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Sony 6800
a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few
have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! |
Sony 6800
here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-ICF-6800W-M...mZ280038452758 one recently went for $500 but it was like new and had and original service manual which usually goes for about $90. the one for $810 had just about NO description "mike maghakian" wrote in message ... a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! |
Sony 6800
Now you know why I can't stand E-screw. Thr phucking collectors have driven
prices out of range of what an average Joe can afford. Rich "mike maghakian" wrote in message ... a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! |
Sony 6800
mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. That said, as a listeners radio the 6800 is really more like the guy we all have known that was a bit slow witted. Eventually the job got done, but it took for ever and he had a tendency to wander around a bit. |
Sony 6800
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Sony 6800
dx(FMLAO)Ace wrote:
And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. ....and a human being can never be worth more than you're willing to say, right? Shame on dxAce! Is this your brother? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G7gq7GQ71c Maim any Mexicans last night? Please check your axe handle for blood stains if you can't remember. mike |
Sony 6800
There are NO Humans in Canada.They are ALL the queens little
''beavers''. cuhulin |
Sony 6800
dxAce wrote:
wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. |
Sony 6800
D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Speaking of Joe, he's donated a guitar to the ARRL auction: http://arrl.auctionanything.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=730405&_ UserReference=D1D0771246B5E233B62B88D839B94540DF1F dxAce Michigan USA |
Sony 6800
D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. |
Sony 6800
wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. |
Sony 6800
dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Speaking of Joe, he's donated a guitar to the ARRL auction: http://arrl.auctionanything.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&Auction_uid1=730405&_ UserReference=D1D0771246B5E233B62B88D839B94540DF1F dxAce Michigan USA Yeah, I saw that. He's a class act, and a gentleman. |
Sony 6800
D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. A well attended auction of real or personal property such as Ebay or a brick and mortar auction will bring together a number of buyers and sellers. They interact to establish sales prices that will certainly vary for a lot of reasons but they represent a range of market prices for the goods in question. The stock market is another example of an auction that works reasonably well. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. As with buyers who hope to buy a radio at pre-internet prices, such sellers do not understand that Ebay brings both sides together and they interact to establish a final price for one item that is realistic at that point. That price will likely not hold tomorrow for a variety of reasons including buyer interest, condition of the new items and number of sellers with the same item. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. It would seem to me that a realistic price is the one that aligns the expectations of buyers and sellers and allows a deal to be completed. An unrealistic price would be one where the seller or the buyer hopes prices will stay fixed and they will be able to deal at yesterday's price. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. |
Sony 6800
D Peter Maus wrote:
By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. What did Joe do with the SX-88? He payed about $10K for it. |
Sony 6800
wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. A well attended auction of real or personal property such as Ebay or a brick and mortar auction will bring together a number of buyers and sellers. They interact to establish sales prices that will certainly vary for a lot of reasons but they represent a range of market prices for the goods in question. The stock market is another example of an auction that works reasonably well. Actually, it's almost never the case that an auction creates a market price. Whether e-Bay or brick and mortar. What an auction does is create a price of the moment, for a particular item, commodity, or recently, a service. But the price established is not a market price that, taking into account fluctuations of local or periodic interest, is a stable or replicable benchmark. Primarily due to the broad and divergant specifics for any given sale. Persons attending an auction of personal properties are there often for personal reasons that have no basis in a market, though they may have influence on a market price. Persons attending an auction for commercial reasons have more convergant priorities, that tend to create less random and extreme influences on prices. Put another way, bidding wars among those attending for personal reasons can get spirited, and end in extreme prices, whereas bidding wars among commercial interests are more cautious, and do not end in prices as extreme. The stock market is a different kind of auction, where the prices are set pursuant almost exclusively to commercial interests, and though prices may vary from moment to moment, they are replicable worldwide, and are not set by overbidding, as can happen in personal auctions. And the key phrase of your point is 'well attended.' A well attended brick and mortar auction is comparatively rare, with most attended in small numbers of divergant interests. Interest in any given item is far from assured. And is dramatically affected by local conditions. Whereas with attendance of larger numbers, e-Bay being the extreme example, interest in the spectrum of items is more uniform, but bidding can be far more extreme on single items. The prices do not apply off e-Bay, or even on e-Bay for similar items. Prices set apply to each auction. But in the main do not apply beyond that auction. On the other hand, the stock market, while very well attended, is less prone to extremes by it's nature, and can set and apply a market price that obtains worldwide. