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Dan:
I know it may seem that way, but gentlemen have not died off, they are just not found in radio anymore... frown John On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:46:14 +0000, Dan/W4NTI wrote: "Bill Sohl" wrote in message ink.net... "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... robert casey wrote: I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No digital, etc. That way those that want can. We could and should do this as a gentlemen's' agreement. No need for FCC micromanagement here. well in the eyes of those that see CW under attack they do see still see a need for a coded reservation, and they fear that they will lose everything out side of it Yet the reality of today is that except for two VHF bands, 50.0 MHz to 50.1 and 144.0 MHz to 144.1, there are no other exclusive CW segments at all. Cheers, Bill K2UNK Very true Bill. The gentlemans agreements worked....then. Not anymore. The gentlemen have died off, and the CBers have replaced them. Think about it. Dan/W4NTI |
David Stinson wrote: wrote: Hang onto your "extra" license obtained through morsemanship, Jimmie. It may be all you'll have in the future to show your "greatness" in AMATEUR radio..,.. Amazing how bitter some people can be when confronted with their indolence.... Wherever the bee in Lennie's bonnet came from, David, it must have been a big one. My whole theory is that he never achieved the "recognition" that he thought he deserved from his professional colleagues. He was never professionally published nor was he the recipient of any award of any importance. Seeing a possible light at the end of his dismal tunnel, Lennie tied his fortunes to "Ham Radio" magazine where he did enjoy getting some bylines, however he still did not get the "recognition" he felt entitled to. That only further incurred his wrath since we are "mere amateurs", incapable of understanding the complexities of RF theory and practice. The result has been a near-decade long rant against anything and everything that is "Amateur Radio" related. Nothing done by/with/for Amateur Radio/Amateur Radio Operators is "worthy" or "valid". Anyone with an Extra class licesne is a "thug", "jackboot", "Nazi", "elitist", etc etc etc. He IS a putz. 73 Steve, K4YZ |
K4YZ wrote:
The result has been a near-decade long rant against anything and everything that is "Amateur Radio" related. Nothing done by/with/for Amateur Radio/Amateur Radio Operators is "worthy" or "valid". Anyone with an Extra class licesne is a "thug", "jackboot", "Nazi", "elitist", etc etc etc. Alas, Steve; the world is full of people like that, who don't understand why they should not be *given* that for which they have not worked and which they have not earned. They become bitter and hateful adults (being forced to give up taunting and pitching fits after about 16... one would hope). They have other sociopathic characteristics, as well. Probably raised by "Dr. Spock" parents. D.S. |
David Stinson wrote: KY4Z wrote: The result has been a near-decade long rant against anything and everything that is "Amateur Radio" related. Nothing done by/with/for Amateur Radio/Amateur Radio Operators is "worthy" or "valid". Anyone with an Extra class licesne is a "thug", "jackboot", "Nazi", "elitist", etc etc etc. Alas, Steve; the world is full of people like that, who don't understand why they should not be *given* that for which they have not worked and which they have not earned. They become bitter and hateful adults Ah yes another of the Robeson S&M school of licenses (being forced to give up taunting and pitching fits after about 16... one would hope). Well Stevie still hasn't given up on it at 51 They have other sociopathic characteristics, as well. Probably raised by "Dr. Spock" parents. D.S. |
AOF:
I think new inductees should have to demonstrate the ability to walk on hot coals and broken glass... nice to be entertained... John On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 18:35:05 -0700, an_old_friend wrote: David Stinson wrote: KY4Z wrote: The result has been a near-decade long rant against anything and everything that is "Amateur Radio" related. Nothing done by/with/for Amateur Radio/Amateur Radio Operators is "worthy" or "valid". Anyone with an Extra class licesne is a "thug", "jackboot", "Nazi", "elitist", etc etc etc. Alas, Steve; the world is full of people like that, who don't understand why they should not be *given* that for which they have not worked and which they have not earned. They become bitter and hateful adults Ah yes another of the Robeson S&M school of licenses (being forced to give up taunting and pitching fits after about 16... one would hope). Well Stevie still hasn't given up on it at 51 They have other sociopathic characteristics, as well. Probably raised by "Dr. Spock" parents. D.S. |
From: David Stinson on Aug 20, 5:34 pm
K4YZ wrote: The result has been a near-decade long rant against anything and everything that is "Amateur Radio" related. Nothing done by/with/for Amateur Radio/Amateur Radio Operators is "worthy" or "valid". Anyone with an Extra class licesne is a "thug", "jackboot", "Nazi", "elitist", etc etc etc. Alas, Steve; the world is full of people like that, who don't understand why they should not be *given* that for which they have not worked and which they have not earned. David, you are relatively new to THIS din of inequity and haven't been exposed to the Wrath of Stevie when you have Opposed his personal opinions! :-) Robeson has seldom, very seldom argued a SUBJECT in here, choosing instead to launch a series of Personal Attacks on anyone daring to oppose him on anything. Some Google searching will show that in sufficient quantity (thousands of postings insulting others) to bear that out. [the best referene on his personal frustrations anguish, and hatred displayed for all to see] In the last eight years in here, I've written (and opined) that United States amateur radio activity is interesting and fun for those who take a real part in it, for their personal enjoyment as an avocational pursuit. Having BEGUN HF radio communications in 1953 and NEVER having had to use/operate/know morse code then or at any time in a successful career as an electronics design engineer (I am retired - from regular hours), I feel that morse code testing for a radio AMATEUR license is unwarranted and the mystique around it ridiculous. If you wish to see where I began in communications 52 years ago: http://kauko.hallikainen.org/history...s/My3Years.pdf They become bitter and hateful adults (being forced to give up taunting and pitching fits after about 16... one would hope). David, you are free to think anything you wish of me, but in the reality of the newsgroup, it won't matter a great deal to me. I will remain as outspoken as ever. :-) All that nastygrams do is to take up space and a tiny amount of time in showing just how vacuuous and puerile such commentary is... They have other sociopathic characteristics, as well. Robeson's long history of postings in here reads like a Psych 101 introductory precis on Sociopathy. :-) Probably raised by "Dr. Spock" parents. Not in my case. :-) I was raised by naturalized citizen (born in Sweden) parents in the 1930s and 1940s. Benjamin Spock probably had not yet entered college yet...and certainly hadn't begun any PhD Dissertation. :-) David, you were born in 1957 and are 48 years old. I have MORE years as an adult working for a living than you have in total life experience. Now, I've read your Comment on WT Docket 05-235 and agree with you that morse code testing has no place in federal amateur radio licensing examinations. On the veneration of morse code itself, we differ markedly. We can confine any public discussions on WT Docket 05-235 to that and avoid personal squabbling such as demonstrated by Robeson and Jeswald...or not. Your choice. But, "ya gotta know da territory!" first... :-) RTF NCM |
David, you are relatively new to THIS din of inequity and haven't
been exposed to the Wrath of Stevie when you have Opposed his personal opinions! :-) Yes, leave it to a self-proclaimed, loquatious oldster to say in seven paragraphs that which could be said in a single sentence. Brevity and humility are not in Lennie's dictionary. Flatulence, on the other hand...... |
an_old_friend wrote: David Stinson wrote: KY4Z wrote: The result has been a near-decade long rant against anything and everything that is "Amateur Radio" related. Nothing done by/with/for Amateur Radio/Amateur Radio Operators is "worthy" or "valid". Anyone with an Extra class licesne is a "thug", "jackboot", "Nazi", "elitist", etc etc etc. Alas, Steve; the world is full of people like that, who don't understand why they should not be *given* that for which they have not worked and which they have not earned. They become bitter and hateful adults Ah yes another of the Robeson S&M school of licenses Science and Mechanics? Because the only "pain" I am "into" is pain RELIEF. (being forced to give up taunting and pitching fits after about 16... one would hope). Well Stevie still hasn't given up on it at 51 Who's 51? Steve, K4YZ |
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David Stinson wrote: wrote: .... We can confine any public discussions on WT Docket 05-235 to that and avoid personal squabbling such as demonstrated by Robeson and Jeswald...or not. Your choice. But, "ya gotta know da territory!" first... :-) A careful reading of my post (and it was written carefully, just because of this) will show that I did not aim it specifically at you, though it was easy to imply, I suppose. I said "people like" those he mentioned. Though I do admit your first post within the tread read "tart" to me, so I added a little lemon to mine, as well ;-). I don't know you, Mr. Anderson, any more than I know Steve, but it's a good bet you have both halo and horns at the same time, just like everyone else on UseNet. Some have more one than the other, and at different times. But we can discuss this issue despite harps and pitchforks. I believe that Morse Code deserves preservation on two counts: 1. It has proven simple, practical and useful for 160+ years. That *you* have not used it, or that I have, is irrelevant. A very great many have, and successfully, over a long time. Bicycles are also "old technology," but that does not invalidate them as a simple and reliable means of transportation. A large fraction of humanity uses them, because they do not have the luxury of expensive automobiles and gas. Continuing within the context of such a society (or what an more wealthy society can certainly become, as anyone in South Africa can tell you): One must practice and develop skill in using a bicycle, if he wants to get around faster than walking. If one is unwilling to do the work and take the occasional fall needed to become a proficient bicycle rider, then they must accept walking. It is foolish and futile for those who have chosen to walk to curse those riding bicycles and the bicycles themselves. It is also foolish and short-sighted to take for granted that, once one has an SUV, that the need to ride a bicycle will never come again. On such a day, If *all* have forgotten how to ride, than all of us shall walk. If even a few are rewarded for remembering how to ride, they can teach the many. break 2. Historic preservation. There are some who place no value on spending assets to preserve touch-stones of humanity's progress. Most of us do, which is why we spend money and labor preserving "obsolete" ships, aircraft, telephones, steam engines, etc. All of them take money and work to preserve. Morse Code has been at least as important as the development of the telephone, radio and even the internet, having been the first "real-time" means of knitting-together the globe. I submit that is a valid reason to incentivize its preservation, and that my proposal is an inexpensive, efficient and reasonable means of doing so. But most of the money we spend are rasied form private sources with occasional expenses of public money. you want to set aside of the few things we can't buy or make any more of Spend your effort effort if you like but frist show that Morse is in any real danger before expecting to me to chip in for something that is what is the Value of the Spectrum you propose to set aside soley for Morse Code, without of course vacating its use from the rest of the ARS spectrum 73 Dave AB5S |
