in brainwashing attachment to have
almost COMPLETE control of that publishing output. The ARRL
has been doing publishing - with complete CONTROL of ALL
contents - since the end of World War One, roughly 85 years
or more than four generations and longer than most folks'
lifespan. With such a long-running TOTALLY CONTROLLED
information source, the League has established themselves
as a virtual monopoly on "what is good for amateurism."
[the League knows what is best for you...etc., etc., etc]

With such a fantastic environment for conditioned thinking,
it is NOT remarkable that lots of folks Believe in all that
the ARRL dictates. They became a virtual Big Brother for
U.S. amateur radio, a personification of Orwell's "1984"
novel of the 1920s. It's not a "conspiracy theory." It is
out in the open and has been for years. Before the Internet
went public in 1991 the ARRL was *the* interface for the
radio amateur and his/her government radio regulating agency.

Times have changed remarkably. First of all, the REST of
the radio world wasn't looking to any ARRL to advance the
state of the art of radio communication...they simply went
ahead and DID it. The REST OF THE RADIO WORLD pioneered
the "shortwaves", SSB radio, TTY-RTTY-RATT, FM voice, TV
and facsimile, microwave and orbiting satellite radio
relay, moon bounce...and international networks as public
access communications providers before the amateur "NTS"
became successful. The maritime world now uses SSB voice
and TOR data on open water...and VHF voice on inland,
in-shore communications...the "sparkies" are a memory.
Police departments were testing FM voice radios before
we got into WW2 and set the pattern for ALL public safety
agencies' mobile radio communications; they just didn't
bother with any morsemanship (except in certain reported
midwestern states) for 24/7 emergency communications (that
happen every day across the country). The brainwashing
that "CW is necessary for emergency comms" is TOTAL MORSE
MYTH a la conditioned thinking in this new millennium; the
Titanic tragedy happened 93 years ago, two years before the
ARRL was ever formed (originally as a private group to
hack telegraphic providers by doing their own "message
relay" - from ARRL's own history).

The history of the REST of the radio world has been made
and is documented fact for anyone who bothers to look...
there's an enormous amount of it. The ARRL, if it bothers
to mention any of it at all, will gloss over that and
imply that "amateurs pioneered it all" which is patently
untrue. But, the myths still exist in many minds who
accept the conditioned thinking wash-and-scrub as "fact"
because anything else is Against what they WANT to Believe.

Some want the amateur radio hobby to be something noble,
glorious, and IMPORTANT...perhaps with TITLES so that they
can be "better" than others. They are wannabe SERVICEMEN
in some imaginary uniform "serving their country" by doing
a radio hobby! [they are either on a round-the-world
ego trip or need to rationalize all the money and time
spent on the hobby] THAT sort of thinking can't be over-
come by logic or normal reasoning...without having the
medical psychiatric smarts to restore sanity. Ain't
enough gray-cell soap in the world to make them come
clean in a short time. Gonna take a lonnnnng period of
scrubbing.

boo ego

wrote:
From: John Smith on Wed 17 Aug 2005 09:06

AOF:

The fcc has an avenue where ideas for change, restructuring and progress
can be introduced.

Er, John, the FCC is the ONLY avenue to travel.

Poor Lennie.

Can't stand it that there ARE other avenues "where ideas for
change, restructuring and progress" may be "introduced".

Means he can't remind us of how impotent he is.

Snipped 107 lines of ranting about the discussion procees and
Lennie's trademark swipes and insults at Amateur Radio.

Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

From: "K4YZ" on Wed, Aug 17 2005 4:01 pm

wrote:
From: John Smith on Wed 17 Aug 2005 09:06


The fcc has an avenue where ideas for change, restructuring and progress
can be introduced.

Er, John, the FCC is the ONLY avenue to travel.

Poor Lennie.

I'm not "poor," little Stebie, rather reasonably well-off,
NO liens at all, wife and I just bought a new car, we both
have income other than Social Security. We own two houses,
one in Los Angeles, the other in Kitsap County, WA...no
mortgages on either.


