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It would be funny, if it was not so sad...
Here you have a true picture of the sorry state of amateur radio. A bunch of ancient, silly old men lying about military service, and arguing about such... all which has nothing to do with the amateur hobby in this century, in this millennium... These subjects, which the vast majority of amateurs have no interest in, do nothing to assist amateur radio, indeed, they only further aids its' decay. CW is as important to the future as the model A, the steam engine, the the horse and buggy, etc... and yet you have the greatest expenditure of energy revolving around it. There are no men with the vision, courage and skills to be able to step in and move focus on points which would move amateur radio ahead... Only old gossipers using ancient technology to further their own self-serving interests are the problem, sane men have fled for other frontiers... It is ridiculous to watch... John |
From: John Smith on Aug 29, 8:08 am
Here you have a true picture of the sorry state of amateur radio. A bunch of ancient, silly old men lying about military service, and arguing about such... all which has nothing to do with the amateur hobby in this century, in this millennium... These subjects, which the vast majority of amateurs have no interest in, do nothing to assist amateur radio, indeed, they only further aids its' decay. CW is as important to the future as the model A, the steam engine, the the horse and buggy, etc... and yet you have the greatest expenditure of energy revolving around it. There are no men with the vision, courage and skills to be able to step in and move focus on points which would move amateur radio ahead... Actually, there ARE those. Only one of them has been in this newsgroup (Carl Stevenson)...and has been roundly booed or snubbed by those "ancient, silly old men" you mentioned. Only old gossipers using ancient technology to further their own self-serving interests are the problem, sane men have fled for other frontiers... It is ridiculous to watch... I find it morbidly fascinating! :-) |
wrote Actually, there ARE those. Only one of them has been in this newsgroup (Carl Stevenson)...and has been roundly booed or snubbed by those "ancient, silly old men" you mentioned. "Only one"? Present company excepted, how about these representative examples just for starters.... ....W1RFI ....KE4ZV ....KA9Q ....WB9IVR(SK) ....KE3Z |
From: K0HB on Aug 29, 12:20 pm
wrote Actually, there ARE those. Only one of them has been in this newsgroup (Carl Stevenson)...and has been roundly booed or snubbed by those "ancient, silly old men" you mentioned. "Only one"? YES. Are you running for anything now, Hans? :-) Present company excepted, how about these representative examples just for starters.... ...W1RFI ...KE4ZV ...KA9Q ...WB9IVR(SK) ...KE3Z Have those listed individuals been here in the last year? Last two years? Ed Hare (W1RFI) and Jon Bloom (KE3Z) are both EMPLOEES of the ARRL. [Jon makes more than Ed] I suppose either or both could run for some League office, but, to avoid obvious conflict of interest charges and finger-pointing, they would have to quit. Gary Coffman (KE4ZV) USED to post in here on a fairly regular basis. If he is running for some kind of post, I don't know it and will civilly accept a correction. He hasn't been here lately. Phil Karn (KA9Q) is vice-president for technology of Qualcomm. I remember only one posting from him in THIS newsgroup. Remember that "cell phones 'always' fail in an emergency" and can't ever be used for emergency communications according to some amateur mythologists. :-) [Qualcomm makes cell phone stuff for those too iggorant to keep up with raddio things] Hiram Percy Maxim (W1AW) is reputed to have "done a lot for amateur radio" but he passed on before the electronic computer became reality, well before the PC and the Internet existed. Don Stoner did a lot for advancing the state of the (HF) amateur radio art and he and Pierre Goral formed a company in WA state called SGC (the Stoner-Goral Company). I don't think either one has been here, much less lately. They are both SK now. All sorts of names come to mind. What else would you like to be corrected on? :-) |
"John Smith" wrote in message ... Here you have a true picture of the sorry state of amateur radio. A bunch of ancient, silly old men lying about military service, and arguing about such... all which has nothing to do with the amateur hobby in this century, in this millennium... These subjects, which the vast majority of amateurs have no interest in, do nothing to assist amateur radio, indeed, they only further aids its' decay. CW is as important to the future as the model A, the steam engine, the the horse and buggy, etc... and yet you have the greatest expenditure of energy revolving around it. There are no men with the vision, courage and skills to be able to step in and move focus on points which would move amateur radio ahead... Only old gossipers using ancient technology to further their own self-serving interests are the problem, sane men have fled for other frontiers... It is ridiculous to watch... John Actually John the boys on 75 meters will have much to talk about over the comming days with Hurrican Katrina and it's effects on New Orleans. Last night I was listening up on 3.9-- and heard conversations going on like.......... "..hey Clem, did you just see the bigassed black woman complaining on MS-NBC because shes been waiting for 3 hours to get into the Superdome with her 4 nigglets and how that it ain't right keeping needy families out in the rain.... