LRod posted:

"K2, huh? New York City? That explains why you were able to work
"multiple states." You have, what, six of them within 100 miles? Try
that in any state west of the Appalachins."

No, central New Jersey. Dhuh!

"Whiny old timer, out of touch with reality, loss of memory of old time

ham radio, ****ed because of Incentive Licensing, lets other people
determine his enjoyment of a hobby, still hanging around the amateur
radio newsgroups despite being unlicensed for nearly a quarter
century."

No Mr. Dork, I simply lost interest in ham radio when it became
infested with clueless CB types who only hold ham tickets because they
crammed their way through the licensing exams. When store purchased
commercial rigs appeared, the ham bands became cluttered with these
types to the extent that one QSO after another led to nothing but
uninformed, mindless blathering as it remains today.

However, I am forever grateful to my ham radio experience because it
led the way for me to obtain my First Class Commercial ticket, my job
as chief engineer of a Trenton, NJ radio station, and ultimately paid
for my BS level college education at Drexel University. The knowledge
acquired though my ham activities also qualified me for a coop job as a
transmitter designer at Barker & Williamson (the B&W 5100 xmtr was one
of my projects and later the Army's T368 transmitter.) My ham radio
and educational background ultimately led me to a 15+ year career with
Raytheon developing military electronics.

When active as a ham, the majority of my time was spent developing and
perfecting ham TV rigs and TTY systems that represented the cutting
edge technology of that time when the joy of building and operating a
conventional CW, AM, or SSB rig became old hat.

What saddens me most is the degree to which ham radio has become
emasculated and rendered devoid of almost all technical value. Bitter,
no. Saddened, yes!

Harry C.

wrote:
LRod posted:

"K2, huh? New York City? That explains why you were able to work
"multiple states." You have, what, six of them within 100 miles? Try
that in any state west of the Appalachins."

No, central New Jersey. Dhuh!

which is close for the point to be valid

"Whiny old timer, out of touch with reality, loss of memory of old time

ham radio, ****ed because of Incentive Licensing, lets other people
determine his enjoyment of a hobby, still hanging around the amateur
radio newsgroups despite being unlicensed for nearly a quarter
century."

No Mr. Dork, I simply lost interest in ham radio when it became
infested with clueless CB types who only hold ham tickets because they
crammed their way through the licensing exams. When store purchased
commercial rigs appeared, the ham bands became cluttered with these
types to the extent that one QSO after another led to nothing but
uninformed, mindless blathering as it remains today.

Hmm you lost interest but you are HERE engaging in debate over it

However, I am forever grateful to my ham radio experience because it
led the way for me to obtain my First Class Commercial ticket, my job
as chief engineer of a Trenton, NJ radio station, and ultimately paid
for my BS level college education at Drexel University. The knowledge
acquired though my ham activities also qualified me for a coop job as a
transmitter designer at Barker & Williamson (the B&W 5100 xmtr was one
of my projects and later the Army's T368 transmitter.) My ham radio
and educational background ultimately led me to a 15+ year career with
Raytheon developing military electronics.

When active as a ham, the majority of my time was spent developing and
perfecting ham TV rigs and TTY systems that represented the cutting
edge technology of that time when the joy of building and operating a
conventional CW, AM, or SSB rig became old hat.

What saddens me most is the degree to which ham radio has become
emasculated and rendered devoid of almost all technical value. Bitter,
no. Saddened, yes!

looks like one the fellas still ****ed over Incentive licensing and
blaming those who just followed the rules laid down for getting their
licenses for the rulst of the ARRL's games back then, some several
decades ago

wlaks like a duck quacks like a duck, it likely is a duck, or in this
case an Bitter Old Timer

Harry C.

wrote in message
ups.com...
LRod posted:

"K2, huh? New York City? That explains why you were able to work
"multiple states." You have, what, six of them within 100 miles? Try
that in any state west of the Appalachins."

No, central New Jersey. Dhuh!

"Whiny old timer, out of touch with reality, loss of memory of old time

ham radio, ****ed because of Incentive Licensing, lets other people
determine his enjoyment of a hobby, still hanging around the amateur
radio newsgroups despite being unlicensed for nearly a quarter
century."

No Mr. Dork, I simply lost interest in ham radio when it became
infested with clueless CB types who only hold ham tickets because they
crammed their way through the licensing exams. When store purchased
commercial rigs appeared, the ham bands became cluttered with these
types to the extent that one QSO after another led to nothing but
uninformed, mindless blathering as it remains today.

