Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

To make a long story short, I purchased a DE-31 loop for portability
and it came with a 3 conductor mini-jack to "two clips"
(antenna/ground) adapter. The antenna works fine with the minijack /
but not the clips. I tried the clips with my Edek Torus Tuner... the
clips don't seem to work with that either. The clips are making
electrical contact through, though. I tried the clips with two radios
(one radio doesn't have an antenna jack - hence the issue).

Important details:

The DE-31 has a 3 conductor mini-jack and the adapter ends with TWO
clips, one for antenna and one for ground. The radios don't have
"ground" connectors per-se, so I'm not sure the best place to connect
the ground wire and if that's causing an issue.

When I connect either antenna via the minijack, I can tune the antenna
just fine (I hear the "click" around the proper spot and then tune
slowly) and it makes a marked improvement.

When I connect the Torus Tuner via the clip adapter, I can hear the
"click" and fine tune, but it makes very little difference (on the same
frequencies I tested with the minijack). Remember that the Torus Tuner
has a 2 conductor plug and the adapter is 3 conductor - I don't know if
that makes a difference.

When I connect the DE-31 via the clip adapter, I can't hear the "click"
at all. The DE-31 has a pretty long minijacked wire to connect to the
loop. When I use the clip adapter, removing the wire from the loop,
gives the same reception as having the loop attached.

That is, it seems that on the DE-31 at least, when it's connected using
the clip adaptor, it's using the wire as a 'longwire' antenna, but it's
not interacting with the loop at the end of the longwire correctly (and
reception using the wire varies by frequency). Is this an impedence
mismatch? Could this have to do with not connecting the grounding wire?
Any other possibilities How can this be tested (I do have a
multimeter)/ corrected?

This thread has technical data regarding the insides of the DE-31 if it
can be of any help.
I have not moded the unit:
http://www.drmrx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1210

Thanks for any insights!

Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

Hello,

Can you connect both clips ? one to the antenna and one to a "ground" point ?

It does help to have the ground point...

Charly

Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

The question is, what can I use as a ground point? The seller said the
negative battery terminal... Besides being "sloppy" (maybe put a wire
around the battery door), will that do damage? Any other locations to
ground it, for a portable which doesn't have a ground (or antenna)
terminal?

If I don't use headphones, someone mentioned the headphone jack... Is
that ok? I guess I'd have to buy a minijack... which terminal would be
ground? Do I then not connect anything to the other terminal of the
jack?

Interestingly, at around 15 mHz, using the antenna via the clips, does
seem to work (I can tune the antenna and get sensitivity increase - I
don't know if it 100% matches the jack or not - but it's pretty good).

At around 9 mHz, using the antenna via the clips only seems to see the
wire and not the antenna at the end (tuning does nothing).

Does that show an impedence matching issue?

Thanks

Charly wrote:
Hello,

Can you connect both clips ? one to the antenna and one to a "ground" point ?

It does help to have the ground point...

Charly

Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

Is the SW100 antenna jack safe to use with the DE-31 (KA-31) ? The
SW100 powers the antenna which comes with it -- so it outputs voltage
on the antenna jack... When I bought a Torus Tuner (Edek) loop, Ed
especially modified it (and future units) to work with the SW100, after
I requested it.

I actually tried it with the SW100 antenna jack and then reminded
myself that I probably shouldn't. I'm now testing it on the SW100 rod
antenna and the DE1105 rod antenna.
The DE1105 does have an S meter (I don't know what units they use).

My goal is to get the DE1105 with DE-31 to work and then sell my SW100
and Torus Tuner loop. The SW100 and Torus Tuner are both great... but
nowadays, I use shortwave mostly for travel and the SW100 is too
precious and the Torus Tuner is too big to bring along.

Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

The Torus Tuner loop is 16.5" shortwave, D.C. blocked (so it's ok for
SW100 or other radios which output voltage on the antenna jack), R/C
amp (seperate, optionally connected box), all with 3.5mm jacks. The
antenna tunes slightly above 19 mHz (Ed tested my antenna and told me
in an email before shipping it out - I don't tune to anything above 18
mHz).