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!" (to which Clem -name changed- replies:) "naw I'm watchin CNN ain't interested, those ni-gers can all drown for what I care" It's great to see that Ham Radio still has it's monopoly on racist 4-land rednecks like it had back in 1950. Then I went to tuning across the band and the hurricane was the topic of conversation with comments like tihis: "I saw a pix of the bros packing in there a few min ago.. can U imagine the stench when the toilets back up from the flooding??? Ughhhh.... Think about the smell of the food wrappers and food leftovers in the trash cans, the dregs of New Orleans without showers. Unless they let people cycle through the dressing room showers. It will be funky enough with the sewers working. The really sad part is the foreigners who were caught in all this. They will be stuck in the Superdome with the very worst America has to offer." |
Len:
Yes, I think I rather like carl... At first I was just wondering if he was another status quo type, and maybe they have managed to transform him into one. But, when someone had posted past comments of his (which I was in horror to watch him apologize for!) I realized he might be the right man for the job, at least a help rather than a hindrance. But, you are correct... it is morbidly fascinating, in sick way... frown John On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:47:30 -0700, wrote: From: John Smith on Aug 29, 8:08 am Here you have a true picture of the sorry state of amateur radio. A bunch of ancient, silly old men lying about military service, and arguing about such... all which has nothing to do with the amateur hobby in this century, in this millennium... These subjects, which the vast majority of amateurs have no interest in, do nothing to assist amateur radio, indeed, they only further aids its' decay. CW is as important to the future as the model A, the steam engine, the the horse and buggy, etc... and yet you have the greatest expenditure of energy revolving around it. There are no men with the vision, courage and skills to be able to step in and move focus on points which would move amateur radio ahead... Actually, there ARE those. Only one of them has been in this newsgroup (Carl Stevenson)...and has been roundly booed or snubbed by those "ancient, silly old men" you mentioned. Only old gossipers using ancient technology to further their own self-serving interests are the problem, sane men have fled for other frontiers... It is ridiculous to watch... I find it morbidly fascinating! :-) |
All,
I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire |
From: on Aug 30, 3:15 pm
All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. ONLY if the ionosphere is "kind" to you and you stay BELOW VHF. Get below MF and them lil QRP things will go dead. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. The "digital" label is incorrect. Since OOK CW morse has only two states, carrier-on or carrier-off, it is BINARY. The Morse-Vail "code" is so simple in technology that it can be done with wires and a battery, NO radio required. Why are you doing the ex deus machina thing? What are you using to get your posting out to the rest of the Internet? 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! In 1844 the Morse-Vail Telegraph successfully demonstrated wired communications between Baltimore, MD, and Washington, DC. WITHOUT any radio whatsoever! That should "qualify" as "contact one state away." If "contacting another state" is so important, I need only drive a day or two to another state...where I can stand in that state and TALK to three other states! No radio of any kind needed! :-) To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. Obi-wannabe, a "lightsaber" is a FICTIONAL thing out of the imaginary world of George Lucas' creativity. It does NOT exist. Neither do "Jedi Knights." Such is FICTION. Don't tell me you are going to drag out the 1996 movie "Independence Day" as a "documentary?!?" :-) |
wrote in message oups.com... All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire CW is not the narrowest bandwidth mode; currently, psk-31 is. With something like a 32 Hz bandwidth, cw pales in comparison with its' 100 to 200 Hz bandwidth. That said, it is easy to grab a key (or keyer) and have an intelligent conversation (yes, the cw gang can and does rag-chew) with simple equipment. It should be noted that PSK takes its' cue from CW in that it is a variable-length encoded mode. Like CW, the most common characters are the shortest (and CW is worthless? Folks learned and built upon the earlier mode). PSK-31 can send/receiver far faster than the best cw operator can send/receive. However, there are some folks that argue that keyboards are obsolete. I suspect they simply want no tests LOL. CW can be a most effective way of communicating your message. One guy on a local repeater was screaming "cw forever". Fortunately, the repeater owner was in the group so ..... int f2? And .... 