David:
No where in amateur radios mission statement is anything mentioned about a purpose to be "amateur museum-ists." CW will stand or fall upon its own merits. If there are amateurs who wish to collect ancient forms of communications (african messages drum, indian smoke signals, message arrow, morse code, etc) they should do so on their own. John On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:14:53 +0000, David Stinson wrote: wrote: .... We can confine any public discussions on WT Docket 05-235 to that and avoid personal squabbling such as demonstrated by Robeson and Jeswald...or not. Your choice. But, "ya gotta know da territory!" first... :-) A careful reading of my post (and it was written carefully, just because of this) will show that I did not aim it specifically at you, though it was easy to imply, I suppose. I said "people like" those he mentioned. Though I do admit your first post within the tread read "tart" to me, so I added a little lemon to mine, as well ;-). I don't know you, Mr. Anderson, any more than I know Steve, but it's a good bet you have both halo and horns at the same time, just like everyone else on UseNet. Some have more one than the other, and at different times. But we can discuss this issue despite harps and pitchforks. I believe that Morse Code deserves preservation on two counts: 1. It has proven simple, practical and useful for 160+ years. That *you* have not used it, or that I have, is irrelevant. A very great many have, and successfully, over a long time. Bicycles are also "old technology," but that does not invalidate them as a simple and reliable means of transportation. A large fraction of humanity uses them, because they do not have the luxury of expensive automobiles and gas. Continuing within the context of such a society (or what an more wealthy society can certainly become, as anyone in South Africa can tell you): One must practice and develop skill in using a bicycle, if he wants to get around faster than walking. If one is unwilling to do the work and take the occasional fall needed to become a proficient bicycle rider, then they must accept walking. It is foolish and futile for those who have chosen to walk to curse those riding bicycles and the bicycles themselves. It is also foolish and short-sighted to take for granted that, once one has an SUV, that the need to ride a bicycle will never come again. On such a day, If *all* have forgotten how to ride, than all of us shall walk. If even a few are rewarded for remembering how to ride, they can teach the many. 2. Historic preservation. There are some who place no value on spending assets to preserve touch-stones of humanity's progress. Most of us do, which is why we spend money and labor preserving "obsolete" ships, aircraft, telephones, steam engines, etc. All of them take money and work to preserve. Morse Code has been at least as important as the development of the telephone, radio and even the internet, having been the first "real-time" means of knitting-together the globe. I submit that is a valid reason to incentivize its preservation, and that my proposal is an inexpensive, efficient and reasonable means of doing so. 73 Dave AB5S |
From: David Stinson on Aug 21, 7:14 am
wrote: .... We can confine any public discussions on WT Docket 05-235 to that and avoid personal squabbling such as demonstrated by Robeson and Jeswald...or not. Your choice. But, "ya gotta know da territory!" first... :-) A careful reading of my post (and it was written carefully, just because of this) will show that I did not aim it specifically at you, though it was easy to imply, I suppose. ALL public postings are OPEN for comment, any newsgroup. ANY kind of postings as you will gather with some experience in here. It's been like that even before ARPANET spun off the newly-created University Net (USENET). I said "people like" those he mentioned. "People like" turns into whatever your reaction is to certain posters. To repeat, you WILL notice the "flavor" of Robeson's "style" in this newsgroup...which is little more than a frustrated, angry person's wanting to turn every single thread into some personal vendetta. Though I do admit your first post within the tread read "tart" to me, so I added a little lemon to mine, as well ;-). Not a problem to me. :-) That's the "territory." I don't know you, Mr. Anderson, any more than I know Steve, but it's a good bet you have both halo and horns at the same time, just like everyone else on UseNet. Some have more one than the other, and at different times. Irrelevant, really. The SUBJECTS are not quantified or qualified by personal attacks against others. Yet, they are colored and flavored and chopped into meaningless puerile babble by a few who must vent their aggressions, caring little for anyone but themselves. But we can discuss this issue despite harps and pitchforks. Absolutely! [but...:-)...the harps will be discordant and the pitchforks jabbed by others in their obsessive need to fight] I believe that Morse Code deserves preservation on two counts: 1. It has proven simple, practical and useful for 160+ years. That *you* have not used it, or that I have, is irrelevant. A very great many have, and successfully, over a long time. Also true is that morse code has been SUPPLANTED, displaced, replaced by more efficient means of communication by humans in all radio AND wired venues...except in the avocational activities of radio hobbyists. Insofar as WT Docket 05-235 is concerned, that issue is solely about Test Element 1 of the U.S. amateur radio license examination. Anything other than elimination or retention of Test Element 1 in regards to morsemanship skills can be regarded as personal polemics that reach far beyond the subject. A closer examination of the history of Al Vail's contribution to the "morse code" shows merely that it is a representation of the English language characters used in a PRIMITIVE technology. One can only describe the original Morse-Vail Telegraph System as Primitive (with a capital P). One can only describe the OLD radio of 1896, the one without any active amplification devices as PRIMITIVE. At the time, some 109 years ago, about the ONLY practical means of using this new communications medium called "radio" (later description) was by ON-OFF KEYING. Since this landline morse code was then mature, past the 50-year mark, and had spread throughout most of the earth, is was practical to ADAPT it for radio communication. ADAPTATION is all that it was, not some "magick" conjured up by techno-wizards of the century before last. That "many used it" in the latter half of the 1800s is more due to it being BETTER THAN WHAT WAS USED FOR COMMUNICATIONS BEFORE. The ONLY other means of instantaneous communications farther than audible means was optical, by semaphore vanes or flags, those being rendered ineffective by bad weather occluding the optical path. The Morse-Vail Telegraph System, patented largely through the "relay" part of their invention, was practical (for its time) and "efficient" (relative only to all other means of very-fast communications) despite an enormous (then) infrastructure of WIRE...wire that had to be strung on poles above ground due to as-yet undeveloped long-lasting insulation material. Expense was large for this infrastructure then but, the public it served was willing to pay for services rendered. It was BETTER THAN WHAT WAS USED FOR COMMUNICATIONS BEFORE. As the Morse-Vail Telegraph System spread throughout the globe, a great many operators became proficient in this "morsemanship" skill. The period of 1844 to 1896 encompasses nearly three generations of "operators." That is certainly sufficient time to develop a set of skills on par with any other craft of that time, but a specialized one. It has no qualifications of being "better than" or "lesser than" any other skill of humans then. What did the Morse-Vail Telegraph System displace? The various optical means used in Europe and Great Britain, all of which required a heavy burden of infrastructure support. The horseback courier, a most common means of surface communications well before the overly-storied Pony Express (a short-lived system). The common paper letter postal system in part, those postings being carried by any means available. The then-cheap Morse-Vail Telegraph could reach about 100 miles maximum for a single circuit of one operator at each end. A much more expensive version (through underwater cable) could increase that distance ten times, but at only a slight reduction in throughput (rate of communications transmission)...still faster than by ship surface transport. The telegraph was BETTER THAN WHAT WAS USED BEFORE. Enter "radio" as demonstrated in Italy and Russia in 1896. It was telegraphy WITHOUT wires. No expensive infrastructure of wires on poles and the unattended relay stations, no squabbles over rights-of-way of the telegraph lines. Even better, it could be used on water! The maritime world loved it...it was something THEY NEVER HAD BEFORE...a means of instant communications BEYOND the horizon! Incredible invention embraced whole-heartedly by navies and deep-water shipping then. A miracle of the times. RADIOTELEGRAPHY WAS BETTER THAN WHAT WAS USED BEFORE. However, all was not as wonderful with land-based telegraphy at the turn of the last century. Manual telegraphy itself was being displaced, replaced by the PRINTING telegraph, the teleprinter. Teleprinter circuits were as long as the manual telegraph circuits, still required the wire-pole infrastructure, but the specialist telegrapher was NOT NEEDED at each end. The native written language was conveyed directly, could be read by any literate person, no need for translation into dots and dashes to send, then re-translation back to the written language on receipt. Telegraphers were being "downsized," displaced by something BETTER THAN WHAT WAS USED BEFORE. Manual telegraphers turned to this new "radio." They could use their skills and craft in a new medium with minimal adaptation. The technology of "electronics" was then sufficiently primitive that the manual telegrapher specialist could generally learn this new "technology" and to operate the primitive controls. Early radio was a godsend to the displaced telegrapher specialist. However, technology did not stop with this magical new means of communication. The invention of the vacuum tube now made radio of far greater sensitivity, thus longer range, clean power amplification in transmitters, and it enabled VOICE transmission! Voice, nearly as clear as the land-line telephone, instantaneous, understandable to anyone speaking the language. New modes of communication opened up. The land-line teleprinter was adapted for use over radio. Those new modes were BETTER THAN WHAT WAS USED BEFORE (radiotelegraphy). "Radio" has been in CONTINUAL EVOLUTION over its quite-short