I'm not selling the antenna at this second, until I do more testing
with the new antenna/radio and different connection methods. I may end
up placing the antenna and SW100 on ebay. Probably another few weeks.

RHF wrote:


DANR,

Which Torus Tuner Loop Do You Have ?

Shortwave or AM/MW ?

Size / Inchs Diameter ?

Price ?

i want to know ~ RHF
.
.
. .

Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

I once read an article in a Shortwave magazine about ten something years
ago,all of those jacks are not alike.The article was about how to modify
certain kinds of jacks.Some jacks work two way,some jacks work three
way.
Arra,if you like to google, Radio jacks
cuhulin

Loop Antennas / minijack works-clips don't / impedence??
 

RHF- I see that you recommended this for antenna coupling, back in
2003...

Would this be useful for connecting to the loop? Someone in another
group mentioned wrapping insulated wire around the antenna itself about
10 or so times... Is the PVC piping you mention just for convenience--
or is the extra isolation needed? What diameter PVC pipe? (Since the
antenna has a tuner, is there a point to doing the tuned version you
mentioned?)

* HOME MADE: Tune-A-Stick Whip Coupler for External Shortwave
Antenna.


1. One Piece of PVC Pipe about 8" to 12" long.


2. Wrap about 50 to 100 turns of 18 to 24 AWG Insulated Wire
uniformally around the PVC Pipe.


3. Tape the Coil End Windings to secure them.


4. Strip away one inch of wire insulation to allow for ground and
external antenna connections.


5. Position the radio's Whip Antenna to the Vertical (Up-Right) Do not
Extend the Whip Antenna.


6. Place the The PVC Pipe over the Whip Antenna.


7. Connect the Ground to the bottom coil end wire and External SW
Antenna to the top coil end wires.


This is the end of the construction of the simple version of the
Tune-A-Stick Whip Coupler.

Tune-A-Stick -and- Portable Wire Antenna (PWA) for Whip Antenna Couplers to External Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas
 

Thanks.

I was asking if the tubing made a difference, so that I could TEST
using insulated wire directly on the antenna... and then get some
tubing once I see that the wrapping works and how many wraps are
needed.

1 - If you Wrap the Insulated Wire Directly on-to the
Whip Antenna : Then you have a Fixed {Permenant}
Installation on the one Radio.

Tune-A-Stick -and- Portable Wire Antenna (PWA) for Whip Antenna Couplers to External Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas
 

wrote:
Thanks.

I was asking if the tubing made a difference, so that I could TEST
using insulated wire directly on the antenna... and then get some
tubing once I see that the wrapping works and how many wraps are
needed.

1 - If you Wrap the Insulated Wire Directly on-to the
Whip Antenna : Then you have a Fixed {Permenant}
Installation on the one Radio.

DANR - Yes - The Tubing will make a difference.

Since the Insulated Wire will be closer to the Metal
of the Whip Antenna and therefore coupling to it more
effectively. You will find that few turns are required
with the Direct-Wrap. More Turns when the Tubing is
used 'in-between' the Wire and the Whip Antenna.

TIP # 1 - Instead of Tubing for your first attempt. Try a
few wraps of Paper taped around the Whip Antenna as
a Thin Core to make the Coupling Coil more easier to
Put-On or Take-Off as needed.

TIP # 2 - With the Tubing the Coil Assembly can be
positioned {move} In-and-Out on the Whip Antenna
so that the Coupling Effect between the Whip and
Coil can be varried {adjusted} for the best reception.

hope this helps - iane ~ RHF

Tune-A-Stick -and- Portable Wire Antenna (PWA) for Whip Antenna Couplers to External Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas
 

Well, I went from 10 wraps, to about 40 wraps (of the same 22 gauge
insulated wire), directly around the antenna. I extended the bottom
(thick) part of the antenna, just enough to fit the wraps (-the wraps
are NOT spaced out). I then attached antenna and ground wires of the
loop to the ends of the wire wrapped around the antenna.