40 words per minute mcw was sent over the repeater. The owner had no problem. I had no problem. Yes, I can stir the pot a bit LOL The guy pushing for cw only? My point was made :))) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire CW is not the narrowest bandwidth mode; currently, psk-31 is. With something like a 32 Hz bandwidth, cw pales in comparison with its' 100 to 200 Hz bandwidth. However CW is the lowest power consumption mode. All the other digital modes require a computer and monitor. The latter two combined can require 250watts to 350 watts even before adding in the transmitter requirements. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire CW is not the narrowest bandwidth mode; currently, psk-31 is. With something like a 32 Hz bandwidth, cw pales in comparison with its' 100 to 200 Hz bandwidth. However CW is the lowest power consumption mode. All the other digital modes require a computer and monitor. The latter two combined can require 250watts to 350 watts even before adding in the transmitter requirements. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE An excellent point, Dee Of course, if your computer is a Cray ..... Just plug into your nearest substation LOL. A good point and well taken. Then again, RTTY does not necessarily require a computer. Anyone have a model 28 ASR? :))) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire CW is not the narrowest bandwidth mode; currently, psk-31 is. With something like a 32 Hz bandwidth, cw pales in comparison with its' 100 to 200 Hz bandwidth. However CW is the lowest power consumption mode. All the other digital modes require a computer and monitor. The latter two combined can require 250watts to 350 watts even before adding in the transmitter requirements. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE An excellent point, Dee Of course, if your computer is a Cray ..... Just plug into your nearest substation LOL. A good point and well taken. Then again, RTTY does not necessarily require a computer. Anyone have a model 28 ASR? :))) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA Curiosity prompts me to ask how much power that drew? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
wrote in message
oups.com... All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. (SNIP of arguments as to USE) To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire The current rules chnange does NOT prohibit you or anyone else from USING morse code. The rules, if changed as per NPRM 05-235, only ends the code test. Anyone now or in the future will still be able to learn and use morse code to their heart's content. Cheers, Bill K2UNK |
Obi-wannabe, a "lightsaber" is a FICTIONAL thing out of the
imaginary world of George Lucas' creativity. It does NOT exist. Neither do "Jedi Knights." Such is FICTION. Don't tell me you are going to drag out the 1996 movie "Independence Day" as a "documentary?!?" :-) Oh come on, don't you know a metaphor when you see one? A little escapism is good for the human soul. The Eternal Squire |
From: Dee Flint on Aug 30, 7:00 pm
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message wrote in message CW is not the narrowest bandwidth mode; currently, psk-31 is. With something like a 32 Hz bandwidth, cw pales in comparison with its' 100 to 200 Hz bandwidth. However CW is the lowest power consumption mode. All the other digital modes require a computer and monitor. Tsk, tsk, BAD engineer! Go sit in the corner cubicle with Wally. No, "all the other digital modes" do NOT need a full-on PC. It is COMMON to use a full-on PC because that is the SIMPLEST solution to implementing such mode...and because so few manufacturers have designed and made stand-alone equipment for some digital modes. One example that was withdrawn from kit production was the DZ Engineering "PSKube," a stand-alone PSK31 transceiver. Full manual and details, photos, are available at the DZ website. The latter two combined can require 250watts to 350 watts even before adding in the transmitter requirements. Tsk, tsk, tsk! Why not figure in the entire HOUSE that holds the radio? :-) Back in 1947 or so, ENIAC was crunching numbers using around 50 thousand tubes (give or take) and gulping KWe like a small housing project. In 2000, my little HP 32S II pocket programmable calculator was loaded with three small Lithium-ion battery cells and allowed me to crunch numbers FASTER than ENIAC, with MORE PRECISION than ENIAC, with FAR MORE RELIABILITY than ENIAC, and had MORE BUILT-IN FUNCTIONS for calculation than was even dreamed of for ENIAC. Ya know what? It still has those SAME BATTERIES! Even after seeing a lot of use, it still has the juice. Go take apart an AMTOR peripheral coupler, analyze its innards, and report back on power consumption. A modern one, not one of the first using discrete transistors. Ain't no 100 Watt power consumption or even close to it. My ancient HP 722 inkjet printer takes only a few Watts on standby, hardly more than that to print text at a reasonable rate; it has an in-line-cord 'wall wart' style power supply unit that doesn't get warm in-use. I grant you that an electronic display takes some Watts. I don't immediately recall the power demand on my Samsung 712n flat-panel display but just from feeling the top vents, it can't be more than 50 Watts. It's a year old and