RadioBanter - FIGHTING a mobile scanner charge from MN

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FIGHTING a mobile scanner charge from MN

Hi Guys,

I am posting here as I need some ideas in regards to fighting a mobile
scanner charge I received in Minnesota. Any insight, ideas, prior
cases, or anything else you think will help, will be VERY much
appreciated.

Here is a little background. I live on the Wisconsin Minnesota border
and drive a Hummer H1 as my daily driver. I also use it for search and
rescue during blizzards, downpours etc... Because of this I do have a
uniden scanner installed. Of course it is perfectly legal to have in
Wisconsin. Anyway I crossed the border to run some errands for my
mother in-law who is in an assisted living home in Minnesota. I got
pulled over in Minnesota for an improper lane change. Long story short,
I got issued a ticket (misdemeanor)for having a scanner in my Hummer.
So now I am going through the law word by word finding anyway possible
to fight it. The law is so vague, that you can not even bring a
handheld scanner to a Nascar race.

Here is a link to the law:

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/299C/37.html

Here is the kicker. I got this one week before I got my amateur radio
license. Also since I did not know it was illegal in MN, I actually
admitted I could pick up his signal and showed him. So one would think
I am screwed, but I think if I put forth a strong case with my lawyerl,
there is a good chance I can get out of it. The cop made a note of my
model of scanner (Uniden) but did not make note of the antenna. So my
first thought for my defense was that I was mistaken in my admission. I
was thinking maybe changing antennas and show in court that the antenna
was not capable of receiving the police frequencies.

Another idea, was maybe finding some sort of problem with the PD's FCC
license (highly unlikely) and therefor they would not be authorized to
transmit on their frequencies.

Anyway. Anyone have any other ideas? I can not find any case law on
other cases that were successfully defeated.

Thanks guys, your help is really appreciated.

BTW, of couses the cop was a rookie.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:37:52 -0600, Scanner Guy wrote:

... I got this one week before I got my amateur radio
license....

Check the issue date of your amateur radio license.
The FCC might have issued the
license a week before you physically received it.

--
================================================== =======================
Bob Parnass, AJ9S GNU/Linux User http://parnass.com

Thanks for the suggestion Bob. Yeah, I checked that previously and the
issue date is about one week after the date of my ticket.

Jerry

Check the issue date of your amateur radio license.
The FCC might have issued the
license a week before you physically received it.

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I never thought I'd say anything like this. It is the law of that state
and you broke it......Pay the fine.
The cop might be a rookie but you going to court and lying about what
you told him is only going to make matters worse!
Saying your scanner can't pick up police frequencies after showing the
cop that it will, not a smart move.
Think about this, if you did beat the charge by lying, would that cop
not dislike you for making him look like a liar, would he not pull you
over everytime he sees your vehicle and maybe write bogus tickets to you?
Here's the best way to beat that ticket, just don't pay it and never
goto Minnesota again!

Scanner Guy wrote:
Hi Guys,

I am posting here as I need some ideas in regards to fighting a mobile
scanner charge I received in Minnesota. Any insight, ideas, prior
cases, or anything else you think will help, will be VERY much
appreciated.

Here is a little background. I live on the Wisconsin Minnesota border
and drive a Hummer H1 as my daily driver. I also use it for search and
rescue during blizzards, downpours etc... Because of this I do have a
uniden scanner installed. Of course it is perfectly legal to have in
Wisconsin. Anyway I crossed the border to run some errands for my
mother in-law who is in an assisted living home in Minnesota. I got
pulled over in Minnesota for an improper lane change. Long story short,
I got issued a ticket (misdemeanor)for having a scanner in my Hummer.
So now I am going through the law word by word finding anyway possible
to fight it. The law is so vague, that you can not even bring a
handheld scanner to a Nascar race.

Here is a link to the law:

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/299C/37.html

Here is the kicker. I got this one week before I got my amateur radio
license. Also since I did not know it was illegal in MN, I actually
admitted I could pick up his signal and showed him. So one would think
I am screwed, but I think if I put forth a strong case with my lawyerl,
there is a good chance I can get out of it. The cop made a note of my
model of scanner (Uniden) but did not make note of the antenna. So my
first thought for my defense was that I was mistaken in my admission. I
was thinking maybe changing antennas and show in court that the antenna
was not capable of receiving the police frequencies.

Another idea, was maybe finding some sort of problem with the PD's FCC
license (highly unlikely) and therefor they would not be authorized to
transmit on their frequencies.

Anyway. Anyone have any other ideas? I can not find any case law on
other cases that were successfully defeated.

Thanks guys, your help is really appreciated.

BTW, of couses the cop was a rookie.

My first suggestion is to not commit any more crimes. This means that you
pay the ticket if you have to. Even small crimes have a nasty habit of
showing up later in life and causing problems for you.

