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Same call sign in different areas?
Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an
Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz in San Francisco. KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. By the way, KCBS in San Francisco is one of several stations (of which the best known is now co-owned KDKA) which claims to be the first broadcasting station in the U.S. Their claim has to do with Doc Herrold's arc broadcasting experiments in San Jose in the years before World War I. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Same call sign in different areas?
Tester wrote:
Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz in San Francisco. KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. No. For example, KSAS-FM on 103.3 in the Boise, Idaho area while KSAS-TV is in Wichita, Kansas. Or KTRS(AM) in St. Louis while KTRS-FM is in Casper, Wyoming. I'm sure there are others. I do think KCBS was the first, when the FCC decided to allow a given company to reuse "base calls" on co-owned stations in different services in different areas. Later, the rules were amended to allow reuse by *any* station (even those not commonly-owned) provided they had the consent of whoever held the calls first. Today, I'm not sure they even need consent - it may just be a matter of "try it if you think you won't get sued"... -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
Same call sign in different areas?
KDKA claims (and is able to back up that claim) that they were the
first COMMERCIAL broadcast stations. Except that KDKA wasn't selling any commercials back in 1920. (there is some evidence WJZ - now WABC - was the first station to sell airtime to an outside advertiser, in 1926. Before then, the economic justification for a broadcasting station was to advertise the licensee's own products/services.) Arguably KDKA was the first station to take out a license for the specific purpose of broadcasting. (Doc Jerrold's KQW (now KCBS) made its first broadcast at a time when no licenses were required at all. Wisconsin's 9XM (now WHA) was licensed as an experimental station. Both stations did eventaully take out broadcasting licenses, but not until after KDKA and other stations had already done so.) There is evidence that KDKA's well-publicized first broadcast (of returns of the 1920 election) was not made under the KDKA license, since that license was not issued in time. KDKA already had an experimental license and likely used that license to make the election broadcast. Really, who was first depends on definitions. See http://earlyradiohistory.us/sec024.htm for more information. -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
Same call sign in different areas?
Doug Smith W9WI ) writes:
KDKA claims (and is able to back up that claim) that they were the first COMMERCIAL broadcast stations. Except that KDKA wasn't selling any commercials back in 1920. (there is some evidence WJZ - now WABC - was the first station to sell airtime to an outside advertiser, in 1926. Before then, the economic justification for a broadcasting station was to advertise the licensee's own products/services.) But to promote the owner's business is still commercial. That was the early model. All kinds of radio stations owned by some other business went on the air, and it was seen as advertising for the business. It's only later that a standalone model came about, where radio stations were owned by third parties and simply sold advertising space in order to support the station (and thus the business). Michael |
Same call sign in different areas?
In article ,
Tester wrote: Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz in San Francisco. KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. As I understand it, the actual callsigns are KCBS-AM, KCBS-TV, KCBS-FM. Three distinct calls. That's how calls show up in the FCC liscence database. (Perhaps, without the '-'). Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) |
Same call sign in different areas?
"Tester" wrote in message g... Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. These are not the same call signs. The TV and FM endings are integral parts of the callsign According to the way the FCC looks at callsigns these are three separate call signs. KCBS is a four letter call sign KCBSFM is a six letter callsign which happens to end in FM KCBSTV is a six letter callsign which happens to end in TV. WLW and WLWT, or WWV and WWVA, or WBT and WBTV are not the same callsigns, even though each set contains the same first three letters and each station is owned by a different owner. |
Same call sign in different areas?
