"Never anonymous Bud" wrote:

It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting
an emergency as a reason for transmitting on
a frequency you are NOT licensed for.

Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed
Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit)
radio was off-roading with friends. One of
them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed
he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in
on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400).

The injured person was rescued, but the FCC
filed charges against the Ham guy for
unlicensed operation.

The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated'
his radio to the County.

FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the
frequency he used, and that they make NO
exemption for an emergency.


That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any
means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include
the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur
bands (see last paragraph below).


PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications
Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property.

No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station of any means of radio communications at
its disposal to provide essential communication needs
in connection with the immediate safety of human life
and immediate protection of property when normal
communication systems are not available.

Sec. 97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal
to attract attention, make known its condition and
location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a
station, in the exceptional circumstances described in
paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio
communications at its disposal to assist a station
in distress.

Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a
disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning
emergency operations.

The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment
improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually
using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize
this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this
case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those
frequencies, there would have been no rule violation.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any
means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly
include
the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the
amateur
bands (see last paragraph below).


PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications
Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property.

No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station of any means of radio communications at
its disposal to provide essential communication needs
in connection with the immediate safety of human life
and immediate protection of property when normal
communication systems are not available.

Sec. 97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal
to attract attention, make known its condition and
location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a
station, in the exceptional circumstances described in
paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio
communications at its disposal to assist a station
in distress.

Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a
disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance
concerning
emergency operations.

The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment
improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for
actually
using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize
this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this
case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those
frequencies, there would have been no rule violation.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

Read closer. Part 97 is only for ham radio. It is not rules for any other
service. Note it says THESE RULES. That means you STAY in the HAM BANDS.
Anything out ot the ham bands is not covered in THESE RULES.

There are other rules and Parts for the other frequencies. Just as what may
be legal in your state may not be legal in another state. YOu have to
follow the rules of the state you are in and not the rules of your state
when out of your state.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:14:26 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any
means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly
include
the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the
amateur
bands (see last paragraph below).


PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications
Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property.

No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station of any means of radio communications at
its disposal to provide essential communication needs
in connection with the immediate safety of human life
and immediate protection of property when normal
communication systems are not available.

Sec. 97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal
to attract attention, make known its condition and
location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a
station, in the exceptional circumstances described in
paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio
communications at its disposal to assist a station
in distress.

Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a
disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance
concerning
emergency operations.

The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment
improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for
actually
using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize
this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this
case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those
frequencies, there would have been no rule violation.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

Read closer. Part 97 is only for ham radio. It is not rules for any other
service. Note it says THESE RULES. That means you STAY in the HAM BANDS.
Anything out ot the ham bands is not covered in THESE RULES.

There are other rules and Parts for the other frequencies. Just as what may
be legal in your state may not be legal in another state. YOu have to
follow the rules of the state you are in and not the rules of your state
when out of your state.

Let me quote again the ARRL reference for taking the FCC test.

"In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress
call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think
doing so will bring help faster."

***EVEN OUTSIDE THE AMATEUR BANDS***
As this is a Federal law there can be no local or state laws that
supercede it.


KB9WFK

"You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable
discussion."
'Alan Connor'

In article , Ross Archer
wrote:

I would think that when blacked-out, there would be little
need for communicating. :)

Amen. If one is out of communication, one is out of communication.

This focus on how people can "communicate with their loved ones," which
is what I hear many here and in the press talking about, is bull****.

You'll be home when you get home. Period. Such was it in during the
Punic Wars, the Crusades, WW II, and the War Against Some Terrorists.

Yeah, those at home may feel some anguish. So? Not a survival issue.

If your goal is to just keep in touch with friends and
family, a GMRS or even FRS radio may be your only realistic
option.

Very limited range. Not at all useful when family lives in suburban New
Jersey and affected party is in Manhattan. Or familiy is in Riverside
and affected party is in downtown LA.

Better to just not worry. "I'll be home when I can. Don't run around
like a chicken with your head cut off, trying to call, when such calls
do me no good whatsoever."

--Tim May

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:41:15 GMT, Dwight Stewart
wrote:

"Never anonymous Bud" wrote:

It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting
an emergency as a reason for transmitting on
a frequency you are NOT licensed for.

Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed
Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit)
radio was off-roading with friends. One of
them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed
he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in
on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400).

The injured person was rescued, but the FCC
filed charges against the Ham guy for
unlicensed operation.

The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated'
his radio to the County.

FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the
frequency he used, and that they make NO
exemption for an emergency.


That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any
means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include
the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur
bands (see last paragraph below).


PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE
Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications
Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property.

No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station of any means of radio communications at
its disposal to provide essential communication needs
in connection with the immediate safety of human life
and immediate protection of property when normal
communication systems are not available.

Sec. 97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an
amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal
to attract attention, make known its condition and
location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a
station, in the exceptional circumstances described in
paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio
communications at its disposal to assist a station
in distress.

Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a
disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning
emergency operations.

The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment
improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually
using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize
this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this
case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those
frequencies, there would have been no rule violation.

Interesting technical & legal point, but the law can be like that.

So, for the fun of it, lets introduce more license categories:

Assume, for a start, a military radio operator, various amateur
license categories, CB licensees, emergency service personnel such as
ambulance, police, fire, etc.

Just who is or isn't allowed to use available transceivers under
various circumstances?

No, not trying to be "difficult" here. For practical purposes, it
might not make any real difference in a real emergency, but it might
be interesting to know how the regulations actually read in various
countries and guidelines by the ITU.

At the extreme of "any means" does this mean that anyone can rig an
untuned spark gap transmitter to "call for help" whether he holds any
sort of license or not?

Yeah, I know, I specialize in difficult questions, and often being
correct.

One of the reasons why some people on misc.survivalism hate me. :-)

erniegalts








Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"strabo" wrote:

Generally correct but I wish to make a point...


And you point is well taken.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article , Barry OGrady wrote:

Fact of the matter is that the media generally doesn't like ham radio.
They want to steal the freq's. By the way many of the weather reports
of sever weather you get via tv is sent to the counties via hams,
"skywarn" the counties send it to the weather buro and the tv gets it
from there.

Sounds illegal. Ham radio is not to be used for commercial purposes.

SKYWARN is not used for commercial purposes -- SKYWARN storm spotters
reporting severe weather to an agency who subsequently issues a storm
warning to a television station is no where near commercial purposes.
SKYWARN spotters report to an emergency management agency or the National
Weather service. For more information, see:

http://www.skywarn.org/

--
Clay Irving
Well (s)he is only a type of deer after all so its particularly
spectacular to have learnt English from only 'A Stranger in a Strange
Land' and 'A Clockwork Orange' - Jonathan Stowe in c.l.p.misc

Delphic wrote:

Try looking at the new vx7-r. It is a true dual band radio - you can
monitor 2 different freq at once.

In addition, it is more powerful (5+ watts). Can be modified
(although void warranty and in illegal) to transmit out of its
designed bands (Ham).

It's also about $200-$300 more,...

Or look around for someone that still has the VX-5R in stock; most of the
7R's major features, for a fair bit less.

--
Joe Bramblett, KD5NRH

Tim May wrote:

Cellular phones didn't work either.

This is also mostly not true. Most cell systems were overloaded, but
the carrier signals were largely still operating, due to back up
batteries and generators.

In other words, they weren't working.

--
Joe Bramblett, KD5NRH