lifespan barely over a century of time. Those who worship the beginnings of anything may embrace the first mode of radio, telegraphy, but that is solely on emotional, subjective terms. Radiotelegraphy came about ONLY because the on-off nature of telegraph transmission was suited to the primitive technology of ealy radio. EVOLUTION is a natural course of events, a sort of "Darwinism" applied to technology, humankind adopting what is BETTER THAN USED BEFORE. Bicycles are also "old technology," but that does not invalidate them as a simple and reliable means of transportation. The general sublect of TRANSPORT is not involved in WT Docket 05-235. In the subject of transport, HORSES were used as a simple and reliable means of transportation for CENTURIES before the evolution of metalworking and machinery made the bicycle possible. See two-wheeled chariots of the Roman Empire time, centuries past, all "powered" by horses. A large fraction of humanity uses them, because they do not have the luxury of expensive automobiles and gas. Horses can graze off the land, avoiding cost of feed. They can also reproduce themselves, thus avoiding costs of manufacturing. Continuing within the context of such a society (or what an more wealthy society can certainly become, as anyone in South Africa can tell you): One must practice and develop skill in using a bicycle, if he wants to get around faster than walking. In trying to get back to "radio," the invention of the manually wound spring generator radio receiver happened in South Africa. For that matter, while few written records exist to verify it, middle Africa had the "jungle telegraph" of drum rhythm representation of spoken native languages for centuries... If one is unwilling to do the work and take the occasional fall needed to become a proficient bicycle rider, then they must accept walking. Not a problem. Walking is as natural to humans as speech. We learn that as infants and progress in such things as we grow up. It is foolish and futile for those who have chosen to walk to curse those riding bicycles and the bicycles themselves. [that's beginning to sound like some Sunday School morality lesson...:-) ] Is anyone "cursing" riding bicycles? Other than on streets, that is? I think not. The parable of the bicycle is overdone. It is also foolish and short-sighted to take for granted that, once one has an SUV, that the need to ride a bicycle will never come again. While I've never driven an SUV nor do I own a bicycle, I was as fully qualified to drive an ancient "SUV" called the "Jeep" plus the "three-quarter-ton" truck and "deuce-and-a-half" (2 1/2 ton) truck in the military...as carrying a 70-pound field pack with a AN/PRC-6 handheld transceiver and personal weapon in the Army. I have never "sat" a horse nor do I intend to, yet horses have been used for human transport for centuries. [there are more horses in all of southern California than there are in the country of Sweden...as my late father used to remark with some humor] I do not venerate horses - which were there and used LONG before the bicycle - but can appreciate the feelings of horse lovers. On such a day, If *all* have forgotten how to ride, than all of us shall walk. Not a problem. Walking is fine, healthy personal transport. If even a few are rewarded for remembering how to ride, they can teach the many. "Always begin with the left foot" is a basic instruction in military close-order drill. Not a problem. :-) I must have learned walking as an infant, not remembering the empirical data derivation method of self-teaching since it has always been very natural. Humans ARE capable of self-learning a great many things. 2. Historic preservation. There are some who place no value on spending assets to preserve touch-stones of humanity's progress. I support the IEEE History section and regularly receive their bulletin/newsletter (containing "Static from the Editor" editorials). Marconi and Popov are given their rightful place in electronics history as are all the greats, the innovators, the inventors, the true pioneers of the electronics world such as James Clerk Maxwell and Heinrich Hertz and Lee de Forest and Edwin Armstrong (the troubled genius) and many, many others. Most of us do, which is why we spend money and labor preserving "obsolete" ships, aircraft, telephones, steam engines, etc. All of them take money and work to preserve. Morse Code has been at least as important as the development of the telephone, radio and even the internet, having been the first "real-time" means of knitting-together the globe. I prefer the Morse-Vail Telegraph System rather than just the manual telegraphic code used ON it. Without the "relay" of that invention, it would bave been limited to relatively short distances on land. I submit that is a valid reason to incentivize its preservation, and that my proposal is an inexpensive, efficient and reasonable means of doing so. The Federal Communications Commission is NOT chartered by law of Congress as a "historical preservation agency." There ALREADY exist a number of museums containing artifacts and recorded history of telegraphy all over the world. There exist at least a half dozen computer programs that permit self-learning of cognition of the "morse code' sound patterns, three of which are in use at the Military Intelligence School at Fort Huachuca, AZ, to train military intercept operators. I see NONE of that "incentivization" as being ANY reason for the retention of a Living Museum of Archaic Radiotelegraphy through federally-required radio operator licensing, commercial or amateur. I see the above as merely a desperate attempt to preserve a purely personal desire for a mode which is evolving out of practical existance...and has done so in every other civil radio service in the United States of America. Much of the "incentivization" by others on WT Docket 05-235 has been nothing more than transparent rationalization of their desire to maintain their PERSONAL rank-status-privileges, to keep the status as much quo as possible out of fear that changes in regulations will reduce their rank and status. May be fine for a clubhouse environment but NOT for federal laws and regulations applicable to ALL citizens. bit bat |
From: Dan/W4NTI on Aug 20, 3:58 pm
I no longer care to waste my time with you Lennie. You are Anti-Amateur Radio. No, just anti-PCTA. :-) You have no reason to be in this group. Feel free to "throw me out." :-) Other than to sew hate and discontent. Incomplete sentence, Jeswald. I'm not a tailor. If you can't take sew much, then leave. It's obvious that the newsgroup is not for your kind. shrug You don't even have a license or any experience in Amateur Radio at all. I have NO amateur radio license. I have a Commercial radio license. I have lots of experience in radio. Is AMATEUR radio "different" than all other radio? I think not. Thus your comments and input are of no interest to me. Translation: You are totally ****ed off because you can't "get" me. Nor should they be to any other person here. Incomplete or faulty sentence. This group is NOT exclusively for the PCTA or the morsemen. In other words I no longer give a rip what you say or think. Tsk, tsk. You lie in your teeth. :-) Have a nice life. I do. Every day, every night. :-) Lennie's idiotic comments deleted plonk Dannie boy take his balls and go home, no play no more? Awwww... bye bye |
plonk
wrote in message ups.com... |
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: Even today....well actually for many years....the 80 meter band is a classic example of wasted space. Mostly dead air in the "CW" allocations. In particular from 3.5 to 3.6. I think you meant "3.6 to 3.7" No I didn't....I don't consider 5 CW stations in 100 KC over use of a segement. Or should I say "Use of a segement". Nets are there for sure, but not for long. Then the band is dead again. Lots of open space from 3.6 to 3.750 if you want to be open minded on this subject. All of 80 meters is open to digital modes. You know, the modes all those new, young, modern hams are going to use when Element 1 goes away. If there's so much room, then what's the problem making 3500 to 3575 Morse Code only? Because we don't use it now. 25 on the bottom of all bands is plenty IF it is CW exclusive to ALL classes. Is 80 meters full of digital signals? Or is it equally underused by those modes as well? 40 is another case and it is gonna be real tough to put that mess straight.. hi. Not really. The mess is due to the rest of the world wanting 7100-7300 for SWBC. That's going away, even as we speak, and more and more of the rest of the world is letting their hams have 7100-7200. Eventually 7000-7300 will be worldwide exclusive amateur. So what's the problem with 7000-7050 being Morse Code only? See above The band is 300 kHz wide. 50 kHz is 16%. There are plenty of times - noncontest times - when 40 is one Morse Code signal after another from 7000 to 7050. And that's with cascaded 8 pole 500 Hz filters in the rx. 20/15/10 could all use some "CW Trimming" today. Let's cut to the chase. It's about more room for 'phone and less for Morse Code and digital modes. Some folks talk big about "new directions" and "modernization" and "fresh ideas", but what they really mean is more bandspace for SSB. Is that what is best? More room for SSB and AM, less for CW and digital modes? I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No digital, etc. That way those that want can. Those that don't.....won't. The trouble is that it will take an Extra to get down there. No it won't. Drop the Extra only and be done with that Dinosaur. FCC won't go for that. Read the NPRM - they specifically state that they think 3 license classes is the right number, and that we'll get to three classes by attrition. They specifically denied auto-upgrades, new entry level licenses, etc. They also said that more frequencies was the best incentive. "John Smith" wrote in message ... Band allocation should be allocated on long term statistics generated in regards to the modes used... (past year or two) A year or two is "long tern"? HAW, that's a good one! (Does this guy know what a sunspot cycle is?) Obviously not! As CW continues its' "its". drop, it needs less and less allocations... Who says CW is dropping? as no-coders now enter CW will have to shrink to accommodate the new users and their modes... You mean SSB, right? Because there's no Morse-Code-only subbands on HF-MF in the USA. There should be, though. 15% or so of each band. I'm yet to see one good reason not to do that. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: Even today....well actually for many years....the 80 meter band is a classic example of wasted space. Mostly dead air in the "CW" allocations. In particular from 3.5 to 3.6. I think you meant "3.6 to 3.7" No I didn't....I don't consider 5 CW stations in 100 KC over use of a segement. Or should I say "Use of a segement". Nets are there for sure, but not for long. Then the band is dead again. Lots of open space from 3.6 to 3.750 if you want to be open minded on this subject. All of 80 meters is open to digital modes. You know, the modes all those new, young, modern hams are going to use when Element 1 goes away. If there's so much room, then what's the problem making 3500 to 3575 Morse Code only? Because we don't use it now. 25 on the bottom of all bands is plenty IF it is CW exclusive to ALL classes. Is 80 meters full of digital signals? Or is it equally underused by those modes as well? 80/75 is a seasonal band, as is 160. Summertime activity of any kind is quite low. With the exception of SSB. It is always full up. At least in 4 land anyway. Digital is indeed increasing, but so far are staying above 3575. On occassion I am QRMed from them on the Alabama net, 3575. But they move when they hear activity...to their credit. 