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "Dan" wrote in message ... "Tester" wrote in message g... Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. These are not the same call signs. The TV and FM endings are integral parts of the callsign According to the way the FCC looks at callsigns these are three separate call signs. KCBS is a four letter call sign KCBSFM is a six letter callsign which happens to end in FM KCBSTV is a six letter callsign which happens to end in TV. Bzzt! Sorry, but thanks for playing our game. The correct answer is that there are no 6 letter calls in the US. This is NOT correct. FCC Rules and Regulations specifically authorize 6 call signs for broadcasting Please refer to FCC Rules and Regulations section 2.302 (callsigns)(page 632). The Regulations state in part: "Broadcasting (standard)......... 4 letters \3\ (plus location of station). KAAA through KZZZ. WAAA through WZZZ. Broadcasting (FM)............... 4 letters (plus location of station).. KAAA through KZZZ. WAAA through WZZZ. Broadcasting with suffix ``FM''. 6 letters \3\ (plus location of station). KAAA-FM through KZZZ--FM. WAAA-FM through WZZZ-FM. Broadcasting (television)....... 4 letters (plus location of station).. KAAA through KZZZ. WAAA through WZZZ. Broadcasting with suffix ``TV''. 6 letters \3\ (plus location of station) KAAA-TV through KZZZ-TV. WAAA-TV through WZZ-TV. When the stations with the KCBS call legally identify themselves, it is done as "KCBS [COL]" Legal station ID's do not have the AM/FM/TV suffix, again this is incorect, please refer to FCC Regulation 2.302 nor even the frequency/channel of operation. This is correct. Frequency is not required in a valid staion ID, but location is Stations KBPS (AM & FM) are co-located, but not co-owned (one is owned by the KBPS Foundation, the other by Benson Polytechnic High School). Each ID's only as "KBPS, Portland" You'll receive a copy of our home game. |
Same call sign in different areas?
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "Dan" wrote in message ... "Tester" wrote in message g... Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. These are not the same call signs. The TV and FM endings are integral parts of the callsign According to the way the FCC looks at callsigns these are three separate call signs. KCBS is a four letter call sign KCBSFM is a six letter callsign which happens to end in FM KCBSTV is a six letter callsign which happens to end in TV. Bzzt! Sorry, but thanks for playing our game. The correct answer is that there are no 6 letter calls in the US. When the stations with the KCBS call legally identify themselves, it is done as "KCBS [COL]" Legal station ID's do not have the AM/FM/TV suffix, nor even the frequency/channel of operation. Stations KBPS (AM & FM) are co-located, but not co-owned (one is owned by the KBPS Foundation, the other by Benson Polytechnic High School). Each ID's only as "KBPS, Portland" There is only one station "KBPS". It is an AM station on 1450KHz. It is owned by School District #1 of Multnomah County, Oregon. The FM station is on 89.9MHZ its' call sign is "KBPS-FM". If the station owned by the Foundation is identifying itself only as "KBPS", they are not correctly identifying their station. You may check the accuracy of this data by going to the FCC's General Menu Reports at: HTTP://svartifass2.fcc.gov/reports/index.cfm Click on callsigns and enter KBPS or KBPS-FM SCHOOL DISTRICT #1, MULTNOMAH COUNTY, OR SCHOOL DISTRICT #1, MULTNOMAH COUNTY, OR You'll receive a copy of our home game. |
Same call sign in different areas?
I sort of know a book editor lady at Oregon Magazine.Her Uncle is from
Vicksburg,Mississippi www.oregonmag.com Check out Peg's Bottom at Oregon Magazine. FLOL,,, Frikkin Laff Out Loud. cuhulin |
Same call sign in different areas?
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Same call sign in different areas?
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "Dan" wrote in message ... "Tester" wrote in message g... Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. These are not the same call signs. The TV and FM endings are integral parts of the callsign According to the way the FCC looks at callsigns these are three separate call signs. KCBS is a four letter call sign KCBSFM is a six letter callsign which happens to end in FM KCBSTV is a six letter callsign which happens to end in TV. Bzzt! Sorry, but thanks for playing our game. The correct answer is that there are no 6 letter calls in the US. When the stations with the KCBS call legally identify themselves, it is done as "KCBS [COL]" Legal station ID's do not have the AM/FM/TV suffix, nor even the frequency/channel of operation. That is 100% incorrect. If there are an AM, and FM and a TV with the same first 4 letters of the calls, the license of the FM says "WXXX-FM" and the TV is "WXXX-TV." The legal ID is not legal if "FM" or "TV" are not read (or visualed in TV) are not part of the ID. In fact, many FMs that used to share calls with an AM that later changed to other calls are still "WXXX-FM" even if there is no AM with the same calls. Stations KBPS (AM & FM) are co-located, but not co-owned (one is owned by the KBPS Foundation, the other by Benson Polytechnic High School). Each ID's only as "KBPS, Portland" Then they are doing an illegal ID, as the license of the FM, baring a unique FCC error, is KBPS-FM. The FCC database shows "KBPS-FM" to be the correct calls, too. I looked for a station I know never had an AM, and it shows as "KLVE" alone, without the "-FM" suffix. If it is on the license, it must be said. And per 75.1150, an ID may include the channel number between the calls and the city of license, so it is, if done this way, part of the legal ID: |
Same call sign in different areas?