Well, off of the rod by itself, I can hear CHU Canada, but it's below 1
on the S-Meter. Using the inductive connection (40 wraps), it gives a
signal of 4 -- but it's VERY noisy.
(I tried reversing the antenna/ground to no avail).

With the antenna clip directly to the top (thin part) of the rod
antenna (rest of rod not extended), I get signal of 6 but very noisy.
When I connect the ground clip to the battery, it get's MUCH quieter
(than without ground, or with inductive connection) and it stays at a
signal of 6. Direct connection of the antenna to a radio with an
antenna jack is still much better!
(I did a test with the clips to that radio - in order to make sure it's
an antenna connection issue).

So, as of now, the inductive connection isn't helping. Suggestions or
recommendations?

I emailed Universal about the AA-1, to ask if it's ok to use with
active antennas (it's also $60...which is a bit much, considering).

Thanks

RHF wrote:
wrote:
Thanks.

I was asking if the tubing made a difference, so that I could TEST
using insulated wire directly on the antenna... and then get some
tubing once I see that the wrapping works and how many wraps are
needed.

1 - If you Wrap the Insulated Wire Directly on-to the
Whip Antenna : Then you have a Fixed {Permenant}
Installation on the one Radio.

DANR - Yes - The Tubing will make a difference.

Since the Insulated Wire will be closer to the Metal
of the Whip Antenna and therefore coupling to it more
effectively. You will find that few turns are required
with the Direct-Wrap. More Turns when the Tubing is
used 'in-between' the Wire and the Whip Antenna.

TIP # 1 - Instead of Tubing for your first attempt. Try a
few wraps of Paper taped around the Whip Antenna as
a Thin Core to make the Coupling Coil more easier to
Put-On or Take-Off as needed.

TIP # 2 - With the Tubing the Coil Assembly can be
positioned {move} In-and-Out on the Whip Antenna
so that the Coupling Effect between the Whip and
Coil can be varried {adjusted} for the best reception.

hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
.
.
. .

Tune-A-Stick -and- Portable Wire Antenna (PWA) for Whip Antenna Couplers to External Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas
 

wrote:
Well, I went from 10 wraps, to about 40 wraps (of the same 22 gauge
insulated wire), directly around the antenna. I extended the bottom
(thick) part of the antenna, just enough to fit the wraps (-the wraps
are NOT spaced out). I then attached antenna and ground wires of the
loop to the ends of the wire wrapped around the antenna.

Well, off of the rod by itself, I can hear CHU Canada, but it's below 1
on the S-Meter. Using the inductive connection (40 wraps), it gives a
signal of 4 -- but it's VERY noisy.
(I tried reversing the antenna/ground to no avail).

With the antenna clip directly to the top (thin part) of the rod
antenna (rest of rod not extended), I get signal of 6 but very noisy.
When I connect the ground clip to the battery, it get's MUCH quieter
(than without ground, or with inductive connection) and it stays at a
signal of 6. Direct connection of the antenna to a radio with an
antenna jack is still much better!
(I did a test with the clips to that radio - in order to make sure it's
an antenna connection issue).

So, as of now, the inductive connection isn't helping. Suggestions or
recommendations?

I emailed Universal about the AA-1, to ask if it's ok to use with
active antennas (it's also $60...which is a bit much, considering).

Thanks

RHF wrote:
wrote:
Thanks.

I was asking if the tubing made a difference, so that I could TEST
using insulated wire directly on the antenna... and then get some
tubing once I see that the wrapping works and how many wraps are
needed.

1 - If you Wrap the Insulated Wire Directly on-to the
Whip Antenna : Then you have a Fixed {Permenant}
Installation on the one Radio.

DANR - Yes - The Tubing will make a difference.

Since the Insulated Wire will be closer to the Metal
of the Whip Antenna and therefore coupling to it more
effectively. You will find that few turns are required
with the Direct-Wrap. More Turns when the Tubing is
used 'in-between' the Wire and the Whip Antenna.

TIP # 1 - Instead of Tubing for your first attempt. Try a
few wraps of Paper taped around the Whip Antenna as
a Thin Core to make the Coupling Coil more easier to
Put-On or Take-Off as needed.

