Balun vs. Unun
 

When using balanced antennas such as loops, dipoles, etc. a voltage
balun can be used, however, great detail should be paid to the symmetry
of the antenna and even one leg of a dipole being nearer a metal
building, trees, etc. can effect that symmetry.

When using unbalanced antennas end fed, long wire, monopole, etc. a unun
is better used and will even eliminate most common mode currents.

I think most here really want the Unun ...

Regards,
JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:30:37 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

When using balanced antennas such as loops, dipoles, etc. a voltage
balun can be used, however, great detail should be paid to the symmetry
of the antenna and even one leg of a dipole being nearer a metal
building, trees, etc. can effect that symmetry.

When using unbalanced antennas end fed, long wire, monopole, etc. a unun
is better used and will even eliminate most common mode currents.

I think most here really want the Unun ...

Regards,
JS

Autotransformer

Balun vs. Unun
 

David wrote:
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:30:37 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

When using balanced antennas such as loops, dipoles, etc. a voltage
balun can be used, however, great detail should be paid to the symmetry
of the antenna and even one leg of a dipole being nearer a metal
building, trees, etc. can effect that symmetry.

When using unbalanced antennas end fed, long wire, monopole, etc. a unun
is better used and will even eliminate most common mode currents.

I think most here really want the Unun ...

Regards,
JS

Autotransformer

No. Quite a bit of difference between a true autotransformer and a
current balun/unun. The obvious physical difference is one
(autotransformer) has a single layer winding, the other a bifilar,
trifilar, or quadfilar winding.

JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

JS - Yes and a UnUn Good Night ~ RHF

Merry Christ John Boy {The Waltons}

Balun vs. Unun
 

RHF wrote:
JS - Yes and a UnUn Good Night ~ RHF

Merry Christ John Boy {The Waltons}
.
.
. .

On Dec 24, 8:30 am, John Smith wrote:
When using balanced antennas such as loops, dipoles, etc. a voltage
balun can be used, however, great detail should be paid to the symmetry
of the antenna and even one leg of a dipole being nearer a metal
building, trees, etc. can effect that symmetry.

When using unbalanced antennas end fed, long wire, monopole, etc. a unun
is better used and will even eliminate most common mode currents.

I think most here really want the Unun ...

Regards,
JS


MERRY XMAS RHF!!! hearty wave

Warmest regards,
JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

John Smith wrote:
When using balanced antennas such as loops, dipoles, etc. a voltage
balun can be used, however, great detail should be paid to the symmetry
of the antenna and even one leg of a dipole being nearer a metal
building, trees, etc. can effect that symmetry.

When using unbalanced antennas end fed, long wire, monopole, etc. a unun
is better used and will even eliminate most common mode currents.

I think most here really want the Unun ...

Regards,
JS


I like ununs on my hamburger.

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

When using balanced antennas such as loops, dipoles, etc. a voltage
balun can be used, however, great detail should be paid to the
symmetry of the antenna and even one leg of a dipole being nearer a
metal building, trees, etc. can effect that symmetry.

You are better off with a current BALUN type. They have a wider, flatter
response and are usually more efficient.

When using unbalanced antennas end fed, long wire, monopole, etc. a
unun is better used and will even eliminate most common mode
currents.

Well, I think you mean noise currents. The signals the single element
antenna picks up are also common mode.

Here the voltage type UNUN has the advantage of DC isolation between the
receiver and antenna where it can direct static voltage potential to
ground. With a receiver plugged into the mains AC supply noise from that
system can conduct on the outside of the coax or the coax itself can
pick it up if it goes by a noise source. Once it reached the antenna
connection it can couple to the antenna. The two circuits of the voltage
transformer can be independently grounded so that the antenna RF ground
is not the same as the coax ground where the mains noise is going.

Single wire element antennas (random wire, long wire) are a Marconi type
where the other half of the antenna is ground. If you only have one
ground then RF ground for the antenna is also a noise current ground
where they can mix.

The mode these antennas pick up signals is common mode so the antenna
needs to be in a RF quiet environment or you are wasting your time. This
usually means you need to be living in a semi-rural to rural area or you
cannot get the antenna far enough away from your house or your
neighbors. I live in an urban environment and a Marconi antenna picks up
way too much noise to work well.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Balun vs. Unun
 

Telamon wrote:
...
Well, I think you mean noise currents. The signals the single element
antenna picks up are also common mode.