I recommend that you get some documentation of your search and rescue work
and show it to the judge. This will show him that you lave a legitimate
purpose for having the radio in the vehicle. After all, that is the intent
of the law - to keep radios out of the cars of people who don't have a
legitimate purpose for them. bring any membership cards you have showing
that you belong to a search and rescue group. Get a letter from the leader
of your organization on official letterhead telling the judge about your
search and rescue work. Bring photos of you on the job, a photo of you in
some sort of search and rescue outfit or uniform is even better. Bring a
witness who has worked with you if necessary. Judges like people who
volunteer in their communities. Make sure he understands what you do.

Also bring your new amateur radio license. Even if the date of issue is
after your ticket, the license shows that the law is trying to accommodate
people like you. Don't mention the date on the amateur license but if the
Judge brings it up don't lie. Never lie.

Bring a copy of the law for the judge to reference because he may have never
had this issue come before him yet.

If you mail copies of all this documentation to the court clerk well in
advance then the judge might have the opportunity to review it before you
get to court. Even if he doesn't see it until your court date it looks
better when the documentation is already in the files and not coming out of
your pocket.

My advice is to show the judge all the above documentation and then throw
yourself of the mercy of the court. Explain that you didn't intend to
violate the spirit of that law. Ask the judge politely if he will be
willing to dismiss the ticket. If he refuses to dismiss because
technically you did violate the letter of the law then ask the judge if he
would be willing to find you guilty but waive the fine.

Good luck!!

Scanner Guy wrote in message ...
Hi Guys,

I am posting here as I need some ideas in regards to fighting a mobile
scanner charge I received in Minnesota. Any insight, ideas, prior
cases, or anything else you think will help, will be VERY much
appreciated.

Here is a little background. I live on the Wisconsin Minnesota border
and drive a Hummer H1 as my daily driver. I also use it for search and
rescue during blizzards, downpours etc... Because of this I do have a
uniden scanner installed. Of course it is perfectly legal to have in
Wisconsin. Anyway I crossed the border to run some errands for my
mother in-law who is in an assisted living home in Minnesota. I got
pulled over in Minnesota for an improper lane change. Long story short,
I got issued a ticket (misdemeanor)for having a scanner in my Hummer.
So now I am going through the law word by word finding anyway possible
to fight it. The law is so vague, that you can not even bring a
handheld scanner to a Nascar race.

Here is a link to the law:

http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stats/299C/37.html

Here is the kicker. I got this one week before I got my amateur radio
license. Also since I did not know it was illegal in MN, I actually
admitted I could pick up his signal and showed him. So one would think
I am screwed, but I think if I put forth a strong case with my lawyerl,
there is a good chance I can get out of it. The cop made a note of my
model of scanner (Uniden) but did not make note of the antenna. So my
first thought for my defense was that I was mistaken in my admission. I
was thinking maybe changing antennas and show in court that the antenna
was not capable of receiving the police frequencies.

Another idea, was maybe finding some sort of problem with the PD's FCC
license (highly unlikely) and therefor they would not be authorized to
transmit on their frequencies.

Anyway. Anyone have any other ideas? I can not find any case law on
other cases that were successfully defeated.

Thanks guys, your help is really appreciated.

BTW, of couses the cop was a rookie.

Very dumb and stupid move.

When you get pulled over for something, you respond "no sir" and "yes
sir"... not "I've got a scanner and can hear everything you say... wanna
hear yourself over the radio"? Hell... no wonder you got a ticket for being
so arrogant.

That's kind of like saying to a cop "my radar detector didn't go off"...
just saying that will get you a ticket.

You're not helping any of us mobile scanner owners by bragging to cops about
how you can monitor their conversations.

My advice... pay the ticket and hopefully you learned a lesson. At least he
didn't take your radio.

"Scanner Guy" wrote in message
...

Also since I did not know it was illegal in MN, I actually
admitted I could pick up his signal and showed him.

+4db +2db 0db +2db +4db

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

noise............................................. ..Signal

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:45:51 -0600, "a1mixer"
wrote:

Very dumb and stupid move.

When you get pulled over for something, you respond "no sir" and "yes
sir"... not "I've got a scanner and can hear everything you say... wanna
hear yourself over the radio"? Hell... no wonder you got a ticket for being
so arrogant.

That's kind of like saying to a cop "my radar detector didn't go off"...
just saying that will get you a ticket.

You're not helping any of us mobile scanner owners by bragging to cops about
how you can monitor their conversations.

My advice... pay the ticket and hopefully you learned a lesson. At least he
didn't take your radio.

"Scanner Guy" wrote in message
...

Also since I did not know it was illegal in MN, I actually
admitted I could pick up his signal and showed him.

remove SPAMSUCKS to reply

Bill wrote:
Also bring your new amateur radio license. Even if the date of issue is
after your ticket, the license shows that the law is trying to accommodate
people like you.

Even if the date of issue is after his ticket, it's probably NOT before
he was told he passed the exam and would certainly have a license.

--
Consider http://www.clifto.com/goodguys.html before you vote.

