STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

I was driving on one of Northern Ontario's lonely roads yesterday at
5:30 am. No traffic and all there was to do was plod along and watch
for moose. Moose are road-colored, weigh a ton, and like to stand
invisibly in the middle of the road. It is not good to hit a moose:
they demolish cars, derail trains, and last winter, knocked a Greyhound
bus into the ditch. Being bored, I switched on my AM radio. The radio
stations at that time of night are mostly from the US as many Canadian
stations have migrated to FM. From 530 to 1700, every channel is filled
with something at night, but the clear channel stations are the only
ones useful; I tuned in 760 WJR but got only noise. I tuned in WBBM 780
same thing. Then I went to 770 WABC-clear as a bell. The noise didn't
sound like the usual power-line rasp but it was rather like gently
falling rain.
I knew it couldn't be IBOC interference because promoters on this
very website have assured us that the sidebands were so weak that they
wouldn't bother disant listeners. Well, I have news. They were lying
through their teeth. WCCO 830 Minneapolis took out 820 and 840, 700
WLW Cincinatti took out 690 Montreal and 710, 1180 WHAM took out 1170
and 1190, and 1110 took out 1100 and 1120. These were identified
before morning fade-out. The most irritating point is that the stations
that were obliterated were clear channel stations that one can listen
to in the boonies. Most of the stations were about 600 miles away. If
IBOC grows, they will all be taking out each other and leaving drivers
to sort through 1400 to find a station. However, they are profit
maximizers and hix in the stix don't count in their metro-zone
demographics. Will this be the death of am radio?

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

"ve3..." wrote:

I was driving on one of Northern Ontario's lonely roads yesterday at
5:30 am. No traffic and all there was to do was plod along and watch
for moose. Moose are road-colored, weigh a ton, and like to stand
invisibly in the middle of the road. It is not good to hit a moose:
they demolish cars, derail trains, and last winter, knocked a Greyhound
bus into the ditch. Being bored, I switched on my AM radio. The radio
stations at that time of night are mostly from the US as many Canadian
stations have migrated to FM. From 530 to 1700, every channel is filled
with something at night, but the clear channel stations are the only
ones useful; I tuned in 760 WJR but got only noise. I tuned in WBBM 780
same thing. Then I went to 770 WABC-clear as a bell. The noise didn't
sound like the usual power-line rasp but it was rather like gently
falling rain.
I knew it couldn't be IBOC interference because promoters on this
very website have assured us that the sidebands were so weak that they
wouldn't bother disant listeners. Well, I have news. They were lying
through their teeth. WCCO 830 Minneapolis took out 820 and 840, 700
WLW Cincinatti took out 690 Montreal and 710, 1180 WHAM took out 1170
and 1190, and 1110 took out 1100 and 1120. These were identified
before morning fade-out. The most irritating point is that the stations
that were obliterated were clear channel stations that one can listen
to in the boonies. Most of the stations were about 600 miles away. If
IBOC grows, they will all be taking out each other and leaving drivers
to sort through 1400 to find a station. However, they are profit
maximizers and hix in the stix don't count in their metro-zone
demographics. Will this be the death of am radio?

I wasn't aware that anyone was running IBOC overnight.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

dxAce wrote:
I wasn't aware that anyone was running IBOC overnight.

I was going to say "well, he was listening at 5:30am - and if he was
west of Thunder Bay then he'd have been on Central Time". The numbers
still don't work out for most stations:

Station October "FCC sunrise"
WABC 0500 CST
WCCO 0630 CST
WLW 0645 CST
WHAM 0530 CST
KFAB 0630 CST

(that WLW figure doesn't make sense, I think I made a typo somewhere.
Probably 0545 or 0600.)