Here the voltage type UNUN has the advantage of DC isolation between the
...

Balun = "BALanced-to-UNbalanced"

Unun = "UNbalanced-to-UNbalanced"

What type of antenna you are feed AND what type of feed your
rcvr/xmitter expects SOLELY determines if you should use a balun or a
unun ...

Regards,
JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 23:48:08 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...
Well, I think you mean noise currents. The signals the single element
antenna picks up are also common mode.

Here the voltage type UNUN has the advantage of DC isolation between the
...

Balun = "BALanced-to-UNbalanced"

Unun = "UNbalanced-to-UNbalanced"

What type of antenna you are feed AND what type of feed your
rcvr/xmitter expects SOLELY determines if you should use a balun or a
unun ...

Regards,
JS
Semantics.

Balun vs. Unun
 

David wrote:
...
Semantics.

Naaa. You can call the damn things anything you wish. It is only if
you expect to be able to achieve maximum performance that you need to
know the correct terms, use the correct devices, etc.

JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...
Well, I think you mean noise currents. The signals the single element
antenna picks up are also common mode.

Here the voltage type UNUN has the advantage of DC isolation between the
...

Balun = "BALanced-to-UNbalanced"

Unun = "UNbalanced-to-UNbalanced"

What type of antenna you are feed AND what type of feed your
rcvr/xmitter expects SOLELY determines if you should use a balun or a
unun ...


That's the conventional terminology. I capitalize to make the acronym
obvious.

Five reasons I can think of to use some type of transformer.

1. Impedance transformation.

2. Matching a balanced or unbalanced antenna to the same for the feed
line used.

3. DC static electricity isolation.

4. Isolate RF ground from AC mains ground.

5. Decouple the antenna feed from the antenna so the feed does not act
as part of the antenna.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Balun vs. Unun
 

John Smith wrote:
Telamon wrote:
...

This is where it is necessary to implement the "KISS Rule", one device
is usually used to do most if not all that.

However, one can feel important by over-complicating things ...

JS

Or learning disabled, as in your case................

Balun vs. Unun
 

Telamon wrote:
...

This is where it is necessary to implement the "KISS Rule", one device
is usually used to do most if not all that.

However, one can feel important by over-complicating things ...

JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

John Smith wrote:
H. State wrote:
...

Hey, does your mom know you are using her computer?

JS

She's dead, maybe I'll go visit her grave and mention it to her.

You my friend, are a retard!

Balun vs. Unun
 

John Smith wrote:
H. State wrote:
...

That's ok, you are not the only 12 year old mind trapped in an older
body. Stiff upper lip, cheerio OM!

JS

Cheerio? Limey eh?

Pip, pip, old chap! Stiff upper lip and all that.................:-)

Balun vs. Unun
 

H. State wrote:
...

Hey, does your mom know you are using her computer?

JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

H. State wrote:
...

That's ok, you are not the only 12 year old mind trapped in an older
body. Stiff upper lip, cheerio OM!

JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

John Smith wrote:
H. State wrote:
...
Cheerio? Limey eh?

Pip, pip, old chap! Stiff upper lip and all that.................:-)


Actually, central valley calif, at the present time.

JS

Legally?.............:-)

I lived in Santa Maria for many years.

Balun vs. Unun
 

On Dec 26, 7:06 am, David wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 23:48:08 -0800, John Smith





wrote:
Telamon wrote:
...
Well, I think you mean noise currents. The signals the single element
antenna picks up are also common mode.

Here the voltage type UNUN has the advantage of DC isolation between the
...

Balun = "BALanced-to-UNbalanced"

Unun = "UNbalanced-to-UNbalanced"

What type of antenna you are feed AND what type of feed your
rcvr/xmitter expects SOLELY determines if you should use a balun or a
unun ...

Regards,
JS

David - What you call "Semantics."
in a Technical Field like Electronics
are Words-that-Have-Meanings and
are used to Communcate Effectively .

i hope that we are communicating . . .
semantically speaking that is ~ RHF

Balun vs. Unun
 

On Dec 26, 10:42 am, Telamon
wrote:
In article ,
John Smith wrote:





Telamon wrote:
...
Well, I think you mean noise currents. The signals the single element
antenna picks up are also common mode.

Here the voltage type UNUN has the advantage of DC isolation between the
...