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. As with buyers who hope to buy a radio at pre-internet prices, such sellers do not understand that Ebay brings both sides together and they interact to establish a final price for one item that is realistic at that point. I beg to differ. The price will be determined for that auction, and it will be agreed to by the buyer and seller, but that does not mean it's reasonable. Even buyers who overbid will admit that they paid too much. That price will likely not hold tomorrow for a variety of reasons including buyer interest, condition of the new items and number of sellers with the same item. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. It would seem to me that a realistic price is the one that aligns the expectations of buyers and sellers and allows a deal to be completed. An unrealistic price would be one where the seller or the buyer hopes prices will stay fixed and they will be able to deal at yesterday's price. You're making my point for me. A realistic price would be stable. That's not to say immune to fluctuation, but it would be largely replicable over a wide area, for a period of time. Instantaneous prices may or may not be realistic. But just because the buyer and seller agree doesn't make it a realisic price. It only means that the price was agreed to at that moment on that item. Stratospheric spikes or depressions against a replicable market price are unrealistic. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. |
Sony 6800
D Peter Maus wrote:
I beg to differ. The price will be determined for that auction, and it will be agreed to by the buyer and seller, but that does not mean it's reasonable. For those that do not know photography, there is a company called KEH who sells used cameras. They have an extrememly conservative grading system, never knowlingly sell a camera that does not work 100% unless they say so, have a short no questions asked return privledge and provide a 90 warranty. Often I see items on eBay that have closed 20% HIGHER than KEW's price. Many times it happens on items where if you look at the picture you can easily see that the seller was not honest about the condition. Why anyone would pay as much as KEH's price, or more is a mystery to me, but it happens all the time. I also see cameras with minimums that are well beyond reason. I assume they are so that dealers can take them to shows and when someone questions their price they can honestly say "I sell them on eBay for that". I think it would be reasonable to assume that without any manipulation on the seller's part many items are sold on eBay far beyond "market price". Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/ |
Sony 6800
HFguy wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. What did Joe do with the SX-88? He payed about $10K for it. He apparently owns two of them, s/n's 511 and 517. I've heard that he has about 6 operating positions in his home. dxAce Michigan USA |
Sony 6800
D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. A well attended auction of real or personal property such as Ebay or a brick and mortar auction will bring together a number of buyers and sellers. They interact to establish sales prices that will certainly vary for a lot of reasons but they represent a range of market prices for the goods in question. The stock market is another example of an auction that works reasonably well. Actually, it's almost never the case that an auction creates a market price. Sure it does - the market price for many goods is ever changing. Whether e-Bay or brick and mortar. What an auction does is create a price of the moment, for a particular item, commodity, or recently, a service. But the price established is not a market price that, taking into account fluctuations of local or periodic interest, is a stable or replicable benchmark. Primarily due to the broad and divergant specifics for any given sale. Persons attending an auction of personal properties are there often for personal reasons that have no basis in a market, though they may have influence on a market price. Persons attending an auction for commercial reasons have more convergant priorities, that tend to create less random and extreme influences on prices. Put another way, bidding wars among those attending for personal reasons can get spirited, and end in extreme prices, whereas bidding wars among commercial interests are more cautious, and do not end in prices as extreme. The stock market is a different kind of auction, where the prices are set pursuant almost exclusively to commercial interests, and though prices may vary from moment to moment, they are replicable worldwide, and are not set by overbidding, as can happen in personal auctions. They vary over time as the prices on Ebay for radios, antiques and lawn mowers do. And the key phrase of your point is 'well attended.' A well attended brick and mortar auction is comparatively rare, with most attended in small numbers of divergant interests. Interest in any given item is far from assured. And is dramatically affected by local conditions. Whereas with attendance of larger numbers, e-Bay being the extreme example, interest in the spectrum of items is more uniform, but bidding can be far more extreme on single items. The prices do not apply off e-Bay, or even on e-Bay for similar items. Prices set apply to each auction. But in the main do not apply beyond that auction. On the other hand, the stock market, while very well attended, is less prone to extremes by it's nature, and can set and apply a market price that obtains worldwide. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. As with buyers who hope to buy a radio at pre-internet prices, such sellers do not understand that Ebay brings both sides together and they interact to establish a final price for one item that is realistic at that point. I beg to differ. The price will be determined for that auction, and it will be agreed to by the buyer and seller, but that does not mean it's reasonable. But that is the way of any auction, whether for commodities, interest rate futures, radios on Ebay. Could you possibly imagine a buyer or seller settling and trading at an unreasonable price? You may not like the price, but it did represent the market clearing price for that one deal. Even buyers who overbid will admit that they paid too much. Live and learn... At the time they felt it was a reasonable price. Hindsight can be different. That price will likely not hold tomorrow for a variety of reasons including buyer interest, condition of the new items and number of sellers with the same item. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. It would seem to me that a realistic price is the one that aligns the expectations of buyers and sellers and allows a deal to be completed. An unrealistic price would be one where the seller or the buyer hopes prices will stay fixed and they will be able to deal at yesterday's price. You're making my point for me. A realistic price would be stable. Have you ever seen prices for commodities, derivatives, stocks, gasoline, radios on Ebay that changed sometimes rapidly? I have. That's not to say immune to fluctuation, but it would be largely replicable over a wide area, for a period of time. Instantaneous prices may or may not be realistic. But just because the buyer and seller agree doesn't make it a realisic price. It only means that the price was agreed to at that moment on that item. Stratospheric spikes or depressions against a replicable market price are unrealistic. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. |
Sony 6800
wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. A well attended auction of real or personal property such as Ebay or a brick and mortar auction will bring together a number of buyers and sellers. They interact to establish sales prices that will certainly vary for a lot of reasons but they represent a range of market prices for the goods in question. The stock market is another example of an auction that works reasonably well. Actually, it's almost never the case that an auction creates a market price. Sure it does - the market price for many goods is ever changing. Whether e-Bay or brick and mortar. What an auction does is create a price of the moment, for a particular item, commodity, or recently, a service. But the price established is not a market price that, taking into account fluctuations of local or periodic interest, is a stable or replicable benchmark. Primarily due to the broad and divergant specifics for any given sale. Persons attending an auction of personal properties are there often for personal reasons that have no basis in a market, though they may have influence on a market price. Persons attending an auction for commercial reasons have more convergant priorities, that tend to create less random and extreme influences on prices. Put another way, bidding wars among those attending for personal reasons can get spirited, and end in extreme prices, whereas bidding wars among commercial interests are more cautious, and do not end in prices as extreme. The stock market is a different kind of auction, where the prices are set pursuant almost exclusively to commercial interests, and though prices may vary from moment to moment, they are replicable worldwide, and are not set by overbidding, as can happen in personal auctions. They vary over time as the prices on Ebay for radios, antiques and lawn mowers do. And the key phrase of your point is 'well attended.' A well attended brick and mortar auction is comparatively rare, with most attended in small numbers of divergant interests. Interest in any given item is far from assured. And is dramatically affected by local conditions. Whereas with attendance of larger numbers, e-Bay being the extreme example, interest in the spectrum of items is more uniform, but bidding can be far more extreme on single items. The prices do not apply off e-Bay, or even on e-Bay for similar items. Prices set apply to each auction. But in the main do not apply beyond that auction. On the other hand, the stock market, while very well attended, is less prone to extremes by it's nature, and can set and apply a market price that obtains worldwide. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. As with buyers who hope to buy a radio at pre-internet prices, such sellers do not understand that Ebay brings both sides together and they interact to establish a final price for one item that is realistic at that point. I beg to differ. The price will be determined for that auction, and it will be agreed to by the buyer and seller, but that does not mean it's reasonable. But that is the way of any auction, whether for commodities, interest rate futures, radios on Ebay. Could you possibly imagine a buyer or seller settling and trading at an unreasonable price? You may not like the price, but it did represent the market clearing price for that one deal. Even buyers who overbid will admit that they paid too much. Live and learn... At the time they felt it was a reasonable price. Hindsight can be different. That price will likely not hold tomorrow for a variety of reasons including buyer interest, condition of the new items and number of sellers with the same item. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. It would seem to me that a realistic price is the one that aligns the expectations of buyers and sellers and allows a deal to be completed. An unrealistic price would be one where the seller or the buyer hopes prices will stay fixed and they will be able to deal at yesterday's price. You're making my point for me. A realistic price would be stable. Have you ever seen prices for commodities, derivatives, stocks, gasoline, radios on Ebay that changed sometimes rapidly? I have. That's not to say immune to fluctuation, but it would be largely replicable over a wide area, for a period of time. Instantaneous prices may or may not be realistic. But just because the buyer and seller agree doesn't make it a realisic price. It only means that the price was agreed to at that moment on that item. Stratospheric spikes or depressions against a replicable market price are unrealistic. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. You've missed, or ignored, the point. I've nowhere said anything about prices not varying, but drawn the distinction between the auction and the market. There is an enormous difference. And it has to do with replicability of a price range over a wide area. Auctions only create prices for the moment, between single buyers and single sellers. Not a generally applicable pricing over a market. One may be private between individuals, whereas a market is driven by commercial issues. Two years ago, a solid state ZT/O was bid up to 5 figures on eBay. Prices for that model did not skyrocket. Speculators tried, but the market wasn't having it. Reasonable prices are not determined by individual transactions, but by wide area, cumulative market history. |
Sony 6800
D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. A well attended auction of real or personal property such as Ebay or a brick and mortar auction will bring together a number of buyers and sellers. They interact to establish sales prices that will certainly vary for a lot of reasons but they represent a range of market prices for the goods in question. The stock market is another example of an auction that works reasonably well. Actually, it's almost never the case that an auction creates a market price. Sure it does - the market price for many goods is ever changing. Whether e-Bay or brick and mortar. What an auction does is create a price of the moment, for a particular item, commodity, or recently, a service. But the price established is not a market price that, taking into account fluctuations of local or periodic interest, is a stable or replicable benchmark. Primarily due to the broad and divergant specifics for any given sale. Persons attending an auction of personal properties are there often for personal reasons that have no basis in a market, though they may have influence on a market price. Persons attending an auction for commercial reasons have more convergant priorities, that tend to create less random and extreme influences on prices. Put another way, bidding wars among those attending for personal reasons can get spirited, and end in extreme prices, whereas bidding wars among commercial interests are more cautious, and do not end in prices as extreme. The stock market is a different kind of auction, where the prices are set pursuant almost exclusively to commercial interests, and though prices may vary from moment to moment, they are replicable worldwide, and are not set by overbidding, as can happen in personal auctions. They vary over time as the prices on Ebay for radios, antiques and lawn mowers do. And the key phrase of your point is 'well attended.' A well attended brick and mortar auction is comparatively rare, with most attended in small numbers of divergant interests. Interest in any given item is far from assured. And is dramatically affected by local conditions. Whereas with attendance of larger numbers, e-Bay being the extreme example, interest in the spectrum of items is more uniform, but bidding can be far more extreme on single items. The prices do not apply off e-Bay, or even on e-Bay for similar items. Prices set apply to each auction. But in the main do not apply beyond that auction. On the other hand, the stock market, while very well attended, is less prone to extremes by it's nature, and can set and apply a market price that obtains worldwide. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. As with buyers who hope to buy a radio at pre-internet prices, such sellers do not understand that Ebay brings both sides together and they interact to establish a final price for one item that is realistic at that point. I beg to differ. The price will be determined for that auction, and it will be agreed to by the buyer and seller, but that does not mean it's reasonable. But that is the way of any auction, whether for commodities, interest rate futures, radios on Ebay. Could you possibly imagine a buyer or seller settling and trading at an unreasonable price? You may not like the price, but it did represent the market clearing price for that one deal. Even buyers who overbid will admit that they paid too much. Live and learn... At the time they felt it was a reasonable price. Hindsight can be different. That price will likely not hold tomorrow for a variety of reasons including buyer interest, condition of the new items and number of sellers with the same item. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. It would seem to me that a realistic price is the one that aligns the expectations of buyers and sellers and allows a deal to be completed. An unrealistic price would be one where the seller or the buyer hopes prices will stay fixed and they will be able to deal at yesterday's price. You're making my point for me. A realistic price would be stable. Have you ever seen prices for commodities, derivatives, stocks, gasoline, radios on Ebay that changed sometimes rapidly? I have. That's not to say immune to fluctuation, but it would be largely replicable over a wide area, for a period of time. Instantaneous prices may or may not be realistic. But just because the buyer and seller agree doesn't make it a realisic price. It only means that the price was agreed to at that moment on that item. Stratospheric spikes or depressions against a replicable market price are unrealistic. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. You've missed, or ignored, the point. I've nowhere said anything about prices not varying, but drawn the distinction between the auction and the market. There is an enormous difference. And it has to do with replicability of a price range over a wide area. Auctions only create prices for the moment, between single buyers and single sellers. Not a generally applicable pricing over a market. One may be private between individuals, whereas a market is driven by commercial issues. Two years ago, a solid state ZT/O was bid up to 5 figures on eBay. Prices for that model did not skyrocket. Speculators tried, but the market wasn't having it. Reasonable prices are not determined by individual transactions, but by wide area, cumulative market history. Restating once again, I have yet to find a buyer and seller who at the conclusion of a deal who felt the price was unrealistic. Think about it for a minute. |
Sony 6800
In article .com,
wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. A well attended auction of real or personal property such as Ebay or a brick and mortar auction will bring together a number of buyers and sellers. They interact to establish sales prices that will certainly vary for a lot of reasons but they represent a range of market prices for the goods in question. The stock market is another example of an auction that works reasonably well. That's an interesting observation. Please explain how Ebay conducts a "real" auction. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. As with buyers who hope to buy a radio at pre-internet prices, such sellers do not understand that Ebay brings both sides together and they interact to establish a final price for one item that is realistic at that point. That price will likely not hold tomorrow for a variety of reasons including buyer interest, condition of the new items and number of sellers with the same item. What you are calling the final price is the market price, which is the price agreed on. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. It would seem to me that a realistic price is the one that aligns the expectations of buyers and sellers and allows a deal to be completed. An unrealistic price would be one where the seller or the buyer hopes prices will stay fixed and they will be able to deal at yesterday's price. The seller posts the ask price. The buyer posts the bid price. If the transaction "happens" it "occurs" at the "market price." If the transaction "occurs" one of two things or both must "happen": 1. The seller comes down in price. 2. The buyer goes up in price. At the auction, the seller has stated that he will sell to the highest bid price usually above some minimum stated price. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. Ask, bid and market price is well-established concepts. The argument seems to revolve around what is an actual market in SW radios. If EBay is the place that most (the clear majority) of SW radios are sold, then I would argue that the EBay auction sold price is the market price. If more radios were sold in other venues then it would not be. The situation as I see it is, EBay is a virtual market not a real one where a virtual radio is being sold by a virtual seller and I would be competing against other virtual buyers so I would have to have "faith" that the radio is as described and the other bidders are real and serious about acquiring the radio. This is a very tenuous situation and nothing is properly established as far as I am concerned on EBay much of the time. Moreover, I perceive the used SW radio market as small where a few sellers and buyers can have a big influence on prices. Like Steve Marten said "Let's (all) get small." -- Telamon Ventura, California |
Sony 6800
wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: wrote: D Peter Maus wrote: dxAce wrote: wrote: mike maghakian wrote: a used sony 6800 just went for over $800 on ebay, even though the past few have sold for less than $400. there was nothing special about it ! Wow, thanks for posting that link. Now that is truly astounding. How can Ebay allow such bidding to happen in a public place. Collectors should not be allowed to perpetrate that kind of bidding action and run up the price. It's just terrible to think that Ebay actually allowed the final bidder to pay more for the radio than the next-to-the-last bidder. And when Mike Maghakian bids, the auction should end right then and there. After all, the radio can't possibly be worth more than what he is willing to pay, right? Shame on eBay. dxAce Michigan USA Mike comes by some of his skepticism honestly, though. One of the groups he was involved in was a rather close group of Grundig collectors, some of whom put radios up for time to time. And other members would bid up the price to see to it that legitimate bidders paid their maximum bid. I left the group because of it. That group, as I understand it, is no longer in existence, but watching that kind or activity definitely leaves a bad taste, even for legitimate auctions that reach stratospheric prices. Add