However, I am forever grateful to my ham radio experience because it
led the way for me to obtain my First Class Commercial ticket, my job
as chief engineer of a Trenton, NJ radio station, and ultimately paid
for my BS level college education at Drexel University. The knowledge
acquired though my ham activities also qualified me for a coop job as a
transmitter designer at Barker & Williamson (the B&W 5100 xmtr was one
of my projects and later the Army's T368 transmitter.) My ham radio
and educational background ultimately led me to a 15+ year career with
Raytheon developing military electronics.

When active as a ham, the majority of my time was spent developing and
perfecting ham TV rigs and TTY systems that represented the cutting
edge technology of that time when the joy of building and operating a
conventional CW, AM, or SSB rig became old hat.

What saddens me most is the degree to which ham radio has become
emasculated and rendered devoid of almost all technical value. Bitter,
no. Saddened, yes!

Harry C.


Can't argue with that. But you know there is still a lot of interest going
on. Satellites are one. The new digital modes are quite interesting.

I still enjoy a good CW contact. And I operate a fair amount of SSB. And
your right, real hams are few and far between.

If you want to find out what is happening now in ham radio....THIS IS NOT
THE PLACE TO DO IT.

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
oups.com...
Korbin posted:

"Well FM on 2, 6 or 10m is not used for Field Day, I don't know why but
its
not."

First, likely I missed in in the original post, but I don't recall him
mentioning the use of FM modulation. In every field day and emergency
preparedness I have ever participated in, a.m was the accepted
standard.

Second, the use of a 75-watt transmitter with a collinear raised
30-feet above the ground on field day? Evidently TOM doesn't grasp the
spirit of the event which combines with the fact that he isn't a very
experienced ham operator. Then too, the ham community has eroded
considerably since these exercises were devised. In fact, a competent
ham should have been nearly able to work multiple states with the rig
he has described.

Anybody left alive here that remembers the 2M Gooney Box, the rig that
was the standard for ham emergency communication for more years than I
personally care to remember? Its final was a 2E26; Its antenna was
typically a quarter-wave stub (a piece of stiff wire poked into the UHF
connector on the top of its box or an antenna consisting of a half-wave
piece of tv twin line. Its output was anywhere from 5-watts to 10-watts
run into that improvised antenna. When battery powered on field day,
the output of the rig was arguably between 3 and 5-watts.

Still on field day exercises conducted in preparation for an emergency,
even the low power rigs with a minimal antenna could garnish at least
50 contact on field day, but this was during the 1970s. Ham radio has
seriously declined since that time. This is why I ceased to renew my
K2JEZ General Class license around 1982.

Read into my above comments what ever you want.

Harry C.


Yes indeed....I cut my "phone" teeth with the Gonset II. I used a 10
element antenna, built up a balun for the antenna and fed it with 300 ohm
twin. Made another balun and stuck it into the coax connector. I learned
how to do that from my ARRL Handbook, circa 1961.

Put it outside my bedroom window and regularly worked stations in New York,
most of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, etc. This from North East Ohio.
Armstrong rotar of course.

Activity is a MAJOR factor. Hams now think 2m FM is all there is on VHF.
What a pity.

Dan/W4NTI

TOM wrote:
I thought I might share a couple of observations I've made regarding the
Amateur Service; the situation in other locations may differ.

Based upon my adventures last year in Florida when we got pounded by three
hurricanes I was interested in finding out the utility of my Ham two meter
transceiver by taking advantage of Field Day (simulated emergency test) in
June. I raised a collinear with an advertised gain of 7 dB to thirty feet
and powered my transceiver with a deep cycle battery. Operating on the
'National Simplex Calling Frequency' 146.52 MHz with 75 watts output power I
attempted to find out how many stations I could contact and the extent of my
operating range during the test. From my numerous calls I was able to
contact NO ONE! Not one person responded to my Field Day calls throughout
the day and I heard NO ONE calling Field Day! Not one Ham could I find
operating Field Day on the two meter National Simplex Calling Frequency! Yet
to my surprise, I was able to consistently 'key-up' repeaters from
Jacksonville to Palm Bay---approximately 2/3's the length of the state of
Florida. And to consider, this is an amateur service simulated emergency
test in Florida occurring only 10 months after the destruction of Charley,
Frances, and Jeanne. It made me wonder just how interested Hams are in
emergency communications. I did have a nice conversation with a fellow 100
miles away via his repeater.

How many hams do you think are going to be on two meters?

