Broadcast FM SCA subcarriers
 

Anybody know where I can find a list of services currently being broadcast
on FM stations' subcarriers?

Also, can anybody refer me to information on which FM stations are used to
broadcast the MSN Smart Watch signals?

Thanks,

George

"George" wrote in message
om...
Anybody know where I can find a list of services currently being broadcast
on FM stations' subcarriers?

http://members.aol.com/fmatlas/home.html

How can these SCA transmissions be decoded? Are there any sound card-based
software techniques, or does it always require hardware?

- Doug


"George" wrote in message
om...
Anybody know where I can find a list of services currently being broadcast
on FM stations' subcarriers?

Also, can anybody refer me to information on which FM stations are used to
broadcast the MSN Smart Watch signals?

Thanks,

George

"DougSlug" wrote in message
...
How can these SCA transmissions be decoded? Are there any sound
card-based software techniques, or does it always require hardware?

Cannot be done with sound card or software. These are subcarrier s in the
FM signal. One has to tap the receiver after the demodulator and send
through a separate LF FM receiver ("adapters"_. Note that there are
legalities to consider in the US.

The site mentioned
http://members.aol.com/fmatlas/home.html
sells modifired FM radios and adapters.

Is that true even for non-commercial armchair listening at home?


--
Email replies to:
"Never anonymous Bud" wrote in message
...
Trying to steal the thunder from Arnold, "DougSlug"
on Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:55:44 -0500 spoke:

How can these SCA transmissions be decoded?

Under the changes to the law in recent years,
it's illegal to monitor SCA transmissions
without permission.






--

The truth is out there,

but it's not interesting enough for most people.

"George W" wrote in message
m...
Is that true even for non-commercial armchair listening at home?


I'm pretty sure the law does not say "illegal, except for armchair listening
at home" so the answer would be yes.

Nana

I bought a SCA radio AM FM radio with the upper and lower SCA setting for
cheap on Yahoo auctions about a month ago brand new in box here is a link.
I do not have anything to do with the guy just thought it was a good deal.
the radio is a cheap radio. It has good audio and great sensitivity.
for $30 well worth it.
Doug

http://csearch.auctions.shopping.yah...celasia&acc=us



"Never anonymous Bud" wrote in message
...
Trying to steal the thunder from Arnold, "George W"
on Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:20:33 GMT spoke:

Is that true even for non-commercial armchair listening at home?

Yes. Stupid law, unenforceable, but still a law.





--

The truth is out there,

but it's not interesting enough for most people.

The following is taken from the manual for the Ramsey Electronics SCA
decoder kit, part number SCA1C:

"*A note concerning commercial use*
Although you may listen to these SCA broadcasts in you own home, any
commercial usage, such as restaurant, bar, store or even at parties is
considered theft of service and the owner of the copyrighted SCA service
is entitled to collect payment. So, be cool, OK?"

I don't know how accurately this reflects the law, but it suggests that
"armchair listening at home" may not be illegal. Does anybody know where to
find the actual text of the law?

- Doug


"nana" wrote in message
...

"George W" wrote in message
m...
Is that true even for non-commercial armchair listening at home?


I'm pretty sure the law does not say "illegal, except for armchair
listening at home" so the answer would be yes.

Nana

I am in the Trenton area, not far from you, Doug...what SCA programming, if
any, have you discovered at your location with this radio?
- Doug


"r392" wrote in message
news:hz2Kd.11237$Dz2.457@trndny09...
I bought a SCA radio AM FM radio with the upper and lower SCA setting for
cheap on Yahoo auctions about a month ago brand new in box here is a link.
I do not have anything to do with the guy just thought it was a good deal.
the radio is a cheap radio. It has good audio and great sensitivity.
for $30 well worth it.
Doug

United States Code TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 119 - WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS
INTERCEPTION AND INTERCEPTION OF ORAL COMMUNICATIONS

(16) ''readily accessible to the general public'' means, with
respect to a radio communication, that such communication is not
-
(A) scrambled or encrypted;
(B) transmitted using modulation techniques whose essential
parameters have been withheld from the public with the
intention of preserving the privacy of such communication;
(C) carried on a subcarrier or other signal subsidiary to a
radio transmission;
(D) transmitted over a communication system provided by a
common carrier, unless the communication is a tone only paging
system communication; or
(E) transmitted on frequencies allocated under part 25,
subpart D, E, or F of part 74, or part 94 of the Rules of the
Federal Communications Commission, unless, in the case of a
communication transmitted on a frequency allocated under part
74 that is not exclusively allocated to broadcast auxiliary
services, the communication is a two-way voice communication
by radio;
[CITE: 18 U.S.C 2510]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2510.html

I also live in the area and we get SCA transmissions from NYC and Philly.
Lots... readings from the NYT, WSJ, different languages, and digital. The
best directory is Bruce Elving's guide.