40 is another case and it is gonna be real tough to put that mess straight.. hi. Not really. The mess is due to the rest of the world wanting 7100-7300 for SWBC. That's going away, even as we speak, and more and more of the rest of the world is letting their hams have 7100-7200. Eventually 7000-7300 will be worldwide exclusive amateur. So what's the problem with 7000-7050 being Morse Code only? See above The band is 300 kHz wide. 50 kHz is 16%. There are plenty of times - noncontest times - when 40 is one Morse Code signal after another from 7000 to 7050. And that's with cascaded 8 pole 500 Hz filters in the rx. 40 meters is a butchered band. And yes I know that changes are FINALLY on the way. Perhaps when it is a exclusive Amateur allocation (at least for Region 1 and 2) things will improve. But for now it is a complete mess. It is indeed a active band, for all modes. In reality it needs expanded to 7.5 or so. But that will never happen. 20/15/10 could all use some "CW Trimming" today. Let's cut to the chase. It's about more room for 'phone and less for Morse Code and digital modes. Some folks talk big about "new directions" and "modernization" and "fresh ideas", but what they really mean is more bandspace for SSB. Is that what is best? More room for SSB and AM, less for CW and digital modes? I don't know what is "best". I would just like to see a clean spot for CW only. That is a personal choice, nothing more. Whether I get it is another story. I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No digital, etc. That way those that want can. Those that don't.....won't. The trouble is that it will take an Extra to get down there. No it won't. Drop the Extra only and be done with that Dinosaur. FCC won't go for that. Read the NPRM - they specifically state that they think 3 license classes is the right number, and that we'll get to three classes by attrition. They specifically denied auto-upgrades, new entry level licenses, etc. Then only extra's do CW. I have no solution for that. If the FCC don't want it, it won't happen. They also said that more frequencies was the best incentive. The FCC has NO IDEA what is good for Ham radio. Nor do they give a RIP. Dan/W4NTI |
"an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Dan/W4NTI wrote: cut There should be, though. 15% or so of each band. I'm yet to see one good reason not to do that. I have yet to see a reason good or otherwise to do so All I see is bunch of folks still promoting th idea that they and thier specail mode deserve protections and prevledges deined the rest of us So what is wrong with that? Everyone promotes their own thing. Dan/W4NTI |
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Dan/W4NTI wrote: cut There should be, though. 15% or so of each band. I'm yet to see one good reason not to do that. I have yet to see a reason good or otherwise to do so All I see is bunch of folks still promoting th idea that they and thier specail mode deserve protections and prevledges deined the rest of us So what is wrong with that? Everyone promotes their own thing Then you are sick Not everyone promotes thier own thing over the interest of the public Dan/W4NTI |
Dan:
What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! Disgusting really... and yes, I remember a time when it was NOT this way, you had a few anti-social weirdos who were loners and thought themselves special because of a hobby license, but that seems to have become catching and has almost infected the whole lot, the sane ones are rather few and far between these days... "Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder", is going to be the title of a book I am working on! grin John On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:48:24 +0000, Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: Even today....well actually for many years....the 80 meter band is a classic example of wasted space. Mostly dead air in the "CW" allocations. In particular from 3.5 to 3.6. I think you meant "3.6 to 3.7" No I didn't....I don't consider 5 CW stations in 100 KC over use of a segement. Or should I say "Use of a segement". Nets are there for sure, but not for long. Then the band is dead again. Lots of open space from 3.6 to 3.750 if you want to be open minded on this subject. All of 80 meters is open to digital modes. You know, the modes all those new, young, modern hams are going to use when Element 1 goes away. If there's so much room, then what's the problem making 3500 to 3575 Morse Code only? Because we don't use it now. 25 on the bottom of all bands is plenty IF it is CW exclusive to ALL classes. Is 80 meters full of digital signals? Or is it equally underused by those modes as well? 80/75 is a seasonal band, as is 160. Summertime activity of any kind is quite low. With the exception of SSB. It is always full up. At least in 4 land anyway. Digital is indeed increasing, but so far are staying above 3575. On occassion I am QRMed from them on the Alabama net, 3575. But they move when they hear activity...to their credit. 40 is another case and it is gonna be real tough to put that mess straight.. hi. Not really. The mess is due to the rest of the world wanting 7100-7300 for SWBC. That's going away, even as we speak, and more and more of the rest of the world is letting their hams have 7100-7200. Eventually 7000-7300 will be worldwide exclusive amateur. So what's the problem with 7000-7050 being Morse Code only? See above The band is 300 kHz wide. 50 kHz is 16%. There are plenty of times - noncontest times - when 40 is one Morse Code signal after another from 7000 to 7050. And that's with cascaded 8 pole 500 Hz filters in the rx. 40 meters is a butchered band. And yes I know that changes are FINALLY on the way. Perhaps when it is a exclusive Amateur allocation (at least for Region 1 and 2) things will improve. But for now it is a complete mess. It is indeed a active band, for all modes. In reality it needs expanded to 7.5 or so. But that will never happen. 20/15/10 could all use some "CW Trimming" today. Let's cut to the chase. It's about more room for 'phone and less for Morse Code and digital modes. Some folks talk big about "new directions" and "modernization" and "fresh ideas", but what they really mean is more bandspace for SSB. Is that what is best? More room for SSB and AM, less for CW and digital modes? I don't know what is "best". I would just like to see a clean spot for CW only. That is a personal choice, nothing more. Whether I get it is another story. I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No digital, etc. That way those that want can. Those that don't.....won't. The trouble is that it will take an Extra to get down there. No it won't. Drop the Extra only and be done with that Dinosaur. FCC won't go for that. Read the NPRM - they specifically state that they think 3 license classes is the right number, and that we'll get to three classes by attrition. They specifically denied auto-upgrades, new entry level licenses, etc. Then only extra's do CW. I have no solution for that. If the FCC don't want it, it won't happen. They also said that more frequencies was the best incentive. The FCC has NO IDEA what is good for Ham radio. Nor do they give a RIP. Dan/W4NTI |
From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm
Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Kind of a low-grade "one-world, one-government" kind of thing, all molded around THEIR concept of how the hobby "is." Dannie can't accept anything else but HIS beliefs. For other, different ideas he gets hostile, volatile, tries to batter the different to the floor tile. Disgusting really... and yes, I remember a time when it was NOT this way, you had a few anti-social weirdos who were loners and thought themselves special because of a hobby license, but that seems to have become catching and has almost infected the whole lot, the sane ones are rather few and far between these days... We differ, John. I can easily remember a mere two decades ago on visiting the Lockheed ARC...when Lockheed was having a lot of difficulties with the state and the city of Burbank. In general a bunch of disheartening, don't-tell-me-nothing-because-we-rule group of "extras" whose major dissatisfaction was really that they were in imminent danger of being on LAY OFF. Lockheed California eventually moved out entire from the Burbank area (a division is still at AF Plant 42 in Palmdale) and ALL the old Lockheed buildings have been razed, hardly any rubble is left. The fabled Skunk Works in Building 82 was one of the first to be torn down. The Lockheed ARC is but a shell of its former self and the laid-off Lockheed workers (who didn't want to go to Georgia) are off muttering in their isolated little corners. The huge Lockheed production complex along Empire Avenue just disappeared and, like a Phoenix from the ashes, the fabulous new Empire Center of many, many stores and services, two office buildings and two hotels grew on the place where all the famous Lockheed aircraft were built. All that remains of Lockheed is the silhouettes of the Vega, the Constellation, the P-38, and the SR-71 on the parking lot section signs. Rebirth. I was reminded of this from yesterday when my wife and I were at a store in the Empire Center. At the large entrance we saw an old geezer regaling a couple of younger women about his work at Lockheed ("over there where building 15 was" "we built airplanes!"). The young women were polite, smiled, but clearly didn't find any interest or amusement at this. Eventually the old geezer wound down and all left. In one way that's the way it will be with U.S. amateur radio. Rebirth. The new replacing the old. The old will become a memory, one not treasured so emotionally as by the old-timers. The future will be different, brighter, full of new things. New leaders will form and lead. New-timers will enjoy the new environment. Oldsters will grouse and bitch, complaining mightily about it not being as good as "the old days." Of course not. "The old days" were only a figment of imagination after all, a nostalgia of never-was, an emotion of discovery only to individuals then new to radio. "Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder", is going to be the title of a book I am working on! grin There ARE those of that disorder. They exist. They have transported themselves to their own imaginary fairyland, a lifestyle of imagining they are "masters of radio"...but "masters" only of an imaginary world of the 30s and 40s long gone...when Kode was King and all was simple and orderly, fixed in place. I look forward to a FUTURE, not a past. I was in the past and all wasn't as good as it is now. The future looks like a better place, something to enjoy, to have fun in, free of the ties to old standards and practices that are out of place now. out old |
Len:
Your text was interesting... I kind feel guilty though, that book I am working on, ""Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder"--I stole the idea from Michael Savage, a radio talk show host, and his book "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." Please don't tell anyone, I am counting on only you and I knowing... John On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:00:12 -0700, LenAnderson wrote: From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Kind of a low-grade "one-world, one-government" kind of thing, all molded around THEIR concept of how the hobby "is." Dannie can't accept anything else but HIS beliefs. For other, different ideas he gets hostile, volatile, tries to batter the different to the floor tile. Disgusting really... and yes, I remember a time when it was NOT this way, you had a few anti-social weirdos who were loners and thought themselves special because of a hobby license, but that seems to have become catching and has almost infected the whole lot, the sane ones are rather few and far between these days... We differ, John. I can easily remember a mere two decades ago on visiting the Lockheed ARC...when Lockheed was having a lot of difficulties with the state and the city of Burbank. In general a bunch of disheartening, don't-tell-me-nothing-because-we-rule group of "extras" whose major dissatisfaction was really that they were in imminent danger of being on LAY OFF. Lockheed California eventually moved out entire from the Burbank area (a division is still at AF Plant 42 in Palmdale) and ALL the old Lockheed buildings have been razed, hardly any rubble is left. The fabled Skunk Works in Building 82 was one of the first to be torn down. The Lockheed ARC is but a shell of its former self and the laid-off Lockheed workers (who didn't want to go to Georgia) are off muttering in their isolated little corners. The huge Lockheed production complex along Empire Avenue just disappeared and, like a Phoenix from the ashes, the fabulous new Empire Center of many, many stores and services, two office buildings and two hotels grew on the place where all the famous Lockheed aircraft were built. All that remains of Lockheed is the silhouettes of the Vega, the Constellation, the P-38, and the SR-71 on the parking lot section signs. Rebirth. I was reminded of this from yesterday when my wife and I were at a store in the Empire Center. At the large entrance we saw an old geezer regaling a couple of younger women about his work at Lockheed ("over there where building 15 was" "we built airplanes!"). The young women were polite, smiled, but clearly didn't find any interest or amusement at this. Eventually the old geezer wound down and all left. In one way that's the way it will be with U.S. amateur radio. Rebirth. The new replacing the old. The old will become a memory, one not treasured so emotionally as by the old-timers. The future will be different, brighter, full of new things. New leaders will form and lead. New-timers will enjoy the new environment. Oldsters will grouse and bitch, complaining mightily about it not being as good as "the old days." Of course not. "The old days" were only a figment of imagination after all, a nostalgia of never-was, an emotion of discovery only to individuals then new to radio. "Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder", is going to be the title of a book I am working on! grin There ARE those of that disorder. They exist. They have transported themselves to their own imaginary fairyland, a lifestyle of imagining they are "masters of radio"...but "masters" only of an imaginary world of the 30s and 40s long gone...when Kode was King and all was simple and orderly, fixed in place. I look forward to a FUTURE, not a past. I was in the past and all wasn't as good as it is now. The future looks like a better place, something to enjoy, to have fun in, free of the ties to old standards and practices that are out of place now. out old |
wrote:
From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." You have a point, Len. There is an amateur radio clique. Those who are radio amateurs are a part of it. You aren't. Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Is there proof of your statement? Kind of a low-grade "one-world, one-government" kind of thing, all molded around THEIR concept of how the hobby "is." Dannie can't accept anything else but HIS beliefs. For other, different ideas he gets hostile, volatile, tries to batter the different to the floor tile. That description would certainly apply to you, Leonard. There are plenty of others here who have a view of amateur radio which is entirely at odds with yours. The big difference is that they *are* radio amateurs. Your view is that of a total outsider. For years you have attempted battering the different to the floor tile. Go figure. Disgusting really... and yes, I remember a time when it was NOT this way, you had a few anti-social weirdos who were loners and thought themselves special because of a hobby license, but that seems to have become catching and has almost infected the whole lot, the sane ones are rather few and far between these days... We differ, John. I can easily remember a mere two decades ago on visiting the Lockheed ARC...when Lockheed was having a lot of difficulties with the state and the city of Burbank. In general a bunch of disheartening, don't-tell-me-nothing-because-we-rule group of "extras" whose major dissatisfaction was really that they were in imminent danger of being on LAY OFF. snip of a dreadfully lengthy treatise on the Extra Class hams at Lockheed being responsible for the demise of the company All that remains of Lockheed is the silhouettes of the Vega, the Constellation, the P-38, and the SR-71 on the parking lot section signs. Rebirth. I was reminded of this from yesterday when my wife and I were at a store in the Empire Center. At the large entrance we saw an old geezer regaling a couple of younger women about his work at Lockheed ("over there where building 15 was" "we built airplanes!"). A fellow about your age, Len? In another place, the tale could have been something about your having worked 24/7 at ADA in Japan a half-century ago. The young women were polite, smiled, but clearly didn't find any interest or amusement at this. Perhaps now you understand the reaction to the continual retelling of your ADA tale. Eventually the old geezer wound down and all left. In one way that's the way it will be with U.S. amateur radio. Rebirth. The new replacing the old. Amateur radio? It sounds like you're working on a story about life itself. The old will become a memory, one not treasured so emotionally as by the old-timers. The future will be different, brighter, full of new things. New leaders will form and lead. New-timers will enjoy the new environment. Oldsters will grouse and bitch, complaining mightily about it not being as good as "the old days." Of course not. "The old days" were only a figment of imagination after all, a nostalgia of never-was, an emotion of discovery only to individuals then new to radio. "Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder", is going to be the title of a book I am working on! grin There ARE those of that disorder. They exist. They have transported themselves to their own imaginary fairyland, a lifestyle of imagining they are "masters of radio"...but "masters" only of an imaginary world of the 30s and 40s long gone...when Kode was King and all was simple and orderly, fixed in place. Some live in a very different fairyland, one where the unlicensed in amateur radio can make believe that they are a part of the game. They could, for example, haunt an amateur radio newsgroup for nearly a decade and attempt impressing *mere radio amateurs* with tales of their exploits in commercial radio or in the military of decades and decades back. I look forward to a FUTURE, not a past. Well, OT, the odds are that it will be a fairly short one. Best hustle or be forever something less than a footnote in amateur radio. I was in the past and all wasn't as good as it is now. Some things were better then. Some things are better now. The future looks like a better place, something to enjoy, to have fun in, free of the ties to old standards and practices that are out of place now. I beat you to it. I thought of that forty years back. It was sometimes a better place. I enjoyed some things but there were problems and there were things which I didn't enjoy. Some new standards and practices were introduced. Some of them worked out well. Others were scrapped and we saw people doing the things the old way, because those ways are better. It doesn't really matter now. It is all in the past. out old I love the words over your sig. You're out and you're old. By the way, didn't "John" say that you're dead but animated? Dave K8MN |
Len:
You might have said, I missed it if that is the case, when/if CW is dead, are you going to grab your extra ticket? If so, ya wanna meet down on 3.840 and give art a run for his money--in a gentlemanly way of course. Don't go with disruptive actions myself... debate and argument yes, trouble no... suspect you might be the same... could be fun, ya never know... grin John On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:00:12 -0700, LenAnderson wrote: From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Kind of a low-grade "one-world, one-government" kind of thing, all molded around THEIR concept of how the hobby "is." Dannie can't accept anything else but HIS beliefs. For other, different ideas he gets hostile, volatile, tries to batter the different to the floor tile. Disgusting really... and yes, I remember a time when it was NOT this way, you had a few anti-social weirdos who were loners and thought themselves special because of a hobby license, but that seems to have become catching and has almost infected the whole lot, the sane ones are rather few and far between these days... We differ, John. I can easily remember a mere two decades ago on visiting the Lockheed ARC...when Lockheed was having a lot of difficulties with the state and the city of Burbank. In general a bunch of disheartening, don't-tell-me-nothing-because-we-rule group of "extras" whose major dissatisfaction was really that they were in imminent danger of being on LAY OFF. Lockheed California eventually moved out entire from the Burbank area (a division is still at AF Plant 42 in Palmdale) and ALL the old Lockheed buildings have been razed, hardly any rubble is left. The fabled Skunk Works in Building 82 was one of the first to be torn down. The Lockheed ARC is but a shell of its former self and the laid-off Lockheed workers (who didn't want to go to Georgia) are off muttering in their isolated little corners. The huge Lockheed production complex along Empire Avenue just disappeared and, like a Phoenix from the ashes, the fabulous new Empire Center of many, many stores and services, two office buildings and two hotels grew on the place where all the famous Lockheed aircraft were built. All that remains of Lockheed is the silhouettes of the Vega, the Constellation, the P-38, and the SR-71 on the parking lot section signs. Rebirth. I was reminded of this from yesterday when my wife and I were at a store in the Empire Center. At the large entrance we saw an old geezer regaling a couple of younger women about his work at Lockheed ("over there where building 15 was" "we built airplanes!"). The young women were polite, smiled, but clearly didn't find any interest or amusement at this. Eventually the old geezer wound down and all left. In one way that's the way it will be with U.S. amateur radio. Rebirth. The new replacing the old. The old will become a memory, one not treasured so emotionally as by the old-timers. The future will be different, brighter, full of new things. New leaders will form and lead. New-timers will enjoy the new environment. Oldsters will grouse and bitch, complaining mightily about it not being as good as "the old days." Of course not. "The old days" were only a figment of imagination after all, a nostalgia of never-was, an emotion of discovery only to individuals then new to radio. "Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder", is going to be the title of a book I am working on! grin There ARE those of that disorder. They exist. They have transported themselves to their own imaginary fairyland, a lifestyle of imagining they are "masters of radio"...but "masters" only of an imaginary world of the 30s and 40s long gone...when Kode was King and all was simple and orderly, fixed in place. I look forward to a FUTURE, not a past. I was in the past and all wasn't as good as it is now. The future looks like a better place, something to enjoy, to have fun in, free of the ties to old standards and practices that are out of place now. out old |