Knowing the propagation characteristics of two meters, do you
extrapolate how many hams are on two meters across the nation?

hint: there *are* some, but not very many. If you think about it a bit,
you will come up with the reasons why.


With regard to the Alaskan Emergency Frequency of 5167.5 kHz. As the FCC
recently granted amateurs five channels in the HF (60 meter) band: 5332,
5348, 5368, 5373, and 5405 kHz, it would seem to me that the ARRL would have
taken an interest and evaluate those frequencies for channelized emergency
operations. The frequencies between the 75 and 40 meters bands might offer
propagation characteristics of both bands and make those channels
particularly useful for short and long haul message handling.
Furthermore, the Alaskan Emergency Frequency channel might be added to the
new assignment for emergency use in the lower 48. Ideally, the 60 meter
amateur band might become an important part of an emergency response
provided by the amateur service. But, I just don't see any interest by the
ARRL and those frequencies, every time I check them, remain unused.
A citation from the ARRL's Petition for Rule Making to the FCC
concluded, in part, "An Amateur Allocation in this band (60 meters) would
improve the Amateur Service's already exemplary record of providing
emergency
communications during natural disasters when even modern communications
systems typically fail." Perhaps the ARRL may take a break from their
publishing activities someday and investigate its possibilities.

Why the ARRL? Go straight to the FCC with your idea. They are the ones
who are calling the shots.

Additionally, its odd about the amateur service that proclaims itself to be
devoted to emergency service but dropped its distress frequencies. Until
the 1960's the ARRL had specific calling frequencies reserved for distress
and safety in the HF bands for radiotelephone and radiotelegraphy. These
frequencies were regularly printed in its journal 'QST'. I haven't found
out why the ARRL dropped them. Its beyon my comprehension that a
communications service, world wide in extent, that doesn't assign
frequencies,
routinely monitored, for distress signaling and calling.

Whenever there is an emergency, frequencies *are* designated for
emergency handling net purposes.

And as for a full time designated frequency, it isn't needed. Is there
a good reason why a person should call on a frequency where no one might
be listening. If I have an emergency and need to get hold of someone,
I'm going to go to some frequency where I can hear someone already.

Of course, we *could* always use CB channel 9! ;^)



Similarly, some
years ago,
a manufacturer hardly wanted to discuss the necessary modifications of my
transceiver so I could access the, FCC authorized, 5167.5 kHz amateur
service Alaskan Emergency Frequency. It was only through the force of my
professional credentials did they finally agree and sent me the service note
I required. I like to point out that until recently, as far as I know,
Yaesu, (FT-857 and FT-817 for example) is the first amateur equipment
manufacturer to provide amateur equipment capable of accessing the Alaskan
Emergency Frequency without equipment modification. If the amateur service
is so concerned with emergency communications why did it take so long for
this to occur?

After nearly forty years as an amateur radio operator, these are some of the
issues that make me reconsider the utility of the amateur service as an
emergency communications provider . Although the amateur service has
played a significant role in handling emergency communications in the past,
the changing face of technology has relegated the amateur service to
a position of little consequence---possibility, with better leadership,
the amateur service can regain its former stature.

I sincerely think, that with the devastation of Charley, Frances and Jeanne
last year, and Katrina this year, the ARRL really needs to get off their ass
and come up with a serious emergency communications plan. I suspect that
the ARRL is a 'has been' organization and a new vision for amateur radio
(emergency communications) needs to take their place.

I don't think it works that way any more. Volunteer amateurs were kept
out of the affected areas, at least for Katrina. In the system as it is
set up now, we aren't anywhere near calling the shots. Unfortunately
those who have been are perhaps not doing a very good job themselves.

It ain't the ARRL's fault

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote


How many hams do you think are going to be on two meters?

Knowing the propagation characteristics of two meters, do you extrapolate how
many hams are on two meters across the nation?

hint: there *are* some, but not very many.

I'll assume that's true in your area. In this area it's not true -- here
(Minnesota) 2M is far and away the most popular band in use on an everyday
basis.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote


How many hams do you think are going to be on two meters?

Knowing the propagation characteristics of two meters, do you extrapolate how
many hams are on two meters across the nation?

hint: there *are* some, but not very many.


I'll assume that's true in your area. In this area it's not true -- here
(Minnesota) 2M is far and away the most popular band in use on an everyday
basis.

Gosh Hans, I'll bet I was talking about Field day, just like the other
guy was! 8^)

Maybe in Minnesota, everyone is on 2 meters during FD?