Joe

"DougSlug" wrote in message
...
I am in the Trenton area, not far from you, Doug...what SCA programming,
if
any, have you discovered at your location with this radio?
- Doug


"r392" wrote in message
news:hz2Kd.11237$Dz2.457@trndny09...
I bought a SCA radio AM FM radio with the upper and lower SCA setting for
cheap on Yahoo auctions about a month ago brand new in box here is a
link.
I do not have anything to do with the guy just thought it was a good
deal.
the radio is a cheap radio. It has good audio and great sensitivity.
for $30 well worth it.
Doug

Cannot be done with sound card or software. These are subcarrier s in
the FM signal. One has to tap the receiver after the demodulator and
send through a separate LF FM receiver ("adapters"_. Note that there are
legalities to consider in the US.
----------------------------------------------------

hmm.... new question I'm now wondering about after reading the above.

Does this mean that any audio tape I recorded years ago of regular FM
stations that happened to broadcast subcarriers also have the
subcarrriers recorded on my old tapes????

And if I was able to buy an SCA decoder, I would be able to hear these
old SCA transmissions when listening to my old audio tapes?

or would my old audio tapes only have the regular FM station information
recorded on them, even though the FM station was broadcasting a
subcarrier that I was unaware of at the time?

Note that there are legalities to consider in the US.
---------------------------------------

strange. I've seen SCA decoers at legal ham radio stores just last year
(2004),

and the hams say that hams never do anything illegal. That hams always
obey the law.

Thereforem how can it be illegal if hams never do anything illegal and
sell them to customers at legitimate stores?

wrote in message
...
Cannot be done with sound card or software. These are subcarrier s in
the FM signal. One has to tap the receiver after the demodulator and
send through a separate LF FM receiver ("adapters"_. Note that there are
legalities to consider in the US.
----------------------------------------------------

hmm.... new question I'm now wondering about after reading the above.

Does this mean that any audio tape I recorded years ago of regular FM
stations that happened to broadcast subcarriers also have the
subcarrriers recorded on my old tapes????

No. It is certain that your recordings recorded frequencies of centered at
67 and 92 kHz where SCA is centered. Audio frequencies stop at about 18 kHz
and your recording do also as did the audio output of your receiver.

On the other hand, an old Beta video recorder could be modified and hooked
to the FM demodulator to do what you describe.

or would my old audio tapes only have the regular FM station information
recorded on them, even though the FM station was broadcasting a
subcarrier that I was unaware of at the time?

Yes.

wrote in message
...
Note that there are legalities to consider in the US.
---------------------------------------

strange. I've seen SCA decoders at legal ham radio stores just last year
(2004),

and the hams say that hams never do anything illegal. That hams always
obey the law.

Thereforem how can it be illegal if hams never do anything illegal and
sell them to customers at legitimate stores?

Listening to SCA has nothing to do with ham radio.

And also, selling the equipment is not a legal thing. If is what a person
does with it that involves legalities. You can buy SCA decoders, but you
can legally only listen to what you have permission to do nmaking some
purchases for legal purposes. Yes, there is a reallity gap--some laws are
simply stupid.

Similarly you used to be able to buy scanners that could receive cell
phones. It was illegal though to do that.

You're correct that the audo tapes would only have audio information, but
the SCA information is also in the baseband signal except that it's outside
the audio bandwidth that the tape recorder would have recorded due to AF
filtering in an ordinary FM receiver. As I understand it, the SCA
information is filtered from the demodulated signal before it is sent
through the AF filter normally used for the audio output of the "main"
(primary carrier) baseband signal.


"Bob Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 03:01:21 -0500, Bob Horvath wrote:

Your tapes would only have "audio" information on them, not Radio
Frequencies, which is what contains the SA information.

"DougSlug" wrote in message
...
You're correct that the audo tapes would only have audio information, but
the SCA information is also in the baseband signal except that it's
outside the audio bandwidth that the tape recorder would have recorded due
to AF filtering in an ordinary FM receiver. As I understand it, the SCA
information is filtered from the demodulated signal before it is sent
through the AF filter normally used for the audio output of the "main"
(primary carrier) baseband signal.

It is filtered out by the Stereo demultiplexer before it gets to any audio
stage. To receive SCA, you will need to tap into the receiver after the
product detector (discriminator, pll, whatever) and before it goes to the
demux.

An SCA receiver is effectivily a 67khz receiver plugged into your 100MHz
receiver.

There is a LOT of info out there from people doing the same mod for the
purpose of receiving data/pager transmissions. Search under " discriminator
tap" and see what comes up.


Nana