to it the noise of Radio-Mart and others who prey on novices to the hobby with their deceptive practices, and....well, you get a pretty jaded view of not only e-Bay but some sellers here on the newsgroup. The real problem with e-Bay is that it tends to attract a very large group of individuals, some with deep resources, with interest in any given product, creating the potential for a bidding war with absurd outcomes. Whereas a local brick and mortar auction draws from a limited pool of interested individuals, most of whom may not be interested in any given product. Prices remain reasonable. Values can be had. By its nature, e-Bay favors the seller, and the house...the very reasons e-Bay exists. No one should be surprised at the nonsense that occurs there. Unfortunately, it's popularity makes it the prime location for the sale of products that we're all interested in. And few of us can outbid Joe Walsh, or any like him, if he should decide he really wants something. Thom Monaghan entered the collector car market and virtually singlehandedly drove most legitimate collectors out of the market by driving up prices. Though that's not really likely to happen with SW radios, a lot of formerly affordable rigs have been priced out of reach by speculators and the antics of Radio-Mart and his kind. Mike's disdain for these goofs is easily understood. What is a "realistic" price for a good...any good at a given point in time. From your comments it must not be the market or auction price. Well, now, that's a really good question. Auction prices are not the same as market prices. And rarely ever have been. Auction prices have always represented extremes. I've gotten prices at brick and mortar auctions of $1 for 4 vintage TRF's, each with a 'market' price of near $200. The same rigs in similar condition have brought twice that and more on e-Bay. A well attended auction of real or personal property such as Ebay or a brick and mortar auction will bring together a number of buyers and sellers. They interact to establish sales prices that will certainly vary for a lot of reasons but they represent a range of market prices for the goods in question. The stock market is another example of an auction that works reasonably well. Actually, it's almost never the case that an auction creates a market price. Sure it does - the market price for many goods is ever changing. Whether e-Bay or brick and mortar. What an auction does is create a price of the moment, for a particular item, commodity, or recently, a service. But the price established is not a market price that, taking into account fluctuations of local or periodic interest, is a stable or replicable benchmark. Primarily due to the broad and divergant specifics for any given sale. Persons attending an auction of personal properties are there often for personal reasons that have no basis in a market, though they may have influence on a market price. Persons attending an auction for commercial reasons have more convergant priorities, that tend to create less random and extreme influences on prices. Put another way, bidding wars among those attending for personal reasons can get spirited, and end in extreme prices, whereas bidding wars among commercial interests are more cautious, and do not end in prices as extreme. The stock market is a different kind of auction, where the prices are set pursuant almost exclusively to commercial interests, and though prices may vary from moment to moment, they are replicable worldwide, and are not set by overbidding, as can happen in personal auctions. They vary over time as the prices on Ebay for radios, antiques and lawn mowers do. And the key phrase of your point is 'well attended.' A well attended brick and mortar auction is comparatively rare, with most attended in small numbers of divergant interests. Interest in any given item is far from assured. And is dramatically affected by local conditions. Whereas with attendance of larger numbers, e-Bay being the extreme example, interest in the spectrum of items is more uniform, but bidding can be far more extreme on single items. The prices do not apply off e-Bay, or even on e-Bay for similar items. Prices set apply to each auction. But in the main do not apply beyond that auction. On the other hand, the stock market, while very well attended, is less prone to extremes by it's nature, and can set and apply a market price that obtains worldwide. I've known antique shop owners who set the prices of their own products at peak e-Bay prices. Such products tend not to move well at brick and mortar stores. Then, again, it's not uncommon for an e-Bay seller to turn loose of a usually high ticket item because of the way the item was presented. As with buyers who hope to buy a radio at pre-internet prices, such sellers do not understand that Ebay brings both sides together and they interact to establish a final price for one item that is realistic at that point. I beg to differ. The price will be determined for that auction, and it will be agreed to by the buyer and seller, but that does not mean it's reasonable. But that is the way of any auction, whether for commodities, interest rate futures, radios on Ebay. Could you possibly imagine a buyer or seller settling and trading at an unreasonable price? You may not like the price, but it did represent the market clearing price for that one deal. Even buyers who overbid will admit that they paid too much. Live and learn... At the time they felt it was a reasonable price. Hindsight can be different. That price will likely not hold tomorrow for a variety of reasons including buyer interest, condition of the new items and number of sellers with the same item. A realistic price for a sw radio is rarely an auction price. Market price will prevail, because it's usually stable. And not