- Mike KB3EIA -

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 18:20:03 GMT, "TOM" wrote:

I thought I might share a couple of observations I've made regarding the
Amateur Service; the situation in other locations may differ.

Based upon my adventures last year in Florida when we got pounded by three
hurricanes I was interested in finding out the utility of my Ham two meter
transceiver by taking advantage of Field Day (simulated emergency test) in
June.

Problem #1. The event in June (Field Day) is not a simutlated
emergency test. It is an emergency preparedness exercise. I believe
there are a couple of SETs (actual title) during the year, and at
least one is in the winter, if I recall.

Operating on the 'National Simplex Calling Frequency' 146.52 MHz

Problem #2. I didn't check the FD rules specifically, but the rules
for ARRL contests generally (and don't think that FD isn't a contest)
prohibit contacts on the calling frequencies.

From my numerous calls I was able to contact NO ONE! Not one person
responded to my Field Day calls throughout the day and I heard NO ONE
calling Field Day! Not one Ham could I find operating Field Day on the two
meter National Simplex Calling Frequency!

Based on my previous paragraph, I'm not at all surprised by that.

Yet to my surprise, I was able to consistently 'key-up' repeaters from
Jacksonville to Palm Bay---approximately 2/3's the length of the state of
Florida.

Problem #3. Did you ID every time you kerchunked those repeaters?

And to consider, this is an amateur service simulated emergency
test in Florida occurring only 10 months after the destruction of Charley,
Frances, and Jeanne.

Problem #1A. Field Day still isn't a simulated emergency test.

It made me wonder just how interested Hams are in emergency communications.

Problem #4. I wonder how interested you are in emergency
communications. Why didn't you get together with any local groups and
participate in their Field Day operation? After all, if it was a
simulated emergency test, as you insist on calling it, and you are all
in a lather about hams' interest in emergency communications why
weren't you actively involved in it instead of kerchunking 2M
repeaters?

I did have a nice conversation with a fellow 100 miles away via his repeater.

Instead of participating in the emergency preparedness exercise? Why
didn't you get on HF and work some of the tens of thousands of FD
staions that are on from Saturday through Sunday? If you think wide
area disasters such as hurricanes are going to be well served by 2M FM
communications through repeaters you are as naive as those who think
cell phones are going to be their salvation in the same event.

Ideally, the 60 meter amateur band might become an important part of an
emergency response provided by the amateur service. But, I just don't
see any interest by the ARRL and those frequencies, every time I check
them, remain unused.

What does the allocation say? I haven't looked at it, but when we got
the 10 MHz allocation several years ago it was on a secondary basis
with a fairly serious proscription regarding interference. That and
the narrow bandwidth of the allocation is why 10 MHz is excluded from
both contests and operating awards. Any chance 60M is similar? It
would seem so based on the FD rules segment you quoted: "2. Object: To
work as many stations as possible on any and all amateur bands
(excluding the 60, 30, 17, and 12-meter bands)..."

After nearly forty years as an amateur radio operator, these are some of the
issues that make me reconsider the utility of the amateur service as an
emergency communications provider .

After more than forty years as an amateur radio operator, I see the
emphasis on emergency communications the one consistent thread from
the League all these years. In the local club I was involved with in
Illiniois for several years and the one local club here in Florida it
actually got tiresome as more and more of the 2M ops were more
interested in shiny badges and flashing lights than actual
communications preparedness.

Although the amateur service has played a significant role in handling
emergency communications in the past, the changing face of technology
has relegated the amateur service to a position of little consequence---
possibility, with better leadership, the amateur service can regain its former
stature.

Leadership begins from within. Instead of kerchunking repeaters and
trying to make "contest" contacts on the calling frequency, you should
be participating in FD--if not with an organized group, then by
yourself, on HF, not whining on usenet three months after the event.

I sincerely think, that with the devastation of Charley, Frances and Jeanne
last year, and Katrina this year, the ARRL really needs to get off their ass
and come up with a serious emergency communications plan. I suspect that
the ARRL is a 'has been' organization and a new vision for amateur radio
(emergency communications) needs to take their place.

You said, "based upon my adventures last year in Florida when we got
pounded by three hurricanes..." Did you get off your ass and provide
any emergency communications assistance? Or did you spend your time
kerchunking repeaters in 2/3 of the state?


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

Gee TOM....do you think you had problem on the "National Simplex Frequency"
of 146.52 because you are NOT SUPPOSED TO USE IT for contesting?