Dave Heil wrote: wrote: From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." You have a point, Len. There is an amateur radio clique. Those who are radio amateurs are a part of it. You aren't. More lies on your part You and I are not part of the same clique Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Is there proof of your statement? yes your support of morse code welfare cut |
AOF:
"Morse Code Welfare", I think you hit upon it man, they consider the bands a "RF Social Entitlement!" We are making progress in their psychiatric diagnosis! John On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:04:02 -0700, an_old_friend wrote: Dave Heil wrote: wrote: From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." You have a point, Len. There is an amateur radio clique. Those who are radio amateurs are a part of it. You aren't. More lies on your part You and I are not part of the same clique Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Is there proof of your statement? yes your support of morse code welfare cut |
John Smith wrote: AOF: "Morse Code Welfare", I think you hit upon it man, they consider the bands a "RF Social Entitlement!" We are making progress in their psychiatric diagnosis! John not really that was rendered at 7 years ago On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:04:02 -0700, an_old_friend wrote: |
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: All of 80 meters is open to digital modes. You know, the modes all those new, young, modern hams are going to use when Element 1 goes away. If there's so much room, then what's the problem making 3500 to 3575 Morse Code only? Because we don't use it now. 25 on the bottom of all bands is plenty IF it is CW exclusive to ALL classes. Is 80 meters full of digital signals? Or is it equally underused by those modes as well? 80/75 is a seasonal band, as is 160. Summertime activity of any kind is quite low. With the exception of SSB. It is always full up. At least in 4 land anyway. Here in 3 land the activity is both diurnal and seasonal. During the day 80/75 is very quiet - in part because of propagation, in part because of people not being near a rig, and in part because other bands are "more open". Winter is more active than summer, sunspot minimum more active than sunspot maximum. Digital is indeed increasing, but so far are staying above 3575. On occassion I am QRMed from them on the Alabama net, 3575. But they move when they hear activity...to their credit. But in general there isn't much digital going on either. Some years back, a small PSK31 rig called the "Warbler" made the 3579.545 colorburst frequency popular among PSK31 folks. Although the Warbler only covered about 2 kHz of the band there, folks with other rigs flocked around. Is 3575 to 3675 full of digital signals? I don't think so! There's another effect going on, too: Good 80 meter antennas are pretty big to folks used to VHF and 10 meter type stuff. The popular G5RV is a compromise antenna on 80, at best. The band doesn't really come into its own until after dark. Etc. How many folks on rrap have an 80 meter setup? As in "at least a G5RV that works on 80, 35 feet up at least") There's W4NTI, N2EY, K8MN, K0HB, and probably W3RV. Out of how many? 40 is another case and it is gonna be real tough to put that mess straight.. hi. Not really. The mess is due to the rest of the world wanting 7100-7300 for SWBC. That's going away, even as we speak, and more and more of the rest of the world is letting their hams have 7100-7200. Eventually 7000-7300 will be worldwide exclusive amateur. So what's the problem with 7000-7050 being Morse Code only? See above The band is 300 kHz wide. 50 kHz is 16%. There are plenty of times - noncontest times - when 40 is one Morse Code signal after another from 7000 to 7050. And that's with cascaded 8 pole 500 Hz filters in the rx. 40 meters is a butchered band. And yes I know that changes are FINALLY on the way. Not just on the way - they're here, and growing every day as SWBC folks move out and more countries allow their hams to use 7100-7200. Soon there will be no good reason for SSB below 7100 at all. Perhaps when it is a exclusive Amateur allocation (at least for Region 1 and 2) things will improve. But for now it is a complete mess. The rules take so long to change that the time to ask is now. Look to the future, when 7000-7200 or even 7000-7300 will be worldwide exclusive amateur. It is indeed a active band, for all modes. In reality it needs expanded to 7.5 or so. But that will never happen. It won't happen if we say "never". Look how long the band stopped at 7100 outside Region 2. But the rules *did* change. 20/15/10 could all use some "CW Trimming" today. Let's cut to the chase. It's about more room for 'phone and less for Morse Code and digital modes. Some folks talk big about "new directions" and "modernization" and "fresh ideas", but what they really mean is more bandspace for SSB. Is that what is best? More room for SSB and AM, less for CW and digital modes? I don't know what is "best". I would just like to see a clean spot for CW only. That is a personal choice, nothing more. Whether I get it is another story. I think what is best for amateur radio is for the bottom 15% or so of each HF/MF ham band to be Morse Code only. If that is done, and at least some of it is open to all license classes, hams who are interested in Morse Code can and will flock there. The problems of incompatible modes will be greatly reduced. I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No digital, etc. That way those that want can. Those that don't.....won't. The trouble is that it will take an Extra to get down there. No it won't. Drop the Extra only and be done with that Dinosaur. FCC won't go for that. Read the NPRM - they specifically state that they think 3 license classes is the right number, and that we'll get to three classes by attrition. They specifically denied auto-upgrades, new entry level licenses, etc. Then only extra's do CW. I have no solution for that. If the FCC don't want it, it won't happen. The trick is to offer the FCC something that doesn't contradict the way they think. Telling them to dump the Extra is a nonstarter because they're convinced it's a good thing. The idea of devoting 15% of each band to be Morse Code only hasn't been presented to them. They might go for it as a way to eliminate QRM complaints. "Here's a Morse-Code-only preserve, folks the only QRM you'll have is from each other!". Other modes have similar protection. Look at the 'phone subbands - data modes are not allowed there! Morse Code ops avoid the 'phone subbands - when't the last time you heard real Morse Code operation in a 'phone subband? All you hear in the 'phone subbands are SSB, a bit of AM, some SSTV, and maybe some digital voice and narrow FM. Some might even say those rules are 'welfare' for analog voice modes. If those modes can be protected from digital/data QRM, why can't a much smaller part of each band be set up as a Morse Code preserve? They also said that more frequencies was the best incentive. The FCC has NO IDEA what is good for Ham radio. Nor do they give a RIP. Doesn't matter - they make the rules. If we ask for something that goes along with their mindset we just might get it. Asking for something they have already said is not on their agenda has little or no chance or success. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Carl R. Stevenson wrote: As far as "dumbing down" goes - I don't buy it - as Ed Hare, W1RFI (someone who I think most here respect), has recounted ... the "beginner's test (novice)" in his day had a 3-1/2 page study guide, the general study guide was 16 pages (I had mis-remembered and stated 12-14 pages in a couple of presentations, but that was an honest mistake and doesn't really alter the point). Today, the "Now You're Talking" - the study guide for the "beginner's test (tech)" is on the order of 200 pages or slightly more and covers MANY more topics than the study guides of Ed's test-taking days ever covered. Except that's not the whole story. I've had this discussion with W1RFI both online and in person. There's a lot more to the old vs. new exams. First off, the "3-1/2 page study guide" refers to the part of the old ARRL License Manual that had the sample questions. These were essay-type questions meant to indicate subject areas that would be on the test. The old LM was *not* meant to be a stand-alone study guide, nor did it contain the exact Q&A. One or two essay questions could cover an enormous amount of ground, yet take up a small part of one page. In addition, the prospective ham had to know the rules and regulations (not part of those 3-1/2 pages) plus Morse Code sending and receiving. Most of all, the old 1963 Novice was an extremely limited license. Good for one year, small parts of 4 bands bands, two modes and low power with crystal control. Every US ham had a year to pass at least the General written (same exam was used for Technician, General and Conditional) or leave the ham bands. The point is that things have NOT been "dumbed down" ... there is more to study and learn than ever before - just to become a "beginner." Yes and no. If someone wants to really *understand* the material, there's lots to learn. If they want to be able to practically apply it, there's even more. But if all they want to do is pass the test, all they need is to get enough multiple choices right and the license is theirs. FCC doesn't care if someone understands the material or not, or if they got a perfect score or just enough for a passing mark. Same license is issued either way. This isn't meant as a put-down of newer hams - they don't control the testing process or requirements! I was licensed long enough ago to have been a member of QCWA for some time, and I am FIRMLY convinced that those who complain about "dumbing down" of the testing are either being disingenuous, or more likely simply remember the tests that they took many years ago as being MUCH harder than they actually were. Or maybe they're using a poor choice of words. The old tests required some understanding and detailed knowledge in a few well-defined areas. The new tests are more amenable to memorization without much understanding, and treat a wide variety of subjects in a very basic manner. On top of all this is the fact that in the bad old days just getting to an exam was a major effort for a lot of prospective hams. So we tended to overprepare just to be sure. Besides, the test isn't a proof that you "know all there is to know," nor SHOULD it be. Of course not! At the same time, if the test is "too easy", the newcomer has so much to learn that they can be frustrated to the point of giving up. I'd ask older hams with higher class licenses to think back to the mistakes that they made when they first went on the air many years ago - and how the more experienced hams of the time (generally) were patient, tolerant, and helpful. Show the newcomers the way in polite, respectful, and constructive ways, rather than slamming them and telling them they're no good! Of course - but that's a two-way street! Being called "olde fartz", "obsolete", "dinosaurs", "beepers", "key tappers", "elitists", "one-by-twos who need a whack from a two-by-four" and such doesn't make an experienced ham - *any* experienced ham - want to Elmer the name caller. Look at KB3EIA's experiences - see the problem? I had a similar one here on rrap when I tried to help someone with an HF antenna problem, then realized the person expected me to completely solve his problem with incomplete information and a barrage of put-downs. Eventually I realized it was a waste of my time - the person involved would not accept any solution provided. Of course a lot of Elmering *does* go on - via reflectors, in person, on the air, with books, websites, etc. I've done a bit of that myself.... 73 de Jim, N2EY |