David Eduardo wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message The correct answer is that there are no 6 letter calls in the US. When the stations with the KCBS call legally identify themselves, it is done as "KCBS [COL]" Legal station ID's do not have the AM/FM/TV suffix, nor even the frequency/channel of operation. That is 100% incorrect. If there are an AM, and FM and a TV with the same first 4 letters of the calls, the license of the FM says "WXXX-FM" and the TV is "WXXX-TV." The legal ID is not legal if "FM" or "TV" are not read (or visualed in TV) are not part of the ID. In fact, many FMs that used to share calls with an AM that later changed to other calls are still "WXXX-FM" even if there is no AM with the same calls. It should be noted that the FCC allows a station to call itself anything it wants, as long as it uses the right call letters at the top of the hour. Channel 2 can call itself "KCBS-TV", "KCBS", "CBS 2", "Channel 2", or even "KNXT"* as long as it announces "KCBS-TV, Los Angeles" in their hourly ID. On a TV station, that ID may be visual or aural -- it doesn't have to be both -- so they could verbally announce "KCBS, Los Angeles" as long as it said "KCBS-TV Los Angeles" on the ID slide. -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com * I would imagine they might get in trouble with the FCC and almost certainly would get in trouble in the civil courts if they chose to use the call letters of some other station in the same market. If Channel 2 in LA were to call itself "KNBC" - the call letters of channel 4 - I don't think they'd get away with it! |
Same call sign in different areas?
Mark Zenier wrote:
In article , Tester wrote: Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz in San Francisco. KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. As I understand it, the actual callsigns are KCBS-AM, KCBS-TV, KCBS-FM. Three distinct calls. That's how calls show up in the FCC liscence database. (Perhaps, without the '-'). That's pretty much right. There is no -AM suffix - AM stations never have a suffix. FM or TV stations *may* not have -FM or -TV suffixes, if they aren't necessary to avoid conflicts. For example, LA's channel 4 is KNBC - not KNBC-TV - because there is no KNBC(AM) or KNBC(FM). However, a station might have a suffix even if it doesn't need it... For example, channel 11 in Green Bay, which is WLUK-TV even though there is no WLUK (AM) or WLUK (FM). There is no KQED(AM), so channel 9 in San Francisco can be KQED, not KQED-TV. There is however a KQED radio, on FM, so to avoid conflict with the TV station (that was there first) it's KQED-FM. Confused yet?grin -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
Same call sign in different areas?
"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message ... David Eduardo wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message The correct answer is that there are no 6 letter calls in the US. When the stations with the KCBS call legally identify themselves, it is done as "KCBS [COL]" Legal station ID's do not have the AM/FM/TV suffix, nor even the frequency/channel of operation. That is 100% incorrect. If there are an AM, and FM and a TV with the same first 4 letters of the calls, the license of the FM says "WXXX-FM" and the TV is "WXXX-TV." The legal ID is not legal if "FM" or "TV" are not read (or visualed in TV) are not part of the ID. In fact, many FMs that used to share calls with an AM that later changed to other calls are still "WXXX-FM" even if there is no AM with the same calls. It should be noted that the FCC allows a station to call itself anything it wants, as long as it uses the right call letters at the top of the hour. Channel 2 can call itself "KCBS-TV", "KCBS", "CBS 2", "Channel 2", or even "KNXT"* as long as it announces "KCBS-TV, Los Angeles" in their hourly ID. On a TV station, that ID may be visual or aural -- it doesn't have to be both -- so they could verbally announce "KCBS, Los Angeles" as long as it said "KCBS-TV Los Angeles" on the ID slide. Most interesting is when stations, like several Clear Channel AMs in FL that call themselves WFLA while those calls are only on the Tampa station they own. |
Same call sign in different areas?