So it would have been "daytime" at WABC & WHAM but not at any of the
other stations. I am making the rash assumption the unnamed station on
1110 was KFAB -- maybe it was WBT? (which probably would have indeed
been in "daytime")

We do occasionally observe major stations running IBOC at night. It
must be some kind of FCC-sanctioned test as it happens far too often to
be explained as technical errors at some of the country's
best-engineered stations. Usually that doesn't happen at this many
stations at the same time though.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

News Talk WABC AM is in New York.Eastern Time Zone.I am in the Central
Time Zone.New York is one hour ahead of my Time Zone.I think some of
those other Radio Stations mentioned are too.
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

ve3... wrote:
I was driving on one of Northern Ontario's lonely roads yesterday at
5:30 am. No traffic and all there was to do was plod along and watch

WABC's HD *can't* interfere with reception of WJR and WBBM in Canada,
because you can't get WJR or WBBM (or for that matter, WABC) in Canada.

Well, at least that's the official line. US stations aren't protected
from interference in Canada, and vice-versa.

'Course, if you were driving on the US side of the border - say, between
International Falls and Pembina - you'd have experienced the same thing...

Are there any local AM stations left in Northern Ontario? (grin, kinda)

I was up in Sudbury last fall & 790 was the only local AM left, I did
see (and hear) a French LPRT somewhere between there & Sault Ste. Marie
-- Iron Bridge, I think. IIRC there aren't any AMs in Thunder Bay
anymore, and the ones in Kenora & Fort Frances have both moved to FM.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

We do occasionally observe major stations running IBOC at night. It
must be some kind of FCC-sanctioned test as it happens far too often to
be explained as technical errors at some of the country's
best-engineered stations. Usually that doesn't happen at this many
stations at the same time though.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""""
I was in the Eastern Time zone. It might have been a test as I have
never noticed this interference before. I thought it might have some
connection to the switch from Daylight saving time. All the am stations
you hear in Sault Ste Marie are from the US side although they tend to
be buried by skip. I remember passing through Iron Bridge one day
years ago when it was an am station. They had an antenna strung between
two telephone poles and a kid was doing a remote at the Dairy Queen
from a volkswagon bus using an old Garrard record changer. A real
operation bootstrap. I gave them and A++ for effort. Now that it is a
French staion, I noticed that they have a proper tower on a hill above
the town but the local charm is gone. One thing is for su those
so-called weak little IBOC sidebands completely covered the adjacent
stations.

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

That married Irish woman (she is originally from
Caherconlish,Ireland,about nine miles South (South is always best) out
of Limerick,Ireland.He is originally from Fethard,Ireland.
www.fethard.com I don't think Caherconlish has a website,,, yet,but
y'all can look it up on the enterhernet) I am teaching her how to be a
regular Mississippi Coon Ass.I own a half acre of land in
Interlachen,Putnam County,North Florida.I told her years ago she can
have a chunk of my Florida land for free.She said she just might take me
up on that someday.The offer still stands for her.
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

You are in Canada and you don't know what time zone you are in?
True,sometimes in the mawnings,I may not know what the date is,but I
always know what time zone I am in.
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

Lets me help you out,old boy,girl,Minnie Pearl. www.devilfinder.com
Canadian Time Zones
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

In article om,
ve3... wrote:
....
I knew it couldn't be IBOC interference because promoters on this
very website have assured us that the sidebands were so weak that they
wouldn't bother disant listeners. Well, I have news. They were lying
through their teeth. WCCO 830 Minneapolis took out 820 and 840, 700
WLW Cincinatti took out 690 Montreal and 710, 1180 WHAM took out 1170
and 1190, and 1110 took out 1100 and 1120. These were identified
before morning fade-out.

From the theory stuff I read off the web, the worst IBOC interference
should be on the station 20 kHz away, as the sideband(s) for the primary
digital channel are on 15-25 kHz (on both sides) from the carrier.
Unless the IBOC station had reduced their analog bandwidth and were
using the second channel (which runs from 5-15 kHz, both sides).