Balun = "BALanced-to-UNbalanced"

Unun = "UNbalanced-to-UNbalanced"

What type of antenna you are feed AND what type of feed your
rcvr/xmitter expects SOLELY determines if you should use a balun or a
unun ...That's the conventional terminology. I capitalize to make the acronym
obvious.

Five reasons I can think of to use some type of transformer.

1. Impedance transformation.

2. Matching a balanced or unbalanced antenna to the same for the feed
line used.

3. DC static electricity isolation.

4. Isolate RF ground from AC mains ground.

5. Decouple the antenna feed from the antenna so the feed does not act
as part of the antenna.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon - Well Reasoned ~ RHF

Balun vs. Unun
 

John Smith wrote:
H. State wrote:
...
Cheerio? Limey eh?

Pip, pip, old chap! Stiff upper lip and all that.................:-)


Actually, central valley calif, at the present time.

JS

Legally?........:-)

I live in Santa Maria many years ago, until the money grabbers from
Southern Cal. moved in.

Balun vs. Unun
 

H. State wrote:
...
Cheerio? Limey eh?

Pip, pip, old chap! Stiff upper lip and all that.................:-)


Actually, central valley calif, at the present time.

JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

Telamon wrote:


reasons I can think of to use some type of transformer.


3. DC static electricity isolation.

I would respectfully submit that static electricity is -NOT- DC

Balun vs. Unun
 

On Dec 26, 11:10 am, John Smith wrote:
Telamon wrote: ...

This is where it is necessary to implement the "KISS Rule", one device
is usually used to do most if not all that.

- However, one can feel important by over-complicating things ...
-
- JS

ego - 'i' am very very very important ~ RHF

Balun vs. Unun
 

RHF wrote:
...

Over-complication is usually an indication ...

JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

On Dec 27, 9:12 pm, John Smith I wrote:
Telamon wrote:

I don't understand what you mean by over complicating things.Telamon:

There is little error in your statements, I did not disagree with any of
it really.


JS,

- Most here need an unun as opposed to a balun.

-R- Un+Un for a 'single' element Longwire {Random Wire} Antenna.

-R- Bal+Un for a 'Two' element Dipole {Balance type} Antenna.

-=R=- And then there is . . . The Magical "MLB"
{ The Miracle in a Black Box }
MIRACLE = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle
BLACK BOX = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Box
- - - Not to be confused with "The Black Stone of Kaaba" {Mecca}
KAABA = http://www.crystalinks.com/blackstone.html
Which relates to Shortwave Listening (SWL) via VOA-News
VOA NEWS = http://www.voanews.com/english/
One of Today's HeadLines reads :
"Muslim Pilgrimage to Mecca Gets Under Way"
-by- Amin Fekrat - Washington - 27 December 2006
http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-12-27-voa47.cfm
The annual season of Hajj is now under way. Every Muslim
who is financially capable is required by the Koran, the Holy
Muslim Scripture, to make the Pilgrimage to Mecca at the
annual season of Hajj at least Once-in-the-Lifetime.

- - - Now Back To The Reply - - -

- The unun, properly constructed will take care of
most of what you stated.

-R- That is true.

- I simply meant most here are die hard or even casual
SW listeners,

-R- That is true. We are happy 'to be' what we are.

- they are not amateur radio operators.

-R- Alas that is true. But again : We are happy 'to be' what we are.

- If someone asks or shows an interest, I like to discuss
the technical details with them,

-R- Sounds Reasonable.

- let the others buy/make the device
- and go on about their hobby.

-R- A splendid Idea.

- I was simply pointing out that most probably
- just view the unun as a black box,

-R- Sometimes it see it as a few pieces of PVC
Pipe that are all glued together with a Connector
and Wire Thingy coming out of it. ;-}

- and are not interested in the technical details
- and easily confused by technical details they
- are uninterested in.

-R- Hey - You Got That Right ! - But Once Again :
We Are Happy "To Be' What We Are [.]


just your basic 'practical-minded' shortwave listener (swl)
- - - who enjoys listening to his radios ~ RHF

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article ,
John Smith I wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...

You didn't answer the question why are posting from an open server.

Well how about it?


That is a fair question, I will give you an honest answer from my
perspective.