AM as far as AM radio is concerned (but not really) is short for
Amplitude Modulated.And I did not cheat and look it up first.I don't even cheat on my wife because I was always to chicken to get hitched. UT Ohhhhhh,,,,, here is that frikkin Shelock Holmes again. cuhulin |
Same call sign in different areas?
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:19:25 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote: Most interesting is when stations, like several Clear Channel AMs in FL that call themselves WFLA while those calls are only on the Tampa station they own. I think their use of KISS-FM is more interesting. The real one is not even owned by Clear Channel. |
Same call sign in different areas?
wrote in message ... AM as far as AM radio is concerned (but not really) is short for Amplitude Modulated.And I did not cheat and look it up first.I don't even cheat on my wife because I was always to chicken to get hitched. UT Ohhhhhh,,,,, here is that frikkin Shelock Holmes again. cuhulin Hams call it Ancient Modulation (;-) |
Same call sign in different areas?
"David" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:19:25 GMT, "David Eduardo" wrote: Most interesting is when stations, like several Clear Channel AMs in FL that call themselves WFLA while those calls are only on the Tampa station they own. I think their use of KISS-FM is more interesting. The real one is not even owned by Clear Channel. They own the service mark and license use to any others. |
Same call sign in different areas?
David ) writes:
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:19:25 GMT, "David Eduardo" wrote: Most interesting is when stations, like several Clear Channel AMs in FL that call themselves WFLA while those calls are only on the Tampa station they own. I think their use of KISS-FM is more interesting. The real one is not even owned by Clear Channel. Is that one of those "made up" callsigns? I don't know how common those are now, but there was a time when they were used a lot. As someone said, they can call themselves whatever they like (kind of like a business name) so long as they do properly identify themselves when needed. So one local fm station used to be "FM96", but then morphed into "The Mix". In Toronto, there is/was "Q107". CBC radio here in Canada simply calls itself "CBC Radio One" (for the AM network, which in the large cities are now on the FM band) and "CBC Radio Two" for the stereo network. Vermont Public Radio only announces call signs when it is required, instead being "VPR" most of the time. I couldn't tell you what the "local" (it's in Burlington or Plattsburgh) FOX tv station's callsign is, since they refer to themselves on a far bigger basis as "FOX 44". It's a marketing too. Once upon a time, stations would try to get specific callsigns, to match their intent or somebody's initials. That's gotten harder, as stations have proliferated. So they come up with some other branding process, that has nothing to do with the legal callsign, but which so many refer to them as, one might think someone is issuing rather odd call signs. Michael |
Same call sign in different areas?
"And per 75.1150, an ID may include the channel number between the
calls and the city of license, so it is, if done this way, part of the legal ID:" BETWEEN??? I thought the call letters had to be followed immediately by the city of origin for it to be a legal id. I see you are referencing FCC rules -- so was this changed recently?? I'm a little out of the loop. Thanks. David Eduardo wrote: "Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "Dan" wrote in message ... "Tester" wrote in message g... Are the call letters KCBS the only example of their kind? KCBS is an Infinity (CBS/Viacom) all newser on 740 kHz KCB S-FM (formerly KNX-FM) and KCBS-TV (formerly KNXT) are in Los Angeles. These are not the same call signs. The TV and FM endings are integral parts of the callsign According to the way the FCC looks at callsigns these are three separate call signs. KCBS is a four letter call sign KCBSFM is a six letter callsign which happens to end in FM KCBSTV is a six letter callsign which happens to end in TV. Bzzt! Sorry, but thanks for playing our game. The correct answer is that there are no 6 letter calls in the US. When the stations with the KCBS call legally identify themselves, it is done as "KCBS [COL]" Legal station ID's do not have the AM/FM/TV suffix, nor even the frequency/channel of operation. That is 100% incorrect. If there are an AM, and FM and a TV with the same first 4 letters of the calls, the license of the FM says "WXXX-FM" and the TV is "WXXX-TV." The legal ID is not legal if "FM" or "TV" are not read (or visualed in TV) are not part of the ID. In fact, many FMs that used to share calls with an AM that later changed to other calls are still "WXXX-FM" even if there is no AM with the same calls. Stations KBPS (AM & FM) are co-located, but not co-owned (one is owned by the KBPS Foundation, the other by Benson Polytechnic High School). Each ID's only as "KBPS, Portland" Then they are doing an illegal ID, as the license of the FM, baring a unique FCC error, is KBPS-FM. The FCC database shows "KBPS-FM" to be the correct calls, too. I looked for a station I know never had an AM, and it shows as "KLVE" alone, without the "-FM" suffix. If it is on the license, it must be said. And per 75.1150, an ID may include the channel number between the calls and the city of license, so it is, if done this way, part of the legal ID: |
Same call sign in different areas?