wrote in message
oups.com... [snip] How many folks on rrap have an 80 meter setup? As in "at least a G5RV that works on 80, 35 feet up at least") There's W4NTI, N2EY, K8MN, K0HB, and probably W3RV. I do ... 160m-70cm here ... with digital modes as well as voice. [snip] Let's cut to the chase. It's about more room for 'phone and less for Morse Code and digital modes. Some folks talk big about "new directions" and "modernization" and "fresh ideas", but what they really mean is more bandspace for SSB. I, for one, do NOT support more bandspace for SSB ... I think it's unnecessary. The main problems are on contest weekends and a lot of those problems are caused by too much testosterone and not enough operating courtesy from *some( but not all) contesters and the "retaliations" from some equally discourteous non-contesters. Is that what is best? More room for SSB and AM, less for CW and digital modes? No ... see above. -- 73, Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c Grid Square FN20fm http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c ------------------------------------------------------ Life Member, ARRL Life Member, QCWA (31424) Member, TAPR Member, AMSAT-NA Member, LVARC (Lehigh Valley ARC) Member, Lehigh County ARES/RACES Fellow, The Radio Club of America Senior Member, IEEE Member, IEEE Standards Association Chair, IEEE 802.22 WG on Wireless Regional Area Networks ------------------------------------------------------ |
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Carl R. Stevenson wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... robert casey wrote: I still like my suggestion......bottom 25 of ALL HF bands....CW ONLY. No digital, etc. That way those that want can. We could and should do this as a gentlemen's' agreement. No need for FCC micromanagement here. well in the eyes of those that see CW under attack they do see still see a need for a coded reservation, and they fear that they will lose everything out side of it It seems true that many, if not most, CW fans fear that other modes will "over-run" them if the ARRL's "plan" for regulation by bandwidth goes forward in its present form. I have always stated truthfully here that I would never support any proposal to ban or restrict the use of CW in any way, shape, or form and that position still stands. I *also* firmly believe that CW and other modes should NOT be "squeezed out of existence" or "over-run by Winlink/PactorIII robots" as many fear will happen if the "plan" adopted by the ARRL BoD in July were to become FCC regulation. Works for me! As a candidate for the ARRL Atlantic Division director's position, I have gone on record publicly (on the QRP-L reflector and on qrz.com and now here on r.r.a.p) that, had I been on the ARRL BoD in July, I would NOT have voted for "the plan" because I believe that the fact that virtually NOBODY seems to like it indicates to me that it's broken and needs to be fixed if it's to go forward at all. Or at least rewritten so that it's clear what is being proposed in the first place. Bandplans and band usage are complicated issues where the ARRL or anyone else is highly unlikely to be able to please everyone - the objective needs to be to work with the different interest groups towards compromises that allow us to get to something that at least a significant majority can accept and say "I can live with that." If I become a member of the ARRL BoD I would work with all of the interested parties in an effort to forge that sort of result. With all due respect, that's what everybody says. The trouble is with the specifics. You've given us some good specifics, like support of a 'reasonable' subband for Morse Code only, and a similar 'reasonable' subband for 'robots'. The devil is in "what's reasonable"? In addition to significantly improving the general level of technical knowledge and skill of hams, That was a prime reason for "incentive licensing" 40 years ago! growing our numbers (both licensees and ARRL members), protecting our spectrum, and getting more people trained for and involved in emergency communications, one of the MOST pressing problems we face is to reverse the trend of "compartmentalizing" ourselves into "factions" whose whole world revolves around one mode or one activity, because the resulting "turf wars," suspicion/mistrust/paranoia, in-fighting, and attacks on each other divide us in ways that both are bad for the ARS as it's seen externally and bad for the ARS internally as we get along with (or don't) each other. We should ALL be "hams" (period) and work together cooperatively and constructively going forward into the future on the truly important issues facing ham radio and the ARRL. The trouble is that ham radio covers such a wide range of activities that there's trouble finding common ground in some cases. For example, you have folks who want to use equipment and modes that are decades old, and folks who think anything less than their concept of SOTA is "obsolete". Folks who want more room for SSB (and even "hi-fi SSB") and folks who want more room for digital. Folks who don't even have a computer in the shack and folks who never actually listen to a signal (they watch it on the waterfall display). Appliance ops and homebrew-from-scratch folks. DXers, contesters, ragchewers, emcomm folks. Those who are stuck with compromise and stealth antennas and those with tons of aluminum aloft. How do you get all those folks to see that there is value in what each of them brings to the table? ALL hams should treat each other with respect and courtesy, regardless of license class or operating preferences. Experienced hams need to welcome new hams with the spirit of patience and helpfulness that "Elmering" embodies, rather than treating them as some inferior form of life. As mentioned before - that goes both ways. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: [snip] How many folks on rrap have an 80 meter setup? As in "at least a G5RV that works on 80, 35 feet up at least") There's W4NTI, N2EY, K8MN, K0HB, and probably W3RV. Out of how many? For 80m, I'm set up so I can choose between a G5RV, 80m skyloop, ground mounted vertical, or random wire. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Len: You might have said, I missed it if that is the case, when/if CW is dead, are you going to grab your extra ticket? Maybe, maybe not. That's MY option, not based on the puerile taunts of middle-schoolers who are of middle age going "nyah, nyah, can't get a ticket, can't get a ticket!!!" :-) Hmmm...I started out in HF communications with much more "action" than the average, doing 24/7 comms with high-power (up to 40 KW) transmitters shooting across the Pacific, plus doing VHF, UHF, and - finally - multi-channel microwave radio relay over a half century ago...winding up as an operations and maintenance supervisor NCO. Then, on release from active duty, getting a First 'Phone at an FCC field office (no COLEMs then) and working four broadcast stations as vacation relief or on weekends or full time for WREX-TV to gain enough money to come out west...having already interviewed for and secured a job at Hughes Aircraft. That led to a whole career, major major change to electronics engineering winding up as senior staff in design. I'm supposed to get a ham license to "prove I know something about radio?!?!?" I don't have anything to "prove" to a bunch of yokels who want to recreate the 1930s and 1940s in radiotelegraphy! Geezus, gimme a break from those neanderthallers! What the fork do think a ham license IS...some kind of Nobel Award for Science?!? :-) Amateur radio is fun, a recreational avocation done not for money but for personal pleasure. It involves NO different radio physics than any other radio service but it allows all the choice of buying state-of-the-art radios to use or in building them from their own designs. It requires a license to transmit RF due to a federal law (an act of Congress) that created a federal regulatory agency for ALL civil radio. The mindset of many hase been "conditioned" by a certain membership organization to be much, much more, a virtual lifestyle that has gotten too deep into the myth and fantasy of long-ago times and dreams of glory and heroism that never happened. One argument is that "a ham can have their OWN station." Yes, I've had "my own station" or properly, one-third of it in a business partnership with two others. I've built/converted three "stations" and checked them thoroughly befoe selling them, never once "using" them or caring to use them. I've designed and built two other transceivers for CB, one a prototype for a CB company in Burbank that went bankrupt when faced with off-shore CB products cut them out of profit action. "I can work the world on radio with an amateur license!!!" Yes, and I could pick up a handset in Tokyo, at ADA Control, and talk to Seattle, Anchorage, San Francisco, Hawaii, or Okinawa any time of the day or night, as I did for a while in 1955...without any "license" or even any specific HF with/without SSB schooling of any kind. I can "talk" to the rest of the world any time I want to on the Internet, and have, plus being able to share images with dozens of long-time friends (from pre-Internet days) faster than by surface mail, uninterrupted by vagaries of the ionosphere. "I can explore new radio territory and advance the state of the radio art" with a ham license. What the fork do some of these cretins think I was DOING FOR A LIVING since 1956? Without a ham license I've legally transmitted RF on frequencies ranging through EM bands from LF into EHF, on up to 4mm wavelengths. Gotten one patent as sole inventor, had a terrific time in the labs and in the field, still do it once in a while. I once "worked a station" ON the moon. No moonbounce stuff. I have to learn morse code in order to do THAT as an amateur?!? (I don't have to test for morse code at VHF and up, just for frequencies below 30 MHz...where I began doing HF communications a half century before...without having to know or use morse code then or any time afterwards) If so, ya wanna meet down on 3.840 and give art a run for his money--in a gentlemanly way of course. Don't go with disruptive actions myself... debate and argument yes, trouble no... suspect you might be the same... could be fun, ya never know... grin No. If anyplace on ham bands, it would be on 20m where a bunch of ex-RCA Corporation folks hang out on Saturday mornings. Talk there is shared-interest stuff, not the personal polemics of self-propelled radio potentates. Listen for KD6JG and W6MJN, among others. I know them by their real names, not callsigns. "I can be FEDERALLY-AUTHORIZED with MY OWN CALLSIGN if I get a ham license!!!" Wow, ain't that something (like I've already done that, but not with a ham license). I know where to get a good ham sandwich nearby, the vendors needing only a Health Department license to operate. [great pastrami at one place] I DO need to renew my Poetic License. Time to study for Mores Goad. :-) buy buy |