Just a thought.

Dan/W4NTI

"TOM" wrote in message
...
I thought I might share a couple of observations I've made regarding the
Amateur Service; the situation in other locations may differ.

Based upon my adventures last year in Florida when we got pounded by three
hurricanes I was interested in finding out the utility of my Ham two meter
transceiver by taking advantage of Field Day (simulated emergency test) in
June. I raised a collinear with an advertised gain of 7 dB to thirty feet
and powered my transceiver with a deep cycle battery. Operating on the
'National Simplex Calling Frequency' 146.52 MHz with 75 watts output power
I
attempted to find out how many stations I could contact and the extent of
my
operating range during the test. From my numerous calls I was able to
contact NO ONE! Not one person responded to my Field Day calls throughout
the day and I heard NO ONE calling Field Day! Not one Ham could I find
operating Field Day on the two meter National Simplex Calling Frequency!
Yet
to my surprise, I was able to consistently 'key-up' repeaters from
Jacksonville to Palm Bay---approximately 2/3's the length of the state of
Florida. And to consider, this is an amateur service simulated emergency
test in Florida occurring only 10 months after the destruction of Charley,
Frances, and Jeanne. It made me wonder just how interested Hams are in
emergency communications. I did have a nice conversation with a fellow
100
miles away via his repeater.

With regard to the Alaskan Emergency Frequency of 5167.5 kHz. As the FCC
recently granted amateurs five channels in the HF (60 meter) band: 5332,
5348, 5368, 5373, and 5405 kHz, it would seem to me that the ARRL would
have
taken an interest and evaluate those frequencies for channelized emergency
operations. The frequencies between the 75 and 40 meters bands might
offer
propagation characteristics of both bands and make those channels
particularly useful for short and long haul message handling.
Furthermore, the Alaskan Emergency Frequency channel might be added to the
new assignment for emergency use in the lower 48. Ideally, the 60 meter
amateur band might become an important part of an emergency response
provided by the amateur service. But, I just don't see any interest by
the
ARRL and those frequencies, every time I check them, remain unused.
A citation from the ARRL's Petition for Rule Making to the FCC
concluded, in part, "An Amateur Allocation in this band (60 meters) would
improve the Amateur Service's already exemplary record of providing
emergency
communications during natural disasters when even modern communications
systems typically fail." Perhaps the ARRL may take a break from their
publishing activities someday and investigate its possibilities.

Additionally, its odd about the amateur service that proclaims itself to
be
devoted to emergency service but dropped its distress frequencies. Until
the 1960's the ARRL had specific calling frequencies reserved for distress
and safety in the HF bands for radiotelephone and radiotelegraphy. These
frequencies were regularly printed in its journal 'QST'. I haven't found
out why the ARRL dropped them. Its beyon my comprehension that a
communications service, world wide in extent, that doesn't assign
frequencies,
routinely monitored, for distress signaling and calling. Similarly, some
years ago,
a manufacturer hardly wanted to discuss the necessary modifications of my
transceiver so I could access the, FCC authorized, 5167.5 kHz amateur
service Alaskan Emergency Frequency. It was only through the force of my
professional credentials did they finally agree and sent me the service
note
I required. I like to point out that until recently, as far as I know,
Yaesu, (FT-857 and FT-817 for example) is the first amateur equipment
manufacturer to provide amateur equipment capable of accessing the Alaskan
Emergency Frequency without equipment modification. If the amateur
service
is so concerned with emergency communications why did it take so long for
this to occur?

After nearly forty years as an amateur radio operator, these are some of
the
issues that make me reconsider the utility of the amateur service as an
emergency communications provider . Although the amateur service has
played a significant role in handling emergency communications in the
past,
the changing face of technology has relegated the amateur service to
a position of little consequence---possibility, with better leadership,
the amateur service can regain its former stature.

I sincerely think, that with the devastation of Charley, Frances and
Jeanne
last year, and Katrina this year, the ARRL really needs to get off their
ass
and come up with a serious emergency communications plan. I suspect that
the ARRL is a 'has been' organization and a new vision for amateur radio
(emergency communications) needs to take their place.

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
Gee TOM....do you think you had problem on the "National Simplex Frequency"
of 146.52 because you are NOT SUPPOSED TO USE IT for contesting?

But... but! That must be the ARRL's fault too, Dan! If Tom wants to
call Field day CQ on his cell phone, he should be able to......

Sorry, just getting a little carried away..


- Mike KB3EIA -