TIP # 2 - With the Tubing the Coil Assembly can be
positioned {move} In-and-Out on the Whip Antenna
so that the Coupling Effect between the Whip and
Coil can be varried {adjusted} for the best reception.

hope this helps - iane ~ RHF
.
.
. .

DANR,

Seems like you have tried all the various combinations
and described your results fairly well.

Remember - Not everything words for everyboby.

Choose the one that works for you the best and stick with it.
- - - Until you try something better :o)

If increased 'noise' coming from the simple straight wire
Antenna is an issue. Then try a Horizontal [Flat] Loop
Antenna with either TV Twin Lead or Coax Cable as a
feed-in-line from the Antenna to the Radio.

READ - The Shortwave Listener's (SWL) "Random"
Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...73213a11be0b83


READ - The In-the-Attic Horizontal [Flat] Loop Antenna
- - - Just may be the better choice to fill that . . .
empty space overhead {not in your head :o}.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...f4e10e7df8249c

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...78920c10cb5cc9


Note - A simple Loop Antenna {Square / Triangle / Round}
with a 10 - 15 Foot Side or Diameter is really about a
40'-60' / 30'-45' / 31'-47' long piece of Wire; and that
is enough Wire-in-the-Air for most 'portable' AM/FM
Shortwave Radios.

something to think about - iane ~ RHF

Tune-A-Stick -and- Portable Wire Antenna (PWA) for Whip Antenna Couplers to External Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas
 

In article . com,
wrote:

RHF wrote:
wrote:
Thanks.

I was asking if the tubing made a difference, so that I could
TEST using insulated wire directly on the antenna... and then get
some tubing once I see that the wrapping works and how many wraps
are needed.

1 - If you Wrap the Insulated Wire Directly on-to the Whip
Antenna : Then you have a Fixed {Permenant} Installation on the
one Radio.

DANR - Yes - The Tubing will make a difference.

Since the Insulated Wire will be closer to the Metal of the Whip
Antenna and therefore coupling to it more effectively. You will
find that few turns are required with the Direct-Wrap. More Turns
when the Tubing is used 'in-between' the Wire and the Whip Antenna.

TIP # 1 - Instead of Tubing for your first attempt. Try a few wraps
of Paper taped around the Whip Antenna as a Thin Core to make the
Coupling Coil more easier to Put-On or Take-Off as needed.

TIP # 2 - With the Tubing the Coil Assembly can be positioned
{move} In-and-Out on the Whip Antenna so that the Coupling Effect
between the Whip and Coil can be varried {adjusted} for the best
reception.

Well, I went from 10 wraps, to about 40 wraps (of the same 22 gauge
insulated wire), directly around the antenna. I extended the bottom
(thick) part of the antenna, just enough to fit the wraps (-the wraps
are NOT spaced out). I then attached antenna and ground wires of the
loop to the ends of the wire wrapped around the antenna.

Well, off of the rod by itself, I can hear CHU Canada, but it's below
1 on the S-Meter. Using the inductive connection (40 wraps), it gives
a signal of 4 -- but it's VERY noisy. (I tried reversing the
antenna/ground to no avail).

With the antenna clip directly to the top (thin part) of the rod
antenna (rest of rod not extended), I get signal of 6 but very noisy.
When I connect the ground clip to the battery, it get's MUCH quieter
(than without ground, or with inductive connection) and it stays at a
signal of 6. Direct connection of the antenna to a radio with an
antenna jack is still much better! (I did a test with the clips to
that radio - in order to make sure it's an antenna connection issue).

So, as of now, the inductive connection isn't helping. Suggestions or
recommendations?

I emailed Universal about the AA-1, to ask if it's ok to use with
active antennas (it's also $60...which is a bit much, considering).