subject to the wide variations found at auction. But, personally, I don't think market price is often that realistic. I'm not likely to spend large dollars on sentiment, and the performance of vintage rigs would be easily exceeded by common-as-crabgrass low end pieces for fractions of the price. It would seem to me that a realistic price is the one that aligns the expectations of buyers and sellers and allows a deal to be completed. An unrealistic price would be one where the seller or the buyer hopes prices will stay fixed and they will be able to deal at yesterday's price. You're making my point for me. A realistic price would be stable. Have you ever seen prices for commodities, derivatives, stocks, gasoline, radios on Ebay that changed sometimes rapidly? I have. That's not to say immune to fluctuation, but it would be largely replicable over a wide area, for a period of time. Instantaneous prices may or may not be realistic. But just because the buyer and seller agree doesn't make it a realisic price. It only means that the price was agreed to at that moment on that item. Stratospheric spikes or depressions against a replicable market price are unrealistic. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. You've missed, or ignored, the point. I've nowhere said anything about prices not varying, but drawn the distinction between the auction and the market. There is an enormous difference. And it has to do with replicability of a price range over a wide area. Auctions only create prices for the moment, between single buyers and single sellers. Not a generally applicable pricing over a market. One may be private between individuals, whereas a market is driven by commercial issues. Two years ago, a solid state ZT/O was bid up to 5 figures on eBay. Prices for that model did not skyrocket. Speculators tried, but the market wasn't having it. Reasonable prices are not determined by individual transactions, but by wide area, cumulative market history. Restating once again, I have yet to find a buyer and seller who at the conclusion of a deal who felt the price was unrealistic. Think about it for a minute. And restating once again, I have thought about it. And have encountered countless experiences to the contrary. And there we are. We disagree. Have a good evening. Be seeing you. p |
Sony 6800
That's not to say immune to fluctuation, but it would be largely replicable over a wide area, for a period of time. Instantaneous prices may or may not be realistic. But just because the buyer and seller agree doesn't make it a realisic price. It only means that the price was agreed to at that moment on that item. Stratospheric spikes or depressions against a replicable market price are unrealistic. I"ve spent $100 for higher end Hallicrafters rigs, but that's unusual. And it's after I've beaten the seller back from something absurd. Realistic price? In my room, that's usually something close to the price I'd pay for the same performance in a pocket portable. New radios are a different matter. You've missed, or ignored, the point. I've nowhere said anything about prices not varying, but drawn the distinction between the auction and the market. There is an enormous difference. And it has to do with replicability of a price range over a wide area. Auctions only create prices for the moment, between single buyers and single sellers. Not a generally applicable pricing over a market. One may be private between individuals, whereas a market is driven by commercial issues. Two years ago, a solid state ZT/O was bid up to 5 figures on eBay. Prices for that model did not skyrocket. Speculators tried, but the market wasn't having it. Reasonable prices are not determined by individual transactions, but by wide area, cumulative market history. Restating once again, I have yet to find a buyer and seller who at the conclusion of a deal who felt the price was unrealistic. Think about it for a minute. And restating once again, I have thought about it. And have encountered countless experiences to the contrary. And there we are. We disagree. Have a good evening. Be seeing you. p I've bought and sold a few radios over the past 25 years. Certainly not at the level of some collectors on this forum but enough to be able to say I've spun the dial on a fair range of not new receivers. It's fun to find something like a Sony 5900 for $20.00, National HRO500 for $50.00, Panasonic RF5000 for $40.00, Zenith TO for $10.00, etc. Great pleasure to clean them up and learn the radio's quirks and just make them work. Those and other comparable radios were found unadvertised at estate sales and an occasional antique auction for what I considered attractive prices. At the time the prices were all the seller could have gotten (realistic) because the wider world of radio owners and collectors did not have easy access to local sales like that. The availability of internet based auctions has permanently changed the buyer-saller relationship. Local in-place estate sales are disappearing because estate executors and sales managers have discovered Ebay and the other sites. Brick-and-mortar auctioneers now use internet-based bidding in more than one way. And prices have risen because a wider range of buyers now have instantaneous access to those things they can't live without. Consequently todays prices on Ebay are largely realistic because they reflect the interaction of a much larger population of buyers and sellers. If todays prices for collectible radios are compared to those gotten 15 years ago I would conclude that the prices realized earlier were largely undervalued because of the limited interaction of buyers and sellers. I would love to be able to buy a radio at yesterday's prices, but yesterday has long since passed by. |
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