as bright as ever, fine distortionless detail, a "17-inch" size flat-panel. That display COULD simultaneously show all the details of an operating HF transceiver as well as the text into and out of an AMTOR box (or any of the 'TORs). Of course that needs the computer box itself which DOES take some Watts...but the box power demand has dropped considerably since 1981 in addition to increasing its functioning waayyyyyy above the original 4 MHz clock first Boca Raton boxes. The HP box I've got now is lazily doing all this word processing, running SETI@home data unit in the background, running diagnostics on itself, all seemingly simultaneous. It can do much more, and does with AVIs or MPEGs and other things. Might I suggest an even ittier-bittier power demand "CW" unit, doesn't even need a hardware receiver, just the optical wetware and perhaps a telescope (zero power demand). Connect a manual code key in place of a white-LED flashlight switch and "blip" away as fast as you can in morse code. No problem, the LED light can follow all amateur Data on-off switching. Excellent efficiency in Lumens/Watt, better than a transistorized Class C amplifier. Of course, the frequency is ABOVE the maximum ITU frequency allocation of 300 GHz and therefore doesn't need any license of any kind! Of course, daylight operation isn't too swift for "DX." :-) bit bit |
Oh come on, don't you know a metaphor when you see one?
A little escapism is good for the human soul. Metaphors be with you Obi-wannabe. "Escapism" is wonderful for the movies. In radio-electronics things ain't fantasy. I learned that long, long ago, on Terra not far away. Electrons, fields, and waves behave by THEIR rules, not human ones. You learn THEIR rules and work with those, then you've got a chance to make them do your bidding. Believe in THAT, not magic or the moom-pitchas. Have you memorized the rectangular-form complex number arithmetic yet? |
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire CW is not the narrowest bandwidth mode; currently, psk-31 is. With something like a 32 Hz bandwidth, cw pales in comparison with its' 100 to 200 Hz bandwidth. That said, it is easy to grab a key (or keyer) and have an intelligent conversation (yes, the cw gang can and does rag-chew) with simple equipment. It should be noted that PSK takes its' cue from CW in that it is a variable-length encoded mode. Like CW, the most common characters are the shortest (and CW is worthless? Folks learned and built upon the earlier mode). PSK-31 can send/receiver far faster than the best cw operator can send/receive. However, there are some folks that argue that keyboards are obsolete. I suspect they simply want no tests LOL. CW can be a most effective way of communicating your message. One guy on a local repeater was screaming "cw forever". Fortunately, the repeater owner was in the group so ..... int f2? And .... 40 words per minute mcw was sent over the repeater. The owner had no problem. I had no problem. Yes, I can stir the pot a bit LOL The guy pushing for cw only? My point was made :))) And either one can really play havoc with the truckers! J 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
"Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... "Dee Flint" wrote in message ... "Jim Hampton" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... All, I am a somewhat younger person (43 yrs) and I still see a use for CW. 1) Since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can squeeze it in between massive amounts of QRM on the 40 meter band and still manage to get heard. 2) Again, since it has the narrowest bandwidth of any mode, you can get more kilometers per watt out of the signal... basically you get reach the furtherest across the world with it. 3) It is the only digital mode that does not require computer machinery to interpret. 4) It the mode that requiring the simplest of equipment to implement. Worst case, one could use crystal oscillator and a crystal receiver to make a contact one state away. Try that with SSB or packet! To me, CW is to communication as a lightsaber is to combat: both are archaic, elegant, and extremely effective ways of getting your point made. There might not be Jedi in this galaxy, but in my mind CW operation is the next best thing. The Eternal Squire CW is not the narrowest bandwidth mode; currently, psk-31 is. With something like a 32 Hz bandwidth, cw pales in comparison with its' 100 to 200 Hz bandwidth. However CW is the lowest power consumption mode. All the other digital modes require a computer and monitor. The latter two combined can require 250watts to 350 watts even before adding in the transmitter requirements. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE An excellent point, Dee Of course, if your computer is a Cray ..... Just plug into your nearest substation LOL. A good point and well taken. Then again, RTTY does not necessarily require a computer. Anyone have a model 28 ASR? :))) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA Curiosity prompts me to ask how much power that drew? Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Hello, Dee I have no idea, but they certainly were large and made quite a bit of racket :) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim AA2QA |
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