The radio input is a differential mode input. This means it see a signal
relative to its internal ground. Most local noise is common mode so an
antenna setup that picks it up and presents it to the radio input causes
the radio to respond to it without a ground connection. Connecting an
antenna to just the antenna terminal causes any received station by the
antenna to look the same as any local noise it also picks up since both
are presented to the radio as a signal to ground. Connecting an antenna
to the radio antenna terminal and ground causes the received station to
appear differentially across the radio input so the radio responds to it
and the common mode locally picked up noise is the same on the antenna
and ground terminal so it is rejected as a common mode signal.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Tune-A-Stick -and- Portable Wire Antenna (PWA) for Whip Antenna Couplers to External Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas
 

Telamon wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

RHF wrote:
wrote:
Thanks.

I was asking if the tubing made a difference, so that I could
TEST using insulated wire directly on the antenna... and then get
some tubing once I see that the wrapping works and how many wraps
are needed.

1 - If you Wrap the Insulated Wire Directly on-to the Whip
Antenna : Then you have a Fixed {Permenant} Installation on the
one Radio.

DANR - Yes - The Tubing will make a difference.

Since the Insulated Wire will be closer to the Metal of the Whip
Antenna and therefore coupling to it more effectively. You will
find that few turns are required with the Direct-Wrap. More Turns
when the Tubing is used 'in-between' the Wire and the Whip Antenna.

TIP # 1 - Instead of Tubing for your first attempt. Try a few wraps
of Paper taped around the Whip Antenna as a Thin Core to make the
Coupling Coil more easier to Put-On or Take-Off as needed.

TIP # 2 - With the Tubing the Coil Assembly can be positioned
{move} In-and-Out on the Whip Antenna so that the Coupling Effect
between the Whip and Coil can be varried {adjusted} for the best
reception.

Well, I went from 10 wraps, to about 40 wraps (of the same 22 gauge
insulated wire), directly around the antenna. I extended the bottom
(thick) part of the antenna, just enough to fit the wraps (-the wraps
are NOT spaced out). I then attached antenna and ground wires of the
loop to the ends of the wire wrapped around the antenna.

Well, off of the rod by itself, I can hear CHU Canada, but it's below
1 on the S-Meter. Using the inductive connection (40 wraps), it gives
a signal of 4 -- but it's VERY noisy. (I tried reversing the
antenna/ground to no avail).

With the antenna clip directly to the top (thin part) of the rod
antenna (rest of rod not extended), I get signal of 6 but very noisy.
When I connect the ground clip to the battery, it get's MUCH quieter
(than without ground, or with inductive connection) and it stays at a
signal of 6. Direct connection of the antenna to a radio with an
antenna jack is still much better! (I did a test with the clips to
that radio - in order to make sure it's an antenna connection issue).

So, as of now, the inductive connection isn't helping. Suggestions or
recommendations?

I emailed Universal about the AA-1, to ask if it's ok to use with
active antennas (it's also $60...which is a bit much, considering).


- The radio input is a differential mode input. This means
- it see a signal relative to its internal ground.

- Most local noise is common mode so an antenna setup
- that picks it up and presents it to the radio input causes
- the radio to respond to it without a ground connection.

- Connecting an antenna to just the antenna terminal causes
- any received station by the antenna to look the same as any
- local noise it also picks up since both are presented to the
- radio as a signal to ground.

- Connecting an antenna to the radio antenna terminal and
- ground causes the received station to appear differentially
- across the radio input so the radio responds to it and the
- common mode locally picked up noise is the same on the
- antenna and ground terminal so it is rejected as a common
- mode signal.
-
- --
- Telamon
Ventura, California

El Telo Mundo - Translation Please ! ~ RHF

Is simply connecting an Antenna to the Radio's Whip
Antenna or Antenna Terminal :
- - - Good -or- Band for Reception ?

Is simply connecting a Ground to the Radio :
- - - Good -or- Band for Reception ?

Will doing both make Radio Listening Beter : Yes -or- No ?

Tune-A-Stick -and- Portable Wire Antenna (PWA) for Whip Antenna Couplers to External Shortwave Listener (SWL) Antennas
 

In article .com,
"RHF" wrote:

Telamon wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

RHF wrote:
wrote:
Thanks.

I was asking if the tubing made a difference, so that I could
TEST using insulated wire directly on the antenna... and then get
some tubing once I see that the wrapping works and how many wraps
are needed.