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

wrote:
You are in Canada and you don't know what time zone you are in?
True,sometimes in the mawnings,I may not know what the date is,but I
always know what time zone I am in.
cuhulin
"''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''
Of course I know what time zone I'm in. It's the readers who didn't
know what time zone I'm in. Some are sufficiently informed that they
know that Ontario spans both the Eastern and Central time zones. Since
most of the Ontario people live in the Eastern time zone the matter
rarely comes up but they are quite correct to enquire. The further
north you go, the shorter the days and the earlier the sunset.
Incidentally, I was driving around at 6:00 pm tonight and there was
not a trace of IBOC hash. Sunday night was the first and only time I
have ever heard it I noticed a full moon, we just finished
Halloween, and all the witches have been casting spells like crazy.
Could it be that IBOC is a creation of Satan? Just asking.

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

Some people go crazy (Well,they are crazy anyway) in America on
Halloween.Hallowen articles at www.drudgereport.com
I have to watch Trees Company Too on Telebision now.
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

"ve3..." wrote:

wrote:
You are in Canada and you don't know what time zone you are in?
True,sometimes in the mawnings,I may not know what the date is,but I
always know what time zone I am in.
cuhulin
"''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''
Of course I know what time zone I'm in. It's the readers who didn't
know what time zone I'm in. Some are sufficiently informed that they
know that Ontario spans both the Eastern and Central time zones. Since
most of the Ontario people live in the Eastern time zone the matter
rarely comes up but they are quite correct to enquire. The further
north you go, the shorter the days and the earlier the sunset.
Incidentally, I was driving around at 6:00 pm tonight and there was
not a trace of IBOC hash. Sunday night was the first and only time I
have ever heard it I noticed a full moon, we just finished
Halloween, and all the witches have been casting spells like crazy.

The full moon doesn't occur until the 5th.


Could it be that IBOC is a creation of Satan?

Well, then it and CanaDuh would share something in common.

Just asking.

Thanks for asking.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

I know WHA on 970 KHz runs IBOC up to an hour after sunset and starts up
about an hour before sunrise.

I had read somewhere that this is authorized for stations under certain
circumstances which I do not recall.

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
dxAce wrote:
I wasn't aware that anyone was running IBOC overnight.

I was going to say "well, he was listening at 5:30am - and if he was
west of Thunder Bay then he'd have been on Central Time". The numbers
still don't work out for most stations:

Station October "FCC sunrise"
WABC 0500 CST
WCCO 0630 CST
WLW 0645 CST
WHAM 0530 CST
KFAB 0630 CST

(that WLW figure doesn't make sense, I think I made a typo somewhere.
Probably 0545 or 0600.)

So it would have been "daytime" at WABC & WHAM but not at any of the
other stations. I am making the rash assumption the unnamed station on
1110 was KFAB -- maybe it was WBT? (which probably would have indeed
been in "daytime")

We do occasionally observe major stations running IBOC at night. It
must be some kind of FCC-sanctioned test as it happens far too often to
be explained as technical errors at some of the country's
best-engineered stations. Usually that doesn't happen at this many
stations at the same time though.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

Halloween,,,,,, Halloween,,,, Fun,Fun,Fun,,,,, Pull down your britches
and Run,Run,Run,,,,,
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

"Mark Zenier" wrote in message
...

From the theory stuff I read off the web, the worst IBOC interference
should be on the station 20 kHz away, as the sideband(s) for the primary
digital channel are on 15-25 kHz (on both sides) from the carrier.
Unless the IBOC station had reduced their analog bandwidth and were
using the second channel (which runs from 5-15 kHz, both sides).

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)


As far as I know, all the IBOC stations have a maximum audio bandwidth of 5
kHz. 8 kHz AM audio bandwidth is supposed to be an option, but that
degrades the IBOC performance.

Frank Dresser

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

Brenda Ann wrote:

"ve3..." wrote in message
ups.com...
I noticed a full moon, we just finished
Halloween, and all the witches have been casting spells like crazy.
Could it be that IBOC is a creation of Satan? Just asking.


Either a creation of Lucifer himself or one of his higher placed minions.


Very good. That wasn't a guess, was it?

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/spe.../mi7182002.htm





mike

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"Mark Zenier" wrote in message
...