You drive a $100,000+ vehicle as your "daily driver."
AM General claims the H1 will get 12 mpg around town and 17 on the
highway.
Gas in your neck of the woods is just under $2/g.
How much is the fine, $50, $100?
Just pay it.
Oh...and just how did you know the cop was rookie?
Was he wearing a special rookie badge that you noticed when he looked
down into your driver-side window.

Your name would be Emilio, would it?

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:05:02 -0600, clifto wrote:

Bill wrote:
Also bring your new amateur radio license. Even if the date of issue is
after your ticket, the license shows that the law is trying to accommodate
people like you.

Even if the date of issue is after his ticket, it's probably NOT before
he was told he passed the exam and would certainly have a license.

Actually you are officially licensed and can start operating
as soon as your license appears in the FCC database. They tell you to
check frequently as the license may appear in the mail some time
later.

Oops. Spelling error.

Your name wouldn't be Emilio, would it?

I missed the beginning of the thread, so I apologize if this has been
covered or I am not close to topic.
Hams are not required to carry proof of license. You are only required to
have your license at a fixed position.

WC

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:
Also bring your new amateur radio license. Even if the date of issue is
after your ticket, the license shows that the law is trying to
accommodate
people like you.

Even if the date of issue is after his ticket, it's probably NOT before
he was told he passed the exam and would certainly have a license.

--
Consider http://www.clifto.com/goodguys.html before you vote.

Wet Chicken wrote:
Hams are not required to carry proof of license. You are only required to
have your license at a fixed position.

Hams are not required to carry proof of license *by Federal law*
*to operate radio gear*. I believe the requirement to have a copy of
the station license at the station still applies, not positive if
that requires a copy at the mobile station.

Hams can be required to carry proof of license *by state law* *for
laws that provide exemptions to hams*. You couldn't be prosecuted
for not carrying the license, but you might not be given the exemption
such a law offers and so might be prosecuted, not for not carrying the
license, but for breaking the law that you lost the exemption for.

--
"Can't we all just learn to live together?" -- Rodney King
'***THWAP***' -- 100,000,000 million minds reacting in synchrony

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Wet Chicken wrote:
Hams are not required to carry proof of license. You are only required
to
have your license at a fixed position.

IMHO, (with a few facts thrown it)
If you operate ham gear where your at, your required to have your license.
If state law requires you to be a licensed ham to operate a mobile scanner,
your required to have your license in your possession. This isn't rocket
science.
Its common sense. If you break the law or make a fool out of yourself
showing
the nice police officer things that an intelligent person would keep to
themselves,
you pay the price, learn from it, & become a better man for
it..........................
Forget this crap about trying to prove everyone else wrong, if you really
want to
save face, be a man - forget it - & move on. Pay the dumb fine,Going to
court,
wasting taxpayers time and money trying to prove your something your not is
stupid.
That's what got you into this mess to begin with. Look it up - the law
tells you when
your to have your license in your possession.

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Wet Chicken wrote:
Hams are not required to carry proof of license. You are only required
to
have your license at a fixed position.

Hams are not required to carry proof of license *by Federal law*
*to operate radio gear*. I believe the requirement to have a copy of
the station license at the station still applies, not positive if
that requires a copy at the mobile station.

Hams can be required to carry proof of license *by state law* *for
laws that provide exemptions to hams*. You couldn't be prosecuted
for not carrying the license, but you might not be given the exemption
such a law offers and so might be prosecuted, not for not carrying the
license, but for breaking the law that you lost the exemption for.

As state laws can vary I can't comment on that as the state I live in does
not seem to have any "radio or scanner laws" that need proof of ham
licenses.

The FCC only requires your name to be in the data base. That means for new
hams they can operate as soon as they find their call in the database on the
internet, or someone finds it for them. No paper license is required. This
may only take a few days from the time the test is taken depending on how
fast the results of the test is sent to the FCC.

"a1mixer" wrote in message
...
Very dumb and stupid move.

When you get pulled over for something, you respond "no sir" and "yes
sir"...
Roll your window down one inch and keep your mouth shut.

Anyone who drives a Hummer for their "Daily Driver" who is not a member of
the Armed Forces is an arrogant ass who deserves whatever tickets they may
get. Scan that dude......

Having been born and raised in Minnesota, I can tell you that it is one of the
most restrictive states in the country. All kinds of extra red tape,
regulations, and restrictions apply here.

This and the sky-high levels of taxation are why I moved myself and my business
across the border to South Dakota several years ago.

Bill wrote:
Also bring your new amateur radio license. Even if the date of issue is

The FCC isn't issuing any new amateutrtadio licenses.

They said it's because of a computer error at the FCC.

so I guess there goes my attempt to get aan amateur radio license which I as
going to try to to do sometime.

Their matrix has a glitch once in a while, they have recovered from this
one. They will never stop issuing ham licenses (hopefully).

WC

"Stereophile22" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:
Also bring your new amateur radio license. Even if the date of issue
is

The FCC isn't issuing any new amateutrtadio licenses.

They said it's because of a computer error at the FCC.

so I guess there goes my attempt to get aan amateur radio license which I
as
going to try to to do sometime.