wrote in message oups.com... Carl R. Stevenson wrote: [snip] Bandplans and band usage are complicated issues where the ARRL or anyone else is highly unlikely to be able to please everyone - the objective needs to be to work with the different interest groups towards compromises that allow us to get to something that at least a significant majority can accept and say "I can live with that." If I become a member of the ARRL BoD I would work with all of the interested parties in an effort to forge that sort of result. With all due respect, that's what everybody says. The trouble is with the specifics. You've given us some good specifics, like support of a 'reasonable' subband for Morse Code only, and a similar 'reasonable' subband for 'robots'. The devil is in "what's reasonable"? The way I see it there's probably no way to please everyone 100%. Therefore, I think the solution is to work with all of the interested "camps" to forge a compromise that at least a significant majority can accept. The optimum balance is probably something that will result in all of the "camps" being able to say "It's not perfect in my ideal world, but I can accept it and 'sign up' to support it." I think the suggestion from the CW folks for a modest "CW only" segement at the bottom of the band is reasonable and would ease a lot of concerns about getting "squeezed out of existence." I think that the proposal that some have made to "repurpose" the "refarming" of the novice bands to provide a "digital playground" for the experimenters who want to develop, test, and operate the higher speed, more robust digital modes that the emergency management agencies want is also something that merits consideration. I agree that "robots" should not be allowed to take over the bands at the expense of all of the other modes. All of this would require some degree of compromise, but I think that's what will be required to formulate something that gains widespread acceptance instead of massive resistance. In addition to significantly improving the general level of technical knowledge and skill of hams, That was a prime reason for "incentive licensing" 40 years ago! I'm talking about improved educational programs ... it's clear that "incentive licensing" created a huge schysm in the amateur community and hasn't really worked. (I think part of the problem was linking increased voice frequency privileges to the totally unrelated Morse test and the other part was that it created in too many people's minds the idea that the license meant you "knew all there was to know" - thereby removing the motivation to progress even further.) growing our numbers (both licensees and ARRL members), protecting our spectrum, and getting more people trained for and involved in emergency communications, one of the MOST pressing problems we face is to reverse the trend of "compartmentalizing" ourselves into "factions" whose whole world revolves around one mode or one activity, because the resulting "turf wars," suspicion/mistrust/paranoia, in-fighting, and attacks on each other divide us in ways that both are bad for the ARS as it's seen externally and bad for the ARS internally as we get along with (or don't) each other. We should ALL be "hams" (period) and work together cooperatively and constructively going forward into the future on the truly important issues facing ham radio and the ARRL. The trouble is that ham radio covers such a wide range of activities that there's trouble finding common ground in some cases. The common ground should be that we're all hams - with recognition that different people have different operating interests and cooperating instead of always being so defensive and turf-war oriented. For example, you have folks who want to use equipment and modes that are decades old, and folks who think anything less than their concept of SOTA is "obsolete". Folks who want more room for SSB (and even "hi-fi SSB") and folks who want more room for digital. Folks who don't even have a computer in the shack and folks who never actually listen to a signal (they watch it on the waterfall display). Appliance ops and homebrew-from-scratch folks. DXers, contesters, ragchewers, emcomm folks. Those who are stuck with compromise and stealth antennas and those with tons of aluminum aloft. How do you get all those folks to see that there is value in what each of them brings to the table? Education, encouragement, and, in severe cases, peer pressure (through the clubs is one way) to "play nicer together." ALL hams should treat each other with respect and courtesy, regardless of license class or operating preferences. Experienced hams need to welcome new hams with the spirit of patience and helpfulness that "Elmering" embodies, rather than treating them as some inferior form of life. As mentioned before - that goes both ways. That's true ... newbies shouldn't "cop an attitude" and neither should OTs. -- 73, Carl R. Stevenson - wk3c Grid Square FN20fm http://home.ptd.net/~wk3c ------------------------------------------------------ Life Member, ARRL Life Member, QCWA (31424) Member, TAPR Member, AMSAT-NA Member, LVARC (Lehigh Valley ARC) Member, Lehigh County ARES/RACES Fellow, The Radio Club of America Senior Member, IEEE Member, IEEE Standards Association Chair, IEEE 802.22 WG on Wireless Regional Area Networks ------------------------------------------------------ |
"an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... Dan/W4NTI wrote: "an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Dan/W4NTI wrote: cut There should be, though. 15% or so of each band. I'm yet to see one good reason not to do that. I have yet to see a reason good or otherwise to do so All I see is bunch of folks still promoting th idea that they and thier specail mode deserve protections and prevledges deined the rest of us So what is wrong with that? Everyone promotes their own thing Then you are sick Not everyone promotes thier own thing over the interest of the public Say WHAT ??????? What school system did you attend? The KGB school of anti Western teachings? You call me sick? Your a flippin SOCIALIST, or worse. In this me generation world, all that seems to go on is self promotion. Dan/W4NTI |
I get a real "kick" out of Lennie calling me those things. When all one has
to do is put his name in place and you have a perfect picture of Len Anderson. Amazing. Dan/W4NTI "John Smith" wrote in message ... Len: Your text was interesting... I kind feel guilty though, that book I am working on, ""Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder"--I stole the idea from Michael Savage, a radio talk show host, and his book "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." Please don't tell anyone, I am counting on only you and I knowing... John On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:00:12 -0700, LenAnderson wrote: From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Kind of a low-grade "one-world, one-government" kind of thing, all molded around THEIR concept of how the hobby "is." Dannie can't accept anything else but HIS beliefs. For other, different ideas he gets hostile, volatile, tries to batter the different to the floor tile. Disgusting really... and yes, I remember a time when it was NOT this way, you had a few anti-social weirdos who were loners and thought themselves special because of a hobby license, but that seems to have become catching and has almost infected the whole lot, the sane ones are rather few and far between these days... We differ, John. I can easily remember a mere two decades ago on visiting the Lockheed ARC...when Lockheed was having a lot of difficulties with the state and the city of Burbank. In general a bunch of disheartening, don't-tell-me-nothing-because-we-rule group of "extras" whose major dissatisfaction was really that they were in imminent danger of being on LAY OFF. Lockheed California eventually moved out entire from the Burbank area (a division is still at AF Plant 42 in Palmdale) and ALL the old Lockheed buildings have been razed, hardly any rubble is left. The fabled Skunk Works in Building 82 was one of the first to be torn down. The Lockheed ARC is but a shell of its former self and the laid-off Lockheed workers (who didn't want to go to Georgia) are off muttering in their isolated little corners. The huge Lockheed production complex along Empire Avenue just disappeared and, like a Phoenix from the ashes, the fabulous new Empire Center of many, many stores and services, two office buildings and two hotels grew on the place where all the famous Lockheed aircraft were built. All that remains of Lockheed is the silhouettes of the Vega, the Constellation, the P-38, and the SR-71 on the parking lot section signs. Rebirth. I was reminded of this from yesterday when my wife and I were at a store in the Empire Center. At the large entrance we saw an old geezer regaling a couple of younger women about his work at Lockheed ("over there where building 15 was" "we built airplanes!"). The young women were polite, smiled, but clearly didn't find any interest or amusement at this. Eventually the old geezer wound down and all left. In one way that's the way it will be with U.S. amateur radio. Rebirth. The new replacing the old. The old will become a memory, one not treasured so emotionally as by the old-timers. The future will be different, brighter, full of new things. New leaders will form and lead. New-timers will enjoy the new environment. Oldsters will grouse and bitch, complaining mightily about it not being as good as "the old days." Of course not. "The old days" were only a figment of imagination after all, a nostalgia of never-was, an emotion of discovery only to individuals then new to radio. "Amateur Worship is a Mental Disorder", is going to be the title of a book I am working on! grin There ARE those of that disorder. They exist. They have transported themselves to their own imaginary fairyland, a lifestyle of imagining they are "masters of radio"...but "masters" only of an imaginary world of the 30s and 40s long gone...when Kode was King and all was simple and orderly, fixed in place. I look forward to a FUTURE, not a past. I was in the past and all wasn't as good as it is now. The future looks like a better place, something to enjoy, to have fun in, free of the ties to old standards and practices that are out of place now. out old |
"an_old_friend" wrote in message oups.com... Dave Heil wrote: wrote: From: John Smith on Aug 22, 3:22 pm Dan: What is "good for amateur radio" has to be "what is good for the people", and NOT "what is good for my klick." No, John, it IS for their clique...except they can't see anything but their clique as being "amateur radio." You have a point, Len. There is an amateur radio clique. Those who are radio amateurs are a part of it. You aren't. More lies on your part You and I are not part of the same clique Which is what you are really stating, it is just a bunch of "good ole cb buddies", but thinking of themselves in some glorified manner! To Dan the ARS stands for Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society. Is there proof of your statement? yes your support of morse code welfare cut Thank goodness. Well at least "old friend" knows he is not in the group. I for one am proud to hold a Amateur Radio License. I have NO REASON at all to not be. On the other hand we have.......well you know who you are. Dan/W4NTI |
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