From the theory stuff I read off the web, the worst IBOC interference
should be on the station 20 kHz away, as the sideband(s) for the primary
digital channel are on 15-25 kHz (on both sides) from the carrier.
Unless the IBOC station had reduced their analog bandwidth and were
using the second channel (which runs from 5-15 kHz, both sides).

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)


As far as I know, all the IBOC stations have a maximum audio bandwidth of 5
kHz. 8 kHz AM audio bandwidth is supposed to be an option, but that
degrades the IBOC performance.

All I know is trying to listen to weak station the next channel over
(10KHz) either way is impossible.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

But what are you hearing on that weak station? Certainly nothing that I
do not know already.I gave up dxining years ago.I only dx them crazy
wimmins all over (via the enternets) the World nowdays.I am doin better
than you are.
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

wrote:
But what are you hearing on that weak station? Certainly nothing that I
do not know already.I gave up dxining years ago.
.
cuhulin
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""
You don't understand. When you are driving around in the boonies in the
North there are no local stations to listen to. You can drive miles and
never see another car. There are more moose than people. At night all
the channels are filled with US stations with strong signals from the
clear channels. To add insult to injury, the few Canadian stations that
can be heard are covered up by the skip and if IBOC spreads the
sidebands will block them as well:. In the daytime, short wave
provides good signals. Just imagine tuning from 530khz to 1700 khz and
hearing nothing but hiss. This is the price you willingly pay to live
far away from cities. I think many city-dwellers would like to live in
the country if they could figure out a way to do it.

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

m II wrote:


http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/spe.../mi7182002.htm


mike
"''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''
I read the 2002 speech and noted that she had missed her deadlines. I
recall going to Expo 67 and visiting the French pavilion. I was shocked
when I saw the clarity of French television compared to our crappy
picture. I think they used about 800+ lines. We have had 60 years of
crappy tv picture and now the programming is getting pathetic. If they
don't improve the content, nobody will but the thing. We still watch
Magnum PI reruns and admire the writing, acting, and production values.
But with their drive to profit maximization, corporations don't want to
pay for quality or serve people outside the urban demographic zone.

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

I am still doteing on buying meself (and Blueberry doggy,sometimes she
watches tv for a few minutes) a Lyngsat satellite dish.
www.lyngsat.com No monthly fees with Lyngsat.Lots of American and
furrin tv stations and radio stations too.

Yeah,living wayyyyy out in the sticks beats living in the cities all
hollow.
Somebody ought to invent and put on the market a device which instantly
translates them furrin movies furrin languages on tv into the English
language.Just think what a boon to tv movie viewers that would be.No
more looking/reading them subtitles to know what them furriners are
saying.
cuhulin

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

Brenda Ann wrote:

Either a creation of Lucifer himself or one of his higher placed minions.

I know!! It was George W. Bush who invented IBOC!!

Kick his ass!!! ;)

steph

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

In article .com,
"Stephanie Weil" wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:

Either a creation of Lucifer himself or one of his higher placed minions.

I know!! It was George W. Bush who invented IBOC!!

Kick his ass!!! ;)

Very funny but W is not an engineer.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

Telamon wrote:
In article .com,
"Stephanie Weil" wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:

Either a creation of Lucifer himself or one of his higher placed minions.
I know!! It was George W. Bush who invented IBOC!!

Kick his ass!!! ;)

Very funny but W is not an engineer.


Heck, he isn't even HUMAN!




mike

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

Telamon wrote:
In article .com,
"Stephanie Weil" wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:

Either a creation of Lucifer himself or one of his higher placed minions.
I know!! It was George W. Bush who invented IBOC!!

Kick his ass!!! ;)

Very funny but W is not an engineer.

That what the military and the Iraqis say every day!

JB

STIX HIX NIX IBOC
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

All I know is trying to listen to weak station the next channel over
(10KHz) either way is impossible.


I don't doubt it, but I don't try to daytime DX near IBOC stations. Mark's
information is consistant with my observations from the early days of IBOC,
when IBOC was commonly used at night and there was a hole between the AM
channel and each of the IBOC sidebands in which a first adjacent might punch
through the interference.

Frank Dresser