Can't stand it that there ARE other avenues "where ideas for
change, restructuring and progress" may be "introduced".

Incorrect. There are MANY avenues for change, restructuring
and progress. For civilian radio there is ONLY ONE and that
ONE is the Federal Communications Commission for U.S.
citizens.

In recent amateur radio history, FCC 99-412 was the Report
and Order that ordered the latest "Restructuring" of U.S.
amateur radio regulations. That was commented on by over
2300 documents from citizens under WT Docket 98-143. More
recent were the EIGHTEEN Petitions for Rulemaking, some of
which were DENIED in FCC 05-143 and the International Morse
Code test element 1 elimination being THE singular topic of
WT Docket 05-235. As of midnight EDT 16 August 2005 there
were no less than 1646 documents filed in WT Docket 05-235.

Amateur radio regulations were NOT a topic of discussions
at a neighborhood meeting of our City Councilwoman two
weeks ago at the All-Saints Church parish hall. They
won't be at Congressman Brad Sherman's Town Meeting next
week in Northridge, CA. Do you think amateur radio regs
SHOULD be discussed there? If so, state WHY.

Means he can't remind us of how impotent he is.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to worry, LITTLE Stebie, in a real discussion of real
issues affecting the community, I can "get it up" (so to
speak) on DISCUSSIONS with relevant facts and figures to
support my views. I'm used to it, can do it effectively.

One thing I do NOT do is - like your sexual innuendo
misdirection - try to divert the discussion into some
mean-spirited self-frustrated ATTACK on other personalities.
While that serves to temporarily HIDE YOU on your lack of
facts and logic on the SUBJECT under discussion, it is by
no means any sort of positive attribute for yourself. It is
rather a negative attribute that shows how shallow and
ignorant you are with all that emotional instability of
hatred manifesting itself at every opportunity.

Putz.

Giving it back to you in your own style - 4 Q :-)

own imp

wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Wed, Aug 17 2005 4:01 pm

wrote:
From: John Smith on Wed 17 Aug 2005 09:06


The fcc has an avenue where ideas for change, restructuring and progress
can be introduced.

Er, John, the FCC is the ONLY avenue to travel.

Poor Lennie.

I'm not "poor," little Stebie, rather reasonably well-off,
NO liens at all, wife and I just bought a new car, we both
have income other than Social Security. We own two houses,
one in Los Angeles, the other in Kitsap County, WA...no
mortgages on either.

Sure you are.

Oh, I am sure you have the material things you claim, but that's
ALL you have.

You're a proven liar, a miscreant who's word is worthless.

So congratulations on your wise financial investments. Because
your "word" wouldn't buy you a cup of coffee in a free soup kitchen.

Can't stand it that there ARE other avenues "where ideas for
change, restructuring and progress" may be "introduced".

Incorrect. There are MANY avenues for change, restructuring
and progress. For civilian radio there is ONLY ONE and that
ONE is the Federal Communications Commission for U.S.
citizens.

Your "incorrect" is untrue.

That there are discussions in THIS forum for those very issues
disproves your assertion.

SNIP

Amateur radio regulations were NOT a topic of discussions
at a neighborhood meeting of our City Councilwoman two
weeks ago at the All-Saints Church parish hall.

Why shoud they be? Why COULDN'T they be?

But does that make "untrue" my claim that there ARE other avenues
for change of Amateur regulations?

That it eventually winds up in the FCC's lap is a certainty, but
is it your contention that the FCC's NPRM/R&O is the ONLY forum for
those changes?

They won't be at Congressman Brad Sherman's Town Meeting next
week in Northridge, CA. Do you think amateur radio regs
SHOULD be discussed there? If so, state WHY.

Why not?

Is Congressman Sherman NOT elected for the purpose of representing
your issues and concerns to the government? Is there some list of
topics somewhere that says you can't discuss federal regulations with
your elected representitive in a public forum?