1 - If you Wrap the Insulated Wire Directly on-to the Whip
Antenna : Then you have a Fixed {Permenant} Installation on the
one Radio.

DANR - Yes - The Tubing will make a difference.

Since the Insulated Wire will be closer to the Metal of the Whip
Antenna and therefore coupling to it more effectively. You will
find that few turns are required with the Direct-Wrap. More Turns
when the Tubing is used 'in-between' the Wire and the Whip Antenna.

TIP # 1 - Instead of Tubing for your first attempt. Try a few wraps
of Paper taped around the Whip Antenna as a Thin Core to make the
Coupling Coil more easier to Put-On or Take-Off as needed.

TIP # 2 - With the Tubing the Coil Assembly can be positioned
{move} In-and-Out on the Whip Antenna so that the Coupling Effect
between the Whip and Coil can be varried {adjusted} for the best
reception.

Well, I went from 10 wraps, to about 40 wraps (of the same 22 gauge
insulated wire), directly around the antenna. I extended the bottom
(thick) part of the antenna, just enough to fit the wraps (-the wraps
are NOT spaced out). I then attached antenna and ground wires of the
loop to the ends of the wire wrapped around the antenna.

Well, off of the rod by itself, I can hear CHU Canada, but it's below
1 on the S-Meter. Using the inductive connection (40 wraps), it gives
a signal of 4 -- but it's VERY noisy. (I tried reversing the
antenna/ground to no avail).

With the antenna clip directly to the top (thin part) of the rod
antenna (rest of rod not extended), I get signal of 6 but very noisy.
When I connect the ground clip to the battery, it get's MUCH quieter
(than without ground, or with inductive connection) and it stays at a
signal of 6. Direct connection of the antenna to a radio with an
antenna jack is still much better! (I did a test with the clips to
that radio - in order to make sure it's an antenna connection issue).

So, as of now, the inductive connection isn't helping. Suggestions or
recommendations?

I emailed Universal about the AA-1, to ask if it's ok to use with
active antennas (it's also $60...which is a bit much, considering).


- The radio input is a differential mode input. This means
- it see a signal relative to its internal ground.

- Most local noise is common mode so an antenna setup
- that picks it up and presents it to the radio input causes
- the radio to respond to it without a ground connection.

- Connecting an antenna to just the antenna terminal causes
- any received station by the antenna to look the same as any
- local noise it also picks up since both are presented to the
- radio as a signal to ground.

- Connecting an antenna to the radio antenna terminal and
- ground causes the received station to appear differentially
- across the radio input so the radio responds to it and the
- common mode locally picked up noise is the same on the
- antenna and ground terminal so it is rejected as a common
- mode signal.
-
- --
- Telamon
Ventura, California

El Telo Mundo - Translation Please ! ~ RHF

Is simply connecting an Antenna to the Radio's Whip
Antenna or Antenna Terminal :
- - - Good -or- Band for Reception ?

Is simply connecting a Ground to the Radio :
- - - Good -or- Band for Reception ?

Will doing both make Radio Listening Beter : Yes -or- No ?

You are confused by the terms differential and common mode?

Common mode means that you have the same voltage or signal on both
antenna and ground. Imagine a sine wave time varying voltage in phase
on the antenna and ground lead. Even though it is varying since it is
the same signal on both terminals it will not induce a current through
the radio input because there is no potential difference between the
terminals but if the signal was only on one terminal (antenna) then
there would be a potential difference and current will flow through the
radio input.

Consider a dipole antenna with one leg connected to the antenna and the
other leg connected to the ground terminal. A local noise field will
cause the same time varying voltage to be generated by both legs of the
dipole and then the radio terminals so that the radio does not respond
to it. However, a distant station will cause a time varying voltage 180
degrees out of phase to be generated and when that time varying
potential difference appears at the radio terminals that will cause a
current to flow from the antenna terminal to ground terminal.

The result of using a balanced antenna helps the radio reject local
noise while responding to the distant radio signal in this way. If we
were discussing amplifiers we would call it common mode rejection.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California