wrote in message ups.com... "And per 75.1150, an ID may include the channel number between the calls and the city of license, so it is, if done this way, part of the legal ID:" BETWEEN??? I thought the call letters had to be followed immediately by the city of origin for it to be a legal id. I see you are referencing FCC rules -- so was this changed recently?? I'm a little out of the loop. Thanks. 73.1150. My typo. It is on the FCC website, too. You may put the channel number, frequency and / or the licensee in the middle between the Calls and the COL. So, "KSSS, Channel 222, Metroland Broadcasting, Anytown" is a legal ID. "Anytown" can be followed by any other town or towns, irrespective if the signal gets there. "Station Identification. Stations must make identification announcements when they sign on and off for the day. They must also make the announcements hourly, as close to the hour as possible, at a natural programming break. TV stations may make these announcements on- screen or by voice only. Official station identification includes the station's call letters followed by the community or communities specified in its license as the station's location. Between the call letters and its community, the station may insert the name of the licensee, the station's channel number, and/or its frequency. However, we do not allow any other insertion. Station Identification. Stations must make identification announcements when they sign on and off for the day. They must also make the announcements hourly, as close to the hour as possible, at a natural programming break. TV stations may make these announcements on- screen or by voice only. Official station identification includes the station's call letters followed by the community or communities specified in its license as the station's location. Between the call letters and its community, the station may insert the name of the licensee, the station's channel number, and/or its frequency. However, we do not allow any other insertion." This is from The Public and Broadcasting from http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/decdoc/p...adcasting.html |
Same call sign in different areas?
"Michael Black" wrote in message ... It's a marketing too. Once upon a time, stations would try to get specific callsigns, to match their intent or somebody's initials. That's gotten harder, as stations have proliferated. So they come up with some other branding process, that has nothing to do with the legal callsign, but which so many refer to them as, one might think someone is issuing rather odd call signs. When I owned stations in Ecuador, I was not allowed to ID one of them only by calls. I had to use a name. This is why HCJB is "The Voice of the Andes" as one example. In any case, names are more memorable than calls, which are to me an anachronistic device from the 20's and 30's. |
Same call sign in different areas?
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:49:31 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote: "David" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:19:25 GMT, "David Eduardo" wrote: Most interesting is when stations, like several Clear Channel AMs in FL that call themselves WFLA while those calls are only on the Tampa station they own. I think their use of KISS-FM is more interesting. The real one is not even owned by Clear Channel. They own the service mark and license use to any others. http://kissrocks.com/common/hdradio/ |
Same call sign in different areas?
"David" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:49:31 GMT, "David Eduardo" wrote: "David" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:19:25 GMT, "David Eduardo" wrote: Most interesting is when stations, like several Clear Channel AMs in FL that call themselves WFLA while those calls are only on the Tampa station they own. I think their use of KISS-FM is more interesting. The real one is not even owned by Clear Channel. They own the service mark and license use to any others. http://kissrocks.com/common/hdradio/ Yes, that is one of the licensed uses. Just like Kiss in NY, or Kiss in Albuquerque... owned by other companies. |
Same call sign in different areas?
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