Means he can't remind us of how impotent he is.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to worry, LITTLE Stebie, in a real discussion of real
issues affecting the community, I can "get it up" (so to
speak) on DISCUSSIONS with relevant facts and figures to
support my views. I'm used to it, can do it effectively.

Some of the worlds most destructive powers got to be that way with
the spoken word, not a gun.

That you can "baffle 'em with BS" doesn't make it true...It just
means you baffle well.

One thing I do NOT do is - like your sexual innuendo
misdirection - try to divert the discussion into some
mean-spirited self-frustrated ATTACK on other personalities.

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
!

THAT'S ONE OF YOUR MOST OUTRAGEOUS, ABSOLUTLEY IDIOTIC AND
TRANSPARENT LIES E V E R LENNIE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
! ! ! ! ! ! !

While that serves to temporarily HIDE YOU on your lack of
facts and logic on the SUBJECT under discussion, it is by
no means any sort of positive attribute for yourself.

READ WHAT YOU JUST WROTE THEN TRY TO LIVE IT, LENNIE ! ! ! ! ! !


It is
rather a negative attribute that shows how shallow and
ignorant you are with all that emotional instability of
hatred manifesting itself at every opportunity.

Well, THERE YOU GO! Ya just diagnosed yourself!

Putz.

Giving it back to you in your own style - 4 Q

Hardly!

Putz!



Steve, K4YZ

AOF:

You know, there is an experiment which was done in the pursuit of studying
animal behavior and psychology: (and lets' face it, humans are animals)

A frog was tossed into a pan of water which was dis-comfortably warm--he
jumped out immediately to seek a cooler spot.

A frog was tossed into a pan of water which as dangerously warm--same
occurred, frog left for cooler areas.

Now, a frog is placed into a pan of nice cool water to its' liking, and
the water ever so slowly warmed. Even when the temperature climbs to the
point where the frog expires, rolls over, and becomes SK (no more croaks
ever!) it remains within the pan of water. All of the biological
safeguards which uncounted eons of time had given that frog to escape
danger have been defeated, and all because it happened so gradually...

So is the saga of amateur radio... and it has taken decades... now comes
the wake-up call.

John

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:58:12 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:

Should Hams in their operator respect the intent of the rules or just
obey the letter?

Should hams Hide behind the rules or stand up and say you know I think
this is right and the rules are wrong

Are we self policing or not?

Should we be self policing?

John I have had to sit in class and watch that one on film, I dropped
the class the next day

AOF:

Well, the experiment is continuing. Such an experiment began with the
"Radio Act of 1912" when the first amateur license was issued, it
continues to this day and beyond... a review of the data gained after
close to 100 years should show us what has been done right, and what is in
need of change...

John

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:15:30 -0700, an old friend wrote:

John I have had to sit in class and watch that one on film, I dropped
the class the next day

AOF:

.... make note, I do see your point.

The poor frog gave its' all to teach us an important lesson--and so few
have ever paid attention... waste of a damn good frog if you ask me!

John

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:15:30 -0700, an old friend wrote:

John I have had to sit in class and watch that one on film, I dropped
the class the next day

an_old_friend wrote:
Should Hams in their operator respect the intent of the rules or just
obey the letter?

Should hams Hide behind the rules or stand up and say you know I think
this is right and the rules are wrong

Are we self policing or not?

Should we be self policing?

The problem I have with some of the rules is that they are too vague.

Todd N9OGL

N9OGL keyed in his worry of, "The problem I have with some of the rules is
that they are too vague."

John thought, "Well, that beats those who don't like the rules because
they don't demand what the person in questions believes "should be." Or,
wants rules instituted which are conductive to that persons wants and
personal desires."

John further hoped this was no ones intent here, control and establishing
rules for personal likes/dis-likes of that person and/or his group of
"good ole buddies"--but being of a naturally suspicious nature, John kept
one eye open...

John

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:36:57 -0700, N9OGL wrote:

The problem I have with some of the rules is that they are too vague.