1) I have NEVER met a group of people so phobic, petty, paranoid,
self-centered, abnormal, self-worshiping, big-headed, pig-headed, etc.,
etc. as amateur operators--and I post a LOT in those groups--and some
read this group.

2) What I have to say can stand on its' own merits. It is either true,
false, possible or impossible, or, simply an opinion of mine--who I am
should have NOTHING to do with what I say.

3) Some are just here to get into personal attacks and find personality
disagreements--I have little-to-no time for this.

4) The people I work for might not like me being as free, honest and
NON-politically correct as I am here.

5) etc.

6) etc.

Now, any more questions? Do you understand my answer(s)? And, I am NOT
asking you to agree with my reasons, my reasons are my own ...

The need to protect your identity could be a good reason to use an open
server. I can't agree with #2 however. I don't want to pay attention too
people that are operating from a sphere of disillusionment and deceit. I
pay attention to peoples behavior along with what they preach for
example and if it doesn't jive I ignore them. Unfortunately all some
people do is lie.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Balun vs. Unun
 

John Smith I wrote:



1) I have NEVER met a group of people so phobic, petty, paranoid,
self-centered, abnormal, self-worshiping, big-headed, pig-headed, etc.,
etc. as amateur operators--


LOL! You need to hang around broadcasters....

Balun vs. Unun
 

RHF wrote:
...
-=R=- And then there is . . . The Magical "MLB"
...

RHF:

For all practical purposes, the MLB (Magnetic Longwire Balun) is an
Unun. I looked back though my posts and thought I had made reference
too that, I didn't!

On my SW in the living room, I have an old ferrite rod from an am radio
wound as a Unun/MLB. I have tried complex, multi-core, Unun's and
although they work very well, the MLB crafted from a junk rod and wire
shows little difference ...

And, remember, not ALL hams are bad, take themselves too seriously, or
think their ticket is the equiv. of a doctorate degree.

I am still just a boy with a sw receiver ...

Warmest regards,
JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article ,
John Smith I wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...
group because you are a know Troll is my guess.


I don't have to guess, it is plainly apparent from your previous posts,
anyone not agreeing with you is a troll. You know the real trolls when
you see 'em, enough have bitten you on the A$$ already ...


Trolling idiot my post is over a week old. Better late than never.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article
,
Telamon wrote:

In article ,
John Smith I wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...
group because you are a know Troll is my guess.


I don't have to guess, it is plainly apparent from your previous posts,
anyone not agreeing with you is a troll. You know the real trolls when
you see 'em, enough have bitten you on the A$$ already ...


Trolling idiot my post is over a week old. Better late than never.

Oh I see yours is also dated. OK my news server is a piece of crap since
SBC took it over.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Balun vs. Unun
 

Telamon wrote:
...

Telamon:

You already have defamed yourself, made yourself to appear as a complete
and absolute idiot ...

.... please, do no more, you have more than made believers out of us ...

Regards,
JS

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article ,
John Smith I wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...

Telamon:

You already have defamed yourself, made yourself to appear as a complete
and absolute idiot ...

... please, do no more, you have more than made believers out of us ...

Oh yeah, like you have the good reputation here. Everyone calls you a
complete idiot in the threads you have been in so I would not talk. News
servers screw up once in while serving up old posts.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article ,
John Smith I wrote:

I don't have to guess, it is plainly apparent from your previous posts,
anyone not agreeing with you is a troll. You know the real trolls when
you see 'em, enough have bitten you on the A$$ already ...

Telamon wrote:

Trolling idiot my post is over a week old. Better late than never.

So it's over a week old...so what?

Are you implying that they couldn't have been out of town for the
holidays, lost ISP service, lost power, had a broken computer,
whatever???? How *dare* they not answer the "great" telamon immediately!

Again, and in all sincerity, you seem to be so far up on your "high
horse" that you lose touch with reality...

Balun vs. Unun
 

In article .com,
"RHF" wrote:

On Jan 3, 7:48 pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
John Smith I wrote:

Telamon wrote:
...
group because you are a know Troll is my guess.

I don't have to guess, it is plainly apparent from your previous posts,
anyone not agreeing with you is a troll. You know the real trolls when
you see 'em, enough have bitten you on the A$$ already ...

Trolling idiot my post is over a week old. Better late than never.Oh I
see yours is also dated. OK my news server is a piece of crap since
- SBC took it over.

"SBC" ~ Stupid Brainless Corporation

You got that right.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California